👉wiki
Instructions: There are 72 objects on the table that one can use on me as desired.
Performance: I am the object. During this period I take full responsibility.
Duration: 6 hours (8pm–2am.) Studio Morra, Naples
TIL of RHYTHM 0 : A performance art piece in which Marina Abramović stood still for six hours while the audience could do whatever they wanted to her.
3 years ago by useless_modern_god to c/til
👉wiki
Instructions: There are 72 objects on the table that one can use on me as desired.
Performance: I am the object. During this period I take full responsibility.
Duration: 6 hours (8pm–2am.) Studio Morra, Naples
ahem... rugged individualists*
In name only. A true individualist knows you're responsible for your own fucking behaviors..
what always stand out to me every time I come across this story is the person who took the gun away
What would you even do? If I saw this as an advertised event, I wouldn't go. Neither participating or spectating sounds very interesting. Only psychopaths are going to show up.
This sums it up for me. An invitation can be open to everyone, but the activity they're being invited to will determine what sort of people show up. When I read, "Come and do whatever you like to an unresisting human who will sit still for six hours," I immediately turn away--not just because I'm not interested in "doing whatever I like" to a person, but because I don't want to be in a room with the crowd of people that I imagine would want to do whatever they like to a person.
The authorities should recreate this act to use as a honeypot to identify all the psychos in society.
The British have something similar at Buckingham palace. Theirs these guards that just stand around being motionless as possible which attracts people who want to do funny shit to them. They attempt funny shit and get arrested
We already have systems in place to funnel ask the sociopaths into positions where they can be monitored by everyone. It's called capitalism and politics.
It was real and loaded. The actor was commited to any outcome including being murdered on stage.
The audience first tested the waters and gradually escalated to more extreme forms of violence. When the violence started the audience factionalized into those who were committed to stopping her from being shot, arguing and shaming aggressors or physically stepping in.
While I don't know if I can condone the piece ethically it certainly says more about human nature than most art pieces.
Weirdly I don't know if I could class her as a "poor woman" ? She was the one who set up all the objects on the table which included ones that were potentially lethal and she specified the parameters of the piece and very specifically could have stopped the performance at any time by moving of her own volition and speaking. She went into it accepting her own murder as a potential outcome and was committed to carrying on regardless of what happened. It being an art peice would not have protected a participant from a murder charge while assult charges have to be made by the victim of the assault... So there was at least that.
While she may not have been able to account for the long term psychological effects and may have had some initial optimism that people would not choose the darker options made available... I think terming her a "poor woman" might actually be dismissive of the actual volition and personal grit she had in the construction and performance of the piece? While it may have been ballsy to the point bordering madness dangerous stunt performances where athletes risk death for their audiences are a thing and those performers go in with the same expectation of potential fatality.
Wow she stood still while someone slashed her throat to drink her blood. That’s commitment.
The stuff they did boggles my mind such as cutting her with thorns, sexual assault. I don’t understand do they think because it’s “art” it isn’t a fucked up thing to do to a person?
I wonder if it’s supposed to be part of the “art” - to show how depraved humans can be given a chance to do it scot-free.
I always felt like this was the whole point of the performance
Yeah, that's pretty much the point of this sort of endurance art.
I agree she was prepared for it and expected it but still fucked. She didn’t tell them to be cruel…she just said they were allowed to. Reminds me of the Stanford prison experiment where you kind of give people a tacit permission to be evil…so they do and then we are confronted with the aftermath. I just can’t imagine I could cause someone’s skin to bleed purposefully and not feel awful…
Not the same but related…this guy was shot as an art piece
The Stanford prison experiment couldn't be replicated and the data are widely considered useless in psychologist community. Basically someone wanted to be famous so they created a shocking but fake study.
The Stanford Prison Experiment was a sham and couldn't be replicated.
This Art project still seems gruesome....
No shit she knew what they were going to do. That was the point. She was making a point about how inhumane people become when they think there are no consequences for their actions.
Even if the gun was loaded with a blank, at any distance where she can be the one holding it (assuming it's aimed at her) a blank would still do serious damage. When a blank is fired, solid propellant typically is ejected as well as ignited propellant and metal shavings. Too close and a blank is almost like birdshot.
Brandon Lee was killed by a blank on the set of The Crow, wasn't he?
You're assuming a full-strength blank, like they use in Hollywood. It could be a round with little/no powder. That would show if someone fired, but would not actually be capable of harm.
At least the gun was deactivated.
so I realize this is probably a controversial take, but is it really sexual assault in this case. She did consent to „everything“ basically
It's a controversial take that has been the subject of all sorts of debate and even legislation. Some countries don't accept sweeping consent legally for anything, some people/groups think consent must be sought, etc.
She did not explicitly state that she was OK with being touched sexually. Nor did she say she was OK being cut. She said anything goes but I believe monkey paw rules of language apply here. I would argue that the whole point here is that different people take the "permission" to different levels. I personally would never do anything to someone that I would not want done to myself unless and perhaps not even if they gave explicit permission. Here only implicit permission is given and the audience decided how far it went. Your point might have stood if there was some explicitly stated agreement that asexual acts are ok, but frankly I believe it is clear here that it does count as a violation at minimum.
I dunno. I admire the idealism in your attitude here, but realistically we have to look at the words she herself used: "Instructions: There are 72 objects on the table that one can use on me as desired. Performance: I am the object. During this period I take full responsibility."
It strikes me that this quite explicitly states that there are no limits. I'm honestly somewhat surprised that she wasn't more seriously assaulted.
Ya, some things come to mind I'd normally call victim blaming but she basically invited people to fuck with her. If being assaulted in multiple ways didn't cross her mind she was living in a fantasy world. Groups of people are terrible, the larger the group the more terrible they are. One person will push a boundary and then another will take it further, so on and so forth until it's just.... Mob mentality is a real thing and it's not when you see the best of humanity.
I mean - that's the point though, right?
She probably knew it would be bad, it went further than she expected. It's still art.
Like how you climb a mountain, it goes bad, you lose a hand but survive, no (sane) person is like, "good."
The point of this art is to show what humans become when they reduce a fellow person to an object.
Every person that harmed her in any way is fundamentally a bad person, but also shares a quality with all of us in that we can all choose to become that person at any time.
The goal of art like this is to get people to reflect upon these innate mentalities, not hopeful denial of their existence.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. She didn't set any limits and told them to do what they wanted to her. Amazing it wasn't worse in the end.
I agree but only in the most cold technical sense. That isn't what consent is supposed to look like though. If someone verbally consents but looks uncomfortable you should have the slightest shred of empathy to check in on them or wonder if they feel pressured to consent for whatever reason.
I think legal semantics might just be beside the point. I believe she knew the possibility was there and accepted it, but the answer she was looking for is "how far does it go" when a person essentially publicly forfeits their rights. Blanket consent, the forfeiture of those rights, they don't fundamentally change that this is a person.
They are doing it because they can.
It probably means that they would do that to anyone is they know there will be no repercussions. Like someone who is passed out drunk or a child.
I agree. I guess I understand the argument that if someone says “hey I’m going to come up here and I want everyone to hurt me, physically and sexually” then people do…it isn’t wrong. But I just can’t stomach it. Maybe I’m a prude. I guess it’s legal for consenting adults. And I guess it should be legal…
I can't believe how there wasn't a single person in the audience who tried to stop anyone. Other than the person who took the gun away from her head. Still. No one stopped the people trying to injure or assault her. No one called anyone out? It's sickening.
I can't believe how there wasn't a single person in the audience who tried to stop anyone
Yeah, that's not what's written in the Wikipedia article.
Faced with her abdication of will, with its implied collapse of human psychology, a protective group began to define itself in the audience. When a loaded gun was thrust to Marina's head and her own finger was being worked around the trigger, a fight broke out between the audience factions.
I should stop trying to read things when I haven't slept.
Now I'm wondering why the entire audience fled when she finally moved. No one stuck around to ask if she needed help or anything?
It may be sickening, but it is what any human being would do, given the right circumstances. To be human is to be susceptible to do this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
but it is what any human being would do, given the right circumstances.
Bullshit. The experiment you linked isn't even close to what this is:
They measured the willingness of study participants, 40 men in the age range of 20 to 50 from a diverse range of occupations with varying levels of education, to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts conflicting with their personal conscience.
Participants were led to believe that they were assisting an unrelated experiment, in which they had to administer electric shocks to a "learner".
The people who violate the performer aren't instructed, in any way, by an authority figure, and the act isn't conflicting with their personal believe. They are psychopath.
You just want to excuse your own bad behaviour.
This is more bystander effect than submission to authority.
From Wiki article: "When the gallery announced the work was over, and Abramović began to move again, she said the audience left, unable to face her as a person"
It worked, they really saw her as an object
And now that you know part of the story, please don't stop checking out this unknown gem:
https://youtu.be/GXyq2xUmsVQ
We deserve more Cate Blanchett in comedy roles
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/GXyq2xUmsVQ
https://piped.video/GXyq2xUmsVQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Nice thank you. I watched it over dinner 🌭
"Do with me what you want" They proceed to do with her what they want
Surprised pikachu face<
Clearly staged because no-one drew a spunking cock on her forehead.
This is really disturbing. People in general are awful, that's my take away.
Sure they are, but the layer beyond that is that they wanted to test the boundaries. She told them anything goes, which means on some level she wanted the freaky shit, and participants didn't want to disappoint.
Absolutely. The number of people in the comments who have missed the whole point of this piece is staggering.
It's performative endurance art. Marina was very much hoping and intending to make a statement on the human condition and the flexible limits of our morality. The audience played their part perfectly.
I know that some of you are outraged at the whole thing, but remember that art can't hurt you, the viewer. Art is supposed to make you feel things. And subsequently, you should have sufficient emotional intelligence to analyse and challenge those emotions and the ethical and moral preconceptions they stem from.
I'm glad I don't get it on that level. Hopefully I never will.
I don't think you have to worry about that ☺️
Is this what Shia LeBouf was copying?
That's honestly mortifying.
I prefer this performance that she also did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEcqoqvlxPY
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=mEcqoqvlxPY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Didn't Yoko Ono do something similar?
She sat on a stage and let audience members cut off pieces of her clothing with scissors.
Not her tongue , unfortunately
I never saw the issue with Yoko Ono. I think she's pretty funny.
Is this the new schizophrenic neckbeard copypasta?
No need to share them with anyone but a professional.
Not normal thoughts, bud. Not trying to judge you but maybe speak to a therepist?
@Franzia @CaptFeather these are things you say to your therapist, so you can talk these thoughts out and sort out what's positive, and what's negative, and why you feel this way. And learning to identify the things you might say that make people around you uncomfortable or worse
Because you've seen here you're making people uncomfortable at best
Trust me. I rarely say the things that go through my head. Not like this, I couldn't witness it. There are just things one shouldn't say out loud
You're ELI5 but I already said I had success in therapy.
identify the things you might say that make people around you uncomfortable
therapy didnt teach me social skills or masking. As far as I have been told, masking is worse for my mental health.
There are just things one shouldn't say out loud
I literally said I would like take care of this artist rather than harm her. And then I said I have to be protective because people frequently trust me. Listen I know I sound a bit crazy but see past the aesthetics at the real arguments I am making.
Essentially true but thoroughly reductive. Like saying "live music is all about saying look at me play all these notes"
Well yea, but you have to play the right notes in the right way. This is more like bringing an philharmonic orchestra to stage and not playing a single note. Actually, that would be much more creative than this.
You're missing the point entirely. It's supposed to make you feel emotional, and to give you the opportunity to challenge those feelings and understand where those emotions are rooted.
Art is all about challenging your preconceptions, and yet you can't seem to get over your preconception that art itself is worthless lmao
@lemmy.world
We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**
Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
That's it.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.
Let everyone have their own content.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
go to feed...
@lemmy.world
We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**
Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
That's it.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.
Let everyone have their own content.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
go to feed...
I swear so many people are actual psychopaths and just good at hiding it.
save