My girlfriend has ~800 hours in Lost Ark and ~500 hours in Guild Wars 2.
She always nags me about not finding her new games. I am glad we are compatible in more than one thing.
That post seems to be missing.
turbiegaming 7 points 3 years ago
God knows why some people are like that.
psudo 5 points 3 years ago
The 1980's for computes, but yeah very much outdated and it's past time that we accept a good game is appealing to everyone and it doesn't need to be pink and simple for a women to want to play it
Spellblade 35 points 3 years ago
I don't understand why they're surprised. Gaming has been mainstream for many many years now and women are half the population.
noodlejetski 18 points 3 years ago
first they took our jerbs, then they took our 'obbies, what's next, are they going to demand equal pay as well??!???!?!?!?11
noodlejetski 12 points 3 years ago
what can I say, I believe in equal opportunity
ElectronSoup 1 point 3 years ago
More Americans elide their haitches than brits, IME as brit that lived in the US for a while.
Zagaroth 7 points 3 years ago
Some of them have a sliver of an excuse, as from my childhood until I was at least in my late 20s, gaming was the realm of kids and geeks with no social life (according to populate opinion). And some people have trouble changing their understanding of the world after a certain point in their lives.
They probably also have a lot of other issues as that kind of mindset can affect a lot of other things, but that is the way some people are.
DarkThoughts 29 points 3 years ago
Just don't do news about Twitter reactions. It's nothing but outrage bait.
blindsight 15 points 3 years ago
True; this is lazy journalism.
That said, it's absolutely a real problem. Women aren't safe participating in many online spaces because a minority of misogynists make it a toxic space for them.
It starts young, too. Girls just don't show up when I make "gaming" spaces at school. They don't feel welcome.
I get why journalists go to Twitter, too. It's a lot easier to find and provide "receipts". Women who post about their experiences are dismissed regularly with statements like "I don't see it so you must be making it up," completely missing the point that they don't see it because women have been eliminated from these shared spaces already.
Exaggeration207 6 points 3 years ago
Is Kotaku's business model rage-baiting to generate clicks? Yes.
Is toxicity toward female gamers online a real problem? Also yes.
Some of my friends get annoyed when I take that stance, but it's absolutely possible for both statements to be true simultaneously. I want women to feel safe if they want to try online gaming, and it's counter-productive when sites like Kotaku constantly post fear-mongering articles about it rather than offer any solutions.
jabakobob 7 points 3 years ago
I used to browse twitter occasionally, but almost every tweet now has really low quality troll post underneath them. It feels like Twitter just consists of people who find everything outraging and they complain about everything.
It used to be that there were some interesting back and forths on Twitter, but in the last year or so all I see is outrage and insults.
TheYang 22 points 3 years ago
I... have to admit, other than Switch I'd have estimated somewhere around 20% to be honest.
But I like to be wrong here, cool that it's not that divided!
And I'm not sure it's a good sign that I didn't expect this.
Maybe Men are more vocal (possibly because women are less so, because of bad treatment), or maybe I'm just not as attentive...
alyaza 26 points 3 years ago
Maybe Men are more vocal (possibly because women are less so, because of bad treatment), or maybe I’m just not as attentive…
it's almost certain some of this disconnect is women just not participating in traditional gaming communities because they have to deal with dipshits constantly, yeah. i don't know if i'd characterize all of gaming as unusually misogynistic, but it's still probably really easy to find casual misogyny even in the best moderated gaming spaces--and a lot of gaming spaces aren't that well moderated either
psudo 14 points 3 years ago
There's also the fact that most people assume everyone else is a guy online, even if the users says otherwise. Given the misogyny you were mentioning I think a lot of the women who do stock around in gamer communities tend to not correct that assumption.
chaoticPuppies 2 points 3 years ago
Right. I'm a woman who as been gaming since I was about 7 years old. I have learned several strategies to make sure that I don't draw attention to that fact. It's always better if whoever I'm playing with assumes that I'm a dude.
Mantis 1 point 3 years ago
Yeah, I'm a woman in my thirties and I've played (on PC and console!) since I was five years old... learned a very, very long time ago that most people online would assume I was male and that it is often prudent not to correct them. So I don't. Twenty years of conditioning telling me to keep my head down. Now that I think about it, that's pretty sad.
I hope young girls nowadays feel more comfortable being open about their interests. Maybe I should be more open myself; I can take the hits if it makes things even a little bit easier for them.
TheYang 21 points 3 years ago
basically just elaborating on this twitter thread.
And because Kotaku decided to play a >1min video ad while i was trying to read:
tl;dr:
According to Circana's PlayerPulse:
47% of console video game players are female (+1% vs YA)
50% of PC video game players are female (+1% vs YA)
54% of mobile video game players are female (+1% vs YA)
41% of PS5s in the US are female owned
45% of Xbox Series consoles are female owned
52% of Swich consoles are female owned
50% of gaming PCs are female owned
sugar_in_your_tea -1 points 3 years ago
That doesn't really seem right to me, at least in the US. Most female gamers I know are either married (so any consoles would be joint owned) or play mobile games almost exclusively. Some play on PC, and very few play on any kind of console without being married. Or maybe they just don't talk about it like men do.
If that's accurate, I think it's awesome! I'm more interested in methodology though. I'd love for this to be true since it means we've finally destroyed the stigma against women playing video games.
raspberrybush 8 points 3 years ago
The methodology is discussed in the article.
Here is a tweet embedded in the article that explains how the data was collected.
While reflecting on our personal experience is useful it is important to acknowledge that our experiences are anecdotal and do not necessarily demonstrate truth.
lamentforicarus 2 points 3 years ago
Most gamers you know are married, but most gamers I know are not. Less people are getting married overall, so it statistically could make sense. Also, I've found that among my married friends, those who game tend to prerer different kinds of games. For instance I have a friend who PC games but her husband only plays the xbox. So the data probably has variations of that.
Spzi 4 points 3 years ago
Valid point, but even then, the two groups overlap.
The title seems to suggest that all Gamers were male. The article mostly talks about how that is not the case. It refers to these vocal gamers as 'some annoying dudes' within the text. Evidently, only some Gamers reacted poorly, but omitting the "some" makes for a more clickbaity=better headline.
The irony is, this headline strengthens the very stereotype the article aims to combat.
Krafty 17 points 3 years ago
Really? People are still acting like this? I remember back in the early 2000s when people were giving me crap for being a female gamer. The sad part is that I have been gaming probably before a lot of these new people complaining about female gamers have been born. I started back in the day with the Super NES. I also have a gaming PC, a Switch, and a Steam Deck. I also have various other consoles.
Spellblade 6 points 3 years ago
It's bizarre, isn't it. I'm a woman and I remember growing up with Pokémon, and Zelda and those 2 game series are extremely popular with women. A lot of women I know love puzzle games and were huge fans of Professor Layton on the ds when that was out. I even know a woman at my job who's into Elden Ring.
noodlejetski 2 points 3 years ago
I used to play a lot of PUBG on mobile. one of the most active players in our group was a girl and she was an absolute beast. doubly so if she got her hands on an M762.
Onihikage 6 points 3 years ago
That anyone ever acted like that is so insane to me, it doesn't even feel like it happened on the same planet. Among my middle/high school circle of friends through the 00's, not a single one of us would have ever given shit to anyone, male or female, for playing video games. To us, every new gamer we met was a potential new friend who spoke our favorite language. Then we graduate, go out into the world, look around on the internet, and hear stories that there exist complete fuckwads on this green earth trying to keep girls out of gaming?? Like... what??
crossmr 4 points 3 years ago
No Kotaku is acting like this. There was a distinct lack of evidence in their article
Some suggested the data is wrong or that the owner stats are skewed by moms buying consoles for boys
This isn't acting poorly, this is just questioning the methodology, which is a good idea, because a lot of these surveys are very poorly done or have obvious holes in them like that one. .
They later shared the methodology, but it still isn't clear what the exact questions were.
The rest of the article is the Kotaku writer speaking very vaguely about people. Was it 2? 200? 2000? who responded like this? You certainly wouldn't know from that article, but Kotaku isn't shy about painting all gamers with the same brush in the headline.
interolivary 5 points 3 years ago
They're "questioning the methodology" because they didn't like the answer. While, yes, being skeptical is good, this skepticism wouldn't even be happening if the result was what gAmErS wanted it to be
alyaza 4 points 3 years ago
yeah we don't have to pretend most of the unskewing here is being done with good intentions because it's not, lol. there is a real, unambiguous swath of capital-G Gamers who hate the idea of gaming being something women also participate in, and they do everything in their social power to raise a fuss about it.
nude 3 points 3 years ago
I dont know if its actually still happening or its just an easy headline that appeals to peoples stereotypes.
Gamers is such a broad label that encompasses so many different demographics. Im sure there is a tiny, vocal, weird subset that is convinced that gaming is for men, but its certainly not representative of the gamer label as a whole.
A headline having a go at "gamers" is easy, because its not really representative of anyone in particular. I have no doubt that some angsty teenage boys have these opinions, but thats a small group within the gamer label.
Spellblade 8 points 3 years ago
Unfortunately, most of the gaming communities I looked (4chan, gamefaqs, reddit, twitter) at had a significant portion of the comments refusing to believe it. Some were able to believe the switch data thanks to games like Animal Crossing and Zelda but significant amount thought these stats were from moms buying stuff for kids. But I will say there were plenty of comments pushing back against that.
nude 1 point 3 years ago
Not familiar with the gamefaqs community, but the others probably have a fairly circular Venn diagram between those angsty teen boys and gamers. Especially 4Chan. Twitter lately has been embracing the alt-right that fosters those angsty teen boys as well.
Maybe in wrong, I dont know. From my personal experience at least, which is being a male thats played video games since before the turn of the century, I dont see any of the people I play games with or have played games with over the last few decades holding these types of views. That may just be down to who I chose to play games with though.
My wife doesnt play much anymore, but she used to get the whole "woah a grill in my game?" Thing, but it was usually harmless and didnt go much further than those initial comments.
bstix 16 points 3 years ago
I read some digital market reports a few years back, which showed that something like 98% of all people between 13-18 were gaming. Obviously mostly casual games, but nevertheless paying consumers of games. More female than male by a close margin.
When I discussed it on another gaming forum they were really quick to dismiss casual games altogether, despite it being the very largest group. There's probably still a male majority in desktop first person shooters, which seemed to be the only "correct" gamers according to he kind of people following that kind of forum. Anyway, if I were to program a game I surely wouldn't aim at the "stereotypical" gamer. They're a minority with very high demands and very expensive gear. The whole stereotype is gatekept to the point where I don't want to participate neither as a gamer or as developer.
ShadowAether 1 point 3 years ago
Don't quote me on this bc I do not remember the source but I remember reading somewhere that if you included the whole gaming market, women were a clear majority because of mobile but many many mobile gamers did not self-identify as gamers which I think probably skews other surveys/studies targeted at "gamers"
Firefox 1 point 3 years ago
I have to wonder if some of it comes from the idea that casual games are generally a different audience than "core" games. Like someone playing candy crush on their phone is counted as someone who plays games, but I wouldn't lump them in with the kinda person that at least casually follows the industry and picks up a few new games for their PS5 every year or the person that is super active in the indie scene.
mayoaddict 15 points 3 years ago
My girlfriend has been literally using my PS5 more than me since I got it, gamer girls do exist and we should cherish them, not alienate them
storksforlegs 13 points 3 years ago
I am a woman person and I have TWO switches. This is a source of consternation for some reason?
Amiral_Poitou 16 points 3 years ago
Noooo they made the switch Political !!
Amiral_Poitou 1 point 3 years ago
Nooooo only BOYS should be GAMERS we are the most oppressed demographics!!
overlordror 12 points 3 years ago
I'm a 38-year-old woman who has been playing games since she was five years old. The myth that women don't play and enjoy games is a long-running one.
mizmoose 4 points 3 years ago
I've been playing games on computers since 1977, at that time non-video games. Although I did play Pong on tabletop box (a TV screen embedded in a table, with knobs on the table top) in a hotel, sometime before that, probably around 1975 or so.
UprisingVoltage 12 points 3 years ago
Toxic incel minority that makes a lot of noise. People have known it for years and nobody gives a damn. Videogames are made for every person to enjoy
tango_octogono 11 points 3 years ago
It isn't surprising, at least with my anecdotal experience, but still higher than I expected. Two girl friends of mine started to play lan parties with us since covid, and I know another that is completely obsessed with Valorant, and another that is equally obsessed with Football Manager.
I tried to find the original study and can't. The only source that everyone points to is this tweet by the executive director of Circana. Anyone knows where I can find it?
Spellblade 4 points 3 years ago
His company were the ones that did the survey, so I'd think it's likely that he's reporting it accurately. I wasn't able to find the data set for any of his company's surveys (I assume youd have to pay for it) but I did find this: https://www.statista.com/... and this https://www.pewresearch.org/.... Those two articles show that while men are more likely to play games, women are still playing them a lot, particularly young women. So Circana's player pulse survey, assuming it is being represented correctly isn't out of line with other research done on this topic. The gamers upset about this seem to just be out of touch.
tango_octogono 3 points 3 years ago
Thanks for the links, will read the second in a bit 👍
Yeah, it's better to learn not to care about what the Gamers™ say. They love to be angry
crossmr 1 point 3 years ago
so I'd think it's likely that he's reporting it accurately
That's not really a safe assumption to make. Even though they shared their methodology they don't seem to have shared the questions or the data. Misleading survey questions aren't uncommon.
Spellblade 1 point 3 years ago
I am saying he is reporting the data his company gives him correctly not that there aren't problems with the methodology. But even if there are issues with the methods here, Nintendo and Sony are reporting similar data as have previously done polls on the matter. And let's be completely honest here. They're most likely questioning the data because it doesn't agree with their anecdotal experiences talking to women. And this is likely because women are playing much different games than they are.
crossmr 1 point 3 years ago
He's sharing data, that his company collected, but there remains the question of what the data exactly is. I mean, I don't think any of us were born yesterday, and we've seen 'science' and 'studies' in journalism and how they'll massage statistics and use vague terms to make specific claims. My favourite of this was years ago a study about cosmetics, which includes things like sun cream, was used to paint the narrative that all Korean men were walking around with make-up. While make-up was a subset of cosmetics, when you actually looked at it, it didn't really support the claims they were making in the articles about it. For the most part I rarely trust anything like this being shared unless I can have a look at the whole package.
There are real studies and real science behind all these stories, but the journalists and middle men can rarely be trusted to present them in an unbiased manner that can be verified.
Taevas 10 points 3 years ago
Toxicity towards girls and women in gaming is a real problem, but this article doesn't really show that as it's just talking about random people from Twitter It's definitely nice so many women feel free to own consoles nowadays
imekon 10 points 3 years ago
I remember when they took a group photo of all the people involved with the racing games at Codemasters. Around 600 of us... someone commented, "who are all these people?". Well, programmers (AI/Phyisic/Audio/etc), Artists, Sound Engineers, Producers, HR...
And there were women as well. Yes, that's right, women develop games as well. There's one of my team.
Los 10 points 3 years ago
More information from a closer source: https://twitter.com/...
47% of console video game players are female (+1% vs YA)
50% of PC video game players are female (+1% vs YA)
54% of mobile video game players are female (+1% vs YA)
For these numbers quoted: n = 10,184
For people interested in PlayerPulse:
Frequency: Monthly
First Data Captured: Jan 1 2017
Methodology: Circana conducts a monthly survey of US active gamers over the age of 13. Surveys are fielded online, via PC and mobile devices, drawing from a nationally representative pool. Respondents qualify on the basis of having played games in the past month (30 days). To ensure consistency across samples and correct for any biases/errors, Circana implements a weighting system for each monthly dataset based on representative distributions of platform use and platform investment. Circana’s models are based on aggregated, cross-product samples, and are updated quarterly to account for market shifts.
Mat Piscatella - Executive Director & Video Game Industry Analyst at Circana (NPD).
rowinofwin 9 points 3 years ago
I am glad this trend is becoming better understood. A more diverse audience means more diverse stories being told, and while another MCU or Street Fighter is a perfectly good game to release a game targeting that more diverse audience will give more options for me. I typically play games like Risk of Rain, Skyrim, Creeper World, and so on, but I have also lost many hours to Viva Piñata, so I would love to see some more diversity in the games on offer.
dwindling7373 7 points 3 years ago
You do realize women like fighting games and the MCU, right?
That's the whole point of this statistic: the current gaming market is already palatable to everybody, unlike what your statement seem to misunderstand.
rustyspoon 1 point 3 years ago
Eh, just because lots of women are playing games doesn't mean they're catered to women.
Don't get me wrong, the industry's come a long way from every female character having 28DD's and videogame trailers being all about stoic badasses and explosions. I think the rise of indie games has been great for that. But there's an undeniable male-coded streak that still exists in marketing and in the industry, especially at the AAA level, and there's progress we can still make there.
realcaseyrollins 1 point 3 years ago
@rustyspoon @dwindling7373 The games appeal to women enough to play them. Nobody is forcing women to play games they don't like.
YuzuDrink 7 points 3 years ago
Among my personal friends, probably the same ratio of men and women are into Souls games. So like… yeah, women play games. And not just “lady-friendly” fare. As a non-woman, I freaking love Animal Crossing; meanwhile my wife has beaten most of the Souls games and I’ve given up on all of them. Anecdotal, but like… gamers like gaming, and I feel like these days trying to say anything about game preference and gender is just not really helpful.
ShadowAether 3 points 3 years ago
I remember seeing this article https://www.pcgamer.com/... and thinking it was funny how both men and women lie/hide stuff about gaming because of gender norms
tuxedosushi 7 points 3 years ago
No way! Women play video games?!?! 🤯🤯🤯
Scheissberg 6 points 3 years ago
Glad to see more women picking up gaming! Here's hoping that'll stop my wife from nagging that my gaming habits are purely a "men/boys" problem.
JordanfireStar 5 points 3 years ago
I've been trying to find the original study from Circana but all I can find are mentions of it, does anyone have the link to it?
HauntedOwlbear 2 points 3 years ago
Looks like these are choice stats from Cricana's forthcoming Market Dynamics In Gaming 2023 report which, annoyingly, doesn't yet appear to have actually been published yet. I suppose it'll be announced at https://www.circana.com/press-releases/ when it actually comes out.
vaguerant 1 point 3 years ago
My understanding is that Circana offers that data as a paid service. The business model is that they do market research then sell that data on to other businesses. Circana calls it "affordable" but doesn't put any numbers on that; you have to contact them to sign up. Because of that, you probably won't find a direct link to that info anywhere on the public web. The closest you'll probably find is that Mat Piscatella, Circana's Executive Director, tweeted the 2023 figures.
kommanditbolag 5 points 3 years ago
Wait, woman game? Gamer brain fried
DidacticDumbass 5 points 3 years ago
That is the most Onion headline I ever seen for real news. Kotaku? Yeah, the clickbait makes sense.
HisNoodlyServant 4 points 3 years ago
Woman like Pokemon as much as dudes. Also Nintendo's awful online experience is a plus for woman that don't want to be exposed to weird online dudes.
InsertCocktails 3 points 3 years ago
I'm just waiting for the YouTube react series. Gamers go apoplectic over statistics.
LollerCorleone 3 points 3 years ago
Of course gamer bros are salty about this!
lamentforicarus 1 point 3 years ago
Not just that but the Switch has a lot of lovely indie games that are popular among women (Gris, Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion, Spiritfarer, Cult of the Lamb). Also Hades, but everyone likes Hades.
thanks for using Leebra!
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Why are people so stuck in the 1950s?
Glad to have woman playing. To paraphrase Iwata (Nintendo), gaming should be fun for everyone
Edit: "women" because I have butter fingers
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