If you can’t see past your own nose then what else is worse? Your own nose isn’t a purity test it’s just your character… almost like it’s YOUR OWN NOSE.
When Amerikkkans are told to vote blue
3 days ago by DeathToZionazis"m" to c/memes
CaliforniaSober -4 points 2 days ago
CaliforniaSober -2 points 2 days ago
Exactly
ILikeToMeow 27 points 3 days ago
Democrats and Republicans aren't actually against each other, they pretend to be two different parties as it is an effective psy-op to keep the populace believing in a Reformist path to change, so we do not pursue a Revolutionary path instead. As long as the populace continues to believe a Reformist path (like voting) is able to save them, the Capitalists can continue doing what ever they want, only Revolution can save us (IE we must save ourselves by overthrowing the Capitalists), and only once the people in general realize this, can Revolution actually succeed. It is also why we must keep pointing out to people how the system is rigged against us, how as long as we live in Capitalism Democracy is a lie and the oppression and exploitation and U.S. bombings will continue.
ILikeToMeow 12 points 2 days ago
Just to be clear, Cops being bad is not an inherent property of them in and of itself, but rather Cops serve the State, and in a Capitalist country, the State serves Capital, and so the Cops also serve Capital, but in a Socialist country, such as China, the Cops are completely different as the State actually serves the interest of the overall masses, and so the Cops also by extension.
culprit 7 points 2 days ago
ACUCAB just doesn't have the same snap to it, but Under Capitalism is an important distinction indeed. Reminds me of a Parenti quote about why socialist states have to have a significant level of state authority because of constant capitalist incursions and subterfuge.
Tlaloc_Temporal 0 points 2 days ago
It's more inherent than that in most cases. The job attracts power trippers, the culture and standards in most precincts encourages abusive assholes and corruption, and once the cops can cover for each other it becomes self-selecting for abuse. At least in North America, cops are heavily pre-disposed to being bastards, even before the reality of their purpose.
ILikeToMeow 5 points a day ago
That is an issue, though with that in mind one major difference between Capitalism and Socialism is that Capitalism doesn't really care if Cops are abusive sacks of shit, so long as they keep serving the interests of Capital, on the other hand, in Socialism the whole point of the system is to best serve the interests and well being of the people in what ever capacity the current level of development of the country can provide, and so while Capitalism let's Cops fester with power hungry racists, Socialism actively works to root out and remove corruption, finding and kicking out the power abusers.
Microtonal_Banana 13 points 2 days ago
I remember when they were trying to endorse Mike Bloomberg the republican billionaire.
huey_m 8 points 2 days ago
100% not a psy-op or collusion. They really just both bought deeply into the shift to neoliberalism in the 80's, and it has so defined politics for the last 4 decades that few politicians have wrapped their heads around the fact that the continual rejection of both parties by the people is really a rejection of that neoloberalism that we're clearly in the death throes of. Trump succeeded not because every person who voted for him was a racist (I mean, that's definitely a big cadre among his supporters, but it isn't what got him in), he succeeded because people are so desperate to end the neoliberal norm that's crushing everyone that they'll vote for a guy that literally soft-pedals fascism over another neoliberal.
But I really do think the majority of them are true believers. They've been born and raised in that politically environment. It's all they know and they really can't imagine anything else, even if it's really only been a few generations ago that things looked very different.
ILikeToMeow 6 points a day ago
The "Founding Fathers" (rich slavers) had set up the "Democracy" (of the rich) with "Checks and Balances" to prevent the "Tyranny of the Majority" (Actual Democracy) precisely so the Capitalist Class (them) would remain in complete control. Considering this, it is very unlikely the modern Capitalist Class would somehow not be aware of the ways their own class has set things up to keep themselves on top and the rest of us underfoot. It is much more likely they know exactly what they are doing up on the stage, that all the real decision making is done behind closed doors, that the Billionaires and Trillionaires get the final say, and that the electoral clown show in the big party tent exists to fool the populace, only different from the start in that they got better at it. I remember when Biden straight up looked like he was having an orgasm in response to Trump "winning the election" as if it's what he wanted to happen, like say, because it would mean they can get everything they want WITHOUT having to hide the shit they do, and so Trump also functions as a scapegoat, if they get everything the want to just "cast all the blame on Trump" Trump goes off to live in blood soaked luxury, having done his job, then the Democrats swoop in to "save the day". Such a tactic can only work however if people fall for the clown show and don't realize that it is the entire Capitalist system itself that is the problem and the only way forward is to overthrow it and replace it with a Socialist system.
huey_m -4 points 19 hours ago
I don't entirely agree.
While I don't agree with the way Congress is arranged with a clearly establishment-favoring Senate, we shouldn't take this to mean there's no such thing as a tyranny of majority as we've literally seen it play out historically many times. Look at Jim Crowe laws passed by majority white populations that harshly kept black Americans down for years up into living memory. Or anti-gay laws... tyrannies of majority 100% happen and it's a big reason why we have specific Constitutional rights that try to prevent it. Groups using democracy as a cudgel to smack down other groups certainly happens though. I would agree that the Senate is more about preserving current power structures than actually trying to prevent that though.
I also just don't agree at all that Biden wanted Trump to win... I think this is a hammer looking for a nail and seeing one, honestly. We just aren't going to agree on that point and aren't going to see each other's point of view, and we're not going to be able to prove hidden intentions, so I'm not sure this point is worth harping on. What I would say is that as Democrats and Republicans are both neolibs, Democrats would sooner see a Republican elected over someone they deem to be an actual threat from the left.
ILikeToMeow 1 point 5 hours ago
This post is an excellent example of why reading Marxist Leninist Theory should not be treated as optional, there is so much wrong with the post I'm not even sure where to start, and I don't really have the energy for it either, so unfortunately we'll just have to leave it at that. (BTW Cowbee has an excellent guide to help you get started Basic and Advanced)
CommanderCloon 5 points a day ago
A distinction without a difference. There is no need for collusion when you're moving in the same social circles, meeting the same people, having your campaign funded by the same social class with the same needs and objectives.
And yes, Trump was a mold breaker there, but only as a facade, the reality is not that Trump is "rejecting" neoliberalism, it is that neoliberalism is breaking apart, by its own incoherence, in the US as everywhere else.
huey_m 1 point a day ago
Second part first, agree totally. I don't mean to suggest Trump truly represents some sea change against neoloberalism... but his rhetoric was very much a rejection of a lot of it. He's absolutely a liar in terms of actually representing change from the status quo... he's a pure kleptocrat, plain and simple. But the point is that facade is what resonated with people because even those without the knowledge base or words to form why they're over neoliberalism, are very much over neoliberalism. Regular people, not, not just political nerds.
First part, hard disagree because it informs strategy on how to move past it. If you believe both sides are colluding to keep the masses down and there's no real electoral path to improvement... well, we're at the stage of violent revolution and there's no point faffing about further. Neither of us are out there with rifles yet, so I'd argue neither of us really, truly thinks that's the case yet. Because that actually does happen in places like Gaza, and for good reason - they literally have no other recourse. We've got the table tilted against us, but ultimately we can and do upset the institutional power still. Trump, while he didn't represent real change, was absolutely totally rejected by institutional power in his initial run and managed to win by establishing a faux-populist cult of personality... that literally could not have worked if electoralism was truly totally dead.
CommanderCloon 7 points a day ago
well, we’re at the stage of violent revolution and there’s no point faffing about further
I do believe we are at the stage where this is the only means of change. We're not doing it because most people are still delusional (or generously, "hopeful") that we are not, or don't even think about changing things at all by desperation / capitulation / ignorance.
CyroSignal 4 points 18 hours ago
Liberals in the United States :
geneva_convenience 6 points 3 days ago
Which support genocide! https://youtu.be/pKAYLj1TpRI
SocialistVibes01 6 points 2 days ago
DSA is a freaking joke
velma -12 points 3 days ago
Yeah I find this push for the US to take arms against the US army kind of a weird one at this point. It's not going to happen overnight and the US is fucking huge. Like, do you all realize how geographically BIG the US is? Do you have any understanding of the difficulties we face in mounting any sort of physical resistance to this shit? You're solidly delusional if you think complaining at individuals on Lemmy is going to spark a physical revolution here.
Athena5898 13 points 2 days ago
Okay, counter point. Why complain at people on Lemmy then for pointing out facts? You kind of make it apparent this way that this is about your world view being challenged.
If you acknowledge that you have to do more then vote and America is not a democracy. It means you have wasted you time and your life on people who literally cannot care about you with the way the system is.
We are not voting our way out of fascism. We are not fixing a system working as intended.
Arcanepotato 11 points 3 days ago
They could at least stop actively supporting it and cheering it on, but that's too "divisive" 🙄
geneva_convenience 9 points 3 days ago
You know the take is factually correct but you still dismiss it because you want treats for yourself and you are willing to compromise on US imperialism for it.
velma -2 points 3 days ago
Nah, I agree with the take. I disagree that fighting in the comment section against people who are more aware than the average us citizen is going to produce the results you want.
RiverRock 19 points 3 days ago
Democrats arming genocide is now "Russian propaganda", I am so happy to see the blue maga conspiracy world crumble on contact with reality, you smug racist morons truly deserve every ounce of the confusion and impotent rage that your self-inflicted future has in store for you.
CaliforniaSober -6 points 2 days ago
How morons pretend voting happens…
BrainInABox 8 points 2 days ago
Going to start ranting about white genocide in South Africa next?
Fancy_Gecko 8 points 2 days ago
can provide some evidence of this genocide that doesnt originate from cia ?
davel 7 points 2 days ago
We haven’t looked past the Uyghurs, actually. In fact we’ve looked very closely.
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
The only countries pushing this narrative are the “always the same map” imperial core countries, which just so happen to be largely the same ones supporting Israel’s genocide.
Almost no predominantly-Muslim country buys the Uyghur genocide narrative, because they know it’s bullshit, because they talked to the Uyghurs themselves.
https://twitter.com/... #HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.
- The Uyghur Human Rights Project is a product of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the American government’s main regime change NGO.
- A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China
- The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified
- Uyghur genocide allegations
- American Debunks All Major Western Propaganda on Uyghurs and Xinjiang
- US-Funded Uyghur Activists Train as Soldiers of Empire
- The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent
Genocide is more than just killing, it’s the deliberate destruction of a people including its culture and institutions.
(a) Show me the Uyghur bodies
(b) Show me the serious bodily or mental harm
(c) Show me the conditions calculated to bring about physical destruction in whole or in part
(d) Show me the measures intended to prevent births within the group
In accordance with China's affirmative action policies towards ethnic minorities, all non-Han ethnic groups were subject to different laws and were usually allowed to have two children in urban areas, and three or four in rural areas.
(e) Show me the forcible transfer of children from one group to another group
violent incidents in East Turkestan
I wonder where those Salafi terrorists came from? Oh right: the US, UK, and Israel organized, funded, and trained them, as they did Al Qaeda and the various flavors of ISIS/ISIL, including the “moderate rebels” that just took over Syria. The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent.
Set_Status_Online -20 points 3 days ago
Really tired of "both sides bad." Political change should not be moving fast and breaking things.
Right now we have a hole to dig out from. We need to get to the point where we can vote for the people we really want.
By not voting you say that everything is fine and you are okay with the status quo.
Vote for the change we need right now. Do not let our future slip away.
RiverRock 29 points 3 days ago
We need to get to the point where we can vote for the people we really want.
You people have actual short term memory loss
How many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote FOR something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?
-Hunter S Thompson, 56 years ago
Bloomcole 17 points 3 days ago
- we find here two great gangs of political speculators, who alternately take possession of the state power and exploit it by the most corrupt means and for the most corrupt ends – and the nation is powerless against these two great cartels of politicians, who are ostensibly its servants, but in reality exploit and plunder it. *
Frederick Engels 135 years ago
That shithole's banana republic politics is the longest running gag in history.
Rat_in_a_hat 25 points 3 days ago
This is the most political-history ignorant comment I've read in a very long time.
How do you think people have rights?
calmblue75 11 points 2 days ago
History started with the first election of the USA.
BrainInABox 19 points 3 days ago
"We need to vote for change and to dig ourselves out from this hole!"
-Proceeds to vote for Democrats, who change nothing, and dig the hole deeper.
"Oh well, my memory will have reset long before the next election comes around, so we can do it all again!"
marxismtomorrow 19 points 3 days ago
Political change should not be moving fast and breaking things.
It should absolutely 100% be that when the alternative is genocide and fascism.
Athena5898 13 points 3 days ago
The only reason you wouldn't want to break things right now means you still think there is good in the system. The system is working as intended and absolutely needs to be broken so something better can be made.
impairedimperator -14 points 2 days ago
Alternatively, there can be the simple recognition that breaking the system that exists will result in a mass casualty event as current systems keeping the masses alive break down, and the resulting collapse will be capitalized on (lol) by your local warlord.
I'm sure the local warlord will be a great bastion of anti authoritarian praxis.
Athena5898 14 points 2 days ago
There are already thousands and more dying by the second with the current system. There is already a mass causality event and it will continue to get worse as the current system makes the world less and less inhabitable.
And we don't have to have a "local warlord" the idea that people can put something better in place then fascism is ironically a right wing talking point. Though I blame the propaganda that has caused us to view our fellow as a enemy instead a comrade. But that's a whole other point.
impairedimperator -9 points 2 days ago
Correct on all counts.
And yet, the reality is that the collapse of society will lead to even more casualties. The other reality is that I don't know of a single collapsed society that became altruistic, and did not devolve into local warlord killing each other.
RiverRock 12 points 2 days ago
A mass casualty event? Brother we've been in the mass extinction event for years, and every day we don't destroy the system that created it is another day the odds of the human species surviving the next couple centuries continues to fall towards zero.
impairedimperator -12 points 2 days ago
Yes, I am certain that your life will begin improving measurably when the food runs out.
impairedimperator -6 points 2 days ago
What an astute observation! I wouldn't even describe it as a boil, maybe a light simmer if anything. Because you know what? My life is pretty nice.
So now that we have established that fact, perhaps it would be prudent to consider how you reach the majority of the population that is in my boat (not literally, I mean, when I'm on my boat I'm generally reading a book on my own). But I mean the ones that think like this and don't read books by Kropotkin.
ILikeToMeow 6 points 2 days ago
In order to effectively break the system you need organized Revolution, and for that it must be supported by the masses, and for mass support it must help people, meaning the Revolution must be building something like a state within itself to support it's own Revolution, so when it is big enough, when it finally has overthrown the Capitalists, it will already be prepared to take over as a governing body. The only chaos then is in the Revolution itself, but a small moment of bloody violence in plane sight is nothing compared to the massive death, destruction, torture and despair, that the system does constantly out of sight, hidden away (as much as it even can hide it), that the small by comparison but more in sight and quicker violence of a Revolution which will finally end it.
impairedimperator -10 points 2 days ago
Okay. Well, when this glorious mythic Revolution begins, we will see what happens. Until the second coming of the Revolution, were stuck in reality. Although it seems some of us might be stuck is a certain level of Revolution Revolution worship.
Revolution.
CaliforniaSober -7 points 2 days ago path: 0 24342233 24357245 24358659, hotness: undefined, score: -7, children: 4
Feathercrown 7 points 2 days ago
You're dodging the question
CaliforniaSober -8 points 2 days ago
You’re misspelling the question missing the point and not making sense. But everyone else is wrong…
pineapple 4 points a day ago
Dam can one ask a question without geting barated for speling mistakes? I'll refere you to some resources about how revolution might make things better but I'm not sure if you interested in engaging with a proper conversation atm.
CaliforniaSober -8 points 2 days ago path: 0 24342233 24358647, hotness: undefined, score: -8, children: 6
CaliforniaSober -7 points 2 days ago path: 0 24342233 24358647 24358690 24358712, hotness: undefined, score: -7, children: 3
CaliforniaSober -8 points 2 days ago
It’s been a multi year mockery of common sense while even thinking of discussing common good being screamed out of the room by folks screaming over listening. It’s been common and weird while certain folks lean into it…
radiowaffle -22 points 3 days ago
Precisely. We are not in a place where it is possible to make a different choice. Other countries seem to not understand it - do you know how massive our country is? How inconsistent our education is? How divided we are? We are not, under any circumstance, uniting half of the country in voting 3rd party, especially not now when tensions are so high. We have to get past the point where being picky dooms us to the greater of two evils. Should it work this way? Of course not. Should we try to change this stupid two party bullshit? Absolutely...but not right now. Right now, there is too much at stake.
BrainInABox 20 points 3 days ago
Absolutely…but not right now. Right now, there is too much at stake.
This would be more persuasive if you didn't say it every election for decades.
Bloomcole 16 points 3 days ago
Every election is “the most important election in history and in our lifetime”
dessalines 18 points 3 days ago
Should we try to change this stupid two party bullshit? Absolutely…but not right now. Right now, there is too much at stake.
Its sad that people are so ignorant they don't realize that the controlled opposition wing of the US empire has done this for every election, and people are still falling for it. Liberals have the memory of a goldfish, and are naive enough to think the US is a democracy.
radiowaffle -1 points a day ago
And what exactly do you propose? How do YOU think we unite the entire country in making this change? Because right now, half of it is brainwashed by a cult. Things in 2026 are completely different from revolutions in the past and need a different approach. So if I'm so ignorant, then please, enlighten me on how we invoke change on such a massive scale right now, today, instead of focusing on getting to a mediocre point where basic rights aren't being stripped away one by one. Because as someone who has a life outside of the internet and isn't a straight white man, I have much more immediate concerns for the safety of myself and my loved ones than a grandiose plan to overthrow the government. So I implore you to give me somewhere to start.
Cowbee 5 points 11 hours ago
Dessalines already linked the reading guide I put together, but I want to address something you bring up. Conditions are different from past and present revolutions, correct. In what ways, though? What part of revolutionary strategy is general, and what part is particular? What do we take, and what do we have to figure out? The truth is that much of revolutionary strategy is very similar, but what changes is the class outlook.
Western countries are generally imperialist, and the US is also a settler-colony. This impacts the class demographics. The US Empire is also in decay. Gradually, the working classes have interests more aligned with the global south, ie ending the empire. This type of revolution has not really happened yet, but this doesn't mean revolution isn't still necessary.
Step one is to get organized, join an org like PSL. Step two is to educate yourself and others on theory, history, and practice. Step three is to agitate among the people and bring them into the fold, creating a unified and disciplined working class with the skills and knowledge to correctly overcome revolutionary obstacles.
dessalines 4 points 11 hours ago
Step one is education about what works, and doesn't, and how worker liberation has been acheived in the past. Here's a good reading list from @Cowbee@lemmy.ml , and one that I host.
Step two is organizing: joining a communist / working-class party, and if none exist, starting one like the Black Panthers did. Which org you join depends on which country you live in; but we can only gain liberation by joining organizations which push our interests and not those of capitalists.
SocialistVibes01 15 points 3 days ago
Should we try to change this stupid two party bullshit? Absolutely...but not right now. Right now, there is too much at stake.
With such mentality, pro status quo, change won't ever happen.
radiowaffle 0 points a day ago
Not directly going for the throat of the two party system =/= pro status quo. I'm saying we cannot skip over everything else before we can take that on. If you truly believe that we can just jump to that complete overthrowing of the government rather than first address immediate dangers on smaller scales and building up what's been destroyed, then I don't know what to tell you.
SocialistVibes01 2 points a day ago
Étapisme failed hard everywhere. Why repeating the same mistakes?
Objection 11 points 3 days ago
We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."
radiowaffle 1 point a day ago
Correct, it's not voluntarily given. I'm not saying we should keel over and die. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. I'm saying right now we have much more dire issues than the two party system. We can't skip to that. Everyone loves to say "but there will never be a good time, you have to do it now!!" Okay, do WHAT now? Like I asked the other person under my reply, what exactly do you think we should do to completely skip over the shit that's close to home and attack the two party system? We have to address the issues that are plucking us off one by one before we as a nation can have the strength and unity to take on the core principle of our government.
Objection 4 points 17 hours ago
The first step to finding a solution is to recognize that the existing tools are woefully insufficient. Suppose we didn't have elections at all, suppose all we had was a monarchy where the only recourse within the system was to petition the king, to ask him nicely to act on our behalf. Should we still rely on that? Should we drop other approaches because they might sour the king's mood?
With a little imagination, you can find that there are inherent mechanisms for asserting power that are not provided by the system and which exist regardless of the system's best efforts to take them away. All systems are manmade and can be changed and dismantled if enough people stop cooperating with it. This does not have to look like a traditional revolution, with pitched battles and whatnot. Strikes, protests, development of mutual aid networks and dual power structures, even targeted boycotts can be more effective than voting for a candidate hand-picked by the ruling class.
The electoral system keeps people disorganized and divided, it directs energy away from those tactics instead of towards them. The idea that non-disruptive tactics could possibly someday produce change makes people unwilling to engage in tactics that are more disruptive, because nobody really likes being disruptive, taking risks, creating tension, but that tension is necessary to effect change.
The effect that electoral politics has on defining people's political identities cannot be overstated. The moment you cast your vote, no matter how reluctant it may be, there will be a part of you that wants to justify and defend your choice and before you know it you're now defending things that you never would otherwise. Nearly all political discourse becomes colored by this question of who to vote for. Again, think about how you would read news stories differently if you had no mechanism within the system for expressing your voice. But that is essentially where we're at because the mechanisms provided by the system are ineffective, but while we have this idea that they could be effective, people still define themselves along those lines.
Let me give you an example. I live in a solidly blue state, previously, I lived in a solidly red state for most of my life. At no point has my vote for president had any impact on the outcome whatsoever. This is true for the vast majority of Americans. And yet, when I talk about my refusal to vote Harris or Biden, people yell at me, a lot. Why? It has no material impact. It's because it's primarily a cultural signifier, a way of defining a political identity, and any material consequences are of secondary consideration. So long as people are allowing bourgeois parties to shape and define their political identities, that's going to dissuade them from engaging in direct action.
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If "stop supporting genocide" isn't the first step, then what the fuck is? I can't think of a lower bar, but I'm told it's actually a "purity test".
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