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episcopalian@lemmy.ml — The Episcopal Church & Anglicanism

14 days ago by TheCynicalSaint [they/them, he/him] to c/newcommunities

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I've created !episcopalian@lemmy.ml for discussion around The Episcopal Church, Anglicanism, liturgy, and parish life.

Whether you pray the Daily Office, have questions about the Book of Common Prayer and Episcopal theology, or are just looking for an affirming religious community on Lemmy, you're welcome to join us there.

This community is not directly affiliated with The Episcopal Church or any Diocese or Parish

aaa999 7 points 14 days ago

church

.ml

hmm

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crayons_to_chaos 7 points 14 days ago

Hail Satan of course, but welcome I guess.

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SarahValentine -6 points 14 days ago

Dear religion: No. Sincerely, consensus reality.

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the_fuckler 1 point 14 days ago

Not very inclusive. Do episcopals have some sort of stigma I'm unaware of?

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Vespair 8 points 14 days ago

I think this is a strange version of inclusiveness, tbh.

I've always believed you shouldn't judge or exclude somebody for their intrinsic qualities - their race, ethnicity, height, sexuality, physical ableness, etc. And that you should judge people based on their character - the words the say, the principles they stand by, where they take action in the world.

Somewhere down the line we started acting like religious choice was somehow part of the former, but let me be clear, it is very much part of the latter.

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the_fuckler -2 points 14 days ago

To my knowledge religious status is protected by law from discrimination in the US to the same extent all those others are? Laws are a poor measure of morality but it's saving the jobs of women who need to wear religious garments in professional settings so it seems moral.

But looking at that church's Wikipedia page it looks like they're one of the only denominations to be institutionally changing to include LGBTQ. Seems a little curmudgeonly to say they're outside the scope of inclusion, especially given the resounding victories progressivism is having in the united states lately

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Vespair 8 points 14 days ago

I think you're conflating a few related but importantly distinct things.

First off, as you said, legality is not morality, and this is important. In regards to discrimination laws, yes religious observation should be covered, but this is because the evils of religion, not despite them. Observation is effectively non-optional for certain groups, and this only increases as the relative power of the individuals in question reduces. If there was no coercion being done to dress women in hijab and it was always entirely a personal choice, maybe the situation would be different, but it isn't and we must deal with and legislate towards our reality, not a sterile ideal. So, imo, the need for religious protections here is about respecting victims and the disempowered, not about respecting religion.

As for the Episcopal stance on LGBTQ+ rights and causes, that's cool, but entirely non-sequitur. Whether they believe gay people deserve rights and whether they believe human life is dictated by some kind of Magic Sky Fairy are two separate topics. That they get one right does not suggest that they don't get the other wrong, or that there are no consequences of those beliefs. They are not absolved their intellectual responsibility just because they got some of the earlier questions on the test right. Frankly I see this as a bit of whataboutism kind of akin to saying "look I know he still drives drunk but he's wearing his seatbelt unlike those other drunk drivers!"

But I feel the need at this point to clarify: I am not trying to express that Episcopals or any kind of religious people are or should be unwelcome here on Lemmy or anywhere else. My point is only that while yes there are some specifics reasons for their inclusion in legal inclusivity, religion is still ultimately a choice and sign of character rather than an intrinsic quality that we should avoid stepping on.

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SarahValentine 1 point 13 days ago

Do episcopals make claims of a supernatural sort in opposition to confirmed facts and consensus reality? Yes? Then they're part of the problem.

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TheCynicalSaint 1 point 13 days ago

Have you ever actually been to an Episcopal Church? It's laughably obvious you haven't. Episcopalians believe in science, I believe in science, also having a relationship with spirituality isn't a sin.

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SarahValentine -1 points 13 days ago

Good of you to show up and talk shit about.... one of the many things I mentioned. Well done. Religion is still cancer on society.

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