Is "Pass without Trace" overpowered?

5 months ago by Jürgen Hubert to c/dndnext

Is it just me, or is the "Pass without Trace" spell widely overpowered?

I mean, D&D 5E is generally constructed in a way that even small bonuses to rolls make a huge difference. Proficiency bonuses start with +2 and rise to a maximum of +6, while magical weapons give a maximum of +3.

So what in Avernus possessed the designers to allow a second-level spell to give a whooping +10 to Dexterity (Stealth) checks? For a group, no less (as long as they stick close to each other)? This is going to be extremely hard for guards and lookouts to match.

Azzu 26 points 5 months ago

It's almost like it encourages crazy sneaky infiltrations that would otherwise be impossible. It's almost as if it enables unbelievably fun missions. It's almost as if it makes the players feel like heroes with superhuman abilities.

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hypnicjerk 5 points 5 months ago

you got your fantasy in my power!

oh yeah? you got your power in my fantasy!

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wyldrstallyns 1 point 5 months ago

Deep in both, if you're doing it right.

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NightFantom 20 points 5 months ago

Note https://www.dndbeyond.com/...

Hiding (p. 177)

The following sentence has been added to the beginning of this section: “The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding.”

The first sentence of the second paragraph now begins, “You can’t hide from a creature that can see you clearly …”

So, for overland travel when you don't want to be tracked, yes, super OP.

For sneaking past a guard on a watch tower a couple dozen feet away and you can break line of sight or it's night? Maybe, possibly, probably.

For sneaking past a guard sitting in a chair in an empty hallway looking straight at the route you want to take? Nope, you're not even allowed to roll for it, so the bonus doesn't matter.

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milkisklim 6 points 5 months ago

for overland travel when you don't want to be tracked, yes, super OP.

I mean it's a second level spell that only lasts for an hour. A dedicated tracker NPC, could still find some way to sus out where the party has gone, albeit with a disadvantage.

Now the staff of the druids or whatever that magic item is that allows for unlimited pass without trace that's almost OP for overland travel, but hey that's why the BBEG has scrying.

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NightFantom 4 points 5 months ago

Yeah there's plenty of other ways to follow them, but you can't track them by prints they left.

OP is indeed a little overstated, it's a strong spell but with a very niche application, so all by all perfectly fine.

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OwOarchist 2 points 5 months ago

For sneaking past a guard sitting in a chair in an empty hallway looking straight at the route you want to take? Nope, you’re not even allowed to roll for it, so the bonus doesn’t matter.

What if I'm wearing camouflage pants and, like, trying really hard to be sneaky, tho? Tiptoes and everything. Should at least give me a chance to hit that natural 20.

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Noodle07 4 points 5 months ago

Drax ?

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NightFantom 3 points 5 months ago

Sounds like you're a rogue or ranger (iirc) with hide in plain sight, so you're fine, but your party still isn't

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wyldrstallyns 1 point 5 months ago

Although, a little Mass Invis., and you're back on track to ninja slide-hustlin' past that guard in the latter.

edit: meant "side", but I'm leaving it.

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btuftin 7 points 5 months ago

@juergen_hubert I don't think it's OP. With a roll for each party member, some of whom often have shit dex, and potentially a new room in the next corridor there's a good chance of revealing there's an incursion. And it doesn't prevent guards from noticing opening doors, disappearing crown jewels, or any interaction where a stealth check wouldn't be appropriate. So once discovered an action like hide is required to go back into stealth mode, just as if you didn't have the spell on you. And in a world where it exists, guards for something truly important should set up some choke point where there's just open ground and enough guards having clear line of sight to all of it.

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HubertManne 3 points 5 months ago

yeah came to say stealth is not invisibility.

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orbituary 4 points 5 months ago

Pass without a trace doesn't guarantee success. It's a bonus, but if you're walking through a field with no cover and the grass is ankle deep, sorry... no. I would have to say that only an absurdly high DC or at night still with a substantial DC would it work.

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sirblastalot 2 points 5 months ago

Also worth noting, when doing group stealth, you're effectively limited by the least-stealthy party member, since it usually only takes one person getting caught to give the game away.

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eerongal 2 points 5 months ago

I mean, realistically, you should be using group checks instead of individual checks for stealth like this IMO

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DragonTypeWyvern 1 point 5 months ago

Ranger exclusive, so no. Realistically sneak attacks are easy to get for rogues anyways and a surprise round doesn't do much that winning initiative doesn't.

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cravl 1 point 5 months ago

Not exclusive, druid gets it too.

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DragonTypeWyvern 0 points 5 months ago

Oh that's broken then nerf pls

Oh wait, it already was

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Alandrus_Sun 1 point 5 months ago

It's either the most powerful spell or completely useless table-to-table.

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dndnext

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A place to discuss the latest version of Dungeons & Dragons, the fifth edition, known during the playtest as D&D Next.

Join our discord! https://discord.gg/dndnext

-- Rules --

Be Civil. Unacceptable behavior includes name calling, taunting, baiting, flaming, etc. Please respect the opinions of people who play differently than you do.
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