I taught a non-techie friend how to install Linux Mint on a virtual machine with VMware. He had fun. He even learned how to install Brave through the CLI.
Granted, he shouldn't have to do that but that isn't Mint's fault whatsoever. Brave should have the option like Vivaldi to download a DEB and install it there.
Is it an unrealistic goal to want to eventually run a computer with coreboot and a more cybersecurity heavy emphasis?
No, its not unrealistic. However, what I think is unfair to yourself is to attempt this before knowing what you are doing. Think of it like learning to draw. You have good taste, and you see art you like, and want to do it too. Yet your personal skill level, you finger dexterity, isn't yet there to be able to make the art you can visualize in your mind.
If a task is too hard, or to complex, then there must exist a smaller, easier task to accomplish first. Coreboot specifically is an extremely low hardware/firmware level system, but you don't feel confidant in installing a working desktop OS. You have aspirations for cyber security, as well. Find the smaller, and easier task first. Get Debian/Ubuntu working in a VM. Then look at what software is installed, and read about it. If you want to eventually pursue security projects, setup a LAMP stack. If that too hard, just get the A in LAMP. If that's too hard, find out why. What do you know, what do you not know? It's machines all the way down, and its an extremely small chance you are the first person with a problem. Don't worry about "correctness" and focus on the learning experience.
It is 100% achievable, but it is a lot of time. I started with it because I wanted to run a game server for myself. It's a couple of decades later, and I still have a massive amount to learn.
Further rabbit-holing and forum-crawling convinced me that I needed to download Arch or else it simply “wasn’t worth it”, which is completely wrong in itself.
Unfortunately Arch appeals to, and is loved by, a specific kind of user. They aren't really interested in being more newbie friendly, which is totally fine. Debian, and by extension Mint, actively trying to help new people use the software, and is very newbie friendly. Most people asking for help use these types, and thus a lot of the helpful guides use these as a base. OpenSuse also does a very good job too, but it is pretty different than Debian in how it is structured, so not all guides written for Debian will work the same way. When you know about how different Linux ecosystems work, the less which specific distro you are using matters. So don't worry too much about picking the "right" one.
Initially I started out learning LaTeX to make math worksheets for my tutees...
This is the best way, find something you want to do, and learn how to do it. Follow the rabbit holes! You never really know where they go.
Just a sidenote: LAMP is a traditional webserver stack. L = Linux, A = Apache (web server), M = MySQL (database), P = PHP (or Perl or Python, depending on who you ask—some server-side programming language, anyway). So it might not be germane to your use case.
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Honestly Arch is not that complicated. But it does require you to understand the basics and be at least a little familiar with Linux type systems. Something like LFS is much much more complicated then arch.
Even though Arch is very well documented, it's not really accessible to newcomers. The documentation assumes that you know the basics, so if you don't, you're screwed. Mint, Pop! and Debian, to some extent, are much more accessible.
As an absolute noob, I can tell you this is not the case for Arch based images though. I've used Manjaro and now settled on Crystal Linux. Both Arch based. They are as easy as any other distro, even more than Debian.
Debian, in their philosophy, provides a pretty bare ones image, and you have to add everything yourself. They don't even ship Flatpak for example.
Pop! Has an archaic Gnome desktop but an otherwise excellent system.
I don't like Mint's desktop environment, but that's very subjective, so no cons there.
@warmaster @BestBouclettes how is pop archaic? They are based on ubuntu LTS and add their custom theme along with tiling. Being based on LTS means it isnt the latest, i dont think archaic is the best description.
Moreover they are soon coming out with their own DE replacing the current plugin for gnome. If that is distro independent, should overcome the LTS limitation.
I'm sorry if I offended you, I shouldn't have used adjectives in my choice of words. But I didn't mean to say POP was archaic, I wanted to say their Gnome desktop was. For me, a subjective, personal view, the difference between 42 and 44 is very noticeable. I'm using Arch, and I got really anxious seeing Ubuntu getting a newer Gnome before Arch. I want the latest DE version as soon as possible, as it vastly impacts my gaming and working experience. FSR, Fractional Scaling, VRR, HDR, Color management, etc. As soon as there's some progress on that, I want it for yesterday.
pop has to wait for Ubuntu, who has to wait for Debian. It will never satisfy my personal needs. My only other choice would be Gentoo, another rolling release.
Mint is great. I recently switched fully to Linux and mint feels comfortable
You definitely don't need Coreboot. Try Linux Mint to start with, and just use your computer as you normally would. Getting comfortable with how Linux does things is something you need to learn before taking the next steps. No one became a Linux guru by reading the "Linux manual" front to back. I picked up almost all of my Linux knowledge on-the-fly because I broke something or because I wanted to do something.
Also, if all you want is better cybersecurity, you'll make a huge leap just by picking any Linux distro. Save Coreboot, full disk encryption, etc for at least a few months down the road when you're picking a new distro and have a better idea of what you want to do differently.
Don't use regular Arch if you're struggling. There are some arch-based distros that are more user friendly, though. Like EndeavourOS or ArchMan. Manjaro can be good too but there are legitimate problems with how the project is run.
I was having graphics driver problems in Ubuntu-based distros until I tried Linux Mint.
If you get crashes right before or after login, it's often a (Nvidia) graphics issue. To get around this, you could use nomodeset in the Grub menu to get a successful first boot where you can then install the proprietary drivers.
Look at sections 4 and especially 5 on this page
Also, here is that info in a tutorial format
Also, you may want to set the Desktop Environment to Xorg or X11 (same thing) if Wayland is causing you problems. It's older, but in some cases more efficient and less experimental. Check out the section: Switching desktop environments using a graphical user interface. It should look similar to the pictures. And notice that the "gear" icon may not appear until you select a user.
If your problem is different than this, open a support ticket in the discord or forums of the distro you're using. Linux Mint has a great system for this on Discord.
Don’t use regular Arch if you’re struggling. There are some arch-based distros that are more user friendly, though. Like EndeavourOS or ArchMan.
Yeah, this 100%. Honestly, plain Arch isn't all that hard to use. I'd argue it's probably easier in a lot of ways compared to more mainstream distros...once you have it setup that is. Arch isn't hard, Arch SETUP is hard, so having downstream distros do the hardest part of the work for you is absolutely key to a good experience if you're just starting out.
Oh and lastly, here is a link to a thread of Linux beginner advice that I think is good. I have a nice response there that is pretty detailed. It's in the Marxist lemmy though. https://lemmygrad.ml/post/735631
You're on the right track! That feeling of understanding less is normal - and good news is that it isn't true. You understand more than you did before - but now you also know of some other things you don't know about yet. This is good and exciting! I wish I were in your shoes so I could experience this for the first time again.
I would recommend Fedora Silverblue 38. It is an immutable OS, meaning that it is impossible to break it to the point where it doesn't work. Since the root file system is read only, like a mobile OS, you would be hard pressed to actually break it. Don't worry though, most graphical applications are available as flatpaks on Flathub. Flathub is integrated with the app store in Fedora 38, no need to use the terminal. For terminal applications you want to use there are toolboxes, which are little mini fedora containers that have access to your home directory and some other integrations. Also Fedora Silverblue is easy to install and works with most hardware.
Arch is a bad distro for newbies. Go find an ISO for Kubuntu and install that. The install wizard is idiot-proof. I use KDE-based distros like Kubuntu even though I'm a fairly advanced user so don't view it as some kind of failure. There's no virtue in using more complicated stuff. Get comfortable with the easier distros first.
One word: Mint
It's pretty streamlined, more reliable than some newer trendy Ubuntu spin offs, and still powered at it's core by the same old kernal that even the "advanced" distros use.
I applaud you for trying Arch, and if you can figure it out while learning Linux in general that's a great achievement, but it's overly complicated and I personally wouldn't reccemend it to anyone starting out (or even a most experienced users unless they had a particular need for it's features).
If you continuously get issues across all distros in VMs a live environment might also be worth checking out (live being booted off external media without an install).
Ultimately, though if Linux does mess with your workflow, then use what works best for you. Sure I like Linux, but if it breaks what you need and Windows or Mac doesn't then use what works best for you. But, there's a saying "the more the island of my knowledge grows the greater the shore of my ignorance". The more you learn the more that you realized how little you know. It's always the case for anybody who's either not an extreme expert or a narcissistic, but it's also a great motivator to keep learning.
Next time you decide to attempt Arch, you could try the included install script.
But for now I would also suggest starting out with something more simple, such as Linux Mint or Ubuntu LTS.
I’d recommend mint just because snaps add another layer of complexity for apps right now.
i wouldn't say that it's unrealistic.
The "Problem" is however, that there are a gazillion different approaches to everything. And everyone will tell you their method and maybe even badmouth other peoples methods... That way you don't really know what to do anymore.
Imho, don't install them in a VM. Get yourself a new cheap SSD. Unplug the one with windows on it and just install a well-known Linux distro that has a big open community on your PC.
If you want something Arch-based: I'd highly recommend you Garuda-Linux. Don't get scared off by it's ..... flashy default looks. This can be changed very easily. But they have one of the most welcomming and helpful communities i have ever witnessed. They aren't really here or on reddit, but rather have their own forum.
This thing will give you everything you need to start. And if something breaks, it does automatic snapshots of your system everytime you install a new package. So if something breaks, you turn off...turn on....and in the boot menu you'll find your snapshots. Pick the last working one. and that's it. Good to go again.
But these are just my 2 cents..
It sounds as if OP was beyond the stage of playing inside a live-boot.... plus you'll never get to really get a feel for a distro if you can't even install new packages properly.
You can install the os to a thumb drive too. Performance will be meh but it’s fine for testing and can be brought with you while out and about
Yes, with the caveat that it could overwrite the Grub menu/boot partitions of other Linux installs on the device. I'd disconnect all disks with working Linux partitions and possibly all Windows ones too while installing to USB from a Live USB.
If I were you I would start by using standard Ubuntu desktop. In my experience it tends to be the most reliable, easy to install, least technical and does alot of stuff behind the scenes that others don't. A simple thing like plugging in a printer works very well in Ubuntu but is a nightmare on opensuse.
If you still run into issues then start to troubleshoot, especially if you are installing on bare metal and not a VM. Often the most common issues are WiFi drivers and graphics drivers. This is because these companies often don't make their code available so other Devs have to reverse engineer their own code and it's not included in the kernel. It has you need installed after installation. If your pc has an ethernet port or ethernet adapter I HIGHLY recommend using that when installing.
In Ubuntu open the search page and type "drivers" and it will show you an option to install additional drivers. Click that and it should detect what hardware you have and give you the choice to tick a box and install those drivers. Your must be connected to the internet via ethernet for this to work. After successful installation, reboot and the WiFi/graphics card should work.
If you have issues Google it an Ubuntu normally has TONS of answers.
My only issue with this is that the Ubuntu desktop is really buggy right now. 23.04 has plenty of odd issues like the file browser not showing the correct file as deleted, instead making it look like another random one in the same directory got deleted. But refreshing the file browser corrects the graphical issue. But due to many little paper cuts like that I'd shy away from recommending Ubuntu.
I'd always recommend the LTS. 23.04 is bleeding edge and advertised as buggy by Canonical. Get 22.04 and you'll have zero issues. It's rock solid.
If you want to use the Arch ecosystem but have trouble getting there, start with Manjaro. It handles the hardware extremely well. I install it for my friends and rellies because I like the Arch tools, but I don't want the cutting edge issues of pure Arch. I haven't had very many issues to fix with it on over a dozen installs running for as long as 5 or 6 years now.
I second this. Manjaro has enabled me to be far more successful in my Linux endeavors. The Arch package system and Arch User Repository are amazing and I've been able to get so many pieces of software running without too many headaches.
I have hosed so many installs over the past 20 or so years that it's impossible for me to guess a number. It's part of the learning process. Just keep at it and you'll get there.
I've been using GNU/Linux and similar systems on-and-off since the late '90s. I have no patience for debugging driver problems or anything else anymore.
I'm typing this on a desktop running Pop!_OS ... where I have spent exactly no time debugging driver problems or anything else.
It just freakin' works.
Mind you, my use case is pretty straightforward. The software I use is pretty much:
Full-disk encryption just works out of the box. Steam games are sometimes a little hinky and I have to pull out my old Unix knowledge and run commands like killall pressure-vessel to shut down borked Steam stuff.
Here are some things I never do:
I've been in your shoes a few months ago. I tried a few distros in VMs and ended up using OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. It comes with different GUIs and I decided for KDE. As a beginner TW helped me with the built in snapshots mechanism. So before I did anything, I took a snapshot, did it, and if I fucked up, I could easily rollback and try again. Since TW is a rolling release, I now make a snapshot before and after the system update So I always have some stable Rollback snapshots. Gives me so much safety to fiddle around and learn more about Linux. Been loving it so far.
Make heavy use of ChatGPT. I've been chatting about Linux with it for months now.
I use this video when setting up a basic arch install. I'm a beginner myself, and this video takes you through every step. Maybe check out if you're missing something in setup?
How's the community for that?
I use Endeavor which is what I was going to suggest as an easy to install Arch based distro.
For anyone wanting to learn then going for something Arch based means you've got the Arch wiki to back you up.
It's a vibrant community, they have a Discord server, whenever I need help with something, my issue is solved almost instantly. Plus, yes... the Arch Wiki which has no match. And the distro comes with a pacman and AUR helper that makes it stupid easy to work with.
Mint xfce.
As a Linux user I can tell you that nothing works. Every single Linux distro requires some amount of work. That's why I do not use Windows or MacOS since it is so closed ecosystem that you can't even fix anything when something fails.
thanks for using Leebra!
go to feed...
There's your problem. Try Linux Mint.
Don't try to bite off more than you can chew. Start small and easy, with a beginner Linux distro, and once you've become really comfortable with that, you can try to move onto something less user friendly.
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