Following controversy, all names will be left off Canadian monument to ‘victims of communism’

10 months ago by gmtom to c/world

More than half the names originally planned to be inscribed on the Ottawa monument have been linked to Nazis
mrdown 132 points 10 months ago

I would like yo see one for victims of capitalism

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FordBeeblebrox 52 points 10 months ago

👍

I’ve had this thing hanging out for years and NOTHING. If you humans could stop bashing each other with sticks and screaming at each other about bathrooms long enough to build a proper ship to go out and socialize, we can find more civilized planets and just do drugs and laugh and laugh about stupid little green pieces of paper.

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undergroundoverground 37 points 10 months ago

Tbf, i dont think they could name all of the African American slaves or the millions killed in the DRC.

You know the drill: Ukrainian starvation genocide = crime of communism.

When the Turkish capitalist empire does the same to Armenians, that's just one of those things. Feels kinds commie though.

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chaogomu 22 points 10 months ago

I never count the many crimes of Lenin, Stalin, and Mao as crimes of communism. Because Lenin betrayed the revolution and had the actual communists arrested so that he could cement his totalitarian dictatorship.

He lost the November 1917 election, and threw a hissy fit that caused a civil war.

Which started a long line of dictators pretending to be communists, pretending that communism requires a dictatorship.

If the State owns everything, and has police that will kill you for speaking out, then you don't live under communism, you live under feudalism in a coat of red paint.

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arrow74 12 points 10 months ago

You have been banned from .ml

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chaogomu 12 points 10 months ago

Actually... Yes, but only for saying that Julian Assange isn't a hero to be worshiped.

He had a good idea, but his ties to Russia taint everything.

Per the fact that he's repeatedly turned down leaks critical of Russia.

There's a certain type of person who strongly believes in binaries. They rightly see that the US is shit, and somehow believe that makes anyone who "stands up to the US" automatically good.

It's half of the Tankie mentality. The other half is actively cheering for dictators and the murder of "non-conformists", whatever shape they take.

On a final note, https://ddosecrets.com/ is what WikiLeaks looks like with protections for innocents mentioned in the leaks.

WikiLeaks has such a policy, but have leaked names of activists and whistleblowers several times now.

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mrdown 2 points 10 months ago

I never count the many crimes of Lenin, Stalin, and Mao as crimes of communism. Because Lenin betrayed the revolution and had the actual communists arrested so that he could cement his totalitarian dictatorship.

Capitalist countries killed as much so both system killed millions of people

If the State owns everything, and has police that will kill you for speaking out, then you don't live under communism, you live under feudalism in a coat of red paint.

I would say that's ultranationalism

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AmidFuror 12 points 10 months ago path: 0 21097908 21098479 21098760, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0
hayvan 3 points 10 months ago

Dude did you just seriously call Ottoman Empire capitalist?

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undergroundoverground 9 points 10 months ago

They had private enterprise. So, In what way were they not capitalist? Imperial colonial economies are capitalist, by nature.

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mrdown 1 point 10 months ago

The ottoman empire is 600 years old it experience both systems

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Catoblepas 5 points 10 months ago

What is mercantilism but proto-capitalism?

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mrdown 3 points 10 months ago

Maybe instead of people, naming the major massacres

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ameancow 30 points 10 months ago
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optissima 19 points 10 months ago

You can even cut costs by installing a mirror

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Witchfire 13 points 10 months ago

Skid row

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flandish 9 points 10 months ago

star dot star

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frongt 8 points 10 months ago

That only includes people with a dot in their name.

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FilthyHands 5 points 10 months ago

Will.i .am is a bastard

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Fleur_ 8 points 10 months ago

Visit a graveyard

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Rhoeri -24 points 10 months ago

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grte 46 points 10 months ago

Also, Stephen Harper, the prime minister responsible for this thing, said it would be paid entirely with private donations. Well, that was a lie, so now tax dollars are funding the thing. Which means some of my money went to this horseshit.

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frongt 23 points 10 months ago

Don't worry! A good portion is still private:

Organisations which are known to have been founded by and/or are apologists for Nazi collaborators and war criminals also committed substantial funding.

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join 35 points 10 months ago

The symbolism is hilarious.

Bunch of mouth-foaming rightwing ideologues spending all their political capital on a monument directly implying that there are no victims of communism.

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T00l_shed 28 points 10 months ago

Should be victims of authoritarianism

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AmidFuror 12 points 10 months ago

If you visit Eastern Europe, you'll find a lot of museums which reflect on the double disaster of Nazi occupation for years followed by Communist occupation for decades.

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ameancow 2 points 10 months ago
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FaceDeer 1 point 10 months ago

Those Eastern European countries faced the ultimate rock-and-a-hard-place situation; side with the Nazis, side with Stalin, or get crushed by both (and whichever one you "sided" with wouldn't treat you particularly well either). And they had to pick sides without knowing what the judgment of history would be.

Honestly, a rare situation where some Nazi collaborators deserve an "it was complicated" footnote, IMO. Though that's a bit much to ask for on a stone monument like this.

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grte 14 points 10 months ago path: 0 21097723 21098792 21098966 21099908, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 3
FaceDeer -4 points 10 months ago

Re-quoting from my comment:

And they had to pick sides without knowing what the judgment of history would be.

Emphasis added. They were making the choice without the benefit of that Wikipedia page from 2025 to refer to.

And Stalin was right up there with Hitler in terms of total kill-count, which is why it was a rock-and-a-hard-place situation. There was no good option available.

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bjoern_tantau 3 points 10 months ago

I recently read my German grandma's memoirs. During the war she signed up to help in Nazi occupied Minsk. Of course for the Nazis "help" meant ensuring the local newspaper printed propaganda. And beforehand they were instructed to be harsh with the "dumb Russians".

She once got into trouble because one serial story in the newspaper tended towards a revolutionary message. Apparently the translator didn't care for the story so he stopped reading it and just let it get printed as he received it. At least that was his official excuse.

Anyways, of course she grew closer to some of the locals. And of course not every single one of them could help with sabotaging the occupiers. So it was extra sad when she eventually had to flee from the approaching Russian army (a day after the officers loudly proclaimed at a Nazi party that they were about to win the war) and had to live with the knowledge that the Russian's she left behind were all likely to be executed as collaborators.

She couldn't take them with her because the Nazis would likely kill them for being Russian. Or at the very least put them into concentration camps. And she already knew they were bad, just not how bad.

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FaceDeer 3 points 10 months ago

My dad had a Latvian friend in his youth, and dad would tell me about how sometimes when they'd had a bit much to drink he'd tell stories about fighting on the front lines in Latvia. For the Germans, against the Russians. He was by absolutely no means a Nazi supporter, but he had to weigh the options and try to figure out which one was less likely to end with him and his family lying dead in a ditch somewhere.

It really sucks that Latvia didn't regain independence until 1991. I hope he lived long enough to see that.

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CanadaPlus 3 points 10 months ago

Yes, especially now that an actual war is making the case for non-Russian nationalism in eastern Europe. Historically that's where the support and funding has come from for victims of communism stuff, IIRC.

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roguetrick 26 points 10 months ago

The General Committee of United Croats of Canada dedicated its contribution to Ante Pavelić, who led the Nazi puppet regime in occupied Croatia in the former Yugoslavia, where around 32,000 Jews, 25,000 Roma and 330,000 Serbs were murdered by the regime. The same organisation purchased a brick dedicated to Mile Budak, a high-ranking official in Croatia’s fascist Ustaše organisation, whom it identified simply as a poet.

Of course it was anti Yugoslavia Balkan bullshit. Chetniks(if you're a Serb expat) and Ustaše(if you're a croat expat) did nothing wrong if your ideology must delegitimize the idea of a multicultural Yugoslav state.

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Pyr_Pressure 20 points 10 months ago

Why do we have monuments for victims of communism and not monuments for victims of capitalism?

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AmidFuror -31 points 10 months ago

Because capitalism is the normal order of things going back for millennia.

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fonix232 20 points 10 months ago

Millennia? Fuck off. Capitalism in itself is barely a few hundred years old. Use of a designated tender (money) is NOT capitalism.

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CanadaPlus -9 points 10 months ago

Then what is it?

Seriously, people use a million definitions, and unlike with socialism tend to slide between them fluidly.

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fonix232 14 points 10 months ago

There's a pretty clear description:

Capitalism is an economic system where private individuals or corporations own the means of production (like factories, land, and resources) and operate them for profit, driven by market competition and supply/demand with minimal government interference, emphasizing private property, capital accumulation, and wage labor to generate wealth and economic growth.

Emphasis mine.

But yeah, the primary goal of capitalism is to extract as much wealth ("profit") as possible while reducing the number of people that wealth/profit benefits.

Up until the industrial revolution, almost all means of production was in the hands of the upper class (as per European/British definition of the term) - landed gentries, landowners, and the aristocracy (the three groups generally overlapping). The revolution itself allowed certain people to climb the social class ladder and become business owners (prior to that, most businesses were traders, merchants) and set up factories to manufacture much needed items.

So up until that point, capitalism as a system didn't really exist, not even in the US (up until that time, most of the US were private landowners who just wanted to eke out a life for themselves on new land, sans gold rushes and such). In fact I'd argue that the capitalist mindset of the US didn't really kick in until WW1, or rather, the handful of wars preceding it, mostly in Africa and South America, which provided an opportunity for US weapons makers to grow the industry beyond the country - and it really kicked off during WW1, then got raised to new heights in WW2.

Also, an integral part of capitalism is the beneficiaries lying to those who actually produce the value, the wealth, the profit, to keep them in line. One such lie is that capitalism existed for millennia, when in reality, the true forn of capitalism is mere 100-150 years old.

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Pyr_Pressure 11 points 10 months ago

Ah, yes. It's the first system that freshly evolved monkeys created thousands of years ago. It must surely be the best system to stick with.

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avidamoeba 8 points 10 months ago

This must be sarcasm.

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gmtom 7 points 10 months ago

Yeah because we totally had a ruling class of billionaires exploiting a sticks and shares system in Byzantine times 🤡

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ohulancutash 6 points 10 months ago

Barely 200 years, but good effort.

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Grass 11 points 10 months ago

I clicked on this thinking it was a picture of a stick of ram

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panda_abyss 4 points 10 months ago

So this is going to look like an empty list and that communism didn’t hurt anyone? What a waste of space and money.

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Doomsider 4 points 10 months ago

They were going to do a victims of capitalism, but then they realized it would wrap around the earth a few times.

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jordanlund 2 points 10 months ago

We don't allow editorialized headlines, the original might have changed up on you:

"Following controversy, all names will be left off Canadian monument to ‘victims of communism’"

Please fix it or we'll have to remove it.

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BlackVenom 1 point 10 months ago

Our title, comrade.

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AI_toothbrush -2 points 10 months ago

The difference between the left and right is that there are victims of nazis, many in fact but there are no victims of communism. Yes the ussr, china, cuba(that thats a long story) are horrible many of them were just bad straight up, but most of them were actually not even really communist. In the ussr a new bourgeoisie and "royal family" emerged for example. Different system same shit. What the ussr and the others were are against the fundamental definition of communism.

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