GrapheneOS duress PIN could land a man in prison

25 days ago by floofloof to c/privacy

DupaCycki 114 points 25 days ago

Name one thing that can't land you in prison in the US. I'll wait.

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AmyAye 126 points 25 days ago

Indirectly murdering hundreds of thousands of people in pursuit of profits.

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ExcessShiv 47 points 25 days ago

With the caveat that, if you don't achieve those profits, it will land you in jail.

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DupaCycki 11 points 25 days ago

Got me there

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msage 7 points 24 days ago

And manslaughter with a car.

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ReignOfTerror 4 points 24 days ago

That's an instant death sentence if the person you're running over is an ICE agent, however.

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umbrella 84 points 25 days ago

pedophilia (if you are rich)

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arin 18 points 24 days ago path: 0 24962513 24964757 24967031, hotness: undefined, score: 18, children: 0
DragonOracleIX 7 points 24 days ago

You don't even need that first part. Being rich makes it 10x harder for you to be prosecuted.

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WitchKnight 24 points 25 days ago

For profit slave labor prisons are very lucrative I hear

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PattyMcB 10 points 25 days ago

Being white

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tlekiteki 102 points 25 days ago

Supreme court has ruled that warrantless phone search at the border is bogus, but theyre too shitpantsed to stick with it

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umbrella 23 points 25 days ago

they are evil and hypocritical is what they are.

they want to make an example out of people trying to escape the panopticon.

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SunDevil 7 points 24 days ago

Not if you live within the jurisdiction of the 4th Circuit. The court "ruled that a lower standard applies to manual searches, allowing the government to conduct extraordinarily invasive electronic device searches without any suspicion of wrongdoing, simply because the border officer chooses to search by hand rather than with a forensic tool."

https://www.eff.org/...

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wax 2 points 24 days ago

Does this apply to non-US citizens as well?

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tlekiteki 0 points 24 days ago

You mean slave/s?

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Sir_Gkar 57 points 25 days ago

Seems like what's needed is the ability to load an alternate profile or some kind of demo mode based on the pin. Something that looks normal but doesn't have any info you don't want others to see, without actually deleting anything.

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steelplatedmech 41 points 25 days ago

Or loads a dummy profile and deletes other profiles without giving away what is happening.

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Coleslaw4145 31 points 25 days ago

I had this feature on a Xiaomi phone that i had a few years ago. I could even set up the fingerprint reader to open a different profile depending on which finger i used.

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kureta 8 points 25 days ago

Sounds awesome.

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GMac 10 points 24 days ago

Dont think that would be as secure. Once a phone has been unlocked after reboot, even if it has been locked again, the operating system and ram can be accessed quite easily with the correct tools and border controls have those tools.

Even a Graphene phone is only properly secure before first unlock after reboot. So i would not personally rely on allowing acess to any profile. I would assume its possible, (probably trivial) to gain complete access from there.

Any duress pin use should be covered under a person's right to avoid self incrimination.

If the phone is owned by your employer and they are the investigation target, then you might be on dodgy ground.

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WhoIzDisIz 8 points 25 days ago

Alternately, a user profile that isn't displayed anywhere, but accessible only through a specific PIN, maybe. Not sure how you'd explain the storage space either option used, however.

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jmp242 17 points 25 days ago

It should work like truecrypt used to where there's no sign some of the encrypted blob is not actually visible in the fake os.

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Carl 11 points 25 days ago

I think the point is that if you load an empty profile (no photos, no videos, no apps, etc) but your phone storage is nearly full, it could throw up a red flag.

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Xerxos 5 points 24 days ago

That's why the fake profile would not show that the storage is full. Unless they try to load lots of data onto the fake profile it would not be obvious.

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fodor 4 points 24 days ago

Nothing is needed. Erase your shit before you travel in or out of the US.

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OrganicMustard 1 point 24 days ago

You can already have multiple independent users in graphene (maybe in stock android too idk). You have to switch them before the possible search though.

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shadowtofu 43 points 25 days ago

You have to carry a piece of paper in your wallet that contains a PIN. The piece of paper contains no further information, just a PIN. You decline to answer any questions regarding this piece of paper or your phone’s PIN.

This might not be a good idea, depending on your jurisdiction.

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utjebe 12 points 24 days ago

Or just set it to your mmddyy or something typical for weak passwords

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dsilverz 3 points 24 days ago

I'm not going to disclose my specific way, but numbers don't need decimal digits to be expressed and parsed. An hypothetical example:

Oh... ye shadow! Nahamah, my Mother

Believe it or not, this is encoding the today's date, 2026-07-26.

Oh = 2 letters
Elipsis = no letters, so 0
ye = 2 letters
shadow = 6 letters

Nahamah = 7

My = 2
Mother = 6

The funny part? I just conjured this technique during the composition of this very reply. It's somehow easy for me to conjure atypical steganographic techniques, and I use steganography quite often IRL. In this way, I can literally write down my passwords and keep in my wallet, and absolutely nobody will get to figure out it's meant to be a password.

Luckily for FBI and other investigation agencies, I dont even think of visiting the USA, but good luck for any fed or cop trying to keep up with my plethora of steganographic techniques (and my neurodivergent brain) amidst plausible deniability if I ever did. Lol

!privacy@lemmy.ml

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Melobol 2 points 24 days ago

You can have a business card with a "phone"number on it. (Your pin can be any part of that number it is only you who needs to know where to start reading the code). You don't need to have a sus number only piece of paper. :)

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vala 25 points 24 days ago

The point is that the cops would find and enter the pin.

It's the wipe pin.

They wiped it, not you.

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SupremeDonut 26 points 24 days ago

If the phone's security prevents them from accessing information, then they have no information. How can they prove there was any information on it to begin with?

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JamesBoeing737MAX 9 points 24 days ago

They just accuse you of withholding evidence. Yay for freedom of speech.

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eldavi 19 points 24 days ago

@SupremeDonut@lemmy.ml the courts already decided that it was okay to jail people for literal years for not providing a password: https://en.wikipedia.org/...

and there are more:

  • United States v. Fricosu
  • United States v. Doe (2012)
  • United States v. Kirschner
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SupremeDonut 10 points 23 days ago

Jfc. Next you'll be jailed for not having a phone

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eldavi 12 points 23 days ago path: 0 24976323 24981481 24981769 24989825 24990089, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 3
W3dd1e 2 points 23 days ago

That was a court order though. If there is no court order and no warrant, they shouldn’t be snooping through anything.

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eldavi 1 point 23 days ago

the courts have decided that all ports of entry -- including airports -- are constitution free zones; meaning that the constitution does not apply there.

as a result most americans -- 2/3rds of them -- live in places where the constitution does not apply to them.

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akunohana 26 points 25 days ago

This is yesterday's news. Destroying evidence is a crime in a lot of jurisdictions. With that in mind, I don't understand how somebody who apparently uses Graphene OS didn't bring an empty burner when crossing one of the most notorious borders in the world.

Which isn't to say that the laws that require you to unlock your phone and that throw you in jail if you securely wipe it aren't hostile and inhumane.

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Aequitas 69 points 25 days ago

How are they supposed to know there was evidence on it? I'm allowed to delete my files, aren't I?

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DupaCycki 30 points 25 days ago

Be careful not to swallow your spit. They may think you're swallowing a bomb and shoot you on the spot.

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dadarobot 2 points 25 days ago

i think it would have been different if he wiped it before he came through customs. he gave them the pin, which destroyed the data after it was requested. almost like the phone was boobytrapped.

personally i just try to delete most of my communication apps on the plane before i get back to the states (signal, lemmy, instagram...) in case they want to search my phone and get mad about a meme. (precident). i also try to offload as much as possible to selfhosted apps where applicable (rss reader, podcasts) so i can just log back in and have everything.

i dont know how far these searches can go, but id be worried about password managers and app store history too along with any account where you can just "log in with google" or whatever. once the device is unlocked and in their hands, they can have access to quite a bit of personal information.

i bet theyre just pissy this technology exists and are trying to make it illegal.

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fodor 1 point 24 days ago

Not quite. If you know or shouldreasonabley believe someone is about to arrest you or sue you, depending on the circumstances, judges can tell juries to assume the erased data would show something bad. But it depends on the details.

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Carmakazi 0 points 25 days ago

Not if you're given a Lawful Order (tm) to produce that material. Whether or not that material is incriminating is irrelevant.

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akunohana -1 points 25 days ago

I'm no lawyer, but I think that's called circumstantial(ly improbable). Try convincing a jury of that. 🥲

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RQG 34 points 25 days ago

This sounds a lot like proving my innocence instead of them having to prove guilt.

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Eggman -5 points 25 days ago

They aren't but it is the same as if you have been accused of murdering some one and you burn the car you are accused of moving the body to the river in.

Edit: I am not saying i think its how i should work but its the logic behind it

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ParlimentOfDoom 9 points 25 days ago

They didn't accuse him of anything, and let him go afterwards. This was an illegal search attempt.

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electric_nan 57 points 25 days ago

Except that this person wasn't accused or even suspected of a crime.

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OccasionallyFeralya 22 points 25 days ago

If I understand correctly they didn’t actually delete anything it just shreds the encryption keys so it can’t be accessed. Idk if the difference matters a whole lot though.

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ExcessShiv 28 points 25 days ago

No it wipes the data from the phone

GrapheneOS provides users with the ability to set a duress PIN/Password that will irreversibly wipe the device (along with any installed eSIMs) once entered anywhere where the device credentials are requested

source

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madasi 14 points 25 days ago

That is a distinction without a difference. Either way the once accessible data can no longer be accessed any longer.

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akunohana 12 points 25 days ago

Very interesting! I'd like to ask a lawyer how they think the courts would view that. The data is intact, just not decryptable. 🤣

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inmate_p01135809 8 points 25 days ago

Sounds like we might find out how the courts will view it.

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akunohana 2 points 25 days ago

Stay strong 😓✊

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GMac 14 points 24 days ago

In order to be convicted of destroying evidence, there needs to be proof that there was "evidence" on the phone in the first place.

If something on the phone is already known without doubt, then what's the need for access? if there is doubt at the time of the wipe then there is no proof or destroying evidence. 🤷‍♂️

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picnic 4 points 24 days ago

I cross the US border every few months.

Stopped carrying a laptop, still crossing the border with a graphene phone, tho.

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quick_snail 24 points 24 days ago

And that person is the officer that destroyed the evidence

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hamid 15 points 24 days ago

Funny how the lemmy liberals never believe that the US is the authoritarian country lol

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stochasticity 36 points 24 days ago

Really? I feel like I'm constantly seeing complaints about the US's growing authoritarianism.

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themurphy 8 points 24 days ago

They didnt grow to it. Nobody just gave a shit before, because it wasnt against all skin colors.

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1984 10 points 24 days ago

It's not even about skin color, not really. It's about poverty and people not having a chance to get out of it. I would also commit crimes if I felt my life had no future and im white.

As a consequence, black people commit crimes and white cops become racist because they see that. But its not really about skin color if you look at the full picture.

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pelican476 5 points 24 days ago

I think this is misguided and a bit too optimistic. Racist cops don't become racist because of their lived experiences, they're already racist when they take the job.

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hamid -2 points 24 days ago

Oh yeah racism in the US is not about skin color, brilliant take.

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hamid 3 points 24 days ago

I mean from the cadre of Anti-russia, Anti-china accounts who try and tell me I am a conspiracy theorist for thinking that the CIA is behind "all world events" despite talking about a specific event where the CIA actually overthrew the country I am from.

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hamid -1 points 23 days ago

lemmy liberals are a specific group of people and not everyone.

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pinto 2 points 23 days ago

In a thread where people are saying US is an authoritarian country: "wow they never say this"

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hamid -1 points 23 days ago

This thread isn't the lemmy liberals? I'm not talking about the people on lemmy.ml privacy and this thread? Maybe if this comm was on shitjustfash

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tgc2darkness 2 points 23 days ago

What they don't believe is that it has started decades before Trump

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Zerush 3 points 23 days ago

BS. It's a claim from last year and not only in Spain, that criminals often use encrypted phomes (logical), among others, Graphene OS, but also iOS and Android. Not that all who use encrypted devices (or message apps) are criminals, which due the amount of these devices result absurd to say. As often, periodists write and share half understood news. In Spain as also in the rest of the EU, phones and messages of individuals can only be intercepted by the police with a court order in a criminal investigation, not globaly like in the US. There may be cases when an individual under criminal investigation deletes incriminating messages, which can be punished for concealment of evidences.

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DieserTypMatthias -24 points 24 days ago
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floofloof 19 points 24 days ago

What a coincidence that it was the guy protesting the police who was also suspected of possessing such materials. If it turns out they had real independent grounds to suspect he had such images, I'll change this view, but for now I assume that's the cops' standard line to shut down people's questions. Just say they thought the political target had CSAM, and immediately people see him differently, plus the police can accuse anyone who challenges their actions of supporting pedophiles.

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Skipcast 13 points 24 days ago

Sounds like bs without any definitive proof

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Strawberry 13 points 24 days ago

They implied that based on his use of grapheneOS/erasure of the device. In reality he is a Stop Cop City activist. The fascists just want to associate good privacy and security practices with criminality and depravity.

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BlackLaZoR 3 points 24 days ago

How do you know if phone got erased?

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