Opinions on Niri (and scrollable window managers)?

6 days ago by SoftBun to c/linux

I've been using tiling WMs for some years now (mostly sway, but also tested cosmic a bit). I really love them: you theme workspaces and organize everything into them, and no window is ever hidden, which makes finding them trivial. But the cost of having every window displayed in that workspace is that they start getting way too small when you have a lot of them. This is usually not a big deal, since you can create tabs or just open new generic workspaces.

But what has been bugging me are windows that need to be big, otherwise they are unusable (like gimp, kdenlive, libreoffice, sometimes firefox). Tabbing them in fullscreen messes with the workspace layout, and if you dedicate an entire generic workspace for them, you surely will lose it.

That's where scrollable WMs enter the scene. They respect window sizes at the cost of their visibility.

niri.gif

NGL, this is not a good idea. It's easy to lose windows that are off-screen. But what if you only use it sometimes? Think of it as a regular tiling WM, but when you need it, it creates more space off-screen.

To achieve this, I've been using Niri with the tilemod script. It helps make Niri behave more like a regular tiling.

tilemod.gif

It's been a good experience over the last week. My workflow is mostly unchanged, but when I need to work with a window in fullscreen, it's always a relief that I'm using Niri.

Has anyone else here tried scrollables? I'm in this excitement phase so I want to read more about it (even from people who tried and didn't like them) :)

a14o 23 points 6 days ago

I use Niri. It just feels right to me, having lots of space to stick windows (scroll horizontally, switch workspaces vertically).

It takes some getting used to, but tthe overview is helpful, and here's always the window switcher if you "lost" a window. But what really changed the game for me were special "focus-or-spawn" keybindings with nirius, e.g. when I press Meta+B my browser opens, or if it is already open it is focused.

If you only want to use scrolling for some workspaces, you can have a look at Umbriel. It looks really interesting, I haven't had time to try it out.

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SoftBun 3 points 6 days ago

“focus-or-spawn”

Interesting. I haven’t had trouble finding windows so far, but I set up the niri_search_window script from niri_tweaks as mod+tab just in case I need it.

Umbriel

Cool! I’ll take a look at it, thanks!

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KindaABigDyl 15 points 6 days ago

I freaking love niri

It’s easy to lose windows that are off-screen

By default. They should really change the defaults, but in config, you can make it so if there is a window to the side hidden, a piece is always visible.

It's called struts.

layout {
    ...
    struts {
         left 16
         right 16
     }
}

It ensures a piece of the window is always visible

Plus with a bar like from QuickShell or WayBar you can see all open windows anyway up there.

To achieve this, I’ve been using Niri with the tilemod script. It helps make Niri behave more like a regular tiling.

The things you show in the gif are already possible with niri via Super + [ and Super + ] (default bindings) for placing into columns

It has limitations, but everything in the gif at least is already there. Niri actually has quite a bit of support for base tiling.

I can't go back to non-scrolling ever. I even use a similar setup on my work machine (a Mac) via PaperWM.spoon, tho it isn't as well integrated (bc it's a mac and you're forcing it to not be a mac)

EDIT: One tiling feature of niri I love is that with Super + W you can switch to a stacked mode like in a tiler. For KiCAD PCB editing, you have three windows - project, schematic, and pcb. It is essential that at the very least the project tab be stacked behind and out of the way imo, since there is no minimize

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SoftBun 3 points 6 days ago

The things you show in the gif are already possible with niri via Super + [ and Super + ] (default bindings) for placing into columns

Yup! I know about it. The script just makes it automaticaly:

  • If there are fewer than N (default 2) windows in the focused column, it adds a new one there. Otherwise, it creates a new column.
  • It also auto-fullscreens a window if it’s the only one in the workspace.

One tiling feature of niri I love is that with Super + W you can switch to a stacked mode like in a tiler.

I use it for my tens of freetube windows :)

I can’t go back to non-scrolling ever.

Wow! For how long have you been using scrollers?

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KindaABigDyl 2 points 5 days ago

Wow! For how long have you been using scrollers?

Probably a over a year now I think

That workflow just really clicked for me.

I also still use multiple desktops with the scrolling

EDIT: And before that I used Hyperland after switching to Wayland. Before Wayland I had used i3 for several years

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Zangoose 7 points 6 days ago

I've been using Niri for a little under a year now on both my desktop and laptop, I like it a lot compared to regular tiling window managers (I used QTile for 2-3 years on my desktop and Hyprland on my laptop for about a year until I found out about vaxry).

Personally, I usually group my workspaces by app category (e.g. browser, system-related, chat windows, games, etc.) which works really well with a scrolling model since you can have multiple "fullscreen" apps per workspace, or a fullscreen apps and half-width app like a file explorer for dragging files over to the main app. It also works well for me since I am unlikely to have more than 2-3 full-width apps in the same category.

I like organizing things that way because it makes my hotkeys consistent for the thing I'm trying to do. For example, if I have a chat window open, my hotkey to get there will always be meta+3 regardless of what app it is and how many other chat apps I have open.

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Corngood 6 points 6 days ago

Anyone using it with multiple screens? I haven't tried it out because it didn't look like it would be great for that.

I want something really lightweight where I can assign things to workspaces and then pull workspaces easily onto any one of my screens.

XMonad was my favourite, but I've moved to Sway and I've got it set up pretty well now. Workspaces still have a home screen so it's a bit more clunky to move them around between screens.

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solarspark 5 points 5 days ago

From my experience niri works well.

niri dank material shell (dms) is nice for that too. But yeah if you want something super lightweight you may just want to just config base niri yourself.

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Seene 3 points 5 days ago

I use it and I like it. For me, I use a second monitor just to keep an app open constantly so I can use my main monitor for the interactive stuff. If I'm feeling fancy I make a second workspace on the second monitor to keep a split screen of my music player and messaging app.

I don't remember the default way that workspaces are organized with multiple screens, but for me I prefer each screen to have their own workspaces, and I use them sparingly and that works great for me.

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pech 3 points 5 days ago

I have it on my 3:2 laptop that I occasionally plug into my 21:9 monitor and it generally just works; though the trackpad navigation is what really makes it for me.

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ColdWater 5 points 4 days ago

I'm using Niri daily for 2 months now and it's pretty good, especially using it with laptop much better than normal DE or WM

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wesker 5 points 6 days ago

I've been trying to like them for the last year since migrating to wayland, but I really don't. I'm about to go back to herbstluftwm.

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sudoer777 5 points 5 days ago

Niri + Noctalia FTW

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cojo5 3 points 4 days ago

I used sway with configured dots for the better part of a year, and as soon as I tried out noctalia + niri, I switched basically immediately

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thingsiplay 4 points 6 days ago

Me also a tiling guy, and since a few years I switched to KDE and use an extension called Krohnkite to tile windows automatically. I personally don't like the idea of endless scrollable desktops. To get a taste, I tried a scrollable window manager extension for KDE, just to see if the workflow would click with me. To me it doesn't feel different from (classic) floating style of managing windows. Why? Because I have to scroll and search for the window.

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SoftBun 4 points 6 days ago

To me it doesn’t feel different from (classic) floating style of managing windows. Why? Because I have to scroll and search for the window.

This is precisely the same feeling I had when I first tested Niri. It only changed once I started treating it as a tiling that sometimes expands when needed.

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thingsiplay 3 points 6 days ago

I have to say, I would like to have a "layout" that expends like a scrollable type. I mean by layout the tiling logic (Quarter, Monacle, BTree and so on). I think there is a use case for having that, but I don't want to lose the tiling worklow as it is right now. You know what, I got curious again and will try that extension again.

Edit: Sadly it was bugged for me. (Edit in Edit: Turns out Karousel extension does not support multi monitor.) Had to use the TTY (Ctrl+Alt+F2) to disable that Karousel extension. I remember when it worked, not sure what happened. Seems to dislike something about my current setup. I'm not ready to switch to an entire different window manager yet, but I'm also quiet happy anyway. Maybe its because I have two screens now, and it does not support multiple screens.

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SoftBun 2 points 6 days ago

Sadly it was bugged for me. Had to use the TTY (Ctrl+Alt+F2) to disable that Karousel extension.

Ouch. Sorry about that :(

I’m not ready to switch to an entire different window manager yet, but I’m also quiet happy anyway.

100% fair. I only changed because my last setup was annoying me

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thingsiplay 2 points 5 days ago

Hey, I just wanted report that the extension Karousel in KDE works only with single monitor. It was bugged because it does not support multi monitor, as I thought. I'm trying it out now and wanted mention this here in case someone wants to use it too. How do you deal with if you need all windows appear on a single screen at the same time? In example for certain use cases I want to split in a quarter layout. Does Niri support two windows tiled bottom half and top half?

[ ] 
[ ] 

Edit: Found shortcuts that enable this in Karousel. Hmm, I start digging this now. I really don't want to switch off KDE, but if I do, Niri might be a contender as next option. Need to see if this workflow works for me. :-)

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degen 3 points 6 days ago

I've used it ever since riverwm had its 0.4 update or whatever it was.

Someone described it as objectively better than i3-like tilling because every window can be full size or tiled more traditionally with the same ergonomics, and they were right.

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erock 1 point 5 days ago

Hmm but sway can do full screen apps in a workspace too with tabs. I think the title of the window is arguably more important than showing a little piece of the window when navigating

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degen 1 point 5 days ago

Is that navigated with the same commands as focus window up/down/etc, not a separate tab command? I've used sway more recently than i3, but it's been a while.

And for me it's not about showing a piece of the window necessarily, but how it can feel like it gives you an invisible 20% extra on either side of your monitor. It's a lot like how tiling wms in general feel like they unlock something in laptops. Kinda hard to explain.

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erock 1 point 5 days ago

Yes, mod+arrow in tabbed mode which is the same for focusing in tile mode. It feels very ergonomic

I use tabbed mode for my laptop as well because of limited screen real estate.

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MonkderVierte 3 points 6 days ago

Good on touchscreen devices. Elsewhere, not my cup of wm.

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lordziv 3 points 5 days ago

Every time I try tiling window managers, I get disappointed by the fact that I cannot minimize windows. I guess it's 20 years of Windows usage that has ingrained it into me but I like hiding windows I don't currently need open. Apparently this goes against the whole philosophy tho lol

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TruePe4rl 4 points 5 days ago

Use workspaces. At least that's how I deal with it. I do see the problem, when you have no other solution and run out of all the space across all workspaces. I just never reached that extreme.

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someonesmall 3 points 4 days ago

In sway / i3 you can switch to tabbed layout (MOD+W) which shows "browser tabs" for all open windows

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SoftBun 2 points 5 days ago

If i'm not wrong, Cosmic allows you to minimize windows even in tiling mode

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lordziv 2 points 4 days ago

I did try cosmic for a couple of weeks but found it a little lacking in configuration options. Granted this was over 6 months ago so I'm sure it has come along since then

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juipeltje 2 points 6 days ago

I had no idea these scripts existed, that's awesome and i'll have to take a look at tilemod in particular. I've tried niri a bunch of times but similar to you i feel like it's too easy to lose windows. Not just on the same workspace, but i also wish other workspaces could be numbered so you can keep track of which workspaces have which windows on them. I know you're supposed to use the overview for that, but i'm still not used to that type of workflow.

Another thing i would like is to have a more dynamic tiler style option where at the very least you can set it to have a window take up the full screen when it's the only one on the workspace, and then split it side by side when two or more windows are opened. Mangowc's scrolling layout supports this, and upstream niri could probably add this too, but it looks like this tilemod script can do the same thing.

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SoftBun 3 points 6 days ago

i also wish other workspaces could be numbered so you can keep track of which workspaces have which windows on them

Do you mean static workspaces? You can configure something like that.

By default, Niri uses dynamic workspaces (they are deleted when empty), but you can create persistent ones.

My config file has this:

// Declare persistent workspaces
workspace "1"
workspace "2"
workspace "3"
workspace "4"

This means workspaces 1 to 4 will always exist, even if they are empty. If I open something in workspace 3, it stays in 3 no matter what.

Now, if you do something like this:

// Declare persistent workspaces
workspace "1"
workspace "2"
workspace "3"
workspace "4"
workspace "5"
workspace "6"
workspace "7"
workspace "8"
workspace "9"
workspace "10"

Then 10 workspaces will always be present (probably the only ones you’ll use). In this way, it may be easier to keep track of where your windows are.

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juipeltje 2 points 5 days ago

Hmm, i might have to give this a try. One thing i'm wondering though is will this also allow you to have the workspaces numbered on something like waybar? Right now for my niri config i'm just using icons to indicate how many workspaces are open and which one is focused, but i'm not using numbers right now because of the workspaces not being persistent

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SoftBun 1 point 5 days ago

I think they are numbered by default in waybar

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juipeltje 2 points 4 days ago

Yeah i think that's right, i just wanted to confirm that it works with niri when using persistent workspaces, cause i prefer to have them numbered and that's what i use for my other compositors, but niri has always been an exception because of this issue.

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Stiltonfondu 2 points 4 days ago

This is my workflow too

Works on the laptop screen or docked on my ultrawide

Named workspaces and window rules to open application windows on a specific workspace

Then I bind super + 1 - 0 to switch between them

1 terminals 2 browsers 3 code 4 slack 5 teams (ugh) 6 discord 7 xfreerdp 8 empty 9 empty 0 keepassxc

When I boot up everything opens in the same place

The overview feature is great in Niri

I also use noctalia mainly for a bar at the top

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bacon_pdp 1 point 5 days ago

Too much crap. My i3 configuration could be these 2 lines:

set penguin key as the mod

set $mod Mod4

Make Stacking the default

workspace_layout tabbed

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Skullgrid 1 point 6 days ago

I've worded it like shit before, but :

Standalone WMs are basically Gnome3 for neckbeards.

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SoftBun 5 points 6 days ago

haha, not false :) I mean, in the end, I think Linux is mostly for neckbeards.

I started using window managers to reduce resource usage (I had a really shitty PC back then) and to stay organized. It worked for both. I really don’t like how much time you have to invest in configuring them (which is why I tried cosmic, it’s much easier to set up), but I think it’s worth it in the end.

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a14o 1 point 6 days ago

What do you mean by that?

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Skullgrid 2 points 6 days ago

well, here's the shitposty thread I made last time I tried to voice the opinion and got got by gotchas in terminology :

https://lemmy.world/...

Basically, some people are making interfaces for the operating systems that only have a windows manager, and isn’t a complete desktop environment, so it’s basically one step above a terminal. Things like i3 or dwm, as opposed to more fleshed out things like KDE or Gnome.

Gnome3 basically encourages the user to launch their programs as fullscreen things and scroll between them. The WM based UIs also do this, but call it “desktops” and tile the windows you have in each desktop.

I went through a craze of shoving different ones into VMs and felt that things like i3 and dwm behave similarly to the way I dislike Gnome3.

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Zangoose 2 points 6 days ago

I feel like that's by design. Tiling WMs generally make 2 assumptions and if they aren't true for you then you're probably better off with a regular desktop:

  • Most apps you use are one window and are either fullscreen or splitscreen with another app.
  • You have a lot of different Fullscreen apps open at once

For a lot of people that makes sense because Workspace-based WMs let you switch between full screen apps a lot quicker than pressing alt-tab 10 times. e.g. when I'm doing work I'll usually have these Fullscreen windows open:

  • browser
  • chat app (teams/outlook at work, discord/matrix at home)
  • IDE
  • window for whatever I'm testing/working on
  • miscellaneous things (file explorers, random text files, etc. which can all be splitscreen)

For me at least, every extra second it takes me to move between apps snowballs because I have to pause my thought just to find the app I'm looking for in the alt tab menu or the task bar

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Skullgrid 3 points 5 days ago

Yeah, it doesn't vibe with me because I'm constantly moving windows from one place to another, comparing shit side by side and needing one thing as an edit then as a reference, keeping some things smaller and etc. I am starting to be maybe interested in trying out transparancy in my dropdown console and maybe a launcher that's more central instead of "windows like" coming in from the bottom left. But I like my taskbars, especially with having different ones for different physical monitors.

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