Shorthand should completely replace cursive in schools

16 days ago by nitroemdash to c/unpopularopinion

I know that varies by region, but schoolchildren are generally taught cursive as a faster way to write. It already requires some memorisation with some glyphs being different from block letters. Why not make an additional step and completely replace it with shorthand, making writing an order of magnitude faster?

Vicinus 21 points 16 days ago

Upvoted, because I think it's unknown, so unpopular. Though it sound like a good idea to me.

I'm curious to hear any drawbacks others find.

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CompactFlax 15 points 16 days ago

The argument that I’ve heard put forward about learning cursive is that it improves fine motor control and writing across the board; I’m not sure that the resulting messy combination of two glyph styles is “improved”. Why not teach calligraphy then? Shorthand is at least practical.

This makes sense, but I don’t know shorthand at all. Is it as legible as printing if you know it?

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9tr6gyp3 11 points 16 days ago

The other argument for learning cursive is A LOT of historical documents have been written in cursive. Not teaching someone cursive means their literacy becomes handicapped.

I guess the same could be said for shorthand.

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LodeMike 7 points 15 days ago

"Students must learn latin so they can read the bible"

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9tr6gyp3 2 points 15 days ago

Its in English, not Latin

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LodeMike 6 points 15 days ago

That's the Bible?

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emeralddawn45 1 point 15 days ago

Id love for you to find an example of a single historical document that is relevant to someone today and hasn't already been transcribed hundred of times on the internet.

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9tr6gyp3 1 point 15 days ago

https://www.loc.gov/item/mss351210535/

This is labeled # Frederick Law Olmsted Papers: Speeches and Writings File, 1839-1903; Undated; On religion, fragments

According to wikipedia:

Frederick Law Olmsted (April 26, 1822 – August 28, 1903) was an American landscape architect, journalist, social critic, and public administrator. He is considered to be the father of landscape architecture in the United States. Olmsted was famous for co-designing many well-known urban parks with his partner Calvert Vaux, beginning with Central Park in New York City, which led to numerous other urban park designs including Prospect Park in BrooklynCadwalader Park in Trenton, New Jersey, and Forest Park in Portland, Oregon.[2]

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emeralddawn45 1 point 15 days ago

This is why I specified relevant. Just because something was once written down, doesn't make it worth reading.

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historicaldocuments 2 points 15 days ago

Choosing here to reply because I agree with you about the fine motor control, and I also agree with @9tr6gyp3 about being able to read historical documents (roll credits).

One argument I'd bring up in the whole cursive/shorthand debate is whether there are any other languages that have glyph sets that have already been described with Unicode that would be just as fast as shorthand? I'd also want to consider the ease of doing OCR on the documents for digitization. I don't see how shorthand would be good at either of those things.

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LodeMike 9 points 15 days ago

Hell yeah! Let's take one unreadable form of handwriting and replace it with another even more unreadable form!!

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alsimoneau 7 points 15 days ago

Its almost like the goal is to teach people to read and write it

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cerebralhawks 8 points 16 days ago

Shorthand makes sense, since a lot of public schooling is about teaching you how to pass tests. I don't mean to sound so cynical; they're trying to teach you the critical thinking necessary to beat the tests. That's how it works. They know you'll never use most of that crap, but it's also basis for other things, so it's somewhat useful.

Cursive and its more elegant cousin, calligraphy, can be important, but are mostly useless. A class on both should be an elective at best. They're nice to know and could be useful in some situations, but there are more jobs where shorthand would be an advantage, and it would be an advantage in note taking as well.

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iconic_admin 8 points 15 days ago

What is short hand?

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fakeman_pretendname 11 points 15 days ago

Short hand is "journalist writing", where a series of kind-of-scribbles sort of refer to real words, so you can take down someone's speech in real time in an abbreviated form, then rebuild it "back at the office" and horribly misquote them.

shorthand (wiki link)

What actually is cursive? I only know it as a "thing that makes some Internet people angry on Facebook".

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protogen420 3 points 15 days ago

cursive is something americans dont understand

jokes aside is style of writting that actually comes "normal" writting, after centuries of attemptinf to write faster people started to write whole words in one stroke and letter began to change their forms to be easy to write in this style, it naturally evolved and somewhat standardized

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fakeman_pretendname 2 points 15 days ago

I googled it... and it's just the American word for "joined-up writing", like you do in primary school.

It's literally just that. All those whingeing posts on social media... they were crying about joined-up writing. Hahahahaha. What an insane bunch of babies.

[Edit] when I say "googled", I of course mean I googled it with duckduckgo, or duckduckgoed it or whatever.

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iconic_admin 1 point 15 days ago

At least with cursive you have a chance at deciphering it. Shorthand looks like gibberish.

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nitroemdash 4 points 15 days ago path: 0 24140655 24142539, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
Treczoks 7 points 15 days ago

Forget cursive, just teach block letters.

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protogen420 1 point 15 days ago

what about the opposite? cursive only

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Treczoks 3 points 15 days ago

For what? Who uses/needs cursive outside school?

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protogen420 4 points 15 days ago

I only write in cursive, most people write cursove where I live, I don't even know how to write the "normal" way

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fakeman_pretendname 2 points 15 days ago
  1. People who make props for a film, set in the early to mid 1900s, that includes a handwritten letter that is briefly held up in front of the camera whilst the main character reads it, with a single tear dropping down their cheek
  2. Doctors and pharmacists
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remon 1 point 15 days ago

No, it's a pain to read.

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motruck 6 points 16 days ago

There are studies that show benefits to learning cursive beyond knowinv cursive.

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Amnesigenic 2 points 16 days ago

There's exactly one benefit, hand eye coordination, and it can be trained equally well by a wide variety of activities

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BassTurd 2 points 16 days ago

Being able to read cursive would be a second thing. Lots of old letters and texts written in cursive, and that can be hard to decipher if you've never learned it at least a little.

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Amnesigenic 1 point 15 days ago

You can learn to read cursive without writing it at all

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BassTurd 1 point 15 days ago

It's certainly easier if you're taught, especially at a young age though. I feel like when I was young and learned, that it wasn't more than a week or two on the topic. I personally don't think that's a wasted effort.

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Onomatopoeia 4 points 16 days ago

I actually agree.

I've always thought both should've been taught, first cursive, then by grade 6 start shorthand.

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Professorozone 4 points 15 days ago

Totally agree. I started learning shorthand a while back but never finished the self study. Eventually I forgot everything but later in life though how awesome it would have been to literally write down everything said in some of my meetings at work or my classes in college.

That said, I think we don't have to decide between them. Teach both.

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JoMiran 4 points 16 days ago

Gregg or Teeline?

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shittydwarf 3 points 16 days ago

A few of the early Gregg systems were apparently pretty easy to learn/pretty simple (Greghand/Notehand)

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HubertManne 3 points 15 days ago

ill upvote.

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Pfeffy 1 point 15 days ago

How old are you that you know what cursive and shorthand are and think that children are using either? I'm 40 and the only person I know that uses cursive and I learned it from my grandmother when I was homeschooled.

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nitroemdash 4 points 15 days ago

I live in a European country where cursive never fell out of use (in fact, I believe here your exam papers will not be accepted if you write them in anything but cursive). All I know about cursive state in America is that it was phased out, and now seems to be returning.

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Pfeffy -2 points 15 days ago

You live in a country that requires handwritten papers in 2026? I don't believe you.

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Aussiemandeus 2 points 15 days ago

I'm 32 in Australia and still write in cursive.

Learnt in school and unless it says print in block letters that's all I do

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adarza 1 point 15 days ago

we learned something called personal shorthand in school (1980s). it was a unit in a required class in high school. i wish they would've done it in junior high instead, though. no glyphs, just regular letters. i still use bits and pieces of it decades later.

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mlg 1 point 15 days ago

I think shorthand typing would be pretty awesome but I don't even know any public schools that teach proper typing anymore.

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