Scalper economy

2 years ago by prettydarknwild to c/lemmyshitpost

slaacaa 157 points 2 years ago

Housing is a basic human need, it shouldn’t be allowed to be only an investment. With the other items, you can just say “so don’t buy it”, which is not possible with housing, you have to pay for it, even of you wouldn’t like to.

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bunchberry 12 points 2 years ago

fumo is a basic human need

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timestatic -9 points 2 years ago

Honestly, I get what you mean, but it also provides funding for new housing projects to be built first, and if you weren't allowed to invent in it it would also not really be possible to rent a house, since that relies on someone paying for the house first.

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lightrush 8 points 2 years ago

Housing construction isn't funded by existing housing investment. It's generally funded by debt. Private or public, just like any other capital intensive endeavor. And debt isn't created by lending people's savings but by creating new money. By public or private lenders. (Private lenders create money too.) The only thing that is really needed ahead of time is labor, equipment and materials available. Financial capital is created on demand to mobilize those real resources.

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Viking_Hippie -35 points 2 years ago
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calcopiritus 60 points 2 years ago

I'd bet if you were a lego fan you'd say the same about legos.

Housing and concerts are orders of magnitude apart in "importantness". All of the items above are not needed to live. A home is needed.

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MrScottyTay 13 points 2 years ago

People who buy Lego to sell in the future actually do call it investing by the way

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yeather 4 points 2 years ago

It’s scalping if you have a quick turn around, it’s investing if you take care if it to sell farther into the future. Seeing a recently released limited set for double the price on ebay is scalping, seeing a 20-30 year old mint set for double the price is investing.

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PropaGandalf 1 point 2 years ago

Define a "home". A cave? A tent? A huge loft? What is really necessary to survive?

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SkyeStarfall 25 points 2 years ago

A place where you won't get sick, at a minimum

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Viking_Hippie -8 points 2 years ago
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CileTheSane 5 points 2 years ago

You haven't paid enough attention to notice that the tropic of conversation is that scalping is bad and property scalping is worse, which you seem to agree with, so I don't know why you're arguing with people.

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killingspark 14 points 2 years ago

I agree that "just don't buy it" is not that easy for culture in general, it could be applied to hypermonetized events.

I'm not sure I get your second point. How is Ticketmaster enabled by people boycotting events that get scalped?

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Viking_Hippie 3 points 2 years ago

How is Ticketmaster enabled by people boycotting events that get scalped?

They aren't by that specifically, but they are by transferring the blame to scalpers and the victims of both scalpers and Ticketmaster..

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Hyperlon 3 points 2 years ago

An Important want for sure, but not a necessity in any way shape or form. You won't die or get sick by not attending a concert or a guitar would be listed in survival guildes

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Churbleyimyam 2 points 2 years ago

Sustenance for the spirit.

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Viking_Hippie -3 points 2 years ago

Yeah. Not to mention that a lot of people's social identity, social activities and sense of community are all tied up in going to concerts together..

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stebo02 139 points 2 years ago
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ziggurat 25 points 2 years ago

That's why they are held in higer regard

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BigBrainBrett2517 16 points 2 years ago

👏👏👏

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phx 9 points 2 years ago

I'll add to that: The PlayStation etc scalpers at least give you a still-new product at the inflated price. The landlords rent it out for additional income and THEN sell it at a profit.

So it's more like buying a PS5 for $500, having somebody rent to play it for $100/mo, then selling it for $800 after a year

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lugal 3 points 2 years ago

This isn't even true were I live. Investors will buy new appartments and leave them empty and sell them a few years later. Renting them would decrease the value more than the income is. It's worse than you thought.

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desktop_user 1 point 2 years ago

basic needs make good investments unless the government supplies a viable alternative.

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itslilith 2 points 2 years ago

psychopath behavior

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GiveMemes 2 points 2 years ago

Unable to see the argument behavior. The government, the other commenter is saying, must provide a viable alternative in order to prevent this behavior.

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Etterra 96 points 2 years ago

They're all pieces of shit and deserve to be kicked out an airlock into deep space.

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PriorityMotif 19 points 2 years ago
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spankmonkey 36 points 2 years ago

When scalpers buy all the tickets to a concert in milliseconds, and the only way to buy a ticket is through a scalper, why are you blaming the person who wants to go to the concert instead of the scalper?

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killingspark 10 points 2 years ago

If we all collectively agreed to not buy from scalpers the ticket sellers would have a real incentive to do something against the scalpers. Right now they don't have to care.

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HakFoo 21 points 2 years ago

Would thry?

The ticket seller doesn't care if there's an empty hall, he got paid early on.

You're hoping that the scalpers don't get enough return to be able to justify continuing to play their role.

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Aceticon 3 points 2 years ago

That "solution" suffers from the problem that requiring hundreds of thousands or even millions of people to get informed about and agree to do something all in the same time period (it won't work if some do it now and others only later) is incredibly more hard than it is for a few tens of people or maybe a couple hundred to as individuals swarm the sales venues and take all the tickets to resell them for more money.

Or putting things another way, it's a mountain to climb for large numbers of people to organise and stop scalpers (and that, only for a while, since if people stop doing it the scalpers will return), whilst in the current commercial environment scalpers appearing is a natural outcome.

This kind of thing usually requires changing the structures that make scalping so easy, rather than hoping that somehow (magic?) hundreds of thousands or miliions of people agree to do something.

PS: Yeah, a cultural change would be it, but expecting it to just happen and all at the same time (given that early adopters of that practice won't actually see any upside until a large enough mass of people have adopted it and they'll start giving up if too much time goes by whilst they're refraining from buying from scalpers and yet scalpers keep going because so many others are still doing it) is highly unrealistic.

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CileTheSane 2 points 2 years ago

If we all collectively agreed...

Gestures broadly

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whostosay 1 point 2 years ago

Woah woah woah, we weren't expecting an easy example to prove us wrong, how dare you.

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PriorityMotif 0 points 2 years ago
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Feathercrown 4 points 2 years ago

You could, but they aren't the ones causing the issue, they're just enabling profits to be made from it.

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BudgetBandit 0 points 2 years ago

6 as well. Imagine if nobody would buy houses and just expand their parents house by a floor for their own family.

If that doesn’t work - make the neighborhood criminal by yourself right after those "people" bought houses.

If that doesn’t work, just purge them.

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StaticFalconar 9 points 2 years ago

Oh yeah its totally affordable to just expand in existing houses. Why didn't i think of that?

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BudgetBandit 2 points 2 years ago

I didn’t say anything about affordability, just stated that it’s cheaper than purchasing land + house

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JusticeForPorygon 6 points 2 years ago

I think that's what caused the housing market to crash.

Surely it'll happen one of these days right?

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BudgetBandit 4 points 2 years ago

If my assumptions are correct, there should be a crash of something within the next 4-6 months. My problem is that a new president always means a new unknown variable, like Bitcoin did nearly double its value after Trump won, there will be a still unknown thing once he gets into office.

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Olgratin_Magmatoe 5 points 2 years ago

Nah, it's not worth the price of sending them up there. Just compost them.

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eatCasserole 3 points 2 years ago

especially the "investors"

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MonkderVierte 46 points 2 years ago

"Private Collector"

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Excrubulent 7 points 2 years ago

The commonality here is how expensive the things are. Scalping is another one of those things that's trashy if you're poor and classy if you're rich.

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einlander 44 points 2 years ago

Scalper no Scalping!

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Matriks404 42 points 2 years ago

There should be a hard limit of houses you can buy. Two by default (the one you live in and one you can rent to someone, maybe with a requirement that you need to live there occasionally) and an additional one for each child if he or she doesn't have one yet.

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jol 56 points 2 years ago

The problem is most houses are being bought by huge companies, not people.

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Droggelbecher 32 points 2 years ago

We should really start by limiting that. If we start treating housing as a basic right, which we should, there's zero reason a company should be allowed to own housing to profit off of. It's a far bigger problem than my landlady who owns five flats. We can talk about limits for people like her later.

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jol 12 points 2 years ago

For sure. But we don't even consider water a basic right and concede unlimited water rights to mega corporations before reserving water access to the local population. So I have no hope for that to happen with housing...

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OhVenus_Baby 8 points 2 years ago

They are using advanced algorithms to find the best prices for in demand properties based on profit percentages. Its become so ridiculous corpos are buying houses before individuals can even bid or have access. They buy them in lots at a time. Even using the same algos to place offers on existing properties where people live. Its ludicrous.

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bunchberry 17 points 2 years ago

In Cuba they have a law that requires you to sell your house if you buy a new one. That also means you can't be a landlord or else you yourself would be homeless. They also have a law that guarantees that if you don't own your own home, you at least get public housing guaranteed, which has rent capped at 10% of income so it can never exceed that. They have the lowest homelessness rate in all of the Americas.

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eatCasserole 15 points 2 years ago

And they're guaranteeing this super affordable public housing all while under a comprehensive trade embargo for 60+ years imposed by the most powerful nation there is, who also happens to be their neighbor.

Never believe that housing "needs" to be expensive, it's 100% a decision made by people who profit from it.

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Taalnazi 4 points 2 years ago

Exactly. Good housing can be done.

Shortages are an issue, and desirable only by capitalism -- because it drives up prices.

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Delphia 7 points 2 years ago

First 5 investment properties should carry a 1% property income tax that is directly funneled into a housing development program, then a 5% property income tax on the next 5, 10% on the next 10...

Realestate is the safest and highest yield investment working people can make to build generational wealth. Dont cut the throat of the guy who can afford a brand new Audi to spite the guy who has to decide between wether his driver fetches the Rolls or the Bentley.

People should be able to aspire to being rich, just not filthy rich.

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Aceticon 5 points 2 years ago

The problem is the taking beyond their need, not if it's many doing a little bit each or a few doing a lot each.

A swarm of locusts still leaves you with nothing to eat, even if each one only takes a bit (and unlike people buying a handful of houses to profit from merely owning them, the locusts only eat what they need).

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Delphia 2 points 2 years ago

Im advocating for pushing the wealth from the top down. Make it financially non viable to own hundreds of houses, make it seriously sub optimal to own dozens over the long term.

A lot of new development is driven by investors, to build a new house you need to live somewhere while its built, and pay for the land and pay for the build in stages as it goes. That pretty much requires you to be able to cover two mortgages at once. Most investors I've met are buying off the plan when its a block of dirt or an unleveled paddock and consequently getting it CHEAP. They pay say $500k for a house that will sell for $800k when its finished because average working people cant cover the difference. But the house gets built and adds more supply to the system.

If you destroy property investing as a market, you will seriously hamstring new development and make the problem worse. You need to make owning thousands over the long term nonviable but make investing and adding to the supply be the money maker.

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stevedice 1 point 2 years ago

Too soft. You should not be able to own a house in which you're not gonna live at least 6 months and 1 day per year. Period.

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Telodzrum -2 points 2 years ago
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bunchberry 30 points 2 years ago

It always impresses me how much people worship landlords, even Canada up there is having a housing crisis but nobody dares question the sanctity of landlords. You can watch both the major parties arguing for hours and nobody ever brings up landlordism once. A lot of them choose to instead become hostile to immigrants, both parties moving further right on immigration because stopping immigration or potentially even kicking out immigrants to them is more acceptable than questioning the sanctity of landlords. You also saw a similar thing here in the USA, I remember after the Trump/Kamala debate when they revealed the plans for bringing housing prices down and Trump was "mass deportation" and Kamala was "a tax credit." Not sure about every country definitely here in US and Canada, people here treat landlords like unquestionable deities, the idea that their right to rule should even be called into question is not even something that passes through most people's heads.

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flambonkscious 5 points 2 years ago

One thing that started here in New Zealand was reporting on and ranking their portfolio sizes (lots had it tied up in an estate or trust, but that connection was able to be reported on - even if it might be 'co-owned by the family').

We still have huge problems in this area but the noble few that don't 'stand out like a dogs bollocks' and all the others just looked like the same bunch of psycho/sellouts

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pixelscript 13 points 2 years ago

At least in the case of fumos these days they're made-to-order. Buying 10 of them isn't snatching 10 of them from the carts of other potential buyers, it just means 10 more fumos will be made. If anything it's strictly increasing the supply and making them more accessible to people who couldn't make the preorder window.

This was absolutely not the case a few years ago, though. And just because you're technically not scalping doesn't mean you can't still wildly overcharge.

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Mwa 10 points 2 years ago

Seeing alot of touhou in the fediverse lately.

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yamanii 7 points 2 years ago

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Piemanding 6 points 2 years ago

Touhou will take over the world!

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Mwa 4 points 2 years ago

Yes, Zun will force people to play touhou on lunatic mode /j

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211 7 points 2 years ago

I think most of you are underestimating the cost of housing maintenance. We had some bad luck and a couple of structurally necessary renos were bigger than initially thought, or didn't address the issue as well as we hoped, requiring new renos. In the last 20 years we've paid the cost of our townhouse apartment once over, easy. And now the bathroom, kitchen, and flooring could use an upgrade (25-50 years old), which is again expensive. In that time its value has risen maybe 50%, not quite keeping pace with local inflation.

Not complaining, we bought it for living in and it's been great for that, and now that everything is at the end of its lifespan is a good time to really make it ours. But house prices aren't rising insanely everywhere, house upkeep isn't free (there are always "modifications"), and at least here the average ROI for being a landlord is abt 4-6%, same as stocks lately, and that's assuming no major surprises.

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Katana314 10 points 2 years ago

If you only own one house, it sucks to have luck like that. But, it’s like the dips in stock prices - overall, the value of the whole market goes up over time. Those treating homes as investments tend to buy in the demand areas, where a few lofty renovations don’t dent their bottom line.

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211 1 point 2 years ago

If you get an investment house you plan to keep for 20+ years, those in-demand areas change (here's hoping the next areas to lose their lustre will be the car-dependent suburbia).

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bunchberry 6 points 2 years ago

Not sure I see the relevance. Yes, housing maintenance costs money, what's the relevance? Who says housing upkeep is free? What's the relevance to anything at all?

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211 1 point 2 years ago

"Sold it for a much higher price without ever using or modifying it." Proper upkeep over several years counts as "modifying it" in this context IMHO.

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bunchberry 4 points 2 years ago

You can indeed make money by selling it at a higher price without ever using or modifying it, and even if you do use or modify it, profits from the sale still come directly from not using or modifying it.

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zea_64 1 point 2 years ago

Don't buy something meant to be used and insist you must make a profit for not using it. Rent it out at least.

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211 1 point 2 years ago

Yea, absolutely, hence the approximated 4-6% return on investment - some years more, some years negative.

There is this apartment that I've been eyeing for a while, and I've seriously considered becoming one of those loathed landlords myself. Feels like trying to do right by the apartment and by a tenant would be putting out more good to the world than a passive stock fund, you know? So been reading up on it quite a bit lately.

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criss_cross 7 points 2 years ago

This is how I learn there's a lego death star now?

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TriflingToad 5 points 2 years ago

you haven't seen spider man?

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nichtburningturtle 1 point 2 years ago
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icdmize 4 points 2 years ago

All that shit's gone to garbage except for houses, don't ask me how I know. <_<

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Blackmist 3 points 2 years ago

It's only investing because there's practically no risk.

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Shadowq8 1 point 2 years ago

you can't have cheap housing, because it would crash the lending economy. There must always be a motivating factor for you to work for monopoly money that is losing value. That is debt.

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coolguy 1 point 2 years ago

Just as with all of those items, the "solution" is to decrease regulation and increase supply in the market.

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stevedice 7 points 2 years ago

This is literally what caused the UK to fall back into a housing crisis that they had mostly solved with heavy regulation.

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SharkMommy 1 point 2 years ago

Not the Fumo

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Wolixoriginal 0 points 2 years ago

lol 😂

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Shardikprime -15 points 2 years ago

Arbitrage is a practice as old as the world. I don't see where is the problem in that

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surewhynotlem 24 points 2 years ago

People with lots of money shouldn't be allowed to make other people suffer.

If I punched you in the face, I'd be in trouble. But if I drive up housing process so you become homeless, well that's your fault.

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Sarmyth -5 points 2 years ago

What the hell does that have to do with luxury goods? The house is the only thing you Might not consider a luxury good because you need housing but, owning your own property and not sharing walls with a neighbor is in fact, a luxury.

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aim_at_me 10 points 2 years ago

Shelter is a basic right. And private landlords have been disastrous for the price of housing.

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Sarmyth 0 points 2 years ago

A home is 1 form of shelter. The luxury form. Much in the way a Ferrari is a form of transport vs a bike. The meme doesn't show shelter in the context of a basic right. It's showing a luxury good among other luxury goods.

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surewhynotlem 3 points 2 years ago

Maybe I missed it, but I think the OP is about how home "investors" are also scalpers. So the topic is home investors.

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Sarmyth -4 points 2 years ago

If them buying it denied other legitimate buyers with the same purchasing power from doing so, then yes. A home is too unique a purchase to be scalped though. It's like art in that the house is the only 1 one available exactly like it. The same exact house built on a corner or further in on the block have different values.

2 pairs of the exact same sneaker treated the same from the same production run are practically identical. Market manipulation through scalping is the only method to raise it's price at the time of market sale.

Tickets have a limited duration they hold ANY value so their prices can be manipulated through scalping too.

Houses just shouldn't be in the same conversation.

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d00ery 6 points 2 years ago

Lots of practices are as old as the world. Doesn't make them right

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Shardikprime -5 points 2 years ago
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JackRiddle 4 points 2 years ago

???

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d00ery 4 points 2 years ago

What an intelligent and thoughtful contribution.

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-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.

...

If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.


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1.Memes

2.Lemmy Review

3.Mildly Infuriating

4.Lemmy Be Wholesome

5.No Stupid Questions

6.You Should Know

7.Comedy Heaven

8.Credible Defense

9.Ten Forward

10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)


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All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker

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