Netanyahu will just be replaced with another genocider in a long line of genociders, stretching back to the Nakba. If you try letting up on the genociding like Yitzhak Rabin, you’ll just get whacked and replaced.
BluJay320 3 points 2 years ago
Israel exists as a terrorist state residing on stolen land.
Condemning the state’s existence isn’t condemnation of its citizens any more than condemning Amazon is condemning all Amazon employees.
Israel needs to go.
Confidant6198 -17 points 2 years ago
Israel is a settler colony and an ethno state. It doesn’t have a “population”, but a settler regime.
sailingbythelee 5 points 2 years ago path: 0 9894027 9894994 9895730, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 7
Confidant6198 -9 points 2 years ago
I don’t care about the religion of the oppressors and settlers. Israelis are oppressor and settlers who are living in stolen Palestinian land. Israel is an illegitimate settler colony that the UN has condemned since its inception and creation by antisemites who believed that Jews had no place in Europe and wanted to get rid of them. The majority of Jews condemn Israel. Israelis do no represent Jews and thinking so is antisemitic.
volvoxvsmarla 3 points 2 years ago
So, first of all - I basically agree with you and will be playing devil's advocate a little bit here. But some things I want to point out:
The majority of Jews condemn Israel. Israelis do no represent Jews and thinking so is antisemitic.
Definitely not all Jews or Israelis support the Israeli government as it is. But over 40% of Jews in the world live in Israel, which makes it not the majority, but a very big chunk of Jews. While they might condemn the current government, it is difficult to argue that they condemn the idea of Israel when they are living there. However, a second point follows right from here:
Israelis are oppressor and settlers who are living in stolen Palestinian land. Israel is an illegitimate settler colony that the UN has condemned since its inception and creation
Yes. But also it was created a long time ago. Not too long ago, but long enough so that there are generations of people who have been born into this state as innocent people.
Basically, I dislike the idea of how Israel was created and claiming some birthright to return to a land. Depending on how far you want to go you can always find different peoples living in any region. No one would reasonably argue that we should evacuate Manhattan and return it to Native Americans. And this analogy works in both ways: evacuate Israel to give the land back to Palestine as well as evacuating the region of Palestinians to create Israel. Shlomo Sand once said he is a post zionist because the mess has already been created, maybe that is the take I most agree with, although really, there is no fair or "right" solution to this. Which is why it makes this conflict so complicated and frustrating.
LaLuzDelSol 2 points 2 years ago
You got a source for "the majority of Jews condemn Israel"? Idk what that means but Im sure it doesn't mean "the majority of Jews think Isreal has to go"
colonelp4nic 25 points 2 years ago path: 0 9890672, hotness: undefined, score: 25, children: 14
alvvayson 25 points 2 years ago
Exactly.
If the USA tried to again be a White/European ethnostate and allow anyone with Caucasian heritage to immigrate and barred everyone else from immigrating, then no one today would accept that.
And if they went full on apartheid and started putting natives and minorities in locked down ever-shrinking reservations, people would really lose their shit.
When white nationalists try to advocate for such policies, they are rightfully criticized for being racist.
I can never understand why Israel gets special treatment in that regard.
davel 8 points 2 years ago
Native Americans are still getting the shaft, so the US is still a settler-colonial state. It’s also the sole global neocolonial empire*, and Israel is its unsinkable aircraft carrier in West Asia. As Biden has said for decades, “Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region.”
*It’s funny how NATOpedia tries to project debt-trap diplomacy onto China. The US has over 750 foreign bases around the world, while China has one anti-piracy port in Djibouti.
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velox_vulnus 2 points 2 years ago path: 0 9890672 9891054 9891328 9893087, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
Confidant6198 14 points 2 years ago
This is a Hasbara take on things. The white people from South Africa didn’t disappeared after the apartheid state got dissolved. There were Jewish people in Palestine before Israel was established. Palestinian people have never had an issue treating Jewish people as equals. The only apartheid state in the region has always been Israel.
MysticKetchup 12 points 2 years ago
Being entitled to equal rights doesn't mean they actually get them. It also doesn't account for the fact that many Palestinians are denied citizenship or remain in occupied territories controlled by Israel and explicitly not guaranteed equal rights
The comprehensive report, Israel’s Apartheid against Palestinians: Cruel System of Domination and Crime against Humanity, sets out how massive seizures of Palestinian land and property, unlawful killings, forcible transfer, drastic movement restrictions, and the denial of nationality and citizenship to Palestinians are all components of a system which amounts to apartheid under international law. This system is maintained by violations which Amnesty International found to constitute apartheid as a crime against humanity, as defined in the Rome Statute and Apartheid Convention.
davel 10 points 2 years ago
This is horseshit. Regardless of whatever it might say on paper, the indigenous peoples obviously don’t have equal rights with the Western settlers, and the indigenous Arabic language obviously doesn’t have equal standing with the newly-resurrected Hebrew. In practice not even the indigenous Jews have equal rights with the Western settlers, nor do the Ethiopian settlers.
nevemsenki -7 points 2 years ago
The white people didn't disappear alltogether, but a lot of them did emigrate. Jewish people are kind of unique in the way that they face hostility everywhere outside Israel, so that's not really an option for them.
Confidant6198 4 points 2 years ago
This is not true. Many of them have emigrated back to their country of origin since October 7th, 2023. Many of them have more than one citizenship and were not even born in Israel, and many of them are new converts. The IOF has been enlisting new converts like there is no tomorrow from all over the world since October 7th. The ones who have no place to go are the Palestinians who are also currently being genocide.
jaspersgroove 22 points 2 years ago
Along with basically every Asian and middle eastern country, several European and African countries, and a few South American countries. There are a lot of ethnostates in the world.
In fact, I’d say most countries outside of the EU/the anglosphere are a lot closer to being ethnostates than they are to being any sort of cosmopolitan melting pot.
But most of them have been that way for a long time so people just accept it.
trashgirlfriend 6 points 2 years ago
An ethnostate isn't just a country with a majority ethnic group.
It has to explicitly give legal preference to one group over another.
jaspersgroove 2 points 2 years ago
I’m well aware, and stand by my original comment.
Thief_of_Crows 1 point 2 years ago
Very few countries, if any, give legal preferance to one ethnicity except for israel. China is almsot entirely chinese people, but if a white person moves there they are not discriminated against by the government.
halvar 1 point 2 years ago
Nuh-uh. Organic/long established ethnostates may be frowned upon, but if they close off their borders to preserve their identity, that's their right, since I belive in the self-determination of peoples.
It is arguable though, whether these even exist right now, or are there only nation-states and some wannabe ethnostates.
Trying to violently establish an ethnostate is of course something I cannot agree with.
Viking_Hippie 0 points 2 years ago
close off their borders to preserve their identity
If your ethnicity is your identity, you're by definition a xenophobic bigot.
since I belive in the self-determination of peoples.
Except for people who want to move to the ethnostates you support, of course 🙄
Trying to violently establish an ethnostate is of course something I cannot agree with.
You literally can't establish and maintain an ethnostate without the use of a lot of violence and oppression against people of other ethnicities. That's just how the world works.
halvar -1 points 2 years ago
- Ethnicity totally can be part of an identity, but that doesn't mean you have to hate anyone.
- Don't misunderstand "closing off borders". Making the people stay is not okay. Not letting the people that left back is also not okay. Not letting in a different ethnicity? Arguably racist, but I wouldn't count not letting them into your country as oppression. I'm a christian, so I can't visit Mecca, yet I don't feel oppressed.
- That's why I said "long established" and that's why I pointed out that those aren't many. I don't think the violence you'd have to use to establish an ethnostate is in any way acceptable. If the ethnostate already stands though, you may use certain tools to preserve it, which are not many and are usually "not enough".
My take wasn't that ethnostates are good, but that they are not inherently bad either, it's just the tools usually used to establish and preserve them that we must condemn.
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No.
Netanyahu gotta go. Don't condemn the population of a country because of the actions of its leader.
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