It is worse. She fully knows that is not true.

Apparently no. We can't.

They didn't just lose the war.

They lost a fucking SCOTUS case in 1869 that said states do not have the Constitutionality to leave the Union. And the best part is, that case was called Texas vs. White. Texas has lost this fight twice.

When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.

And I think we need to start pushing those cases hard, right now. These days you throw a fucken rock and it seems to hit 12 loser larpers before it even starts to wane.

We've had one war, yes. But what about a second war?

This is what happens when you let your enemies live and then give them full freedom to coalesce once more over a century and keep waging war against you along the way while you're fiddling your thumbs.

To be fair, Haley also has no idea, allegedly, why the Civil War was fought.

You know who else was an independent state before the US came along? The Kingdom of Hawai'i.

North Carolina resident here, I'd live in New York if Money wasn't an object, it is... the problem with letting the problem states seceede is that you have trapped those who are physically locked in place by their finances (or lack thereof) into an even shittier situation.

Let's do the latter part of your statement. I'm ok with that outcome.

A state can not secede, but it can be expelled.

What if we just give it back to Mexico? Would they even accept it? 🤷🏼‍♂️

Even if they did, that lack of federal funds and citizen exodus will kill the state.

And where would be the bad in that?

which they lost

It's only illegal when the Democrats want to secede

"we fought a war about this 160 years ago, so you can't have self-determination"

I agree with you about their politics within the US, but hell yeah they should be able to leave if there is popular support for it.

in defense of your sanity, some of those keyboard warriors aren't people: they're AI bots. (They're more keyboard than warrior)

I mean, for it to be an equal trade, Texas has to remain at least a US territory. So Puerto Rico gets Statehood, and Texas keeps most of the downsides of Federal control while losing most of the benefits.

I see this as an absolute win.

You should probably ask the people of Puerto Rico if they even want to be a state, first.

Is Scalia saying that whether or not a right exists can be decided through the use of force? I would expect a judge to disapprove of trial by combat.

Implement a 1 in 1 out policy

I mean, lot of federal infrastructure needs to be moved out (NASA Houston, for example) so it’s not just as simple as “k bye”. There are probably nuke silos etc too and we don’t really wanna leave that kind of shit laying around…

She continues to tell the MAGA base what it wants to hear

It isn't even that much. Hailey's response to the GOP shit fit at the border is "Yeah, sure, leave I guess". Trump's is "I love all my beautiful border guards and we need to stop the evil lying Biden from importing all the drugs and the crime."

Her pandering sucks. Its this tacit legalism that barely passes as sincere. Her heart clearly isn't in it.

Not that she had much of a chance anyway.

I mean, this illustrates why. She's running a defensive campaign designed not to offend her base, while Trump's out there throwing red meat and doubling down.

The struggle Hailey has is that she can't out-GOP Trump without looking deranged. Yes, you can go even further than Trump on this or that issue (like Ron DeSantis tried to do) but you just come off as a lunatic. Trump gets to play at being this usurped monarch rallying an army to retake his throne, while Hailey is just some lickspittle courtier trying to appease the angry mobs.

She knows.

She's trying to be their mommy when orange man isn't available anymore and hopefully she was lukewarm enough that she'll win next time or something

She's not even catering to the MAGA base that well either.

I agree with this☝️

They wouldn't be voting in any US elections in that case.

I'm more concerned with moving people who don't want to be a part of Texas. Would those who cannot afford to move be stuck in another (hostile) country? Would the federal government just... pay to move some tens or hundreds of thousands of people? What if that number ekes closer to millions?

So true, basically as un-American as it gets...

The last few years have taught me the flag they're effectively honoring is not the stars and stripes at all. Honestly, the situation today is kind of like them awakening to the fact that they were Confederate traitors all along and not only acknowledging it, but being proud of it.

The Republicans will go the way of the Whigs and Federalists without Texas 40 electoral votes.

The Whigs jettisoned their conservative wing and converted to a hard-in-the-paint Abolitionist / Free-Land Party under Lincoln, then went on to dominate US politics for a good 20 years.

I strongly doubt that most Texans want to secede.

Texans want to be in charge. You get this noise about secession every time a Democrat is in the Presidency. Then a Republican wins and they've all got their flags out screaming about how America is the Freest, Bestest, Strongest Country and if you don't agree we'll kick your ass.

The what?

Texit?

I am literally on my way to Colorado from Texas as I write this. We were already in the process of arranging a move when all this business with the governor thumbing his nose at the federal government and defying the Supreme Court broke, I really feel like I'm getting out just in time.

Thank you. Seriously. There are a few good ones still here and we’re doing what we can to change things.

Good on you. That's the best response.

California will take Texas refugees, most of them came from there anyway. And everyone can laugh at them, wow the egg on their face!

Seriously, it's wild to me that people are against this.

The right to self-determination is important, regardless of what an old document (the US constitution in this case) says. Tons of countries (including the US!) became independent despite 'not being allowed to'.

Also -- think of what cutting off Texas would do for the American political balance.... we might actually get to pass progressive legislation for once!

I've always been a strong proponent of balkinizing Texas.

Eh the process to make a state is a basic referendum, ratifying a state constitution, and then a simple majority in Congress.

I'd say if they can get 3/4 yes vote on a new state constitution and get both parts of Congress to agree to let them leave it would be legal.

But that's a pretty high fucking bar.

Why do people think they need any right or permission to do it? These are Republicans we're talking about here.

In the meantime, nobody tell the other Republicans what happens to their electoral college numbers when TX leaves the game.

I thought Texas didn't have any power connections to the US, that's why it's grid goes tits up every time they get bad weather

As much as I would welcome seeing the shit hole that is Texas collapse under their own hubris from leaving the US; I'm not sure you realize that Texas has their own electrical grid and shares very few utilities with other states.

The results of a war fought about that (and other obvious things) disagrees too.

Has every right to revolt like the original 13 colonies did.

But they... didn't. That's why they had to revolt. If they'd had the right, they wouldn't have needed to do the war.

If this were the norm, every country would be split into a million pieces over every petty squabble. Each update to the tax code would fracture another shrinking state.

Think too of the power you wield when your Trump card is, "Okay, we'll just leave and you can have a potentially hostile country on your border. By the way, we're taking all of our natural resources and exports with us."

The gridlock in politics is bad enough. How little would get done if every small town in Alabama could hold the country hostage by threatening to create their own country?

We fought a war over this already and the secessionists lost. The courts also ruled that they cannot just leave. There is no legal mechanism to do so. They can try to pass an amendment but that won't happen because the rest of the country wouldn't agree to it.

If they don't want to be Americans anymore they're free to try and immigrate somewhere. That'd be hilariously ironic.

I personally feel like if they actually had a real gripe then maybe it would be worth considering their self determination. Catalan, Northern Ireland, Bangladesh, etc etc etc. These are distinct cultures with actual claims of oppression of their foreign powers. "We eat beef barbecue, drive big trucks, used to be our own nation very very briefly and oh we hate the president" is not going to rise on the international stage as a cause for independence.

Bc its not even a plurality of people in texas who want to leave. Only about 4.5 of 22.5 million adults voted for Republicans. 14 million didn't vote, a majority.

Because the nation gets ~40% of crude oil from Texas and oil companies can't miss out on that

lol I was just literally wondering if she thought she was a lawyer.

Sounds like Kristi Noem recently who was complaining about how states have a right to protect their borders...and she's bordering fugging Canada.

People were outraged over this scene in John Cleese's stage adaptation and demanded its removal, because of transphobia.

lol

No, we should have kept Sherman marching and burning for much longer, shot or hanged every confederate officer, dispossessed and redistributed every southern plantation to the slaves, and occupied the South with federal troops for two generations. The problem with the South is that they were not treated harshly enough. Instead, they were left to reassert most of their old privileges and teach their kids how great their "heritage" is.

As a born and bred southerner, I wish Reconstruction had continued with harsh penalties until the freedmen would be able to retain their stake in government without the backing of the Union Army. As it was, after the compromise following the election of 1876, the Republicans effectively sold out the former slaves for thirty pieces of silver. Of course things went right back to white supremacy, just with different words for the institutions--not to be funny, but it was literally slavery with extra steps (sharecropping, Jim Crow, poll taxes, literacy tests, and the like).

There were so many missed opportunities from the late war to that election. I've always thought land redistribution to the freed slaves (aka "forty acres and a mule") would have gone a long way towards establishing a class of black landowners while eating away at the power and wealth of their former masters. That kind of economic freedom would have gone a long way towards ensuring personal freedoms could be defended and retained. Simultaneously giving poor whites more education and economic freedom could have robbed the elites of their mob over time.

As it turned out, they created a stratified set of underclasses, with African-Americans at the bottom all over again.

Anyway, it would have been a mercy to white trash like myself and freed slaves to just crush the old master class until they couldn't rise again. Lincoln was wrong about letting the Confederates up easy. Maybe if Andrew Johnson's impeachment had resulted in a conviction, things would have been different. Again, so many missed opportunities...

So this would have not worked at all, just because the Union was abolitionist doesn’t mean it wasn’t also really racist. They just weren’t “we are willing to die for the right to own people” racist. Plus this is underestimating the sheer scale of the amount of slaves in the Confederacy, in 1850 there were nearly 4 million slaves in the American south. While I’m obviously pro taking in migrants and refugees something on that level, during that period of history is not something logistically possible. The transportation alone would be a staggering feat.

No what should have been done is to hang all plantation owners and everyone in a position of authority in government and occupy until a new system is put into place and freedmen are secure in their new lives

It doesn’t have either

The UK and the US are not structured similarly: Scotland is a country, Texas is not.

But the main point here is that all of America belongs to all Americans. The people living in Texas don't have some special right to the land of Texas and the people of California don't have some special right to the land of California.

Texas seceding and becoming its own country because the people currently squatting on it want to leave America makes as little sense as your neighbor doing the same. If people living in America no longer want to live in America they are free to leave but they are not free to take part of America with them when they go.

‘Texas Government’ and ‘The Right Thing To Do’ are oxymorons.

Pretty sure Cali wants nothing to do with Texas

So you’re saying that California as the state with the largest economy in the Union as well as the PLANET’S fifth largest economy should go ahead and leave our system to the benefit neither of themselves nor anyone else? That’s a bold yet indefensible and ultimately idiotic statement.

We are all now dumber as a result of your comment. Please do not procreate.

Thank you.