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2 years ago by talos_the_true_god to c/mildlyinfuriating
So, Instagram has started pushing threads into users’ feed, and every now and then we get a glimpse into the unmoderated crapshoot that is that app…
L.E.: should be noted I do not have a threads account, have never even downloaded the app, this is sorta like “advertising” to try to convince you to move to their platform.
I think it’s quite likely they’ve learned too well about the past. If recent history (and internet-documented behavior patterns) are to be analyzed, I think it shows that people yearn for power and control over others: just look at all the karens, the reddit mods (you know which kind), the trolls, supporters of certain parties and so on.
I guess they imagine that extremist regimes will provide them with that power, without taking a moment to think “oh, wait, the chances that I’ll be the one oppressing and not the one oppressed are miniscule” (and that’s setting all other moral things aside).
It’s a scary thought, like you said.
I think part of that stems from a lack of control over their own lives. They feel powerless in their own situation in life, and an easy excuse fed to them to satisfy that lack of control is by stomping on somebody else. "It's not our fault that your life sucks, it's obviously insert minority here who's to blame!"
I guess they imagine that extremist regimes will provide them with that power, without taking a moment to think “oh, wait, the chances that I’ll be the one oppressing and not the one oppressed are miniscule” (and that’s setting all other moral things aside).
I'm pretty sure the ones oppressing and the regimes always have something in common (race most often, then wealth). Even if there is a slight chances the regime might turn against them, the minority and the rest will be the first to bear the brunt of the force which will be cheered on. And by the time the regime turns on them (unlikely), most will have had enough of a clue to prepare or escape.
I think it shows that people yearn for power and control over others just look at all the karens, the reddit mods (you know which kind), the trolls, supporters of certain parties and so on.
I think that's way too generalized. "The internet" paints a very distorted picture picture. First, the absolut vast majority of people online are lurkers, so you don't see what they think or do at all. "Nuanced takes" barely exist because people just blast whatever is on their mind right now into the void that is then interpreted by millions of differently biased people.
The mods, trolls, etc. are the fringe of the fringe, often the types of people who have no real life, who cannot really fit into society and who have to find other ways to get attention/validation.
Mods aren't some kind of villanous power hungry monsters, they are socially untalented nerds who want to do something that feels important, but who often feel unthanked, underappreciated and feel as if everything they do is wrong no matter what they do and who have to deal with the worst of the worst on the internet constantly. And then they are expected to have a discussion about every second decision they make because somebody feels that their comment was not interpreted the way it was intended and cries censurship if the discussion is blocked.
Given that it is somehow expected that moderation often happens without compensation (even though it is essential to a community), I'm suprised it even works as well as it does. If people in general were as powerhungry as you seem to make it out to be, people would kill for the chance to become a mod. In reality, the absolute vast majority of people doesn't even think about it, which means the job is left those who probably having human interactions in the first place.
I guess they imagine that extremist regimes will provide them with that power
Most don't think too much about that stuff (or anything really) in the first place. Many "right wingers" aren't like the disturbed "true believers" you see at rallys or stuff like that, for many it's just the community aspect they crave and the rest is no mostly larping.
I think it shows that people yearn for power and control over others:
People don't do that as such. They search for power as a result of being under power. In a sense complaining about Nazism is like complaining that some people, when trying to get rid of their shackles, flail violently instead of using a lockpick: It's a symptom of a symptom, by no means core nature.
The United States was the primary source of inspiration for the German Nazis. Even as the fascist Nazi party was rising up in Germany. They were mimicking fascists in the United States. The German beer hall putch was not an isolated or unique event. The fascists here in the United States had the business plot. Which FDR almost completely dropped the ball on in exchange for short-term gains. Letting these seditious fascist escape with their lives to regroup and continue plotting. Long ago having clawed back most of the short-term gains FDR got.
Within barely a generation they were running bigoted racists like Nixon and winning. Soon followed by the rather open protofascist Reagan. Whose vice president was former head spook at the CIA. The same CIA that had spent much of the early 20th century overthrowing democracies and destabilizing the rest of the world. He also happened to be the son of the man that was most likely to have been their intended leader to install as fascist dictator. Who's coke adult son a little over a decade later followed in his father's footsteps.
Fascists in the US at least have never had consequences to learn from. They've barely had to setbacks. They just slow boiled it here. But we still arrived at poisoning the blood of our country and blood and soil. Eventually. January 6th was not even the first Republican coup plot that we know about.
And there are plenty in the UK and Europe that learned the wrong lessons from world war II as well.
Long ago, I saw a documentary series about dictators, and it had some interesting things to say about the source of inspiration Hitler had. You see, Benito Mussolini transformed Italy and wrote the book on how to build a fascist country. Hitler took those ideas and started applying them on a larger scale.
Yes, how dare we acknowledge our own faults. Always weird how desperately people are to hand wave away our own guilt. Like we never turned away shiploads of fleeing Jews. And American companies didn't help logistically to teach Jews on the way to the gas chamber. Or worse.
It's just interesting to me how radicalized the Internet is nowadays. Any excuse to bring up a way to shit on the US is jumped at. Especially on Lemmy. I'm starting to wondering if that's the point of Lemmy as well.
It's not like the small communities here are surviving.
People HAVE learnt from the past. It’s just the wrong people, and they learned the wrong lessons.
It's kind of a cycle with capitalism. There's no real way to control it other than to get rid of capitalism altogether.
That simply isn't true unless your definition of "socialism" is an alliance of segregation era American liberals, the British Empire, the Chinese Kuomintang warlords, and Stalinists, in which case
Uh, okay bro.
Now if you want to say "socialism removes the pressures that create support for fascism instead of creating them like in capitalism," sure, okay.
I’m honestly surprised and shocked that Nazism is rising up again
Have people not learnt about and from the past?
or have you just not been paying attention? Nazism and fascism never went anywhere, and have been openly on the rise again for a significant while now, and those of us who it already impacts have been fighting them as best we can every step of the way. So maybe instead of pointing your finger at others, you should be asking yourself how this can possibly be taking you by surprise, unless you weren't paying as much attention as you like to think you have..
Don’t know about you but in my country there’s barely to no Nazism. Sorry if I don’t go out of my way to search for it.
ETA: It is also illegal in my country.
Which country are you from?
The Netherlands
This comment reminds me of the Chumbawamba song "The Day The Nazi Died", the lyrics are about pretty much what you said.
As the number of people who personally had interactions with the OG Nazis continues to reduce toward zero, the people who are following that same fascist ideology will start to slither their way into influence and the whole cycle will try to repeat.
I dunno about other countries but here in Poland (the same Poland that the nazis invaded) some teens joke about it all the time. I'm pretty sure that it's probably some teenager tryin to be funny instead of an actual nazi
Is it though? Or are we just calling more and more things nazi that in reality aren't? I can only speak for myself but in my case that word has entirely lost its meaning. It's basically calling someone stupid.
I love people saying we're just calling more things nazi when a major USA party has been actively using the American nazi party logos, slogans and ideas for years.
And the person who posted it is far more likely to be an edgy teenager than a literal nazi. My question still stands.
Quite a few of the original nazis were those too, or started that way. Groups like that are known for recruiting the youth.
Open your fuckin eyes, dude. It’s blatant and not hidden anymore. If you don’t see it, that’s because you’re choosing not to.
What's the effective difference between being a Nazi "to be edgy" and just being a Nazi?
If you read the news there has been multiple neonazi parties getting arrested for gathering guns for some nwo shit. And conservative and borderline faschist politicam parties are on the rise in multiple european countries. So no we are not just calling stuff nazies for no reason
Sure, but I never claimed that they don't exist. I'm just very sceptical about the claim that it's getting more common. I don't even remember when I last time saw a proper skinhead. Even those seemed to be way more common 15 years ago. And yes I know not all of them are nazies either.
They are not just skinheads anymore. They wear polo shirts and khakis. Did you miss the march in Charlotsville along with many other gatherings of that nature? Just because you are ignorant of this doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
if 5 people are sitting together, and 4 of them proudly proclaim to be nazis, and the 5th person doesn't leave - there are 5 nazis sitting together
A bunch of friends who actively use the app were praising it for its “freedom of speech” and “unmoderated nature”. Showed me some pretty foul things while they were at it :)) safe to say, I’ve started to move away from them
A bunch of friends who actively use the app were praising it for its “freedom of speech” and “unmoderated nature”. Showed me some pretty foul things while they were at it :)) safe to say, I’ve started to move away from them
And that's why any social media algorithm would think you'd be interested in such things. Report and block.
Looks like they got it by now.
Must’ve had tons of engagement (hopefully comments decrying it). Perhaps more comments than reports, and/or an underfunded moderation team.
Who am I kidding, definitely underfunded moderation teams.
I'm not so surprised
SANTA IS A MARXIST??? HAHHAHA!
Beyond dumb, it's hilarious
There is room for this being an obvious joke about a fictional character and two grifters believing some of the things unironically in other situations.
The fat, jolly, red-suit-wearing Santa as we know it today, created by Coca-Cola to sell more product, is a Marxist. TIL. 😂
Take a lesson from Coca-Cola: If you can't beat them, co-opt their propaganda.
Turning Santa into a lesson for Marxism is fine by me.
No he wasn't.
Revisionist history is really making the rounds these days.
I just learned the other day Jesus was a Palestinian Arab which is really amazing because the history books seem to indicate that Jesus died before Islam was founded or the term Palestine had been placed on that piece of land by its colonizers.
I'm learning so much from Instagram and tik tock. It's amazing. Who needs university degrees anymore!!!
Reminded me of this video
I am more willing to believe that this is satire than that anyone anywhere on planet earth legitimately holds that view.
I saw a couple other screenshots of unhinged threads post ads on insta that were straight up trans hate posts. Guess they're really trying to show off their "free speech"
The funny windmill men also 8 thousand likes WTF
The number of Nazis on the internet should come as no surprise. It's not even surprising that so little is done about it or that almost no one cares. The only surprising part is that advertising used to be free of this shit.
this won't stop until pictionary bans the word windmill
Just fyi and not that it matters too much, but I'm pretty sure that if you have an instagram account, you've also got a threads account, even if you've never used or even seen it, that's how they got "millions of new members" when they first launched..
Either way, this is gross, but I'm almost glad they're going masks off to compete with xitter's "free speech" because while this is definitely dangerous and scary, I'd rather those who feel the same actually see them for what they really are.
Yeah, you’re right. When you log in, apparently it prompts you to follow all your instagram friends, and it doesn’t say that they have or don’t have accounts, just that your request is “pending”, like you’re waiting for them to reply.
A great screenshot nevertheless. This ugly thing always peaking from around the corner for any chance to thrive.
That’s what advertising is.
I wonder how many people actually are nazis and how many are edgy teenagers trying to piss off people online. Surely the number of true shitbags can't be this high.
Maybe but ruining the life of a 15 year old saying dumb shit doesn't feel quite the same as an adult who knows the weight of their position.
I admit I was 15 over 30 years ago, but has something changed between now and then? Because I don't remember anyone when I was 15 not understanding that "pretending" to be a Nazi to piss people off was beyond the pale.
Maybe these are just Nazis?
If they aren't and their life is "ruined" because of a mistake, it's an important life lesson. Your actions have consequences.
Nazism is a plague on humanity. There is literally no benefit to it existing.
So if it ruins the lives of some dumb kids who think they are cool for mimicking literal hate groups, then so be it. The chance of them joining them at a later date is too huge.
The only other option is to allow Nazis, which is not an option in any way shape or form.
The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.
You touch on a REALLY interesting point actually, where this whole thing of "being a Nazi" has sorta gone underground in the last several years (evolution = survival of the fittest, so if the feds crack down on any group that CLAIMS to be Nazis, hence all of a sudden the remaining groups that were not cracked down upon yet find it expedient to no longer make that CLAIM... while being essentially the same in every other respect, though this is a vast oversimplification).
Thus there is a truly astonishing number of people who literally are not even aware that they are Nazi-adjacent, perhaps 1 or 2 or 3 steps away from it while continually being groomed to be actual, full-on Nazis, and/or to support their policies. i.e. they might not hate Jews yet, but do worry about why illegals are not being deported with haste b/c they are "stealing our jobs" (never mind that they... are not, at least not those jobs that anyone actually wants - those are facts and always remember that those have no place in brainwashing techniques:-D).
The Alt-Right Playbook series by Innuendo Studies goes into great depth on this subject, if you are interested. Especially "How to Radicalize a Normie" iirc (but I'm not logged in right now and it's flagged as age-restricted so I cannot double-check - anyway the entire series is VERY eye-opening and I think extremely worthwhile).
So in one sense you are correct: the number of people who unabashedly admit to being "Nazis" has fallen sharply, and the number of teenagers (+ adults:-P) who are shitposting will (thankfully?) never change, whereas the number of people who will be e.g. fascist while claiming to fight against fascists, really, truly, honestly, and unironically actually are fairly high. So high that in fact there is a very good chance of them winning the next presidential election in the USA. And buried within that enormously large group, deeply hidden so that very few barely admit even to themselves more than a tiny portion of that reality, are a core that are true, full-on Nazis. Of the kind that will go, plus take along as many sheeple as they can gather around them (to use as meat-shields as nothing else), to bloody violence to achieve their ends. After all, just like Russia pushing into Ukraine, if nobody acts to stop them, then why not?
As far as I can see the moderation there is shit.
Non-english posts are a shit show.
They're beginning to federate with Mastodon, though at least so far it's only developers and employees at Meta. If it becomes an issue later though I'll just block that whole domain from appearing in my feed.
A lot of instances have agreed to pre-emptively defederate from Threads. I reckon that's probably wise. In fact, I think it might be the majority of instances; but not the majority of users, because mastodon.social and some other big ones aren't doing it.
It's literally just shit like this every time
If you’re referring to the “because you liked …” part, that’s for the post below, not for the threads. I personally haven’t come across any nazi posts, let alone like them, but it could be a circle thing, like you say
I wish my lemmy client could hide this post in a way besides blocking the user or community.
For the same reason you don't want to see this on Instagram, I don't really want it on my screen in public either. I appreciate the call-out this post serves, but one view is enough.
You laugh but there are actual Nazis on some internet platforms
I don't think most of us here are laughing, a motivating factor to move away from places like Instagram and Reddit for me was their habit of ignoring far-right activity while punishing left activity. Some of us here are active on the internet in part because we know there are a lot of Nazis active too.
I'm pretty sure reddit and most social media is bias to the left. Maybe you should check your own beliefs as it sounds like you are part of the radical left like most people here.
When I say far right I'm talking about antisemitic beliefs that are often rooted in racist religious beliefs. That's not your average conservative.
Well yes, I am part of the 'radical left', and proudly so, by that mean I believe in healthcare, food and a place to live for all people regardless of any qualifier and think the political/economic systems in place now will not achieve that.
I agree the average conservative is not a believer in that sort of antisemitism, but it's not uncommon. In the terms of US politics, social media platforms do have a left bias, from a more global perspective though they are center or center-right, and overall just do whatever will protect their profits. Reddit, Twitter, others will ban left-wing and anti-capitalist groups and allow their algorithms to push content they know encourages far-right violence because it generates more activity.
I agree the average conservative is not a believer in that sort of antisemitism, but it’s not uncommon
Furthermore, they may not believe in the Nazi sort of antisemitism, but ask them if this is a Christian country. Ask them if there should be Christian prayer in schools. For a real laugh, ask them if Passover should be made a federal holiday like Christmas.
Because their likely answers to all of those are, at a certain level, antisemitic. Maybe not knowingly so, but still antisemitic. It is antisemitic (and anti-every other group that isn't Christian) to expect this to be a Christian country that works on Christian principles.
I would say if social media has any form of left leaning bias in regards to US politics, it's entirely down to the userbase and not the platform. It's been shown that content from left-wing politicians and groups gets buried by the algorithms on places like Facebook and Twitter when compared to content from right-wing groups and politicians on a pretty consistent basis.
I'm not sure there is alternative to "capitalism" as you call it. As it turns out we are all greedy and to add salt to the wound all of the Communist revolutions failed within a short time and caused a lot of bloodshed.
I'm scarred of communism because it causes death and starvation in the end. What you all a right wing bias is the same to me as removing violent and harmful content. You legitimately scare me. (That's not suppose to be insulting) We are no longer locked in a cold war so the best course of action I suppose is to just ignore you.
Please define 'the radical left.'
I'm mostly referring to the people who politically very liberal.
Yeah really weird how you people claim to not support racist religious fascists yet vote for them every time
Fucking fascist doesn’t even know the difference between liberal and leftist
Duh doy
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I’m honestly surprised and shocked that Nazism is rising up again. It is a scary idea that, that ideology is growing bit by bit.
Have people not learnt about and from the past?
save