Decoherence explains the process; many-worlds explains the rest.

Can you explain that more simply?

The conspiracy types tend not to enroll in a university to take physics classes.

I was suggesting that it must have gone quite a lot further than what people are taught in classes.

Like "collective consciousness"?

Again, the theory would be that collapse (including the state of what is on the paper) occurs upon review of the paper.

Consciousness collapse theories are particularly interesting in the context of the quantum eraser variations of the double slit experiment.

Personally my favorite interpretations ever since reading the Asking photons where they've been paper have been ones incorporating forward and backwards wave functions like the two-state vector formalism or the transactional interpretation.

It's thought provoking to look at experimental results under different interpretation contexts, and is one of the things that frustrating in people thinking there's merit to trying to "pick a team."

Not everything needs to be a team sport, and a variety of interpretations tends to be a good thing as each prompts different types of experiments by their various supporters.

I don't think so, from how kromem words it:

(i.e. collapse occurs at the point you are reviewing the data).

The person reading the data is the consciousness, and the collapse is deferred in this case.

What I find interesting about this idea is: What if the computer were to take actions based on the data? Would the collapse occur at the point where agonist notices the effects of those actions? Does it occur when they logically link the action to the event?

I could imagine this as a sliding scale, where in one end is something obvious (reading the data, or an indicator light) and on the other end not obvious at all (a circuit heating up slightly different due to the data being stored). Both of these things have effects in physical reality (presumably), so I wonder at what point in that scale are we would call it a "consciousness collapse"?

Which is why QM interpretations are considered to be part of Physics philosophy as you can see the link to the weighty writeup on the Copenhagen Interpretation is part of Stanford's Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

But all interpretations are part of philosophy and are currently not falsifiable. Not just the ones someone may not like.

And just because it's not science doesn't necessarily mean it can't be right. No harm in exploring ideas.

Right, Roger Penrose and Eugene Wigner and a host of other physicists who subscribe/d to consciousness collapse interpretations aren't people who care about evidence...

It's wild how many people are so quick to be confidently incorrect about something that sounds correct and science-ish but doesn't at all reflect the actual subspecialty nuances.

Literally none of the QM interpretations have evidence supporting their particular interpretation.

At best there's a handful that have been abandoned due to falsification, like interpretations predicated on local hidden variables.

There's no more evidence for Copenhagen or many worlds than there is for consciousness collapse.

There's simply different inherent assumptions that different physicists are willing to entertain, but it's entirely a personal choice and ultimately not evidence driven.

And the picture of assumptions changes over time. For example, post-2018 all popular interpretations other than many worlds have a new "pick at least one of three" assumptions that must be embraced following a new paradox. But currently that's pretty much the only guiding factor, is what assumptions one is willing to entertain.

Thanks for this. Was getting tired of seeing people claim that our eyeballs change the photon path somehow and was getting ready to type.

For anyone familiar with circuits, it's the same concept as understand why connecting an ammeter or voltmeter changes the value you measure. That is, a miniscule resistance must be attached in series or in parallel, respectively, to observe/measure the current or voltage, which inherently changes the current or voltage.

I thought it was Clarke since it's known as Clarketech.

MWI, multiple worlds interpretation

But experimentation says otherwise, that’s the whole fucking point mate.

I understand logically what you say sounds like it should be true. But science is not about logic and making sense. It’s experimentation.

https://news.isst-d.org/...

https://timesupfoundation.org/... (The Time's Up Foundation site seems to be down, sadly enough)

James Randi served as the primary science advisor on the False Memory Syndrome Foundation, basically they were this organization that pushed the idea that there was a disease called "False Memory Syndrome"

What's False Memory Syndrome? A disease that causes you to randomly remember things that don't happen, like say being sexually abused by a parental figure or close friend.

The foundation was kind of disbanded, in 2019, when its board was revealed to have basically no evidence that False Memory Syndrome was real, actively discouraged victims of abuse from seeking therapy (for fear that Psychologists would use hypnosis to "Implant a false memory"), and were pretty much all credibly accused of some kind of abuse.... Investigations into the foundation showed it didn't really do any research into the syndrome it claimed to exist, it mostly just built legal defenses for scum bags by sending people to court to say "She says was she was raped, but she's obviously completely insane and thus probably making it up. Source: Trust me bro"

Birds of a feather flock together... Now it's possible he joined as a kneejerk response to the Satanic Panic (When people were being coached to say they were molested in the glorious name of Satan as children, claiming "Resurfaced Memories"), but one would think that he would have sounded the alarm when he realized was a science advisor that didn't do any actual research, just picked up paychecks to say "False Memories are totally a thing, I'm James Randi, do you not believe my appeal to authority claim?".... but he didn't. Weird.

It's also sus that Randi was a Science Director of ANYTHING considering he literally was a high school dropout with no science training (Something that honestly casts doubt on the Million Dollar Challenge's legitimacy if you ask me, now keep in mind, showing Randi as a charlatan does not exonerate the frauds he caught. It merely proves this to be more of a Dexter situation; Dexter being a show in which a serial killer catches other serial killer, Randi being a scammer catching other scammers) I'd compare James Randi's fraud busting as being similar to a case when Police catch the right guy, but fail to read him the Miranda or respect the 4th Amendment.

There's also this matter - https://youtu.be/5khkDtUzAlc

Recorded phone sex tapes of Randi speaking with young boys, James Randi claims that he was working with police on a sting operation, but that explanation makes no sense since if teen boys are calling him up for sex... What crime are the teen boys committing? It honestly sounds like they're the victims of grooming here.... So the better question is, how did these young men even get this number in the first place?

So why haven't you heard of this before? Quite simply JREF has the resources and motive to protect the image of its founder, and since Randi's reputation is largely positive with most people against him being scam psychics thoroughly debunked as scammers. Making it kind of easy to just claim anyone against Randi is for the likes of Geller or Browne, or is one of the religious fanatics that claimed he was, as you said, an Anti-American Communist... Just play the "No U" card and the skeptic community takes the bait, of course mainstream outlets aren't going to say this and get these communities out for their blood..

James Randi, was a pseudo-skeptic who liked 'em young.

It's a play on "Wu" actually

Because time stops at the event horizon.

As perceived from outside, anyways.

When you fire photons through the double slits, one photon at a time, they cause wave interference patterns with themselves as if each photon travelled through both slits.

You're right, I forgot about this part of it.

The interference pattern only appears after firing many many photons. They're still a photon (packet of energy) when creating an interference pattern. It's the distribution and probability of its location that changes. Not the physical "shape".

Edit: to clarify further

When not being detected, it's still just one dot that appears on the sheet. As more and more are fired, the interference pattern shows to show as each photon hits the screen

It's all about the distribution possibilities.

The meme confuses two things in quantum mechanics. One is the double slit experiment, which confirms that light behaves both as a wave and a particle. That's what the meme is showing here.

However it's also throwing in Schrodinger's, which states that until you look at something it exists in all states - the classic theoretical example being the cat in a box, which is both alive and dead until you open the box. That doesn't make much sense in the real world, but when looking at quantum particles it is provably true.

Here is another meme that more accurately explains things: https://mander.xyz/post/5143468

Just to complete the set of "principles of quantum mechanics that people know of but don't fully understand", there's the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which states that you can either know the position of something or its momentum (ie where it's going). The more accurately you measure one of these, the less accurate any measurement is of the other.

Edit: However there's also what /u/Ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone said below:

The double slit experiment is about observation.

When you fire photons through the double slits, one photon at a time, they cause wave interference patterns with themselves as if each photon travelled through both slits.

Yet if you set something up to measure which slit each photon passed through, they no longer interfere with themselves, and give you the two straight lines pattern, rather than the interference pattern.

So maybe the meme was referring to this variation on the double slit experiment, rather than Schrodinger.

The issue is that you can’t detect photons without interacting with them.

Can't...So far, right? Like there hasn't been a method developed to somehow detect indirectly without interaction? I don't know enough about this to know how one might go about that, but I imagine those that know more might love to given whatever knowledge may be gained.

Im not an expert but tour comment should be on top. Knowing this, all makes sense so easy.

Same deal, you're still measuring and can still determine which photons passed through which slit.