It's truly amazing what can happen when they don't cut quite so many corners and release the minimal viable product.
Harrison 35 points 3 years ago
I'm not sure that using the entire QA staff of the world's largest agglomeration of Dev studios on a single game only qualifies as "not cutting corners". That's surely going above and beyond.
Neato 29 points 3 years ago
If that's what it takes to ship a game that doesn't have multitudes of game breaking bugs like they're known for, perhaps the company has bigger problems. Like still using an engine that is this bad.
Haui 4 points 3 years ago
I really don’t like the word agile since everyone I ever met who had this in their job title was blowing up steam someones butt. Is that the job description or what is it with these agile types?
ChickenLadyLovesLife 6 points 3 years ago
Agile used to refer to a very specific way of developing software, but then it got coopted by the mainstream where companies kept doing shit the same way they always had but calling it "agile". It's basically like when early Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire.
totallymojo 114 points 3 years ago
Spoiler: It's still really buggy.
Dubious_Fart 15 points 3 years ago
yeah, the game stinks of gamebryo, but.. I've only had one crash so far.. Who would have that that all it would take to make a less buggy bethesda game was the entire QA department of one of the biggest companies on the planet.
bleistift2 3 points 3 years ago
You know you suck as a studio if your players settle for “It only crashed oncej”
Dubious_Fart 3 points 3 years ago
You are missing the very important "so far"
because it has crashed on me many times since that post.
kameecoding 19 points 3 years ago
that's just a reality of software development and hard set deadlines.
Twelve20two 2 points 3 years ago
Do the people who choose the deadlines (especially if they're the publisher) really have that much influence on the programming and development side of things?
totallymojo 16 points 3 years ago
I walk by a shelf and it randomly explodes from some physics glitch.
Things forever rolling that should not be rolling, like books.
NPCs just keep sprinting into a wall.
NPCs stuck halfway through the floor, both alive and dead.
Enemies teleporting into mountain, and can shoot me from there.
Creatures not attacking when they should.
Ships clipping into stations.
My character stuck in a pose.
Guns floating.
Nothing game breaking though!
Just immersion-breaking.
Im more concerned about other stuff. Performance. Design choices.
I get 37fps in towns with an "UFO rated" computer on userbenchmark.
The menus are horrible.
And what good does the spaceship do? I just fast travel everywhere. I think I've seen the inside of my ship twice i 10hrs.
Story is the most lazily written, generic scifi tropey stuff I've seen.
No maps. No clue where shops are.
The game is marketed as huge and open, but in reality it's all just setpieces with empty planet surfaces. You cannot get into your ship and fly 500m east to your mission marker. If you do that, a new map is loaded and none of your missions are there.
totallymojo 4 points 3 years ago
Yeah. People have vastly different combinations of hardware and software. Different manufacturers and drivers. So it can be really different.
If they play on pc, I mean.
I seem to unknowingly have built myself a real shit-magnet of a computer. Basically no new game has worked well for me since I built that one.
I had like 20 bad bugs per hour with Cyberpunk on release while my buddy had like one mildly annoying per 5h.
Darktide just didn't work at all. Kept crashing six months after release, then I gave up.
Etc etc..
Dubious_Fart 5 points 3 years ago
I concur with pretty much everything you said, though I will say my FPS has been significantly better than yours. You got an nvidia card? I heard they are bugged with bad performance and waiting for a driver update.
Game, while less critically fucky than previous Betehsda efforts (No doubt thanks to Microsoft dragging Bethesda into QA kicking and screaming), still carry the heavy stink of gamebryo, with classic bugs that have been there for decades.. Like items/NPCs falling through floors for no reason.
I dont mind the very plane world map on random gen planets and shit, but how the fuck am i supposed to navigate New Atlantis or Neon on a field of useless floating dots and a collapsing fast travel icon stack?
edit I want to add that the autosaving fucking sucks, too. Especially since i got set back by a significant margin due to the crash i just had.
Rehwyn 4 points 3 years ago
The issue with Nvidia cards is that Bethesda had an agreement with AMD for the game dev, so NVIDIA DSLL isn't included. This means NVIDIA cards can't by default take advantage of their full resolution upscaling ability.
I say "by default" because there's already mods that replace AMD FSR with NVIDIA DSLL. I installed DSLL 3.5 and have been running it essentially without issues (very rarely the screen goes black for a second or two). Getting smooth frame rates on my 2070 super, 3440x1440, High settings other than resolution scaling (which I set around 58%, essentially DSLL "balanced").
MeatsOfRage 3 points 3 years ago
Same, it's been exceptionally smooth considering the scale and scope of this game
c0mbatbag3l 4 points 3 years ago
Yeah the Microsoft QA team is probably the only one that's ever touched the game.
emptyother 9 points 3 years ago
But it IS still the least buggy Bethesda game yet, that I believe. If all people got to complain about is lack of some HDR shit, theres not much to complain about.
I've only found a few bugs so far: One enemy floating in air, and followers who aren't good at following.
emptyother 2 points 3 years ago
That I can believe. I'm too young for that. Didn't get to play until Morrowind.
altima_neo 8 points 3 years ago
"it just works"
ShittyRedditWasBetter -26 points 3 years ago
Game is great. You people just want to bitch.
ShittyRedditWasBetter -21 points 3 years ago
Yeah because it's incredibly hard to have the data amirite?
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/starfield
They just want to bitch, and you just want to make a pointless comment because my username isn't W H O L E S O M E enough for you.
BruceTwarzen 8 points 3 years ago
If you don't mind the puppet faces, the Bethesda jank and playing from loading screen to loading screen, the game is great. I wouldn't even pirate that crap.
ShittyRedditWasBetter -17 points 3 years ago
I just imagine your life is like a 2am infomercial. Open a can and all of a sudden you've fallen and broken your arms 🤣.
ShittyRedditWasBetter -8 points 3 years ago
And yet, you have minor bugs and mostly positive experiences.
secret301 3 points 3 years ago
In all other Bethesda games I only have minor bugs because of mods to fix a majority of them. I'm not buying star field for another 2 months at least because I've played previous Bethesda games and I rather buy it once it works
BustinJiber 23 points 3 years ago
"We assembled our best team of Creed Brattons."
Twelve20two 2 points 3 years ago
Holy shit is that the job title he held on that show? He was part of Dunder Miflin's QA?
cheery_coffee 2 points 3 years ago path: 0 3046693 3062520 3063404, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 3
Twelve20two 2 points 3 years ago
(it's been years since I watched the series, please don't hate me for this) I don't remember what that means 😅
nooneescapesthelaw 3 points 3 years ago
In one of the scenes he was trying to remember what he does for a living and as he's trying to remember he says that
BorgDrone 22 points 3 years ago
Apparently with all that QA they still missed massive picture quality problems
CreateProblems 63 points 3 years ago
Hey, I work in QA (not in the video game field though.) However, I can tell you there is a difference between "QA missed" and "deadlines required prioritizing other fixes."
One implies that the employees are bad at their job. Which is almost certainly not the case. I haven't played Starfield (or even clicked through to your link lol) but presumably this is something blatantly obvious. And I'm sure the QA team was frustrated letting a glaring known issue through.
QA finds issues but it's up to development teams to fix them, and strict deadlines will always hamper delivering a flawless product. But deadlines are driven by management and until the industry changes (i.e. don't preorder games) we're going to keep seeing these problems.
But as a QA professional, please don't blame us ✌️
stratoscaster 24 points 3 years ago
As someone who works in software dev, QA is a godsend to developers. Thank you for your sacrifice lol
reverendsteveii 16 points 3 years ago
This. You don't know what's sitting on a jira somewhere with "won't fix" tagged to it. As an ex-QA who's now a dev, we want to fix everything and we get told what we will and will not be fixing. When you see bugs in the final product that are relatively easy to reproduce, the story there is almost certainly that we found it and then the money told us not to bother with it because they think you'll buy the product anyway.
_stranger_ 7 points 3 years ago
My favorite interaction ever, as a QA:
me: Our integration testing environment is constantly broken due to bad practices among all the teams that share it. They need to be aware of the contract they expose and how they're changing it before they deploy their code to any shared space.
management: Given the recent complaints about the instability of the QA environment, we've decided to shut it down and eliminate all QA positions.
reverendsteveii 5 points 3 years ago
Our managers did that shit, too, back when I was in the durable medical equipment industry. They said some shit like "QA as an org is dysfunctional, as evidence by all the complaints. We're gonna streamline the process by eliminating them and having dev teams do their own QA according to this checklist we've developed. We think that we can get the same quality for less money and less bureaucratic overhead communicating between the dev teams and the QA team." They cut about $2 million in annual salary right then and there. A lot of our QA engineers and even a couple of their managers found out about the restructuring at the all-hands where they announced this.
Fast forward a year, they're getting the shit sued out of them and have to do a multi-billion dollar recall because of...let's just call it an "emergent use case" among our customers that no one foresaw and therefore no one tested. That emergent use case was sending people to the hospital. I'll go to my grave confident that someone whose only job was QA would have absolutely been able to catch that.
doom_and_gloom 2 points 3 years ago path: 0 3046033 3051253 3051481 3055367 3062276, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 2
RunningSpaces 2 points 3 years ago
Their soul would be sent to the crossroads.
MeatsOfRage 7 points 3 years ago
Hell yea brother. Lazy Dev / Lazy QA talk is shit that's gotta stop. Dev here. No one likes to ship buggy code, it's just gonna come back to bite us. Sometimes all you can do is ship good enough code because there are 20 more Jira tickets coming down the pipe.
The teams behind a single AAA game are often as big or bigger than your average tech startup. It's competing priorities all the way up and down the ladder and devs and QA often have very little influence over this.
bleistift2 1 point 3 years ago
If you’ve got 8 minutes to spare, this video explains why it’s not that easy: Why Do We Ship Buggy Games? - A Look Behind the Scenes - Extra Credits
BorgDrone 0 points 3 years ago
Yeah I don’t buy it. This is not a new engine they just developed, or some obscure complicated feature. This is one of the core functionalities of the game engine: render the game world onto the screen. And it’s an engine they developed in-house. They have been working on this game for years and years, and all that time no one noticed that output of the rendering engine is incorrect and everything looks washed out?
In the current state, the game should not have been released at all. If this is something that was fundamentally unfixable they should have pulled the plug and cancelled the game.
tdawg 23 points 3 years ago
As a developer who works with great QA people. I can guarantee you that the QA team were not the issue here. Where the developer's time was prioritized and what fixes where even allowed to be patched would have been a direct result of leadership decisions
ipkpjersi 13 points 3 years ago
Yep. A lot of people don't realize that games are not bad because of the developers but rather because of leadership. They incorrectly attribute the blame to developers and think developers want to build shitty games or something.
InputZero 5 points 3 years ago
I don't know why everyone is acting surprised, it's been this way for a while now. Pre-ordering any game is just paying early so you can be a dev-tester. I can't think of a major release in video games that hasn't been a buggy mess on release. I was fool with No Man's Sky, and I won't be fooled again. My plan is to just wait a few months until the second patch, same thing I do for all new releases and they're usually discounted a bit by then too.
PipedLinkBot 12 points 3 years ago
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IndefiniteBen 8 points 3 years ago
tl;dw
HDR is broken (or all colour grading)
ShortFuse 6 points 3 years ago
I've been in the SpecialK discord all of yesterday messing with stuff and went to bed.
Now I wake up and find that not only did they (SpecialK devs) fix the 8bit pipeline problem, but it paves the way for real HDR in all Direct3D12 games.
You have until launch day to return pre-orders and I was considering it, but we might have fixed HDR/black levels now.
undeffeined 29 points 3 years ago
Most recent RPG game from Bethesda. This studio got very famous for their Elder Scrolls and Fallout games, hence the widespread hype.
bleistift2 11 points 3 years ago
I’d say Bethesda got famous for building games around a shit ton of bugs.
CaptnNMorgan 2 points 3 years ago
Big if true.
Twelve20two 2 points 3 years ago
While I wouldn't put it past Microsoft: do you have proof of this?
CaptnNMorgan 3 points 3 years ago
Shit, I would like a hint at least! As far as I know this is just random tinfoil hattery. At least the earth LOOKS flat from most angles accessable by humans
ChicoSuave 11 points 3 years ago
PC?
chemicalwonka 2 points 3 years ago
I have a Nuc with Linux (Void ) too
Dubious_Fart 2 points 3 years ago
I'm not familiar with NUCs, So I dont know if that affects anything.. but I've been playing Starfield since it unlocked on Linux, so theres no issue with at least the linux part if that helps you with anything.
Marduk73 1 point 3 years ago
That's good to know. I mentioned the nuc because its not a gaming machine. I am able to play some stuff on it but its not a powerhouse. It is utilitarian for me. Budgets, bills, banking, videos, programming, etc.
tabularasa 13 points 3 years ago
Shocking. These days, normally, GA is QA.
ZC3rr0r 6 points 3 years ago
It's been that way for a while now.
When online patching became a thing most games studios quickly figured out they could push the game to press in whatever state, then work on fixing the bugs in between code complete and GA, and simply push those fixes as a launch day patch.
And commercially, it makes sense. The greatest the game is on the shelves, the earlier the investors see ROI. It's just a shame if this calculated gamble backfires and the degree find way too many bugs to fix in the window between code complete and release. That's when you get Cyberpunk 2077...
Haui 6 points 3 years ago
To be fair, I haven’t played 2077 on launch day but like 3 months later, on a medium-high gaming laptop. I‘ve had zero crashes, no T-poses and generally nearly no bugs.
The real problem was them releasing the game on last gen consoles which were (like low tier pcs) unable to handle the game. I would even go as far as to say that they made a game that was only playable on high tier hardware.
And interestingly enough now 2.5 yrs after release, the game has more bugs for me than it had 3 months in.
I‘m not a game dev so I can’t say why that is but as a dev I can say that fixing one bug might introduce another which becomes a lot harder to fix.
CaptKoala 1 point 3 years ago
I played at launch, and there were game-breaking issues every 15-30min for me, constant crashes etc. I rage uninstalled for the first time in years, due to a bug in the smasher fight the game would crash in the same spot every time, as such, I couldn't actually finish the game.
I revisited it after a broken leg earlier this year and it's come a long way, but yeah I really wish it had spent far more time in the oven as well as cutting out older hardware. The time they spent trying to get it to run somewhat stable on old hardware could've been far better used in QA and bugfixes.
I'm 7 characters deep, and I've stepped back to play other games (BG3 came along at the perfect time) while I wait for the DLC later this month. I foresee another few hundred hours of my life being sacrificed, if only so I can try my luck against maxtac.
daellat 2 points 3 years ago
Cp2077 will be an odd case for me always. It wasn't literally perfect but I couldn't complete two gigs and I experienced some graphical glitches and that was it, incredibly lucky somehow.. I 100%'d the game pretty much at launch, though I didn't do all of the possible endings I did do about 3.
c0mbatbag3l 8 points 3 years ago
It doesn't.
Basically the space flight mechanic is somewhere between Mass Effect: Andromeda and CoD: Infinite Warfare.
You use your galaxy map fast travel to go anywhere and can only fly the ship around each small "instance."
Planetary landings are restricted to POI's or you can land on some random spot, but the planets are broken up into chunks so you can only walk around so much before having to go back to your ship for another fast travel moment.
Ser_Salty 2 points 3 years ago
The NMS like gameplay is like a tiny part of it. It's a story heavy RPG first and foremost. Sure, you can do a lot of NMS style stuff, like gathering resources and scanning wildlife on a thousand planets, but that's really not why you should get the game. You should get it if you want a massive space RPG in the style of Bethesda. And yes, this time Bethesda actually made a proper RPG.
Dubious_Fart 2 points 3 years ago
Its fallout 4 in space. It doesnt compare to NMS. Or Elite, or Star Citizen.
Currens_felis 5 points 3 years ago
Anyone else seen the fallout 76 song it just works by the Chalkeaters?
corsicanguppy -6 points 3 years ago
Downvote for litchally.
Clent -16 points 3 years ago
Are you guys getting paid to advertise this game?
Nothing but endless posts in the past 24 hours on something I've previously never heard about.
Edit: the down voted form gamers with hurt feelings. I was half joking. All these over sensitive comments. I hope the game is trash. I'm sure you all fork over cash anyway. It's meme group not a gamer sub.
FuntyMcCraiger 12 points 3 years ago
Something paid, something something nautical term
pjhenry1216 9 points 3 years ago
I mean, just because you don't follow gaming news doesn't mean nothing happens in the gaming industry. And if you somehow didn't hear about this game that folks have been talking about for months as an extremely anticipated game, you clearly don't follow gaming news that closely.
Nitrate55 8 points 3 years ago
The game's exclusive early access period for purchasers of the premium edition just released. Big name streamers are playing and streaming the game. Reviews are pouring out of every game review site. On top of all that, the general release is days away. Obviously, people are gonna be talking about it.
kmkz_ninja 3 points 3 years ago
You asked a snarky ass question. Don't be an idiot.
Clent -1 points 3 years ago
I have admitted as much.
If it's so clearly snark, why the toxic gamers responses?
All the people calling me idiots, aka you are assholes.
This is fucking meme group, not totalseriousgamertalk.
Fragile egos.
redcalcium 4 points 3 years ago
You might never heard of it but this game has been hyped for years. We got no Skyrim successor for 12 years because Bethesda was busy with starfield, so naturally people want to see if the wait is worth it.
ShittyRedditWasBetter 3 points 3 years ago
Then get out from under your rock? Starfield has been on the hype train for ages.
ShittyRedditWasBetter 2 points 3 years ago
I'm not even all that excited. I just don't live under a rock 🤷♂️.
Clent 0 points 3 years ago
As am I.
Pity the toxic gamer culture doesn't appear to recede with age.
More than half the responses are attacks on me personally for something I said in jest.
Before anyone accuses me of trolling or whatever. Realize this is a meme community, not a gamer community.
c0mbatbag3l 2 points 3 years ago
Idk how you've managed to not hear about it. Or see it. Shit I don't even watch the videos and it's all over my YouTube.
memes
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memes
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this just in: actually spending money on QA allows you to put out a higher quality product
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