There's a good chance he really was innocent, but being weird around kids like that is enough to tank your career regardless, which is probably for the best.
Ilovethebomb 61 points 2 years ago
13esq 11 points 2 years ago
It's an odd case. Whilst most agree that he wasn't a full blown child rapist, it's clear that he had an interest in young boys that went further than just fantasy, but people choose to ignore it because "BeAt It ThO!!!".
You can appreciate art whilst knowing that the artist was sick.
disguy_ovahea 43 points 2 years ago
His father was physically and emotionally abusive to him and his siblings, forcing them to forgo their childhood for fame. He built and lived in an amusement park and would invite kids over to enjoy it. His story reads more like a trauma victim looking to live his missing childhood through others than “a sick artist.”
13esq -9 points 2 years ago
I agree that his upbringing is an extenuating circumstance and I do believe that caused him to be repressed in many ways, that doesn't mean he didn't act out some fantasies that he had with young boys.
"Sick" is a term that's open to interpretation, some would say that the things he was accused of are sick, others would interpret that he was mentally unwell. I would say it's a bit of both.
unexposedhazard 44 points 2 years ago
I mean you should know better than thinking that pedos being acquitted means something. If we have learned anything from Epstein, its that famous pedos and powerful people like to mingle.
ColeSloth 17 points 2 years ago
Yeah but I'm pretty sure Mculley Culkin has outright denied Jackson did anything sexual to him. I think the guy was just weird and traumatized and later completely doped up all the time.
LowleeKun 7 points 2 years ago
I think we would have an easier time if we would start to have different words for people being attracted to children and for people raping children. That way we could say MJ was attracted to children in a concerning way but it is apparent that he did not abuse children sexually.
If only there was way
count_dongulus 39 points 2 years ago
Joe Jackson fucked up all his kids, but he really tried hardest on Michael
KingJalopy 8 points 2 years ago
Good to be the favorite
13esq 25 points 2 years ago
Anyone who thinks Jackson wasn't a pedophile is willfully blind.
Being a great artist doesn't stop you from being a very sick man. His upbringing certainly is an extenuating circumstance, but it doesn't change the nature of his relationships with young boys.
Edit: to the people defending him, I put it to you that you are blinded by stardom. If any other man was fascinated with young boys in the same way, you'd think they were extremely weird at best and probably think much worse.
petersr 52 points 2 years ago
His father was a complete piece of shit and treated him horribly and also he was never really allowed a proper childhood.
So I have heard some people argue that perhaps he was not a pedophile, but rather just really mentally ill, partly believing to be a kid that just wanted child playmates. Still wrong for an adult to act like this, but perhaps there was no sexual misconduct.
Not sure what to believe and perhaps I just don't want him to be a villain, but I would like to hear if there is some concrete evidence.
HeartyOfGlass 43 points 2 years ago
The thing is - there is no evidence of sexual misconduct. He's been investigated by just about everyone from local cops to the FBI since the early 90s, and despite the outcry there's never been evidence. Considering how our justice system dealt with another high-profile figure's history of sexual abuse, I have to believe something concrete would've turned up by now.
Inappropriate? Absolutely. Illegal? Pedophilia? Doubtful. I mean, provided we genuinely believe in "Innocent until proven guilty" ideal...
dependencyinjection 45 points 2 years ago
Is there a single viable claim against him?
From what I recall it was parents trying ton get money and nobody confirmed he abused them, even McAuley Cullen.
13esq 21 points 2 years ago
Leaving Neverland https://g.co/kgs/8Bqcp49
I watched this not just with an open mind, but like you and many others here, with the mind that people were colluding to extort money from Jackson. This completely changed my mind.
I mean, I get it. If one of my favourite artists was accused of being a pedo, I'd defend them and say the claims can't be proven etc.
In this case, I think it's safe to say that whilst he wasn't a full blown child rapist, that he clearly had an attraction to young boys that went much further than just fantasy.
dependencyinjection 29 points 2 years ago
I can’t stand MJ music so he is far from an idol of mine.
I just haven’t seen any evidence or convictions to claim he was a pedo. Even in this documentary, that I’ve seen a while ago.
Dasus 28 points 2 years ago
In this case, I think it's safe to say that whilst he wasn't a full blown child rapist, that he clearly had an attraction to young boys that went much further than just fantasy.
What with the whole Wonderland, seems like it, yeah.
However... was that attraction sexual, per se?
. Being a weirdly childish dude who wants to play with children seems way less worse than pretending to be a weird childish dude in order to rape kids.
13esq 4 points 2 years ago
At the end of the day, we'll probably never know and many people argue that he should get the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise.
I think not only was his childhood repressed, but also his sexual development and I'd be absolutely unsurprised to find that his attraction to young boys was partly, at least some of the time, sexual.
BruceTwarzen 30 points 2 years ago
There are probably just as many people coming out to say they accused him just for the money than people actually accusing him. I'm not saying he's innocent, but i'm pretty sure i know him just as well as you do. Maybe you are willfully blind because you just want him to be a paedophile
Rakonat 28 points 2 years ago
I don't really care for his music and his behavior was immature at best (all can be chaulked up to his father.) but I'll believe evidence of his misdeeds when I see it. Every single accusation was walked back and admitted to be pressured by parents or lawyers for an out of court settlement and every investigation, including by the FBI found zero wrong doing. If he had inappropriately touched a child we'd have some evidence about it.
Doom 21 points 2 years ago
Nah I don't think he did. Two reasons
Every accusation is super weak and some get walked back. Michael Jackson suffered from toxic masculinity, he wasn't allowed to play with children because he was a man. Society is the issue there.
Second reason that sells it, Macaulay Culkin, Hollywood fucked this dude up he's literally talked about it and he says Michael was legit.
samus12345 22 points 2 years ago
was a modest extremely nice guy by all accounts
Sounds like Anon is missing a LOT of accounts.
carl_dungeon 20 points 2 years ago
Maybe it was all kiddy diddling
Rakonat 31 points 2 years ago
Testimony from those around him and supposed victims go the opposite way. Film and music industry is full of a lot of pedos, but MJ seems to have done his best to shield them from it and make moves to distupt the process established pedos used to lure in victims.
Think of how Wienstien used his connections to ruin those who opposed his rapist methods and now imagine how people with money, wealth and relative anonymity to everyone but those they have power over would try to get revenge on a public figure like MJ literally cockblocking them.
_stranger_ 5 points 2 years ago
We're gonna disrupt the pedo establishment!
By getting rid of all the pedos right?
right?
Ragdoll_X 3 points 2 years ago
Definitely not the impression I got from everything I've read. The whole sleeping in the same bed with kids, keeping books with naked pictures of children, showing porn to kids (perhaps the most common method predators use to try to groom children), and the whole thing with setting up an alarm around his bedroom.
Keep in mind that a lot of the information I've seen was from a Wordpress blog bent on defending Jackson in any and every way possible, and yet I still think the case they make is not really convincing. The author speculates about what "true grooming" looks like, and why MJ's actions supposedly don't fit their personal expectations of grooming. They also try to justify him keeping those books with pictures of naked kids as if that was a normal thing to do.
Maybe if it was just one of these things it could still be justified as MJ just being weird. But it's all off these things, a clear pattern of behavior and accusations for which the simplest explanation is that MJ was indeed a predator. What I can say is that if these accusations were directed at some random dude down the road I definitely wouldn't want my kids going near him.
OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe 10 points 2 years ago
From the source you listed (because I have heard of the magazines but didn't look much into it ag the time) the author posits that the two books that had pictures of children were a gift from a fan, and the second he includes an inscription from Jackson discussing the joy of youth he's seeing in the images and that he's sad he didn't have that kind of childhood. Which, weird, but not damning to me.
But I couldn't find a credible source for the "showing children pornography" portion you mentioned, do you have anything for that? My impression so far has been 'weird dude, if I knew him I still probably wouldn't let my kids sleep over but I wouldn't let my kid sleep over ANY adult's house, especially not a celebrity'.
Ragdoll_X 3 points 2 years ago
But I couldn’t find a credible source for the “showing children pornography” portion you mentioned
It's from one of the kid's testimony in the first link (it starts with "Now, when you first saw the suitcase, where was it in that room."), where he talks about how Michael showed him and his brother some porn mags. The first time he was hanging out with MJ while he was putting on makeup, and MJ picked up a suitcase with the porn mags and showed the kid one of the pictures. In the second occasion the kid can't recall if he or his brother brought up the suitcase or if MJ did, but he says that they were all looking at the magazines together for "30 minutes to an hour".
Regarding the books specifically, it's one of those elements that on their own could be interpreted as just MJ being kinda weird. We know the first book was a gift given the fan's inscription, and it's fairly reasonable to assume that the second one was a gift too. As the blog post points out the third book wasn't brought up in court and wasn't with the other two books, but it's still reasonable to assume that it belonged to MJ. To me the way the blog author tries to "soften" the book definitely points to some bias in their part:
The third book, that was confiscated in 1993 In Search of Young Beauty: A Venture Into Photographic Art (Charles Du Bois Hodges, 1964) which contains both boys and girls, mostly dressed, but some nude or semi-nude.
If we squint a bit we could just chalk these up to MJ possibly being a nudist or being a bit weird. I certainly think it's odd that he had books with pictures of nude children in them, and even liked one of them enough to inscribe his own message in it, but if only the books were brought up in court I certainly wouldn't think that's enough evidence to convict someone. But given the whole context and other elements of the accusations I'm not willing to give MJ that much benefit of the doubt.
LowleeKun 49 points 2 years ago
Did he ever get convicted over anything? Even though i won't say he was not a pedophile, is there actually any evidence that he was? Are people really that needy for hate?
I had a roommate who was actually hating on me for listening to micheal jackson for that "reason". Back then i sadly was afraid enough to even "associate" with a person "like that" via listening to his music. Pathetic, i know.
I wish he was still alive.
TachyonTele 67 points 2 years ago
Nope. And the kids all say he never did anything sexual. He was just a very talented strange guy with serious issues from growing up.
Honytawk -14 points 2 years ago
You recon those kids just say nothing happened to keep the image of MJ in a positive light? You know, because he is already dead anyway? So persecuting him wouldn't do anything.
Might have gotten some hush money under the table or something. So its a win-win.
ZILtoid1991 8 points 2 years ago
Hee hee
rockerface 7 points 2 years ago
I think the whole spawning demons with his blood thing might have been the reason
SynopsisTantilize 5 points 2 years ago
Wut
rockerface 2 points 2 years ago
SynopsisTantilize 15 points 2 years ago
Can you bump me when you get that elusive invisible source pls
SynopsisTantilize 1 point 2 years ago
Thanks bro
shalafi 1 point 2 years ago
Should have posted sources. Here y'all, take your pick, form your own opinion:
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=child+porn+found+in+michael+jackson%27s+home
Tarquinn2049 4 points 2 years ago
He likely did have vitiligo, but as far as I know, it doesn't lighten all your skin gradually and evenly. I don't know if he did do something about it on purpose. You'd think if he did, at least some other people with vitiligo might choose the same option...
But either way, I don't begrudge him the choice if it was something he did to deal with vitiligo. Honestly, I don't know if I would begrudge him the choice even if he didn't have vitiligo. It would certainly be an odd choice, with some social consequences, but it would be his choice.
His skin changing to white was only part of it too, he also had plastic surgery to make his facial features shaped more in-line with facial features common to white skinned populaces. His nose infamously took too much work to get the way he wanted it and ended up with problems later. Could be entirely co-incidental that the plastic surgery he wanted happened to make him look more like someone that was born genetically white skinned...
But taken together, it does seem pretty likely he wanted to identify as white.
If that was the most noteworthy thing about him, people would probably have been upset for a while, but got over it at some point. I mean "Black Alien" has certain done more to purposefully change his appearance and while we see him pop up on the internet every now and then, we tend to go back to fogetting he exists between mentions.
But Michael Jackson is noteworthy for reasons that would hold just as much merit if that part of his life completely never happened.
I, for one, am not convinced of any of the pedophilia stuff, but alot of people are. To me, the descriptions of activities the kids gave sounds so much more like a stunted childhood than anything sexual. But, assuming they were true, it's much closer, but still wouldn't be the most noteworthy thing about him.
He was just that much better than the next closest musician. That he could get through both those news stories coming up all the time, and still have most people think positively of him.
june 26 points 2 years ago
He never identified as white, he was proud of being black. His facial surgeries weren't about looking more white, but more beautiful, which due to white supremacy culture includes characteristics you could describe as white but not very accurately.
He used a skin whitening cream to even out his skin tone, because there was no skin darkening cream. It's medically possible to destroy melanin but not to easily replace it. The vitiligo comes in in spots from my understanding.
SharkEatingBreakfast 17 points 2 years ago
His facial surgeries weren't about looking more white, but more beautiful, which due to white supremacy culture includes characteristics you could describe as white but not very accurately.
Notable absolute completely irredeemable piece-of-shit Joe Jackson's constant abuse of Michael, that also included comments about his looks, specifically his "black nose", also had something to do with it.
Aussiemandeus 27 points 2 years ago
Haha I live in a majorly aboriginal town being aboriginal myself and honestly it's a shit show.
But your comment made me imagine me my family and everyone around wearing trousers and shirts watering our lawns with picket fences haha
Really tickles me
Aussiemandeus 6 points 2 years ago
Cheers mate. Good thing the votes here don't matter
apostrofail 2 points 2 years ago
there’re* Yanks* 🦅
TachyonTele 19 points 2 years ago
If all who did what?
HelixDab2 5 points 2 years ago
It's very probable that he had some form of body dysmorphia. The multiple plastic surgeries surgeries to chase after some kind of ideal self while his appearance got more and more unusual is kind of a tell.
meowMix2525 3 points 2 years ago
I mean having your head set on fire for a pepsi commercial might do that to a person
SynopsisTantilize 5 points 2 years ago
Lol pdiddy showing up to trial white like nothing's wrong or changed.
"Ayo your hono-ahem... Good afternoon your Honor" lol
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greentext
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This is a place to share greentexts and witness the confounding life of Anon. If you're new to the Greentext community, think of it as a sort of zoo with Anon as the main attraction.
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I agree. Also, he was acquitted on all counts.
Not only was he one of the best performers, he was also an incredible composer. He heard “Beat It” in his head so clearly, he recorded a demo of the whole song using an 8 channel mixer and cassette.
https://www.michaeljackson.com/...
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