Money doesn't solve everything, but it helps.

2 months ago by sanitation to c/workreform

Darkcoffee 69 points 2 months ago

In our current system and how late stage capitalism is decimating most of us, money literally solves everything

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schipelblorp 13 points 2 months ago

Therapy, is like cars, a sign of a failed society. I don't mean that the failure is that we don't pay for therapy, the failure is that socially we have no way to deal with suffering other than to pay a separately trained and certified and regulated professional to deal with it, one-on-one.

We have forgotten how to support ourselves, we have forgotten how to support each other. The systems that used to support us--family, church, bowling leagues, clubs, work--have collapsed around us, leaving us all alone, and isolated, and depressed.

The idea that this societal collapse should be dealt with one-person-at-a-time at $100+/hr is in itself more mad than anyone you will find on a couch.

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raze2012 4 points 2 months ago

we have no way to deal with suffering other than to pay a separately trained and certified and regulated professional to deal with it, one-on-one.

There are plenty of ways. The issue is that some are individualistic and some are systematic. A therapist cannot fix a systematic issue; it cannot get you a better job, but maybe it can get you in a mindset to try and improve youself to get a better job (despite the job market being shit). It can't build third places but it can prod you to look for the little pockets where some still remain.

It's not a magic bullet. But sometimes a little perspective can help you improve your life.

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schipelblorp 2 points 2 months ago

A therapist cannot fix a systematic issue; it cannot get you a better job, but maybe it can get you in a mindset to try and improve youself to get a better job (despite the job market being shit).

This is an interesting example of therapists try to fit their practice into solving every problem there is.

If you can't get a better job, maybe your money and time would be better spent with a job coach or resume services than a therapist?

Instead, a therapist can make some vague promise of some emotional or mental shift that will somehow make a difference when months or years of job searching have not? Doesn't that seem kind of bogus to you?

I mean, I get it, I can see how it MIGHT work, but I also see it being a much more lucrative vector for absolute fraud.

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raze2012 3 points 2 months ago

If you can’t get a better job, maybe your money and time would be better spent with a job coach or resume services than a therapist?

I have considered it, yes. In a better market, if I was struggling it may in fact be worth it just to get a few weeks of guidance on how to redirect my career. It's also less ambiguous because many people's goals are met when they can get a job or get that promotion or whatever.

However, reality can set in very quickly when I go to a temp job service and even they (which can generally find an odd job for you in a few weeks ) just outright say "yeah, there's not much out there right now". That's the judement between "you need professional help" and "this didn't work. job coaches are a scam!". Job coaches aren't magicians that pull labor out of a hat.

Instead, a therapist can make some vague promise of some emotional or mental shift that will somehow make a difference when months or years of job searching have not? Doesn’t that seem kind of bogus to you?

Not a surprise to me. a job is pretty obvious. your mind isn't. And it's biased towards yourself as well. I'd hope we'd advanced enough to start to take aspects of the mind like stress seriously. But at the same time we still have a lot to learn and a lot of old prejudice to overcome.

The main goal of a mental health coach is to at least help you look outside yourself. Sometimes the job market is bad and it's not your fault even if you blame yourself for some random decision years ago. Sometimes it is in fact all your fault and they help you realize you've been actively cock-blocking yourself out of success over several opportunities you had to get a job. Because you're depressed.

The goal of a job coach doesn't care how you feel as long as you got your goal done. The goal of a mental health coach is to remove those bigger blockers. And that doesn't always feel good. Confronting your demons rarely does.

I also see it being a much more lucrative vector for absolute fraud.

That's why therapists need to be licensed, while a job coach doesn't. Licensed don't guarantee competency, let alone compatibility. But it mitigates the risk of someone pretending to be a voice of authority and telling you to kill yourself for the greater good.

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BCsven 3 points 2 months ago

I live in an area of high Indian immigration. They typically have multi generational homes. They are often larger homes, since everyone can contribute to the mortgage.

But the main thing that stands out is the children always have family around, sometimes cousins live in the same house too. Isolation doesn't seem to be an issue. There's always support and task sharing, so parents aren't burnt out at end of day struggling to parent.

Out of 1000s of homeless people I see in Vancouver, they are mostly white or indigenous, rare to see an Indian homeless person here.

And then there is the huge community they have, besises church/temple meeting, but meeting in parks daily.

I think we lost a lot of community and circles of support when we adopted the isolation type lifestyle of "modern" life.

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schipelblorp 3 points 2 months ago

You bet! Modern therapy was created to treat the problems of modern life after modern life destroyed all the systems that kept us socially and spiritually healthy.

We've been abandoned by each other, so we look to "the state" to fix everything, but that's extremely expensive. I remember being a social worker thinking, "You know what, just about every family I work with would be much better off with the money the state is paying for me to talk to them than for me to talk with them."

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BCsven 1 point 2 months ago

Oof that's rough

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Telorand 43 points 2 months ago

Alternate plan: do away with people's need to have money to live by dealing with the broken system that puts them in that position.

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iThinkDifferentThanU 12 points 2 months ago

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NocturnalMorning 7 points 2 months ago

I don't think "contributing to society" should be the bar for whether someone has a right to live or not.

We are the only animals on the planet who hoard resources and then block distribution of said resources behind little pieces of paper. We have basically solved scarcity already, and instead of sharing, we are burning the world to the ground for paper.

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podian 0 points 2 months ago

This take is so hot it could burn down the trash heap that is contemporary society!

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fizzle 31 points 2 months ago

Maybe by extension it's time.

Having had kids I've really learned that I need time to just fritter away. Down time. Not for chores or for date night or for my hobbies or for tv.

Just time to do nohing important and watch the day while away.

Sadly I need a lot of this time. Or maybe I'm just running a huge deficit so it seems like I need a lot.

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PunnyName 8 points 2 months ago

To quote the goblins from World of Warcraft, "time is money, friend!"

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alsimoneau 3 points 2 months ago

It always was.

Money is how we convert human work into convenience. It's the universal bartering good.

If I don't want to do something, I exchange time spent doing something else for it. This also lets me specialize in doing a single thing, which is how we progressed as a society.

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Kolanaki 28 points 2 months ago

With money, I could even get therapy!

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lookitsjustin 27 points 2 months ago

Therapy would be great... if I had money.

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PunnyName 17 points 2 months ago

Check your local social services department, you might have a mental health provider in your area that's government funded. You likely won't see a therapist right away – or often – when you begin the process, but it's better than nothing at all.

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PRIMEcavitationfetishist 5 points 2 months ago

Wow I got three therapy appointments. I learned so much about mindfulness and CBT.

And it was years before I dated a trans woman again, so I couldn't even use the CBT.

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Funkt4st1c 12 points 2 months ago

$10,000 would change my life entirely

The only and one time i had 4 digits in my bank account was after the covid stimulus checks.

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Polisheocket 7 points 2 months ago

It is until it’s gone, I live in a vhcol area and have 100k in savings, that literally a lost job and a medical emergency away from being gone. It’s all relative

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raze2012 2 points 2 months ago

You probably have bigger problems (and a shit insurance) if a medical emergency is big enough to drain 6 figures.

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Polisheocket 1 point 2 months ago

No job likely no insurance

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Strider 3 points 2 months ago

Have money for therapy.. Therapist selection to get the one fitting for you would also be essential.

It's not about parent trauma and standard stuff for everyone.

Also als neurodivergent a new planet with the opposite 99% / 1% distribution would be very healing.

Yeah, I'm not having a great day.

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sanitation -21 points 2 months ago

Don't do it. They don't care. My sister in law has a masters in this stupid field and was working doing these therapies, and I can assure you she herself is a total nutcase

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just2look 29 points 2 months ago

Just because you know one shitty therapist doesn't mean that there aren't excellent therapists out there.

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Catoblepas 15 points 2 months ago

My therapists helped me put my life back together after over a decade of spinning my wheels and struggling with PTSD. Sorry about your sister, and it's not like I haven't also seen shitty therapists, but that's definitely not everyone and I think it's a bad idea to discourage anyone from reaching out for help. People should leave therapists they don't click with even if they're not bad per se, because if you don't like them or they don't respect you then nothing productive is going to happen.

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schipelblorp 2 points 2 months ago

But also there are a lot of alternatives to talk therapy.

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PunnyName 6 points 2 months ago

Talk therapy is 1 ingredient in the mental healthcare burrito.

It's the tortilla.

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Catoblepas 2 points 2 months ago

I never said there weren’t. Art therapy, equine therapy, music therapy, there are plenty of options that aren’t ’sit on the couch and tell me about your mother.’ But for a lot of people who feel like they can’t talk about their mental health struggles, talking about it is exactly what they need.

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Catoblepas 2 points 2 months ago

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DupaCycki 27 points 2 months ago

Therapy is fantastic, but any therapist will tell you that for it to have lasting effects, you need at least 12 months of continual attendance.

Now ask yourself how many people can afford weekly therapy sessions for a year. Where I live the cost would be about 3.5 median paychecks.

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schipelblorp -3 points 2 months ago

Find a therapist that will guarantee results after 12 months or your money back.

I'll wait.

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Rooster326 8 points 2 months ago

Find a nutritionist who will guarantee results after 12 months or your money back.

I'll wait

Find a physical therapist who will guarantee results after 12 months or your money back.

I'll wait

Find any professional who will guarantee results after 12 months or your money back when the issue comes down to personal responsibility

I'll wait

You don't show up, say your week was fine, you don't believe in therapy, you have nothing to talk about, go home and magically get better.

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schipelblorp 5 points 2 months ago

Yes, you're right, I was being unfair to therapists there; nobody offers money back guarantees for services.

That said, I find it kind of repulsive how therapist imply you WILL get better if you just put in the time (ie, give them a lot of money). I've seen plenty of therapists, I've NEVER had a therapist terminate me because I wasn't getting better, even though I never got better with any therapist no matter how long I´d seen them. It seems most therapist will happily cash your checks in perpetuity unless you become a problem (suicidal), in which case many therapists will find a way to drop you like a hot potato.

But if you actually do care about research instead of soaking clients for money, there was a paper that showed that therapy usually starts working after a relatively short time period (maybe 2 months?) [edit: if its going to work at all], so I'd counsel people to stop seeing a therapist if they're not seeing any benefit from it--a piece of advice nobody you are paying for advice is likely to give you and at least try a different therapist if not a different approach entirely.

Anyway, my anecdotal or lived experience (depending on if you want to devalue it or value it) is that I only got better when I disassociated myself from the mental health care system. The mental health system CAN do an amazing amount of harm, even unintentionally, and I don't see a lot of therapist even aware of the possibility.

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raze2012 2 points 2 months ago

I find it kind of repulsive how therapist imply you WILL get better if you just put in the time

Like literally anything else in life? Yes. put in the time, get results.

Are there exceptions? Yes. medical conditions can make you not see gains in the gym, learning impediments can hinder progress in acedemics. Maybe it's a bad teacher sometimes, but for the most part: put in time, see results.

I’ve NEVER had a therapist terminate me because I wasn’t getting better, even though I never got better with any therapist no matter how long I´d seen them.

Okay. That's personal responsibility too. How many trainers terminate because you aren't getting gains fast enough? How many teachers stop tutoring you and say you're hopleless?

You can call it perverse incentive, but at the end of the day you gotta speak up for yourself and figure out what works best for you. Sure, if you really have 10 sessions talking to a person and you feel no better than ranting to a friend, you probably need a different approach, But therapists aren't some magical exception to capitalism.

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Rooster326 1 point 2 months ago

Yes therapists are like shoes. Sometimes you need to try a few, and I can see why most therapists don't say this (Because there are some bobo shoes) but they really ought to.

You absolutely 100% do not need a full year, agreed. The therapists should being a form of therapy such as EMDR, or being teaching skills very quickly after your initial appointment.

If all they ask is 'How is your day' with no plan to graduate you, or moved to a lower contact situation - they probably aren't very good therapists

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Lushed_Lungfish 20 points 2 months ago

"Money doesn't buy happiness". Absolutely true. Look at all the miserable wealthy billionaires and trillionaires.

Money, however, does ENABLE happiness by warding off fear, despair, hopelessness and all other crap.

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captain_aggravated 14 points 2 months ago

Money doesn't buy happiness but financial instability eradicates it.

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starelfsc2 7 points 2 months ago

I heard someone say "money isn't everything, but not having it is."

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phx 5 points 2 months ago

My take is that money doesn't bring happiness, but poverty definitely can strip it away

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Napster153 3 points 2 months ago

I think what we're looking here is for breathing room. The cost of living must return to sustainability for people to expand and regain lost stability in all expects of their lives.

Of course, certain people will try to gaslight into saying that being a serf for Neo-Feudalism is the best thing ever, and that an organisation or state that doesn't serve your wellbeing or interest is the best thing ever

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BarneyPiccolo 2 points 2 months ago

"Money may not buy happiness, but it can but a jet ski, and I've never seen anyone on a jet ski that wasn't smiling!" - some comedian

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ThatGuy46475 1 point 2 months ago

There was a commercial for a cruise line where the daughter stopped smiling as soon as she saw mom was filming, does that count?

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SaharaMaleikuhm 17 points 2 months ago

I think money would solve about 90% of my problems, which would likely do wonders for my mental health.

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yuurei 6 points 2 months ago

Everyone thinks that way, everyone is competing, and everyone is drained. Money makes our problems.

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WorldsDumbestMan 6 points 2 months ago

With money, I could stop working, fuck off to some forested area with a fuckton of supplies, buy experimental treatments, have my own garage 3D printer to experiment with.

Maybe I would not be so bland and my friends would actually like me.

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yuurei 3 points 2 months ago

It seems like it would be really hard to earn enough money on your own to create your ideal environment. Maybe the real solution is finding friends who'd help you build that life.

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raze2012 2 points 2 months ago

it would be really hard to earn enough money on your own to create your ideal environment.

In this economy, yes. Because any savings goes into increasing cost of living.

Maybe the real solution is finding friends who’d help you build that life.

They too busy working too,

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4grams 3 points 2 months ago

I’d quit my job, sell my house, get a box in the middle of nowhere and work at a gas station the rest of my life. I’ve got kids though, and a wife, they are more important than me so my mental health gets ignored for now. Maybe once these kids are grown..

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WorldsDumbestMan 1 point 2 months ago

Yep. Make damn sure you are willing and ready to die a torturous death, before you do your part in the cycle of life.

When there are way less humans though, that is the only situation I see people being valued.

We are all replacable and interchangable to each other. You can find every type of person in the world, there is no reason or price to screwing someone over. You can just throw down judgement on people easily, as you don't depend on them whatsoever.

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solidheron 15 points 2 months ago

People don't realize this but USD(money) is how we Access world wide economy ( and each other), so depriving someone of money is basically cutting them off from society.

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WorldsDumbestMan 6 points 2 months ago

That is the idea. It is not enough to kill people for being weak (unlucky), you also have to torture them along the way.

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vantablack 14 points 2 months ago

"money can't buy happiness but it sure can pay the rent"

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Wildmimic 12 points 2 months ago

I'd correct that to:

Money helps up to a point, and everything going beyond that needs therapy.

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alsimoneau 5 points 2 months ago

But you need money for therapy

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FavouriteShapes 12 points 2 months ago

Or just, wealth/stability. So many people would give away money to have their own vegetable garden attached to a multi-generational home - they can then figure the rest out from there.

Humans are different and have different interests but one thing common to all of us is that we enjoy:

being outdoors
exercising
having community
learning skills and creating things

There are actually some people who successfully self therapise. This is hard to do, so it's actually a testament to just how many people out there need therapy, which reflects how unhealthy modern life is for humans.

The core idea of the tweet is correct - people can heal mental health sounds when given the right environment to. We live in a time where almost nobody is in the right environment for this, which requires what I listed before (healthy community, access to green space, purpose and recreation). This is basic stuff, I think it's covered by Maslow's hierarchy of needs - which, ironically, is often shown to business students in universities, but then disregarded by the capitalists who rule this world.

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UnderpantsWeevil 6 points 2 months ago

So many people would give away money to have their own vegetable garden

I guess I'm in the minority. I'm perfectly happy living in a townhome with a postage stamp backyard if it puts me walking distance from a fully stocked grocery store stuffed with fresh food harvested out in the country.

Humans are different and have different interests but one thing common to all of us is that we enjoy

I mean, I'll spot you fresh air and friendly neighbors, relatively speaking. But being outdoors when it's muggy or freezing or ozone-y is highly overrated. Exercise isn't something I need (or prefer) to do in my home when a park or gym is nearby. And hobbies are, similarly, nice to do in a communal space where all the tools I need are at hand.

So I might spot you "quality public amenities" in lieu of "disposable income/savings". But I think your mileage is really going to vary by climate and weather conditions when it comes to just telling people to touch grass.

This is basic stuff, I think it’s covered by Maslow’s hierarchy of needs - which, ironically, is often shown to business students in universities, but then disregarded by the capitalists who rule this world.

Maslow's a great "Intro To" for sociology, but it does run into a lot of caveats and limits. People will periodically risk or outright sacrifice lower "basic" needs in pursuit of higher goals. And influencing that behavior is exactly what business-and-marketing seeks to achieve. Capitalists don't neglect Maslow, they aspire towards exploiting and subverting it. The ideal commoditized bit of human capital is going to live in the pod and eat the bugs and own nothing and still be happy.

Maslow is for the real people, not the NPCs.

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AeonFelis 12 points 2 months ago

Reminds me of https://slatestarcodex.com/...

Specifically:

In this case, it was that – well, the guy is a minimum wage worker from inner city Detroit. He didn’t tell me exactly how much money this debt was, but from a couple of numbers he mentioned I got the impression it was in the ballpark of $5000. That might not seem like an attempt-suicide level of money to some people, but to this guy with his job the chance of ever paying it off seemed low enough that it wasn’t worth waiting and seeing.

So what bothered me is that psychiatric hospitalization costs about $1,000 a day. Average length of stay for a guy like him might be three to five days. So we were spending $5,000 on his psychiatric hospitalization, which was USELESS, so that we could send him out and he could attempt suicide again because of his $5,000 debt which he has no way of paying off. And probably end up in the hospital a second time, for that matter.

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nonentity 11 points 2 months ago

I’d suggest one better: stop gating the provision of subsistence behind financial transactions.

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explodicle 4 points 2 months ago

But then the smart high-status people wouldn't get economic rent! People would poison themselves and we'd have an opioid epidemic! You're basically a patent medicine snake oil salesman. /s

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Puddinghelmet 11 points 2 months ago

Limit the amount of assets everyone can have to 1M-10M and tax inheritance, so peoples start position is drawn more equally. So the money will end up by people who start with none thru the government thru taxes. Solved next

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Hupf 5 points 2 months ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkseigener_Betrieb

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Puddinghelmet 1 point 2 months ago

interesting tysm!!

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iocase 10 points 2 months ago

Also the Therapist: So anyways I started billin $300/h

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explodicle 7 points 2 months ago

Hey she's most people too

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iThinkDifferentThanU 7 points 2 months ago

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andros_rex 7 points 2 months ago

I just got a full time job and health insurance, after being without for a while.

My mental health is spectacular now. From the day I got my offer, I’ve felt cool as a cucumber. My dumbass ex also accidentally transferred me several thousand dollars, so just the feeling of having a nest egg and safety is like the world being lifted off my shoulders. Therapy never did anything even close.

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interesting 7 points 2 months ago

Money gives you the freedom to choose your job. If you have enough backup money, you will basically not let your employer bully/mobbing you, because you can resign. When we normal people talk about money, we don't mean billions; we need money that basically gives us freedom of choice for basic needs and helps us survive on bad days(2-3 years of unemployment)

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WoodScientist 5 points 2 months ago

Seriously. I'm someone that's had a background in engineering but has really struggled in office jobs due to what I now know to be AuDHD related. I'm currently exploring a mid career transition to K12 teaching. I've had prior experience in education, just not K12 classroom teaching. But I have real reason to believe this would work a lot better with my neurology.

But frankly, the only reason I'm able to explore this is because I have a partner, and we're fortunate enough to be able to get by on their income alone. We both need to be working for us to really make progress on our savings and retirement goals, and I owe it to them to do all I can to pull my own weight. So I can't just not work. But I have the luxury of being able to try to find work that works for me.

With as rocky as a career history as I have had? If I hadn't been with my partner, I would have probably had to make a living on my back or end up living on the street. I certainly never would have had the luxury of being able to take the time to explore alternate career paths. It's that bad.

I have struggled with very real career impediments from this. And having a bit of money has made all the difference. We're not rich. But just having enough to have a stable home situation and the ability to afford treatment is life changing.

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interesting 2 points 2 months ago

I 100% agree. If you have enough backup money, you will basically not let your employer bully/mobbing you, because you basically can resign.

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WoodScientist 3 points 2 months ago

It's honestly one of the best benefits of marriage if you can manage it. If you're fortunate enough to be able to keep your mandatory expenses below either of your individual incomes, you both gain tremendous leverage against employers. There is no more powerful negotiating tool than having the ability to walk away.

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interesting 0 points 2 months ago

100% agree. Otherwise, it is the cost of living, especially if one of the partners has more expenses.

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SuperApples 3 points 2 months ago

Can confirm. Once I became wealthy enough to quit my job I liked it a lot more, because I could speak my mind without fear. The last 6 months I worked was the easiest 6 months.

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interesting 1 point 2 months ago

100% agree. Now, I can't speak freely because I fear losing my job.

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TheStaffmaster 2 points 2 months ago

They want workers dependant. Ever since the end of slavery, big business has been trying to rules lawyer a back door into having it again.

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interesting 0 points 2 months ago

💯

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raze2012 6 points 2 months ago

Pretty much what I try to tell my parents. I don't need therapy. I know exactly what stresses me out and it's this extended fall from grace from saving up for my own house to taking up any gig in my ability to keep the lights on in the span of 3 years. The ladder was pulled up and they actively pushed me out of the floor.

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PRIMEcavitationfetishist 6 points 2 months ago

No amount of therapy makes a concentration camp fun after the acid wears off.

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Jax 5 points 2 months ago

Stable material conditions will improve life for the vast majority of people. The only ones it won't improve things for are people who shouldn't be living the way they do anyway.

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HuskerX 5 points 2 months ago

If more people have money, they can afford therapy. I see what she's doing. It's a shrinkspiracy!

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shojivr 0 points 2 months ago

or they should make theraphy more affordable, so its accesible to everyone

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this_1_is_mine 2 points 2 months ago

No it's people to stop ripping them off. We don't need more millionaires. We need our money to go further.

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PRIMEcavitationfetishist 2 points 2 months ago

Just to away with money.

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BarneyPiccolo 2 points 2 months ago

Even just $1000 would be extremely helpful to most Americans, but $10,000 would be transformative for MANY people.

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UltraGiGaGigantic 1 point 2 months ago

7.62x39 is about 42 cents a round on ammo seek. $1000 would be about 420 rounds not counting shipping.

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shojivr 1 point 2 months ago

well money gives you much more options

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TheStaffmaster 1 point 2 months ago

Fun fact: 100 Billion is a lot of money. That is only 10% of what Elon Musk is worth. If Elon gave every American (about 350 million last I checked), $1M, that would only put a dent in his wealth to the tune of just over 1/3rd of 1% of his wealth. These Uber wealthy need to shut up about needing more money. They have so much that they could loose an amount that would be literally life-changing to most of us and would barely notice it, if an accountant didn't say anything to them.

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schmalls 4 points 2 months ago

350 Million x 1 Million is 350 Trillion. So over 350 times his net worth. Each person in the US could get like 1 thousand for over 1/3 of his net worth.

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TheStaffmaster 1 point 2 months ago

Using British definitions I see. 1 billion is 1,000 million, and 1 trillion is 1,000 billion. If 1% of 1,000 is 10 then 1/3 of that would be 3.3333.

3.33 x log 9 would be 3,333,333,333.333(repeating)

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tropicanna 2 points 2 months ago

        345,000,000 US citizens
         X$1,000,000 per citizen
‐------------------------
$345,000,000,000,000

That's trillions. The log should have been 6+6 for your math if both the money and population were in the millions.

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UltraGiGaGigantic 1 point 2 months ago

Fiat currency and power. Two concepts that exists entirely in our minds. Two concepts that ruin the species. Maybe we arent intelligent afterall...

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An1m4L -1 points 2 months ago

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UnderpantsWeevil 4 points 2 months ago

I might argue that ambition negates happiness, whether or not you end up with a bunch of money. Ambitious people will go into a cycle of craving, such that achieving the next milestone on paper is more important than what that milestone materially represents.

You could make people like Zuckerberg or Musk or Bezos just as happy if they were in the VR simulations they so desperately want to force on other people, just so long as they were always advancing on some kind of infinite leader board. Their lizard-brains would respond to the flashing lights and happy noises just like some old grannie shoving quarters into a slot machine.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the (now largely archaic) Wall Street trading floor replicates a lot of the visuals and sounds of a casino, either. Bright lights, loud bells, people shouting and cheering and crying as numbers change on the big board. All totally decoupled from a materialist understanding of the economy. But deeply seductive and immediately rewarding to anyone preprogrammed to respond to the stimulus these environments create.

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JcbAzPx 2 points 2 months ago

It has diminishing returns after a certain point, but to quote the great Ol' Dirty Bastard, "Look here, more money, more problems, my ass."

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TheDemonBuer -14 points 2 months ago

I think that's at least partly because people don't understand money. We could give every American household a million bucks right now and I can guarantee you it would not solve their problems. In fact, it would almost certainly make them worse.

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theacharnian 8 points 2 months ago

What if instead you gave them Universal Basic Services? https://en.wikipedia.org/...

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TheDemonBuer 0 points 2 months ago

Bringing the costs of necessary goods and services down would help people significantly. But the opposite would happen if everybody had more money. And that's what I'm saying: more money isn't the answer, lower prices are the answer. Just giving people more money to try and keep up with ever increasing prices is a never-ending cycle that doesn't result in anyone actually being better off.

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WoodScientist 3 points 2 months ago

We're not talking about printing money and giving it away. We're talking about taxing and spending. This doesn't cause inflation as resources are redirected from the pet projects of the wealthy to the needs of ordinary people.

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theacharnian 1 point 2 months ago

I already know how inflation works thanks 😁

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explodicle 6 points 2 months ago

UBI is not theoretical. It's been tested numerous times, and the chalkboard arguments like this have been disproven. Look it up!

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AdolfSchmitler 6 points 2 months ago

You mean like when everyone got their stimulus checks during covid and a lot of people used it to pay down debt and bills?

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TheDemonBuer -1 points 2 months ago

The inflation rate in the US has been above the Fed's 2% target every year since 2022. That's by no means a result of the stimulus checks, but it is a result of relatively cheap money and growing incomes without a sufficient corresponding increase in the supply of goods and services.

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AdolfSchmitler 3 points 2 months ago

I'm not saying those caused inflation. The original idea was that just giving people money would make them worse off. So I pointed out a real world example where people were just given money and a lot of people used it responsibly. Yes some people bought meme stocks but that wasn't the norm.

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raze2012 2 points 2 months ago

relatively cheap money and growing incomes

where have you been the last 3 years? It's because assets have been outpacing inflation to the point where it's destablizing society. the American GDP is being carried by AI speculation. Not productivity: hype.

Meanwhile, compensation has only been outpacing inflation if you're an executive.

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TheDemonBuer 1 point 2 months ago

Median household income has increased about 18% since 2021. Source.

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raze2012 2 points 2 months ago

a million would eliminate my need to worry about next month's rent and let me sit down and properly create stuff without worry for a few years (more like a decade, but I'd want plenty of buffer room). Sure, it's easy to waste a milion and it won't fix all my demons. But it'd take most of my stressors away instantly.

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TheDemonBuer 1 point 2 months ago

The problem is if you get a million bucks, and everybody else gets a million bucks, demand for goods and services would skyrocket, taking prices with it. Essentially everything would get more expensive. Your rent would go up. A lot. Now, if only you got a million bucks, then, yeah, everything you said would apply, but while that would fix your problems, everyone else would be left in the lurch.

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raze2012 1 point 2 months ago

this post is talking about "your" problems. Not society's problems. Societal fixes need to be more subtle than "give everyone a million dollars". But giving one person 10k dollars can be life changing money.

We separate the two fields for a reason.

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workreform

@lemmy.world

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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.

Our Philosophies:

All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.

Our Goals

Higher wages for underpaid workers.
Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
Better and fewer working hours.
Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.

go to feed...

workreform

@lemmy.world

login for more options

A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.

Our Philosophies:

All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.

Our Goals

Higher wages for underpaid workers.
Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
Better and fewer working hours.
Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.

go to feed...