then yes you should have as much financial separation as possible.
Yeah that's a thing people in abusive households frequently have.
This is a problem even without this. The account owner can get lists of all outbound calls of their victim's line if they share a plan.
The fcc requires some remediation if a domestic abuse order is submitted but obviously that's at the far end of the abuse cycle.
The issue here can be traced all the way to phone companies pushing the very concept of family plans because it makes churn more difficult.
An abuser can shut off their victim's phone line on a whim with convenient online interfaces.
Phone companies don't treat their customers will respect because their is no requirement. No one of adult age should be subjected to any of these controls simply because someone else pays.
The health industry has rules around this. The moment a child hits 18, their claims disappear and the parent loses access to medical records.
There is absolutely no reason phones should not have the same restrictions but the industry lacks the will and will until the fcc or other three letter agency forces the issue.
Agreed. My wife and I are both on iOS so there is no need for this feature. Our daughter when she is old enough for a cellphone, would be the one I'd use this for since she can't turn it off.
Unpopular opinion: Your kids do not actually have freedom if you're tracking them.
Even if it is "just for emergencies" and "we don't actually look at it".
I enjoyed a completely untracked childhood, and I will make damn sure my kids can have that too.
Just knowing that your parents trust you is a priceless feeling.
Unpopular opinion: Your kids do not actually have freedom if you’re tracking them.
This is just false, and your definition of 'freedom' is nothing but sophistry.
Not a new thing, and I can definitely see good uses for this information. What they should have done is made it so that the one being tracked gets a log and real time notification any time someone is tracking them. This would alleviate some of the toxic spying behavior simply by making it transparent rather than covert.
This is going to get DV victims killed. At least on phone tracking like iPhone's family sharing makes it clear it's happening and often has a way of disabling it when you make your final run for it allowing you to keep your phone.
In this context, DV probably means "domestic violence."
If someone asked the latter question, I'd think they're concerned for my well-being.
If somebody asked the former question, I'd think they're stalking me.
OP does not know about Life360.
At least the other has to install it of their own will
This isn't new, cell tower triangulation is a fact of the network operation and is part of how your signal gets handed off between towers as you travel. Airplane wouldn't do anything unless it where to actually disable the sim entirely, and functionally even that doesn't cut it in the USA given that a device without one can still connect to emergency services via any tower in reach.
This is just the carrier giving a customer the data that would already exist, for a price, which I thought T-Mo actually used to give for free...
The carrier can track a phone without sim card but it's not the case if you turn on airplane mode. The whole point of airplane mode is to prevent the phone from emitting any signal to avoid interference with critical aircraft instruments. I don't see any company risking to circumvent such a critical security feature, it would be easily verifiable.
I have been thinking about how or if I would track my own children. I do not have any at the moment though.
I think the only system that would work with tracking and still be ethical is a system with accountability.
They need to know that I would never check unless there was an emergency. So we'd have to have some sort of immutable log that they can check regularly. So they know if I checked their location. It should not be like a panopticon. in which they don't know if the parent is checking their location or not. That changes behaviour. Even with the trust that I would not check, just me having the option would alter behaviour probably.
Youth and kids are independent individuals with their own rights to privacy, autonomy, right to select their own friends and acquaintences, right to freedom of expression and movement, right to make mistakes, etc. If they are thought right and have a high trust bond with their parents, preferably with little judgement, then it will probably be fine and most issues can be solved.
A reciprocal arrangement would also work. My little terror will soon be at the point of having a mobile phone. My wife and I already share locations in real time. They will get the same arrangement. We can check on them, however, they can also check on our location. Moving on from this, in the future will be a negotiation, not an ultimatum.
It's also worth noting however, that a level of accountability is required with phones and social media for children. Knowing that mum or dad might go through their phone to check things makes them think about what they are doing. It is also required to make sure they don't err too badly. The key is to be open, clear and reasonable in your requirements of them. Also, never mock or belittle. To you, it might be a cute minor kids spat. To them, it's the life or death of their entire social life.
If you have a good relationship with your children, these will be a non-issues. Mutual respect (not fear) is a FAR better position to take, parenting wise.
Knowing that mum or dad might go through their phone to check things makes them think about what they are doing spend 5 minutes researching how to hide stuff. Better to rely on trust then on pure force alone
There's trust in intent and trust in judgement. My goal is to train them so that I can trust their intent. Any search will be to cover lapses in judgement. If they are hiding things, then that is intentional. If they have thought about it enough to hide it, then at least they have thought about it.
My intent is to spot things like grooming, or bullying (at a level they can't cope with). Things they might not understand the severity at the time. It gives us a nuclear option, it won't be used lightly.
Yeah making it optional for them to turn on because they are still entitled to privacy even though they are children is the key to building trust. Them trusting you as a parent is the most essential thing here, there is always a way around something, you want them being honest by choice rather than sneaky or you forcing "honesty" by coercion.
We always did that from when the kids were younger and my now adult daughter still chooses to turn it on when going on dates.
Didn't know there existed a crash detection function. I just share my location to her all the time. She does the same. Yeah I agree but I rather let my wife relax than not knowing. My point is that not all loses of privacy have to be bad.
De-googled projects get none of the benefit of being android, while all of the downfall of being android. So either use it or don't. It simply doesn't make any sense.
It's like buying a Tesla and then replacing all of the systems within it because you hate Tesla. Like, wtf. Why would you buy it then? End of the day its your money, do what you want, but still. What the fuck.
Same here even without dangerous activities. I may look up where my partner is at the end of the working day. Still in the office? May be a rough day, I can think about some nice dinner and serve a glass of wine 30 seconds before she comes back home.
Mmm I can see absolutely no way where they misuse this information
Find My and Google's device locator service exist, they're free and work without a carrier. Ik they're not that private, but you save money at least and they're more private than your carrier.
/s
But you need geolocation. This, at least, can track you scarily accurate. Cannot escape it except you have more money depending on which situation. (Like parents giving it for free to the child, so the only escape is to either have secretly a second phone with own carrier plan or be open and purchase your own carrier plan by gaslighting its needed)
Or maybe a prepaid SIM card where you top up your credit.
No Consent??
I'm sure that the "consent" is part of the terms and conditions when you sign up for a line on a family plan. Not that it's genuinely informed consent, or that people know what they agreed to, but technically...
Consent coming from those, that did not sign Tte contract obviously...
I understand wanting to do this as a parent, but I'm so thankful I grew up without cell phones. I would never track a teenager. I feel like teenagers need space to assert their own autonomy and form an identity apart from their parents. When I think of the best moments I had with friends, it's almost always something that would have technically gone against my parents' knowledge and wishes, even though my parents were very good to me overall.
Who said anything about teenagers? Kids too young to be left without supervision can now learn independence. So kids can be more independent at younger age compared to "good old times"!
I led with understanding, and I'm the one who mentioned teenagers in the comment I wrote with my own two hands
My kids don't even have phones, as they do not need them and they are unhealthy for the young brain's development.
I also don't use location services on my phones. Fuck all that tracking bullshit.
That's true but it's not in the same ballpark as GPS tracking. The phone company knows what county I'm in but probably not what businesses and municipal buildings I enter on foot unlike GPS location services. Bluetooth and Wifi are also disabled when I leave the house to minimize those being used for device tracking.
It's just good practice to disable all the unused wireless radios in your pocket computer. Don't turn them on until you need them on. It saves a lot of battery life too.
The phone company can get your location down to a few dozen feet depending on the number of 4G (50 to 70 metres) and 5G (10-50 metres) towers around.
A cheap dumbphone could come in handy at almost any age* (calls, short SMS, especially in emergency situations). Though there is a possibility they wouldn't want to be seen with that. Kids will bully each other for whatever isn't a norm.
Anyway, preferably a simpler one. I used to spend hours each day on Java games. Really, the only thing that stopped me was headaches.
* Almost any - you don't want a 3 year old calling 911 for fun
I grew up in a time before cell phones, I had a lot more freedom than your kids will ever experience. Crime rates were much higher back then by the way. I still survived even though my parents rarely knew where I was between 4 and 6 pm, but I was always home in time for dinner.
Your experience isn't necessarily universal.
For my generation it’s close to universal
Several kids from my elementary school disappeared, never to be heard from again. This happened again in middle school, and twice in high school.
Just because you weren't paying attention back then or don't remember now doesn't mean it didn't happen. As you said, crime was worse then.
Basically any time someone says "This didn't happen back in my day!" the response can be "the dead ones can't talk about it."
That's not how anecdotal evidence works. Just because you aren't aware of it being different for others doesn't mean it wasn't different for others.
aaand next time they'll leave their cell phone home to not get tracked, so not only do you not get their location, they can't even call you in an emergency
good parenting, i guess
These are great services. Insane that they charge for them but there are great use cases. Sorry kids, but parents need to know where you are.
Oh yeah, that's what parents need... Do you need some medical help?
No but my daughter does and knowing her mom and me can track her in the event of an emergency is a big relief for her and us. It lets her have more freedom and confidence then if we didn't have it
thanks for using Leebra!
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This is a useful feature. If you are in an abusive household, then yes you should have as much financial separation as possible. For those that are in a happy and functional family with kids that you want to allow freedom for, this provides a measure of safety if you need it for potential emergency's or if they aren't answering the phone or whatever.
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