Defederate lemmynsfw.com?

3 years ago by CosmicGiraffe to c/lemmyworld

The admins on lemmynsfw.com have decided to allow "non-IRL loli", i.e. drawn porn involving children/teenagers. (Post: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29633).

Irrelevant of the moral issues that this poses, such content is illegal in many countries (e.g the UK). Continuing to federate with lemmynsfw.com will put users at risk of significant legal repercussions.

Please would the admins consider defederating unless lemmynsfw change their policy.

UPDATE: The lemmynsfw admins posted an clarification here: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826. My original argument for defederating doesn't stand any more.

ruud 223 points 3 years ago

If any illegal content would be posted there, let us know. If it's 1 community, we can block the community. If it's all over the place, we can defederate. But I see defederation as a last resort. If there are other ways to keep our server safe I prefer that.

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kinther 66 points 3 years ago

Thank you for taking the conservative approach to moderating instead of nuking from orbit.

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AndreTelevise 35 points 3 years ago

They did make a poll and then later announced they'll be banning underage anime art and IRL imagery . But not art of cute/short characters because it's impossible to discern if they're over 18 or not. It's the whole Pokemon debate all over again.

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Melon 17 points 3 years ago

I think it's worth pointing out that legality depends on jurisdiction and while it's obviously a requirement to obey the your (and other admins') local laws, it's not quite so clear-cut when it comes to other countries.

Eg. It's illegal to criticize Hong Kong's government under their National Security Law. But I think we'd (the community here, not just you and me) agree that lemmy.world has absolutely no obligation to follow that law.

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demonicbullet 7 points 3 years ago

Also worth pointing out in crimes of this manner intent also matters in many places.

If someone sends you that shit out of the blue, or you scroll by it while browsing the internet, there wasn't a damn thing you could do. If you saved the image now we have a problem, ideally you take steps to ensure you won't see that image or anything like it again but I don't even think that would be legally required in alot of places...

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xlsigned 4 points 3 years ago

Also, when you set Type to Subscribed in Settings the front page default feed only contains posts from communities you have actually subscribed to.

This does not prevent lemmy.world from accidently hosting illegal content, but it helps to protect your own feed from unwanted stuff.

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WhoRoger 126 points 3 years ago

2 weeks ago: Lemmy is so amazing, create an account anywhere and you can access everything! It's like forums but better!

Now: defederate >:(

Ugh. I get the concern in scenarios like this, but in the last couple of days every instance has calls to defederate from this or that. Eventually it's just gonna be small islands of "very compatible" instances.

Well, guess it's back to making separate accounts for everything!

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Crackhappy 39 points 3 years ago

Defederation leads to echo chambers. I've certainly had enough of that in Reddit!

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bdonvr 32 points 3 years ago

That's a bit dramatic. Most of the big instances will stay federated with most of the others.

Some topics that are just too intolerable to the general population will get isolated. Pedo content, Nazis, etc. if you feel you need to make a second account to go participate in those things, well you do you I guess...

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WhoRoger 36 points 3 years ago

Well, Beehaw already defederated from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, a few fairly normal instances don't federate with lemmy.ml, even more don't federate with lemmigrad, calls to defed from lemmynsfw were there from its very first day, never mind burggit.

Like, okay I get it that it's not a drop-in Reddit replacement and instance owners can do whatever they like - but I still wonder where it leads at the end.

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bdonvr 19 points 3 years ago

Well lemmy.ml is run by pretty much the same people as lemmygrad. Before the Reddit drama .ml was filled with mostly the same kind of politics. They chose the .ml extension to signify Marxism-Leninism I believe. So it's not that surprising that some have blocked them.

But anyway, where does it lead? We're just in flux. Everyone is figuring everything out. Instances will stabilize. Norms will be established. Everything will be fine. Some pockets will get isolated, but I believe the vast majority will stay together. Once in a while there will be some drama, some splits and spats. It'll be fine, people will shift. Balance will return.

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WhoRoger 12 points 3 years ago

Well, maybe. I'm just skeptical and feel that people have more of a tendency to isolate their islands rather than connect.

And once the disconnect happens, it's difficult to reverse.

Maybe I'm wrong. Guess we'll see.

On the other hand, there's the advantage that if one finds "their own" instance, they are free to speak out their mind, while in the big melting pot there's always a risk of offending somebody by just being a little edgy. Whether that's actually a good thing...

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mtnwolf 5 points 3 years ago

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aski3252 13 points 3 years ago

With the idea of self-hosted decentralized servers also comes a responsibility. With sites like reddit, the corporation behind it is responsible for everything, including moderating potentially illegal content. With lemmy, this is on the individual servers to handle.

I think it's a bit silly to get all dramatic and say stuff like "Well, guess it’s back to making separate accounts for everything!" just because instances allowing potentially illegal cp are to be de-federated..

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datavoid 6 points 3 years ago

I'd say the kbin integration was a pretty big win? And there are tons of new servers coming up - I wouldn't worry about losing a few. There are other nsfw communities as well.

De-federating from someone is totally fine, and that should be up to instance owners (ideally with some input from users)

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medborgare 5 points 3 years ago

Exactly, defederation is just a tool and it’s up to the owners to use it when appropriate and in line with their goals for the instance.

For example when brigading happened on Reddit some subreddits had to go private to defend themselves, with Lemmy the owners can defederate from the offending instance instead but still keep access open for everyone else. Another aspect is the legal side, as someone else also mentioned the content OP talks about is illegal in many countries and due to the way the Fediverse works owners of the federated instances will end up linking and hosting that illegal content on their own servers as well, unless they defederate.

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balance_sheet 5 points 3 years ago

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Adubya 92 points 3 years ago

As a federation shouldn't we start with Diplomacy? This is a prime example. We didn't wait long enough, and it was clarified rather quickly.

Defederation should require more deliberation and unless an immediate emergency shouldn't there be other actions under consideration first.

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MiddleWeigh 8 points 3 years ago

I think there should at least be some type of poll or mod to mod discussion on having them try to combat it on their end.

I'm not sure if that's sustainable but I thinm Lemmynsfw is the best porn content on here currently, and it seems that people like porn.

I agree there should be diplomacy first.

But I guess now, a CP free nsfw instance will start to gain traction and well be alright long term as things sort themselves out.

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redeyedstranger 89 points 3 years ago

I wish there was a way to exclude the whole instance from my personal feed without requiring admins to defederate it. Right now I have to play whackamole with new communities popping up. And it's not just the NSFW stuff.

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ulu_mulu 77 points 3 years ago

I'm taking the opposite approach, that is, instead of blocking what I don't want to see, I join what I do want to see.

Blocking is not effective if you want a "curated" feed IMO, new communities are being created all the time, especially now that many are migrating over from reddit, you might never "end" blocking stuff.

OP post is a different situation though, that kind of content is illegal in many countries (especially EU), just being federated with them could pose a legal risk, it's not just stuff some people don't want to see.

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CosmicGiraffe 32 points 3 years ago

I've been browsing through new as a way of finding communities to join. The NSFW stuff in that feed is unideal but easy enough to ignore, whereas content that could send me to jail is a whole different ballgame.

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Wolfric1982 18 points 3 years ago

You should make a correction because your original post isn't true

https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826

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ulu_mulu 5 points 3 years ago

https://www.europol.europa.eu/...

quote:

Child sexual exploitation refers to the sexual abuse of a person below the age of 18, as well as to the production of images of such abuse and the sharing of those images online.

Your post clarifies they ban content of "youngsters" being not obviously underage, it's not the same legally as to say someone is 18+ years old.

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ulu_mulu 6 points 3 years ago

whereas content that could send me to jail is a whole different ballgame

Exactly. And as someone else already pointed out, it just takes a single user subscribing there to have that content cached here, that would put all of us at risk from a legal point of view.

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Hotzilla 14 points 3 years ago

You can make this even nicer, just originally join instance that doesn't federate with nsfw, and then make another account to lemmynsfw instance, and add both of them to client. You can with one click jump between accounts at least in jerboa.

This makes a nice experience to control what you see and when

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bulbasaur 18 points 3 years ago

You can turn off the ability to see NSFW posts in your profile. It's not ideal since some NSFW isn't porn, but I'd rather miss a handful of things than spend all day blocking porn and fetish subs

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Mac 16 points 3 years ago

I have always hated "NFSW" being such a large blanket. NFSW does not exclusively mean "porn".

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OtakuAltair 13 points 3 years ago

They really need to add in an NSFL feature

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drphungky 11 points 3 years ago

Big agree. I don't really mind non-porn NSFW stuff since I browse on my phone, but NSFL stuff is an instant no thanks for me.

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ulu_mulu 10 points 3 years ago

I agree, there are some memes that are NFSW while not being porn at all, I wish there was a way to distinguish them.

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bdonvr 9 points 3 years ago

Yeah a lot have been asking for this, hopefully it can be added.

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lenninscjay 5 points 3 years ago

Open source, so I’m sure someone can. Platform is very young - I suspect that as it gains popularity, more people will contribute to source, and we’ll eventually see more options for customization. Both at the user level and the instance level giving people more reasons to choose other instances over just population of it.

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miridius 39 points 3 years ago

Why would we need to defederate? Just don't subscribe to their communities and you won't see their content

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runswithjedi 14 points 3 years ago

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Falmarri 18 points 3 years ago

That's the case for anything that anyone posts on any federated server.

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sorenant 35 points 3 years ago

I think those countries should put the resources used to go after neckbeards fapping to drawings to investigate people trafficking real children.

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purahna -15 points 3 years ago

the venn diagram is a circle

also, that aside, "the resources" here are a little different, mounting investigative operations to bust lolicons/pedophiles (same thing) requires more resources than just flipping the switch off on some pedophile's ability to communicate freely

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sorenant 32 points 3 years ago

Are you the kind of person that says people playing FPS games are more likely to become mass shooters?

It might not be our liking but loli is at worst a victimless crime, not the same as the real pedophiles (eg Epstein's associates, like Prince Andrew). I think by saying they're the same, you're actually belittling the gravity of the other.

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Swiggles -9 points 3 years ago

It's not the assault, violence or having a victim making them a pedophile. It's the attraction to minors. It doesn't matter if fictional or real, they are pedophiles.

Many of them probably even act in it, e.g. masturbation.

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sorenant 10 points 3 years ago

It's reprehensible but if they're not really acting on it, as in harming someone else (masturbation, really?), then why should it be a crime and the state be involved? What are you suggesting is that the mere thought of it, involving fictional people at that, should be a crime. Are we certain we want thoughtcrime?

That sort of vilification only makes them more likely to hide instead of seeking professional help. Why would they, if doing so would open them to ostracization?

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purahna -11 points 3 years ago

This is a really good argument until you learn that mass shooters are less than one in a million but child sexual abusers are more than one in a hundred, despite there being tens of millions of FPS players and probably only hundreds of thousands of CSAM consumers in America. It's a catchy gotcha but it completely fails to hold up under material scrutiny.

Mass shootings and child sexual abuse are very different things, and so are CSAM and video games. You would benefit from losing some of the reductivism you've got there.

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sorenant 12 points 3 years ago

You're actually supporting my point. Despite tens of millions of FPS players, there's only less than one in a million cases of mass shooting. Meanwhile child abuse is more common despite loli stuff being uncommon in US compared to places like Japan. This to me seems like an argument to say there's no correlation between the fictional and real counterparts.

If anything, being unable to set apart reality from fiction and saying both are the same is the reductionist stance.

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MalachiAzrael 34 points 3 years ago

They did post an update about it

Looks like its less about blatant loli/shota content and more about "characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage"

How and if that changes anyones feelings about it is up to them.

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positiveWHAT 34 points 3 years ago

I don't care about drawings, there are no victims, but if it's illegal by law it poses a problem.

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PotjiePig 1 point 3 years ago

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CookieJarObserver 17 points 3 years ago

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impulse 9 points 3 years ago

Pretty sure we are hosted on Hetzner in Germany, which makes this very problematic, especially if the admins of lemmynsfw aren't able to properly identify illegal content right away and it spreads through the whole network.

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CookieJarObserver 4 points 3 years ago

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impulse -3 points 3 years ago

Owning child porn in Germany is very much illegal and a fast track to jail time.

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purahna -11 points 3 years ago

"characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage"

yeah of course they're not gonna come out and say "yeah we want to host and share drawn CSAM" and they're going to be weasely and sneaky about it, do you really plan to take pedophiles and pedophile enablers at the honor of their word here

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maddin 31 points 3 years ago

NOT true. There is an update for clarification: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826

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CosmicGiraffe 16 points 3 years ago

Thats good to hear, will edit the OP to add it. I do think my post is a fair representation of the original update though.

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maddin 5 points 3 years ago

Yeah, when I read it I also was like WTF?

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postmeridiem 14 points 3 years ago

im not a pedo 🫤🤷‍♂️ I thought loli meant for teen people like 18-25.

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d00phy 28 points 3 years ago

It feels like partitioning off the NSFW stuff is maybe not a bad idea. Seriously, this might be an area where having multiple Lemmy instances is a good thing. It’s still there, and accessible to anyone who wants it, but folks scrolling Lemmy at work don’t have to worry about something they don’t want to see at the moment showing up. Nobody is saying it can’t exist, but most people don’t have their porn in the same place as their regular reading! So why should it be included in the SFW instances?

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Alexmitter 38 points 3 years ago

You can simply not activate the "show nsfw" checkbox and you will never see that stuff in your feed

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seikoshadow 6 points 3 years ago

Not true, I've checked it and I still see a ton of posts in porn subs that aren't marked as nsfw. Not the end of the world but still somewhat annoying.

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JollyRoberts 5 points 3 years ago

I've noticed that that doesn't always work. User profile pictures can be NSFW and still be shown. And the 'random' posts box will show NSFW images sometimes as well.

It's something to be looked at to make sure all the edge cases are covered, so that the "show NSFW" check box being unchecked actually does prevent all NSFW stuff from being shown.

I'm not worried about it too much. It's just growing pains as the #threadiverse gets on its feet. The devs will fix it in the code, and until then the user can block stuff manually, which is what I have been doing.

@CosmicGiraffe @d00phy

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Liontigerwings 5 points 3 years ago

please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this will even block a video on a normal feed with a lot of swearing if someone marks it NSFW.

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Today 10 points 3 years ago

People sometimes mark nsfw to be silly for a crocheted penis or a cat in a funny position. I don't want to miss those.

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Alexmitter 4 points 3 years ago

That is true, yet it's also misuse of the NSFW button. It's specifically for depictions that are adult, not for spoken words that are adult.

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Maeve 3 points 3 years ago

And yet, those in-office users may not want an unexpected burst of swearing emanating from their devices.

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d00phy -1 points 3 years ago

True, but all this talk of whether or not to federate… It feels like everyone wants to be all nice and inclusive because that’s how we’re supposed to be to people, but in this case the way the fediverse works kind of lends itself to organically separating SFW and NSFW instances. It just kind of makes sense.

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ch1cken -2 points 3 years ago

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foggenbooty 8 points 3 years ago

That's an issue that will go away shortly. On Reddit admins could mark a subreddit as NSFW by default and all content would hold that tag. That feature currently doesn't exist on Lemmy so people are just sometimes forgetting to check the NSFW box. Jerboa also does not have the box to check at all. I believe the feature is coming soon.

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Alexmitter 2 points 3 years ago

You speak about the "All" section. NSFW communities should not appear there like they don't do on Reddit either.

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query 26 points 3 years ago

UPDATE: The lemmynsfw admins posted an clarification here: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826. My original argument for defederating doesn’t stand any more.

Drawn a.k.a. not real and not obviously underage a.k.a. not attempting to depict illegal situations, doesn't seem like a problem.

Although I agree there should be more ways to filter instances, per user. A blacklist along with the whitelist that is subscription. Show local, show subscribed, show everything (except blacklisted).

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RanchOnPancakes 23 points 3 years ago

Looking a bit they are struggling to come up with a comprehensive policy. Thats gonna be a giant pain in the ass. I wish them luck. In the meantime I'd have a bit of patience and just report anything that is illegal.

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Wander 23 points 3 years ago

Note: admins can delete remote communities without having to block the whole instance.

If lemmy.world admins clicked on "remove" on the offending remote communities that would block them but keep access to the rest of the instance.

That said, I understand the concerns.

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Wolfric1982 17 points 3 years ago

This would be preferable. There are some communities I follow over there I'd like to still have access too.

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Aviandelight 9 points 3 years ago

That would be optimal if it is possible.

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bdonvr 22 points 3 years ago

Edit: They've made an update claiming it was bad English. https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826 - I think they should take a harder line but I will have to continue monitoring it to decide if I want to keep federating with them. Not a good look tho.

Original comment:

God damnit, I was glad there was an NSFW instance WHY did they have to go do some shit like this

Welp, as an instance admin I'm probably gonna have to defed them.

Those admins are fools. They say they're not into it, but don't want to prevent others from it.

Well guess what, it's like the Nazi bar thing. You can't just let them be. They're intolerable to most people so by not banning them your other customers will leave. Congratulations, you now run a Nazi bar.

I foresee most users on lemmynsfw leaving, and it basically just becoming a pedo site.

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maddin 4 points 3 years ago

Except it doesn‘t seem to be true…

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TurretCorruption 1 point 3 years ago

Ngl your bar analogy is one of the best descriptions of "free speech" platforms i've ever seen.

I'm all for free speech irl, where there are actual consequences for being a dick, but anonymity + total free speech online has ended in disaster every single time.

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greenmarty 1 point 3 years ago

I don't know man i think Nazi were allowed to go crazy because most and/or influential people found it beneficial in the time and place. It didn't happened everywhere. Just as communism etc.

Not that it matters with banning NSFW content. I've never got why would people access that via forum anyway.
But i can imagine banning news for posting from sources that are not inline with admins visions or banning science and technology community for being very religious and vice versa if you know what i mean.

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bdonvr 5 points 3 years ago

I don’t know man i think Nazi were allowed to go crazy because most and/or influential people found it beneficial in the time and place.

I wasn't making a statement about the spread of fascism across a society.

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TrollerXD -1 points 3 years ago

perversion or something idk.

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CookieJarObserver -4 points 3 years ago

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bdonvr 6 points 3 years ago

Doesn’t know the internets rule 34

Gets upset…

I know it. I have no problem with 99% of it. But if it involves children, real or not, I want nothing to do with it. I don't want users who want that on my instance. I don't want that content touching my servers.

have no reason to moderate it away unless it’s illegal where they are hosted (lolli isn’t in most countries)

It is in some, and in any case just because it might be legal doesn't mean it's okay.

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CookieJarObserver 4 points 3 years ago

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bdonvr 5 points 3 years ago

Nobody needs moral police. I don’t want to see it

And as an admin of an instance, if I don't block it, and one single user subscribes to it, it will appear on the "All" feed for all of my users.

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JdW 3 points 3 years ago

just because it might be legal doesn’t mean it’s okay.

And WHO decides what's ok? This is where you are wrong. If it's legal then it's ok to have it. I don't have to like it, but just as I only browsed my own frontpage on reddit with subscribed subreddits in a few days I will have all the communities I need or want and just prowse that exclusively. What someone is posting or liking on communities I do not see is irrelvant to me, obviously, as long as it's legal.

There is NO room for moral policing here.

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bdonvr 8 points 3 years ago

That's cool and all, but if one user on my instance subscribes to some pedo community that I don't block it will show up in the "All" feed of my instance. For all users.

So me, I decide. If you want an instance that allows pedo crap go find a different one.

I don't generally ban anything that's not illegal, but pedophilia and adjacent topics is one such exception.

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AdlachGyfiawn 3 points 3 years ago

Drawn CSAM is illegal in Australia, Canada, and most of Europe, as well as several states in the US. People have been prosecuted successfully for possessing loli in the US and UK. It's not as unusual as you think.

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purahna -2 points 3 years ago

hey friend have you considered that maybe we shouldn't be adhering to archaic and unenforced "rules" made by christofash pedophiles on a mass shooting message board because of "DAE Le Rule 34? XD"

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Wolfric1982 22 points 3 years ago

At least with jerboa you can turn off NSFW so you don't need to see it. Alternatively just stick to local or subscribed and you don't have to worry about seeing anything.

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positiveWHAT 17 points 3 years ago

NSFW is an option in browser too.

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CookieJarObserver 9 points 3 years ago

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TempleSquare 6 points 3 years ago

Guess that's why I don't see any. Jerboa for the win!

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buckybeaky 21 points 3 years ago

A quick glance at the post gave me the impression lots of people from that instance are against the change. I’d wait and see how things settle before defederating. Defederating is detrimental to lemmy/kbin growth, it should be a last resort approach.

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CosmicGiraffe -4 points 3 years ago

The problem with that approach is that it puts users here in legal jeopardy. Right now if I browse "All" rather than "Local" I'm risking jail time

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sethw 18 points 3 years ago

Not really, mens rea is a pretty universal requirement to be committing a crime

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CookieJarObserver 14 points 3 years ago

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blackdragoness 2 points 3 years ago

The problem with that is there are so many. Id rather just be able to block the entire instance all at once. I know for certain I want nothing from lemmynsfw period or any other porn instance. I should be able to just block them off.

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tal 8 points 3 years ago

Id rather just be able to block the entire instance all at once.

I have no idea whether lemmy supports that, but kbin does, and you're on kbin.

One would go to something like this:

https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com

And then just check the crossed circle button in the right-hand sidebar.

EDIT: For completeness, according to this, lemmy does not currently support letting users block entire instances.

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CookieJarObserver 2 points 3 years ago

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CosmicGiraffe 0 points 3 years ago

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CosmicGiraffe -3 points 3 years ago

In my mind there's a big difference between NSFW and child porn, and where I am, that content is considered to be child porn. I'm happy to deal with filtering NSFW content for myself, but I don't want to risk CP.

The reason I phrased the OP as a question was that I suspect most users here will have a similar view to me and be in favor of blocking servers hosting CP. If that isn't the case I'll happily go find another instance, I don't want to enforce my boundaries on everyone else.

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CookieJarObserver 6 points 3 years ago

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kiwifoxtrot 18 points 3 years ago

The other issue is that lemmy.world users that subscribe to it will cause the content to be cached on this server too which could create issues for the admin.

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CookieJarObserver -3 points 3 years ago

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impulse 1 point 3 years ago

You got it wrong unfortunately. We basically interact with a copy of the federated instance, that lives on lemmy.world. Each change or comment we make gets synced with the true instance and vice versa.

Which also means that if a single user causes for example a child porn community (I don't care if it's drawn or not, I don't discriminate between pedos) to be federated, we would now be hosting child porn on Hetzner servers located in Germany and Ruud would be in pretty serious trouble.

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foggenbooty 6 points 3 years ago

If I recall correctly that is not true for media. Yes the text is the part and the contents are synced over, but a picture attachment is not and that continues to live on the original instance. And that is assuming the image was posted to the server and not linked to an external web host which is usually the case.

So long story short, lemmy.world would not host any questionnaire images even with federation, it would only host hyperlinks.

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autumn 16 points 3 years ago

Wow the potential for a /c/lemmydrama is already brewing with that admin's responses lol.

I see what they mean about petite/young looking people, but is this the hill they really want to die on? They're making proper moderation more difficult for themselves by splitting hairs.

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Pakyul 5 points 3 years ago

potential for a /c/lemmydrama is already brewing

This whole place is so far up its own ass you don't need a separate community.

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Lols 16 points 3 years ago

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nivenkos 14 points 3 years ago

With AI-generated images too this is a real minefield.

Honestly I'd rather we just de-federate from porn instances entirely, people can sign up there directly if they want that.

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bdonvr 15 points 3 years ago

I wouldn't have any issue if:

1.) it were moderated at least semi-decently

2.) we got the option to hide NSFW communities from "All", while still keeping "show NSFW" on in our settings. Otherwise it's just really inconvenient to go to settings and flip that on and off every time you want to go to such a community or see a NSFW post that's not sexually explicit. They use the tag for other things too.

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OtakuAltair 10 points 3 years ago

we got the option to hide NSFW communities from “All”, while still keeping “show NSFW” on in our settings

This seriously needs to be a thing asap

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bdonvr 6 points 3 years ago

I have an issue open for it - https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/1201

Though I doubt it's the highest priority

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HuddaBudda 8 points 3 years ago

Porn is porn, people will congregate or create what they are attracted to.

That being said, this has a real potential to "poison the well" so to speak. People that jump from reddit to kbin only to be greeted with.... loli stuff, are going to quickly find themselves back on Reddit.

Not only because of the moral problems with such content, but the communities that will attract, people will not want to be associated with.

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CookieJarObserver 5 points 3 years ago

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such_lettuce7970 4 points 3 years ago

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chlorophile 4 points 3 years ago

There are Lemmy instances that do this.

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nevernevermore -8 points 3 years ago

hear hear. a blanket ban on porn is much more effective, there are other places you can find it.

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CarbonIceDragon 10 points 3 years ago

That, to be fair, is true for any type of content pretty much. Isn't the whole point of federating a bunch of websites together the ability to interact with anything from many different places under one account though?

Like I very much get it if an instance in general is legally questionable, which is the original point, but most nsfw isn't

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tal 13 points 3 years ago

Irrelevant of the moral issues that this poses, such content is illegal in many countries (e.g the UK).

As I commented before on this specific issue earlier, I think that this argues that lemmy/kbin really need a more-descriptive mechanism for classifying content than just "NSFW" or "not-NSFW".

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flint5436 5 points 3 years ago

Yeah I agree, tags like "gore/violence" and "sexually explicit" would be nice.

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CookieJarObserver 2 points 3 years ago

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Bojimbo 2 points 3 years ago

I also agree with making a NSFL tag, but some things are NSFW without being straight up porn.

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CookieJarObserver 1 point 3 years ago

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Senseibu 7 points 3 years ago

If you choose an instance that has nsfw disabled, you can’t see those communities on lemmynsfw anyway, even via the search functions.

Instances that do have nsfw enabled needs to be careful as if one of their users goes onto an other instances community with illegal nsfw stuff, it’s cached on their servers anyway just like your browser caches the images and videos from websites. I guess the cache can be deleted on a cron job but still something I would wanna stay away from if I was a Lemmy instance admin. Defederating would be what stops this.

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Andonome 3 points 3 years ago

One of the greatest joys of federation, is de-federation.

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impulse 2 points 3 years ago

The way I see it I think defederation is warranted in this case since it is potentially incriminating niche content. People don't expect to find porn on YouTube, there's Pornhub and the likes for that, so why would I want to see porn sprinkled into my regular Lemmy front page? Just create a porn account on lemmynsfw.com.

Also having spent 16 years on Reddit I simply know that there is content that I absolutely don't want to see, for example, scat and all things rape fetish. I get that there are people into that, but I would feel more comfortable knowing that these instances are opt-in rather than opt-out by default. Especially, because blocking entire instances is tedious for users.

Oh, lastly: I have no idea what the age requirement is on here, but from a legal point: There may be children around here too, and serving (especially unsolicited) porn to children is a huge no-no in pretty much any jurisdiction.

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Soullioness 1 point 3 years ago

I was already wanting this because my feed (all/new) is just overwhelmed with porn!

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zhillyz 22 points 3 years ago

I'm new so idk if this is the best solution but I just made 2 accounts that you can quickly switch between (at least in Jerboa) where NSFW is disabled in my main

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Soullioness 4 points 3 years ago

Ohh! That's an idea. I just don't like nsfw stuff. Never thought about turning it off lol

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CookieJarObserver 19 points 3 years ago

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JollyRoberts 1 point 3 years ago

Codeberg issue link if people want to add thier experiences to it.

https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues/118

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ulu_mulu -1 points 3 years ago

I would also link this if you will: https://www.europol.europa.eu/...

quote:

Child sexual exploitation refers to the sexual abuse of a person below the age of 18, as well as to the production of images of such abuse and the sharing of those images online.

This one: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/...

says the same applies to drawings and AI generated images.

That's up to the interpretation if individual country courts, but I would be wary nonetheless about pictures showing people that could look like teens.

Edit: downvote all you want, laws are laws, if you like to risk it, good for you, I don't.

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Lols 1 point 3 years ago

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CookieJarObserver 0 points 3 years ago

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ulu_mulu -1 points 3 years ago

The other doc I linked is from the European Parliament and that one clearly says child porn (as defined by Europol doc) also applies to drawings and AI generated images.

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CookieJarObserver 3 points 3 years ago

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ulu_mulu 2 points 3 years ago

Yeah, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

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Pixlbabble -1 points 3 years ago

That was my second home after discovering my first planet.

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MeowMeow86 -2 points 3 years ago

I'm still trying to understand this whole app/situation, it makes zero sense to me lol. Is there not a way to block? This situation is definitely worth blocking because it's fucked up.

I'm more so just curious if it's sent to main feeds or being sought out? Just want to learn to avoid this in the future. I don't agree with the negativity of reddit to all downvote and ban at any chance they can but saying "I'd never do this but weirdos voted so we're a pedo sub now" is fucked

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Hanabie 5 points 3 years ago

Yes, you can block them yourself. Defederation means the server does the thinking and acting for you.

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bdonvr 2 points 3 years ago

You can sign up for lemmy or kbin at a number of different URLs and they all work together. But each site is run by different people. I see you're on kbin.social

The kbin.social administrators can block entire other URLs, and all their content and users. This is called defederating. Since anyone can start a lemmy/kbin site some of them allow really hateful or gross things, and you can't do much else but block them.

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LachlanUnchained -4 points 3 years ago

I’ll Be blocking it now on my server.

Shame :(

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OtakuAltair 10 points 3 years ago

They clarified it; they thought loli porn just meant 18-25

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Raphael -6 points 3 years ago

2023 and we still get animephobia?

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purahna -4 points 3 years ago

please say /s rn

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Izzent -6 points 3 years ago

Yes. A thousand times yes.

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clueless_stoner -7 points 3 years ago

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ComputerSagtNein -8 points 3 years ago

Tbh, I feel like it actually should be defederated. I am not against porn, I literally made an account there like I have a separate account on reddit for porn, but I would love to not have all the porn stuff flooding the feed on my sfw account. Sadly there are no convenient filter options yet as it seems.

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kzhe 13 points 3 years ago

You can enable "disable NSFW" in user settings

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michikade 6 points 3 years ago

I wish there was a way to separate NSFW a little more - I don’t mind NSFW stories and adult language and so forth when scrolling but if I’m in public I don’t want to scroll All and see porn. I have no problem with porn, but to me there’s a time and place.

When I have NSFW disabled, I’m losing entire communities that I read the stories from because sometimes the content does 100% need the warning flag that it might not be for general audiences, but I don’t mind seeing an R rated movie in public while I won’t go see an NC-17 movie or an X rated movie in a theatre, personally, if that makes sense.

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Senokir 2 points 3 years ago

Out of curiosity, what communities are you subscribed to that entirely consist of posts that are marked nsfw that aren't porn? Not saying you aren't having that experience but I just can't think of any communities like that that I've come across. Certainly there will be some posts like that but losing entire communities by disabling nsfw in public?

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michikade 2 points 3 years ago

There’s a community of old stories from Reddit lore is a NSFW community - not porn, but the stories can be kind of horrifying in other ways and it is definitely not for general audiences. Disabling NSFW makes the community go poof for me. !archive@lemmy.world - I think there are some not-NSFW stories in it but the community itself is NSFW.

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ComputerSagtNein 3 points 3 years ago

Yeah but that's not quite what I want. On Synch for reddit I have the option to filter out porn nsfw - that's what I am looking for.

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DanNZN 0 points 3 years ago

I dug around and found that which is nice but I wish they put it more prominent in the UI. In the filter section would be great.

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Code_a 9 points 3 years ago

There is also a big red button on the left that says "Block Community"

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DanNZN 2 points 3 years ago

I meant to temporarily filter NSFW from showing in the feed but a quicker/easier way than toggling it in settings.

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ComputerSagtNein 2 points 3 years ago

That said, I would prefer if Lemmy had proper filter options. As long as something is within the law, I am okay with others to consume it, even if I don't want to consume it. It's like political opinions, religions etc. Stay within the law and you can do whatever you want - I don't always like it, but as long as I can filter it out I am fine with it existing.

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ch1cken 3 points 3 years ago

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ch1cken 1 point 3 years ago

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lemmyworld

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This Community is intended for posts about the Lemmy.world server by the admins.

Follow us for server news 🐘

Outages 🔥

https://status.lemmy.world

For support with issues at Lemmy.world, go to the Lemmy.world Support community.

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