“Whether you like it, or not, history is on our side. We will bury you,” he said quoting former USSR leader Nikita Khrushchev.
Russian politician Dmitry Medvedev said on Tuesday Russia could have a right to go to war with NATO.
SupraMario 91 points 3 years ago
The toys we're sharing are our older toys from the 80s and 90s even. Its not even the more deadly stuff we have...and they're fighting against a force that's getting a few weeks training on these toys and sent out into the field. If russia truly wants a 72 hour war...all it would need to do is attack NATO.
InverseParallax 10 points 3 years ago
A squadron of f-22s could take down most air forces.
An air wing of f-22s could probably beat all other air forces combined, with the possible exception of china, though damn they would need to figure out how to keep reloaded.
The USAF is the strongest air force in the world.
The second strongest is the US navy Air wing.
Think the marines are 4.
Edit: this is an old listing, and russia was #3, so I think we actually have the trifecta.
c0mbatbag3l 3 points 3 years ago
At one point I believe the Navy had more aircraft total than the AF, but they had them beat in specialization. AF does the heavy lift jobs, stealth, and up until recently, space launches and satellites. I think Navy and Marine F-18's fly more sorties though.
SupraMario 3 points 3 years ago
Yea I feel like all the charts with russia on them need to be redrawn... it's clearly noticable at this point they've been a paper military.
NewNewAccount 6 points 3 years ago
Is the F-22 that much more capable?
What about the F-35? Did its issues ever get resolved?
flying_monkies 17 points 3 years ago
Is the F-22 that much more capable?
Yes, it is.
The most successful jet fighter of the modern era is the F15 with a combat record of 104-0.
In combat against F15s, the F22 is 41-1.
Candelestine 18 points 3 years ago
72? Pretty generous. I'm pretty sure we have more HARM missiles than they do S400 SAM batteries.
FuglyDuck 6 points 3 years ago
It’s not the war, it’s the keeping.
In any case, we’d probably bog down around the same time China and everyone else on that side got involved. I don’t think it would be as clean or as quick. But, yeah. We could definitely screw them pretty harshly without ever landing troops
Candelestine 26 points 3 years ago
China and Russia have no military alliance, Xi is just taking advantage of the fantastic business opportunity that opened up for him for cheap Russian imports. If Chinese troops became militarily involved in Russian territory, it would probably be to acquire their claims over eastern Siberia, dating back to the Qing Dynasty. Otherwise he's just be supporting a state that competes with him for the dominant regional position.
The Tsar took that land from them, back in the day though. If you look at their current claimed territories, they never forgot. Maybe if Russia agreed to become a subject state of China, then they'd help militarily, but they're certainly not friends or allies.
Russia does have actual allies, but not many. And China isn't one of them.
snooggums 10 points 3 years ago
We don't need to occupy Russia to stop them from continuing a war that they start. We can just destroy their equipment and manufacturing locations so their armed forces surrender.
bluGill 4 points 3 years ago
There isn't anyone really on that side . China and NATO have differences, but China doesn't have anything to gain from helping Russia, and nthey lose a lot is NATO loses. They will sit out. Similar with India, they will stay out . Iran or a few other small counties might consider joining, but I doubt it as most are smart enough to know that is suicide.
InverseParallax 2 points 3 years ago
This sounds like a job for science!
wintermute_oregon 20 points 3 years ago path: 0 2952731 2954370, hotness: undefined, score: 20, children: 5
uphillbothways 6 points 3 years ago
Total posturing. A few hundred of these would end the war overnight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-158_JASSM
These aren't even classified. Poland and Finland have them, today.
Ukraine is keeping Russia in check with cardboard launched grenades. It's pretty amazing, honestly; both how innovative Ukraine has been under duress with almost nothing, and how bad Russia has performed in this mess they've dumped themselves in.
A few too many toes over NATO lines would decapitate the Kremlin, probably before anything could be done in response.
wintermute_oregon 3 points 3 years ago path: 0 2952731 2954370 2964198 2966024, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1
uphillbothways 1 point 3 years ago
That stealth missle I linked, there's a CHAMP payload designed for it that fries any electronics...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...
Launchers, guidance systems, communications, all of it. Should be able to be handled, if any of it even works anymore.
Omniraptor 1 point 3 years ago
I just don't understand why the americans can't decide their stance while sitting on these wonderful advanced weapons. Either give Ukraine enough equipment to win or tell them to get lost and give up territory in exchange for peace. One risks escalation with Russia or if things go too well collapse of russia, the other risks discrediting the rules based international order (lmao).
But the status quo with delayed/half assed aid shipments is costing thousands of Ukrainian (and Russian, but who cares lol) soldiers' lives for pretty dam questionable outcomes.
agent_flounder 2 points 3 years ago
And at full scale. This is definitely typical Russian posturing, ie total bullshit that everyone knows is bullshit but they say it anyway.
Semi-Hemi-Demigod 93 points 3 years ago
Good news then: If you go to war with one NATO member you get war with the rest of them absolutely free!
baldingpudenda 1 point 3 years ago
They have the right to, but not the capability
Burninator05 3 points 3 years ago
And we've seen what third tier NATO gear did to Russia. Wait until they see the second string stuff.
echodot 61 points 3 years ago
Whether you like it, or not, history is on our side. We will bury you
Because we all know the Soviet Union and Russia are exactly the same thing and the Russian military is definitely as powerful and as capable as the Soviet Union, no doubt. Please pay no attention to the complete lack of victory in Ukraine.
Earthwormjim91 21 points 3 years ago
When has either the Soviet Union or Russia “won” anything in the last 150 years?
Their “win” in WWII was throwing as many bodies as possible and starving their own cities to delay the Germans long enough for winter to set in.
Soviet casualties were 4.5x higher than Axis casualties in operation Barbarossa. They lost 21k aircraft to 2800 for the Germans. 20k tanks destroyed vs 2700 for the Germans. And 4.5 million casualties compared to 1 million for the Germans.
I wouldn’t call that “burying” anyone. The biggest effect it had was weakening the Germans enough for the Allies to finish the job on the Western Front and bail the Soviets out.
The Soviets lost in Afghanistan in the 80s because of the US funding the Mujahideen.
Their biggest victory in the last century was taking Crimea because nobody else stepped up to help Ukraine like we are now.
Russia has nukes. That’s it. Beyond that they’re worthless militarily.
ThatWeirdGuy1001 46 points 3 years ago
Ah yes it's making Russia so much money which is why their economy is in perfect condition and the ruble is worth more than ever!
HonoraryMancunian 10 points 3 years ago
I think they're at least partially right, Russia's strategy appears to be throw as many men at the problem to keep the front line stalemate going in the hopes the Western donations eventually dry up, then throw even more men at Ukraine until they can win. An obvious pyrrhic victory to most, but when did hundreds of thousands of deaths and a decimated economy ever trump expansionism for Putin and his cronies?
thepianistfroggollum 1 point 3 years ago
So, what. Their official currency is the Yuan now?
thepianistfroggollum 9 points 3 years ago
Lol
thepianistfroggollum 5 points 3 years ago
At the fact that you're either a Russian troll or an idiot that fell for a Russian troll.
theacharnian 58 points 3 years ago
Maxim Katz has explained that these kinds of deranged declarations are not directed at us. They are a kind of symbolic self-humiliation of Medvedev to prove to Putin that he is still loyal. It's "look I am willing to appear so wretched and ridiculous to the foreigners, I could not possibly be a threat to you, I am not some kind of alternative that could replace you, I am such a silly man, please don't throw me out of a window".
Epilektoi_Hoplitai 18 points 3 years ago
Speculation runs that Dimi has been told by the Tsar that if he acts like the tough guy he isn't with enough bravado, he'll be allowed to sit in the big boys' chair and pretend to be president again.
blue_zephyr 41 points 3 years ago
War has fuck-all to do with rights. If you're going to attack a NATO country we will beat your ass back into the stone age without mercy, your nukes won't save you if you dare cross that line.
c0mbatbag3l 4 points 3 years ago
No but they'll sure kill a lot of us, whichever ones still fire and hit their marks at least. Who's to say if they've maintained their stock over the decades.
And the citizens will be told the whole time about how it's some plot to destroy them as people, to stoke the flames.
An actual war with Russia wouldn't end well for anyone short of having an internal coup with an actual plan for government afterwards instead of this slow handoff of power from one authoritarian dictator to the next.
c0mbatbag3l 1 point 3 years ago
Don't confuse the requirement of lack of intelligence with the willingness of a person willing to drag the world to hell as they're being taken down.
Chariotwheel 38 points 3 years ago
So has Denmark.
Though it would be funny ig Russia didn't. Imagine Putin declaring war on Poland and Poland just saying "no, it's against the law."
Gleddified 12 points 3 years ago
Being invaded? Just say no - they legally cannot take your territory without your consent.
random_character_a 7 points 3 years ago
It will be the special special operation.
TubeTalkerX 3 points 3 years ago
Special Operation 2: Electric Nazi-loo
Red_October 37 points 3 years ago
I mean... he's not wrong? They could have a war with NATO any time they wanted it. Russia could have war with NATO whenever they want it. They've been very careful to not actually DO that, of course. Last thing they need is to start losing another one with someone who won't have any difficulty in bringing the full conflict right to them.
LeftSaidFred 24 points 3 years ago
It's a very "hold me back, bros" sentiment. Only his bro, singular, is Belarus.
ImpossibleRubiksCube 12 points 3 years ago path: 0 2966192 2966656, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 1
charliespider 2 points 3 years ago
You jest now but that's only because you're not staring down the barrel of a T64 that's run out of gas because the crew sold their reserves on the black market for vodka.
charliespider 4 points 3 years ago
Clown shows don't count as wars
HamSwagwich 33 points 3 years ago
They can't even fight a small country like Ukraine and they want to test the might of a fully armed and optional Battlestaion NATO alliance? Do they believe that anyone really believes them?
theacharnian 14 points 3 years ago
Ukraine is no small country, either in terms of area or population.
HamSwagwich -3 points 3 years ago
Lol what?
Ukraine is tiny. It's roughly the same size as Texas and has roughly the same population as California. Alaska is larger than Ukraine.
Its the functional equivalent of Russia trying to invade Texas and failing. It's a massive embarrassment for a former super power that likely can't ever be recovered from.
I'm going to guess you are European, as I've found most Europeans don't understand the size of countries outside of Europe.
Bluehood380 5 points 3 years ago
My brother in Christ, we, as a nation, have really big states bruh
kartonrealista 4 points 3 years ago
Most countries around the world have a population smaller than California. The US is just really big. Even then, California alone has about 12% of the entire population of the US, the third most populated country.
theacharnian 3 points 3 years ago
Ukraine is tiny. It’s roughly the same size as Texas.
TIL that Texas is tiny.
Listen buddy, you seem to think that if we say that Ukraine is not a small country, that somehow gives Russia glory or something. That's silly.
PS. I'm Canadian, if that means anything in this context.
HamSwagwich -2 points 3 years ago
Texas IS tiny when you compare it against the size of a country that isn't in Europe.
As to the rest of your message... I have no idea what you are even trying to say
RememberTheApollo_ 31 points 3 years ago
And everyone has the right to shoot back. Not sure why such a declaration comes across as so one sided.
notatoad 7 points 3 years ago
i doubt they want to take it that far, but i've got to assume at least some of putin's cronies are thinking if they goad him into something stupid enough, they can get rid of him and take over for themselves.
Paranoidfactoid 2 points 3 years ago
That's a 'The Mouse That Roared' strategy.
Badass_panda 29 points 3 years ago
I mean... I can't see any issue with NATO not stopping Ukraine from invading its own territory... the territory the UN recognizes as part of Ukraine... and which Russia signed three separate treaties promising to respect as part of Ukraine.
vzq 4 points 3 years ago
Not doubting you for a second, but can you point me to the treaties? I seem to have to convince people over and over on this service that Ukraine is an independent country with recognized international borders.
Badass_panda 25 points 3 years ago
Yes of course... Russia acknowledged Ukraine's borders and territorial integrity when:
Ukraine was admitted to the UN in 1945 with its current borders (which Russia could have vetoed).
Ukraine's sovereign status and territorial integrity were guaranteed in the Belovezha Accords in 1991, which recognized the dissolution of the USSR and the borders and sovereignty of the former member states.
Ukraine agreed to transfer control of its 4,700 nuclear weapons to the Russian Federation in exchange for guarantees by the US, UK, and Russian Federation that they would not threaten to use (or use) military force against Ukraine... in the Budapest Memorandum in 1996.
Russia specifically recognized Ukraine's sovereignty in Crimea when Ukraine agreed to lease it military bases there (and split the Black Sea fleet, stationed in Crimea, 50/50 in 1997) in the Partition Treaty.
The two countries agreed not to declare war on one another, to treat each other's territory as inviolable and to prohibit the use of military force to resolve any future territorial disputes in the same year's Treaty of Friendship.
Russia agreed to "final borders" in January 2003 (which include Crimea, Kherson, etc)
As you know, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014; they signed a ceasefire in 2015 once again confirming Ukraine's territorial integrity, but this was almost immediately violated, so I'm not sure I'd even count it.
Hope it helps. The three that were top of mind for me were 1991, 1996, and 2003.
okamiueru 11 points 3 years ago
One of them is the Budapest Memorandum
Not sure which are the other to. Perhaps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon_Protocol
It's always fascinating to hear Putin talk about "history", and "denazification". You know the truth, so you can observe a mad man lying, and perhaps believing it. Like a child telling an obvious lie, convinced he pulled it off. Except, much less cute and a lot more terrifying.
vzq 6 points 3 years ago
The point of the lie isn’t to convince. Everyone knows it’s not true. The point of the lie is to make others repeat it, proving that they value your favor more than they value the truth.
It’s a loyalty test.
Badass_panda 3 points 3 years ago
I listed them in another comment in reply to the question... i wasn't even including the Lisbon protocol, wild.
Pringles 29 points 3 years ago
Nobody is stopping them from exercising that right against any NATO country. What about Poland? They have been a historical nuisance, Dimi. Just shoot a rocket at a farm somewhere, but make it intentional this time.
cabron_offsets 28 points 3 years ago path: 0 2953126, hotness: undefined, score: 28, children: 3
cabron_offsets 8 points 3 years ago path: 0 2953126 2961341 2962501, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 1
IchNichtenLichten 26 points 3 years ago
“Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?” - Mr. Blonde.
Pons_Aelius 25 points 3 years ago
A house cat has the right to attack a lion as well...
Chariotwheel 1 point 3 years ago path: 0 2952587 2953331, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
BeautifulMind 24 points 3 years ago
Well, yeah. Everyone has the right to make bad decisions
TheGreenGolem 22 points 3 years ago
Sure. And the mouse has the right to war with the elephant. But it's not a very clever thing to do.
InvertedParallax 21 points 3 years ago
... I mean, ok?
Come get some.
peopleproblems 8 points 3 years ago
You know, it makes me wonder if we'd even need troops in the conflict zone. We probably can use drones and satellite to find the enemy, then use drones to elimate them. It's not asymmetrical warfare like Afghanistan or Iraq.
WiildFiire 20 points 3 years ago
How are they gonna have time to bury anybody when they're busy burying hundreds of thousands of citizens they force to go to war for them?
phoenixz 19 points 3 years ago
Just claiming you have the right doesn't mean you actually have the right. Ask January 6 trumpers for more information on that subject.
On another point: just because you can doesn't mean you should. You can kick a Lion in the balls but that doesn't make it a great idea.
Then again, I'm sure Russia's leadership knows this and right now is just posing like an 8th grader bragging about his uncle being a navy seal because holy shit, Russia is fuuuuuuucked.
For the next decades it will be busy pulling itself together, trying to rebuild an international economy that doesn't rely 100% on unsustainable practices of just selling all it's minerals, getting rid of the reputation that Putin gave it, trying to rebuild a military that isn't the laughing stock of the world... And all that is assuming that the country doesn't fall apart, doesn't dove into civil war and that say, china doesn't decide it likes the taste ofmsome of the pieces that are left.
Russia is fubar, and right now Ukraine is the victim, butt within this decade, the innocent Russian citizens will be the victims of it all
theacharnian 3 points 3 years ago
I deeply despise the nationalist gangsters that make up the Russian elite, but this blaming of "Russian citizens" is either incredibly stupid or downright fascist. What do you propose to do to 116 million people (80% of 146 million) as punishment for ...approving Putin? What kind of court are you envisioning? What kind of procedure for establishing what kind of guilt? And even if we do accept the utterly moronic idea that there is guilt in a population like that, how do you separate the guilty from the remaining 30 million "innocent" people? Or is the arbitrary "punishment" of 30 million innocents an inconvenient side-effect of your spite?
reverendsteveii 18 points 3 years ago
Krushchev is an interesting person to quote here. Wasn't he stripped of power by an empire that would utterly collapse within 20 years of his death?
Aux -12 points 3 years ago
Haha what? Russian economy only dipped by 2% during 2022, that's less than during the pandemic. IMF says it will actually see a healthy growth in 2023. Also Russian government can run at deficit for decades to boost economy even further. Simply because they have one of the lowest debts in the world. And don't forget - most of the world don't give a heck about the war and continues to trade with Russia. Sanctions only made Russia a very attractive partner for many countries like India and China, which are now buying craploads of oil, gas and other resources.
FlyingSquid 1 point 3 years ago
How much is the Ruble worth again? Fractionally less or fractionally more than a U.S. penny? I forget.
Widowmaker_Best_Girl 17 points 3 years ago
Okay...? Why would you want to though? Just want to kill a lot of people for no other reason than, "but I have the right to!"
Buddahriffic 15 points 3 years ago
Going to war isn't about rights. Rights are a soft power thing while war is purely about hard power. What is he even trying to say here? Like if there was a right and lack of a right to war, what would they look like? What would the functional difference between the two be?
Seasoned_Greetings 10 points 3 years ago
It's psyops, nothing more. They perceive it as "playing the west's game" in a double bid to stoke their own citizens and trip up NATO counterparts by using "western" language against them.
The right in this context is invented: A projection of hard power through the lip service of soft power.
onionbaggage 13 points 3 years ago
Feel free to exercise that right at your convenience
GreenMario 13 points 3 years ago
Ha! Your mouth is writing checks your ass can't cash.
I wish a motherfucker would tho.
flying_monkies 12 points 3 years ago
🎶Dumb ways to die 🎶
randon31415 12 points 3 years ago
Has everyone in Russia forgotten about mutual assured destruction? Or are they old and susceptible to COVID and just plan to take everyone else with them?
c0mbatbag3l 3 points 3 years ago
Surely they're not insane enough to think they could win at sea or land against multiple first world nations.
random_character_a 11 points 3 years ago
So Dmitry. Found something to say from the bottom of the bottle again, eh?
NigelFrobisher 10 points 3 years ago
He knows Glasgow is part of NATO, right? No-one sane is offering that lot outside.
CookieJarObserver 9 points 3 years ago path: 0 2983256, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
rusticus 8 points 3 years ago
Given how reliable their "advanced weaponry" has been in Ukraine, I expect many of their nucks are non functional so if they go to war, Russia will become a giant radioactive hole while the rest of the world will escape annihilation. Can somebody please just take out Putin FFS?
DauntingFlamingo -7 points 3 years ago
Nah man. Nobody wants that. Are you willing to let it be you that gets nuked? Your family, your children, your home?
DauntingFlamingo -1 points 3 years ago
So you first advocate for nuclear weapons to be used, and then you say just kill Putin. I'm not sure how the last sentence excuses the other sentence
itscozydownhere 7 points 3 years ago
Sure Buddy
WtfEvenIsExistence 7 points 3 years ago path: 0 2954926, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0
ladananton450 7 points 3 years ago
I'd like to see you do that, mr. Medvedev.
PinkPanther 2 points 3 years ago
Why do you want a third world war?
TopShelfVanilla 2 points 3 years ago
Eh, maybe a nuclear winter will help stave off some of this global warming.
_haha_oh_wow_ 6 points 3 years ago
Good luck with that...
autotldr 6 points 3 years ago
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The former Russian Prime Minister - widely seen as a stopgap for Vladimir Putin - repeatedly takes to social media to write provocative and inflammatory statements about the Ukraine war and its Western allies.
In Tuesday's tweet, Medvedev warned the "apocalypse" was "drawing nearer", quoting biblical verse and old Soviet leaders.
“We are remembered until we stand in the others’ way,” attributed to Vladimir Lenin, who led the Bolshevik Revolution and was the first leader and founder of the Soviet Union.
Medvedev, Russia's Deputy Chairman of the Security Council, ended the tweet with a notorious quote from former USSR leader Nikita Khrushchev made to Western ambassadors in 1956, which reads: "Whether you like it, or not, history is on our side.
Most of Medvedev's past threats have rung hollow or provoked ridicule online from large numbers of social media users.
He added Poland was "temporarily occupied", alluding to NATO presence inside the country, which includes 10,000 American troops, according to AP.
The original article contains 629 words, the summary contains 160 words. Saved 75%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
ImpossibleRubiksCube 4 points 3 years ago path: 0 2966565, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
ChunkMcHorkle 4 points 3 years ago
deleted by creator
Cleverdawny 4 points 3 years ago
The only way the Russian army would bury NATO is in the collective wave of shit which would emanate from their pants if they actually faced real Western military action
agitatedpotato 4 points 3 years ago
But do you have the ability?
vzq 4 points 3 years ago
Except they really don’t. There’s no casus belli that passes the smell test.
kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E 2 points 3 years ago
Look who is back from alcohol coma
complacent_jerboa 1 point 3 years ago
I'm torn between "oh yeah? that's crazy" and "oh god we're all going to nuke each other"
rooaslp2000 -11 points 3 years ago path: 0 2965222, hotness: undefined, score: -11, children: 1
luckyhunter -23 points 3 years ago
Technically he's correct about the right, NATO agreed not to expand east back in the day and then violated that. I haven't seen the evidence that they could bury everyone though.
mea_rah 11 points 3 years ago
The topic of 'NATO expansion' was never discussed; it was not raised in those years. I am saying this with a full sense of responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country brought up the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact had ceased to exist in 1991. -- Gorbachev
So yeah this is another case of russia bending history to fuel their victim complex.
luckyhunter -10 points 3 years ago
Yes they did. Stop believing Social media trash propaganda you support.
severien 11 points 3 years ago
It's written right in your article:
None of NATO’s pledges to the leaders of the Soviet Union have been written down in any agreement, signed by the two parties and codified. Indeed, no one claims to have such a document.
luckyhunter -4 points 3 years ago
Read past the first line.
luckyhunter 1 point 3 years ago
no, but technically yes! Not like Russia needs to justify anything based on truth if that's what they decide to do anyway though.
dub 3 points 3 years ago
Technically yes isn't yes tho. I mean Russia will do anything to justify itself. The difference between NATO expansion and Russian expansion, Russia engages military operations while countries are trying to join NATO to protect themselves from Russia
luckyhunter 0 points 3 years ago
Oh yeah, and it's just propaganda. If your home is being bombed and country being invaded does it matter the motive? not really.
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For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/...
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
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I wonder… does medvedev have enough wits left to understand that if Russia has that right… then everyone … has that right?
They’re finding Ukraine difficult enough. Sure we’re sharing some toys (a lot of toys)… but they don’t have carriers or attack subs or missile destroyers…
Threatening nato is not a sane decision to make. We might just take them at their word.
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