This comment is better written than the game itself.
OutlierBlue 96 points 3 years ago
OutlierBlue 13 points 3 years ago
No, the other one.
eochaid 4 points 3 years ago
If you like Bethesda games, you're gonna like this one. If you don't like Bethesda games, you're not going to like this one. I don't know what else to tell you, bud.
Don't mistake the bitching of a vocal minority of lemmy/reddit posters and YouTube influencers (who bitch primarily for clicks) as "everyone". There are actually a lot of people who like these games - myself included - and a lot of them aren't on any sort of social media. I loved vanilla Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim, and Fallout 4 and love modded versions even more. I'm having a blast with vanilla Starfield right now - easily dozens of hours over the long weekend. And I'll probably love modded Starfield even more as well.
qwertyWarlord 1 point 3 years ago
Str8 facts
dingus 184 points 3 years ago
I don't get it.
People wanted another Bethesda game.
They got what they wanted.
I said in 2008, after playing the first Fallout game by Bethesda instead of Black Isle: "Only Bethesda could manage to make a post apocalyptic prostitute boring."
They've always been boring, they've always had ugly character models, and the writing has always been bad. You get what you paid for. A Bethesda game.
Ertebolle 71 points 3 years ago
I think the fundamental problem is that people had different expectations for a game set in space, both because Bethesda stoked them (all of that talk of having the idea decades ago / first new franchise in however many years / Microsoft bought the company just to get it as an exclusive / etc) and because after No Man's Sky people kind of expected that with their budget / resources they would manage to fix that game's problems and create something richer + more seamless.
In retrospect, if they'd simply sold it as "Skyrim in Space," admitted to the limitations up front - same underlying engine, limited amount of variety to procedurally-generated content, loading screens instead of seamless takeoff/landing, etc - and not pretended that it was something new, the response would have probably been much more uniformly positive.
RightHandOfIkaros 57 points 3 years ago
But they kind of already did say most of that stuff.
They said long before the game came out that there was no seamless takeoff/landing. They said they upgraded their Creation Engine for Starfield, AFAIK they never said it was entirely new.
Either way, I like it. Its fun.
RightHandOfIkaros -12 points 3 years ago
The only people I have seen complaining about it are here on Lemmy. Which honestly, the more time I spend here, I almost feel like its more negative than Reddit was. Maybe its the low population, maybe its bot astroturfing, I dont know. But its really unfortunate this place has really gone downhill.
Ertebolle 7 points 3 years ago
Hmm, I missed that about seamless takeoff/landing. But as @dingus mentions, you can use cutscenes and animations and other things to make that feel more immersive / continuous even if they are temporarily dropping you out of the engine.
Cornelius_Wangenheim 19 points 3 years ago path: 0 3083878 3084196 3089241, hotness: undefined, score: 19, children: 0
dingus 17 points 3 years ago
I think you're on the right track, but I think it's also because recent games did better with similar ideas. People shat all over Mass Effect Andromeda, but it hid loading screens behind interplanetary and FTL travel that was actually visualized. In my brain, I know they're cutscenes to cover for loading data, but it's enough to take you out of it being a "game" and allowing you to suspend your disbelief. It's hard to suspend disbelief when there's a loading screen constantly in front of you.
SpaceNoodle 11 points 3 years ago
I just want Spacerim tho
Viking_Hippie 9 points 3 years ago
Closest I can get you is "Spacerimming: An Anal Odyssey", will that do?
SpaceNoodle 6 points 3 years ago
No but I'll hold on to that for now thanks
theterrasque 11 points 3 years ago
after No Man's Sky people kind of expected that with their budget / resources they would manage to fix that game's problems and create something richer + more seamless
That was basically what I hoped for. NMS type game, but with Skyrim/ fallout level modding, stories, quests and deeper meaning to it.
And with better procgen. They have the manpower and expertise to do that.
I haven't bought the game yet, waiting to see the initial responses. Now.. I'll probably pick it up on sale sometime, when bugs are fixed and there's solid mods.
drcobaltjedi 6 points 3 years ago
I mean, it is extremely polished. I have encountered a total of 2 bugs over my entire playtime. By this time in fallout 4 I lost track of the number of bugs I saw, things jittering atound, people's faces acting wonky, nome of that here.
greenskye 6 points 3 years ago
Honestly I still think waiting to buy a Bethesda game is smart if you aren't a huge fan or something. Skyrim was pretty crap at launch and all the praise it gets now is mostly referring to Skyrim well after launch when patches and mods turned it into something good.
PM_ME_FEET_PICS 0 points 3 years ago
I played Skyrim at launch and it was great.
Mods added another level to the game but I can happily play the game without.
hoodatninja 6 points 3 years ago path: 0 3083878 3084196 3085470, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 4
dingus 35 points 3 years ago
Everyone recalls, but they also recall Hello Games spending the next several years fixing the game and fleshing out to be closer to their original vision, which is what they were selling to people: their vision. They should have been selling the game, not the vision, but they took their fuckup on the chin and risked a lot. There was no gaurantee they would appease gamers and they essentially had no income except for continued sales of No Mans Sky.
Also NMS was Hello Games' first real big game ever, so you can give them a little slack for having no idea what they're doing.
Bethesda is a 30+ year old juggernaut who waits for modders to fix their games and has been re-releasing their last successful game for a full decade now.
Hello Games made NMS better because they felt bad. Bethesda made Skyrim better to re-release it and get more money.
Also, Hello Games is just 26 people and Bethesda is 420 people and owned by Microsoft.
hoodatninja 8 points 3 years ago path: 0 3083878 3084196 3085470 3086531 3086773, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 1
Viking_Hippie 1 point 3 years ago
Bethesda is 420 people
So what you're saying is that they smoke a lot of weed? Would explain a few things tbh 🤔
Balinares 28 points 3 years ago
They’ve always been boring
Strongly disagreed. Pre-Oblivion their games were great. Hoping for a return to engrossing stories taking place in a rich, expansive universe was not entirely unreasonable.
dingus 44 points 3 years ago
Morrowind was their best, but I would say 21 years on, it's really tough to be like "Yeah, this time they'll get back to their roots." No, it's time to move on. All the people who made those games what they were have retired, moved on, or died.
Balinares 15 points 3 years ago
Well, I'd argue that Daggerfall was their best game, story-wise, but Daggerfall is even older. And that's the point, isn't it? More time passed between Skyrim and Starfield than between Daggerfall and Oblivion. A lot can change in so many years, and I do believe that hoping for something new was not entirely unreasonable.
Then again, the keyword there is entirely, isn't it. I personally didn't expect very much from Starfield, and, also personally, I can't say I fully understand the amount of hype surrounding it.
bandario 8 points 3 years ago
Surely there's an element there of rose tinted glasses? All of us were 21 years younger. There were less games coming out and they were harder to get for many of us.
You didn't need to work so damn much to keep your head above water, or were below working age altogether. It was a lot easier to find the time to really immerse yourself in the lore and it required a lot of reading both in-game and out.
It was also all new to us, truly novel experiences with every leap in gameplay, graphics or mechanics being applied to brains that weren't completely immune to dopamine and over-stimulated constantly.
I played Ultima VII so much that my friends and I would quote the game to eachother at school...we were fully immersed in it and it was bloody huge for its day.
To be honest I barely even try with these type of games anymore. I know it isn't going to satisfy me. I tend to enjoy mastering movement mechanics and skill based competitive games. Sure, they also release the same game every year repackaged, but there's usually enough of a tweak to movement mechanics and gun physics that it's a challenge to get gud again and I get a real kick out of genuine competition.
I played Starfield for several hours on the weekend and I do my best not to judge too harshly given what I've said above but I feel as though there will never be a game ever again that grabs me enough to make that genre worth paying the money. It's me that's changed moreso than the lore being watered down. "Damn you, Avatar!"
CaptainEffort 1 point 3 years ago
I grew up with Skyrim and mod it religiously - that’s where my nostalgia comes from. And even I’ll say that Morrowind completely blows it out of the water on nearly every front.
Skyrim’s a lot more accessible, and I love it for that, but that’s about it.
SwampYankee 3 points 3 years ago
I'd recommend you go back and read some critical reviews of Arena and Daggerfall. The complaints are exactly the same: the graphics engine is out of date, the characters are lifeless, the writing is just okay, the story is shallow, etc. Bethesda has scaled back the RPG mechanics since Morrowind, for sure, but their games ultimately have the same Bethesda DNA, for better or worse. For what it's worth, I'm enjoying Starfield at launch much more than Fallout 4 even now, updated, expanded and modded.
Balinares 2 points 3 years ago
My friend, I don't need to go read the video game history about Daggerfall: I wrote some of it. :)
And I stand by my statement. That game was the height of storytelling that came out of Bethesda in a bunch of small but important ways, although Morrowind is not far behind, in a somewhat different fashion. And there is a definite shift in the series from the moment Ted Peterson left the team. Patently, not a shift I am personally very fond of, but to each her own.
SwampYankee 4 points 3 years ago
I can't remember all that well, I was a child at the time, lol. I go back to Morrowind once in a while, and I do find the writing to be more immersive, as opposed to the more recent games where it's a series of linear, ham-fisted novellas. So far, Starfield seems much improved over Fallout 4 or Skyrim in that regard, but I'm not all that far in.
dingus 27 points 3 years ago
Skyrim is literally one of their worst-written games and only has a saving grace of a wide open world that is interesting to explore.
Personal opinion, Morrowind was still boring, but had the best writing, best style, and required the most from the player. Morrowind was peak Bethesda and that was over 20 years ago.
SwampYankee 1 point 3 years ago
Starfield at launch is more compelling than Fallout 4 or Skyrim, but falls short of Morrowind. It's in the mix somewhere alongside Oblivion and Fallout 3, IMO.
flucksy_bango 0 points 3 years ago
🔥Hot take🔥
Eta: emojis, for that hot take
hoodatninja -8 points 3 years ago path: 0 3083878 3083935 3084005 3084802, hotness: undefined, score: -8, children: 29
dingus 30 points 3 years ago
Morrowind is a role-playing game, and in this role, you needed to be able to do things like research the world you're in to figure out what to do, not have a rando who has a big fancy exclamation point above him telling you exactly where to go with a waypoint. It's just different ways to approach the game. One is functionally role-playing within the world you exist in, and the other is "Fuck all this, I just want to play a game, I don't want to think hard."
FinalRemix 11 points 3 years ago
Can't have rose-tinted glasses if you're currently playing it as OpenMW.
Espi 10 points 3 years ago
I played Morrowind after playing Skyrim and I found it much better.
It's much less accessible, but the writing is actually good and it has the best 'R' in RPG of any game I have ever played. The character progression is amazing and there are so many fun ways to build a character.
tdawg 13 points 3 years ago
As an enjoyer of both Oblivion and Morrowind I'm going to say that I think it's more likely that the people at Bethesda who were key at making their past games good have either been promoted beyond their positions of expertise or simply left for greener pastures. Bethesda hasn't always been trash, and people are quick to forget transgressions from nearly a decade ago (yes! It's been that long!)
dingus 9 points 3 years ago
It's been 21 years since Morrowind, and 17 years since Oblivion. Been longer than a decade. Two in Morrowind's case. I would put Morrowind down as "peak Bethesda," and their games have been slowly turning to crap since. I agree, I think they lost a lot of key players who worked for them, and they've never been able to regain their footing.
karmiclychee 6 points 3 years ago
21 years since Morrowind
🫠
uwe 5 points 3 years ago
I'm fine with their writing and their overall gameplay. It's just that they managed to make space feel boring and tiny. All those little areas in-between the loading screens really don't feel like a vast space opera at all.
Also I wish they would just invest into some new game mechanics. Proc gen planets look great and exploring them could have been so much fun 🥲
ImpossibleRubiksCube 3 points 3 years ago path: 0 3083878 3097322, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
GrammatonCleric 2 points 3 years ago
Thanks Todd Howard 🙏
Absolutemehperson 1 point 3 years ago
"He can't keep getting away with it!!"
Bluefold 112 points 3 years ago
There's a trait you can pick that exactly explains my problems.with the game. The trait is 'Dream Home'. It is described as
'You own a luxurious, customizable house on a peaceful planet! Unfortunately it comes with a 125,000 credit mortgage with GalBank that has to be paid weekly.'...
I thought this was a cool way of adding increased difficulty for myself. I tend not to play at the hardest setting because I don't have much time to play. But having to plan ahead and work around this limitation sounded like it would add an interesting wrinkle to the strategy I'd have in the game.
However, when you start the game you discover that the loan has to be paid off in full... And you have unlimited time to pay it off. The only way to be foreclosed upon is if you actively go tell the bank to foreclose on you. It's like they had the idea, but couldn't be bothered to implement it.
What's worse is 120k is nothing in the game. You can easily get there within a few hours of play. This is just one example, but it speaks to the game's complete unwillingness to give the player anything negative or push them any way from their 'freedom'. The sheer fact you are not locked out of any faction or faction mission is another example. There are 0 stakes in the game and you feel 0 connection to the people you meet or places you visit. Not helped by Sarah potentially being one of the most annoying judgemental characters in any Bethesda game I've ever encountered.
Update: I eventually visited this 'Dream House'. It kinda sucked. The planet it is on is kinda ugly. There is more to this mechanic than I originally thought, however. When you visit you can pay 500 credits for 1 week of access as a 'payment' towards the principal. Still very deceptive of the original description.
abbotsbury 42 points 3 years ago
The only way to be foreclosed upon is if you actively go tell the bank to foreclose on you
Bethesda once again being so scared of the player making a choice, so they lock down anything that actually changes the game behind a giant 🚨 ARE YOU SURE??? 🚨
funktion 48 points 3 years ago
I mean there are a whole bunch of players that seem to have a problem with actually dealing with consequences. Just look at the bg3 players who are so pissed about "missing content" when they murderhobo their way through the game. Like no shit you killed the people who give you quests, of course you're going to miss out on their stories.
UnverifiedAPK 37 points 3 years ago
The sheer fact you are not locked out of any faction or faction mission is another example.
Ah, so Skyrim in space
qarbone 8 points 3 years ago
I think it's because so many space games try to dazzle with the unfettered dream of exploring the endless cosmos. But you obviously can't fill an endless cosmos with interesting things to do. Hell, most of space is just dead rocks and hot gas.
KSPAtlas 4 points 3 years ago
I feel like dyson sphere program is somewhere further, it being a sandbox factory game means you can do basically as much as you can reasonably handle on your computer, although story wise it's not great since it's not meant to be a story game
Katana314 16 points 3 years ago
Someday I’m interested in making an open world game (short on features because I’ll never have giant budgets) that embraces the friction of inconvenience, but finds enjoyable ways for people to circumvent them.
Eg: You can’t easily locate yourself on the map, but you can use a radio to ping towers and triangulate, which gives a breezy interface - or just ask locals. You can’t fast travel, but train stations get you where you’re going - and you might get an interesting conversation or even a whole questline on board.
Happenchance 4 points 3 years ago
When ARMA Reforger released it was chaos, with 95% of the people hopelessly lost at all times. It's because the game gave you a map, a compass, and nothing else for navigation. Best. Immersion. Ever.
Always on instant GPS with augmented reality waypoints between abstract objectives is what kills player immersion (and developer creativity). If I can just follow an arrow from point to point and complete a game: it wasn't worth making the game.
Dubious_Fart 0 points 3 years ago
Yep. Theres no exploring, theres just "run to waypoint. grab thing waypoint is on, run to waypoint, hand over waypointed item, find next waypoint source, repeat"
Cause devs want to dumb games down so any mouth breathing reject can conquer it without any effort, to bring in that sweet sweet idiot money.
Honytawk 2 points 3 years ago
Not every game mechanic needs to be a struggle.
And not every person can dedicate hours of time each week to play. Doesn't make them mouth breathers.
But I agree they should at least give you the option to turn it off or on.
At least it is a Bethesda game, so someone will mod it in.
Zoomboingding 4 points 3 years ago
There's a little open world game called Miasmata with that triangulation system! It's an open world survival horror. It's pretty short though, and I bet you could get it for just a few bucks on sale. I really enjoyed my time in it, and the world is the perfect mix of dreary and serene.
TowardsTheFuture 6 points 3 years ago
Man. Was really hoping to be wrong about it, but I mean, it is bethesda. Can't expect a full up to date game without gamebreaking bugs or missing features when they could just rely on unpaid mod creators for that.
XanXic 3 points 3 years ago
Why didn't you pick any of the more negative traits? Like your example is the most basic harmless one. There's ones with way more downsides. Did you pick the '2 loving parents' trait and are mad they don't kill you on sight? lmao. Like I picked wanted where I always have a bounty and it's cool. I've had a bounty hunter show up in the middle of a boss fight before. Both in space and on ground. Added a decent complication. A few of the others are pretty long term negatives like weakening aids and food.
I also don't know if you explored much because the game has a pretty robust ailments system. Like if you pre-plan sure you can have all the expensive cures on hand, but you can get quite a few ailments at once from fucking around. I had a cough for like 4 hours because I couldn't find an aid for it. I eventually had to go to a doctor to get rid of it.
Bluefold 2 points 3 years ago
I did pick other negative traits. My problem with this one is it straight up lies to you in the description. You think it is going to be negative but instead it is the most basic boring version of what that trait could be. I've explored many hostile environments where conditions are common and haven't had a situation where I didn't already have the sure on hand but I tend to loot a lot.
You can't change your traits after starting. For my play style, this one should have been perfect. Instead it just sucked all fun out of the potential mechanic.
Dubious_Fart 1 point 3 years ago
its like the trait that gives you living parents.
makes a big deal out of having to send them money every week.
Its little more than a rounding error on your accounts, the amount you end up sending.
And they end up giving you several amazing things or free.
spoiler
___ A big honkin awesome ship, Thats got amazing cargo capacity for as early as you get it: Just gotta visit them a few times to get it and a pretty fuckin awesome pistol that, when i got it, was outdamaging everything i had except shotguns by at least a factor of 2.
Seriously, money in this game is a joke. Getting to be a rich removed is easier than building water purifier settlements in Fallout 4.
eochaid 77 points 3 years ago
My wife, a couple friends, and I have all put a ton of hours into this game and absolutely love it. I put several hours into the shipbuilder alone. Every hand built sidequest I run into feels like a TNG episode. And I love the kinda Becky Chambers / Star Trek-style utopia with mystery and drama theme they've got.
This is the most Bethesda game they've ever made, for better of worse. It doesn't hand hold you. There are plenty of times where I've looked at my quest log, found nothing i could do except the main quest, and then decided just to jump to a random system - only to get pulled into some crazy new adventure for a couple hours. You're supposed to be an explorer, if you put even the smallest effort into exploring, you will be rewarded.
A lot of people complaining were never going to like this game or any Bethesda game and I don't know what to do with those people. The amount of constant negativity on the internet makes me really appreciate stories like TNG and writers like Becky Chambers and Cory Doctorow, because they're so positive and affirming and optimistic and when they criticise, they also offer solutions. And this game really scratches that itch for me.
And after almost 40 years of life dealing with the constsnt cycle of negativity and hatred and anger and frustration and drama, on the internet, a global scale, and in my own life.....I'm just tired. I can't play games with "edgy dark stories" anymore. I can't go back to New Vegas because its bummer after bummer. And i know a lot of people thrive on that "scortched earth" bullshit but I just can't anymore.
I just...wanna sit down and play a game. And maybe one where everything is okay for once. And this is that game for me.
guriinii 17 points 3 years ago
I don't get the hate, fuck 'em. I'm absolutely loving the game, it's exactly what I wanted and more. In fact, I get the same feeling I did playing Skyrim, you're doing some side mission, then you see something absolutely stunning. Earlier I was on some grey barren moon looking for resources, I look to the right, see the red planet, it's ice caps, and other two moons with the milky way behind them.
I like the TNG comparison. The side missions are so much better than in other Bethesda games I've played. Even little interactions with the NPCs or little events and conversations that just happen as a part of the world and not some quest. Love it.
thecodemonk 3 points 3 years ago
Damn it. Now I might have to try to buy it. In was thinking game pass as I would probably just do the main story and be done... But if the side quests aren't just some, go pick up this item and bring it back, id love that.
CapitanStrider 4 points 3 years ago
Yeah that's fair. Even if you see negative stuff about a game online, if you enjoy something then just enjoy it. Online toxicity and negativity are out of your control. Just get comfy and find peace in knowing that you're having a good time.
SwampYankee 3 points 3 years ago
Man that last quest for Sarah was a such a TNG moment. Overall the writing in this game is a cut above most - that quest was sort of an obvious twist, but it was executed really well. I find myself wishing the animations could keep up with the writing and voice actors sometimes, but we can't have it all.
sentient_loom 1 point 3 years ago
Are you hoping for cut scenes with specially rendered segments? Because I hate that stuff and would rather see animations built within the game world, like we have in most of these Bethesda games.
Cut scenes ruin games for me. It's why I never finished a Mass Effect game.
SwampYankee 2 points 3 years ago
No, just more emotion in the animations. You know how real people will sort of look up & to the left or something, maybe put their finger or hand up if they're trying to remember something? Or they'll look around and move their head a little, scratch their chin, etc. if they're thinking. Or they'll scrunch their eyebrows up and look at the ground if they're sad?
That kind of thing.
sentient_loom 1 point 3 years ago
Okay yeah, those would certainly be improvements. And... we have the technology.
c0mbatbag3l 1 point 3 years ago
Strange, I hate the Bethesda POV and would rather have a cinematic view that helps sell the acting and narrative. Nothing kills my Interest quicker than a boring me looking at you view of things.
b3nsn0w 1 point 3 years ago
i have gamepass unrelated to this game, i'm probably going to try it out if the dlss mod can be installed on the gamepass version (which looks like it can be). if the game sucks, i'm happy, nothing kills excitement better than actually experiencing the thing and getting disappointed, so i can finally evict this game from my head. and if the game doesn't suck, i'm also happy because all these years later i finally get to play star citizen, i just apparently had to wait for bethesda to make it.
GeneralEmergency 57 points 3 years ago
When this is the first meme I see a community make. I know the game is mid as fuck.
peopleproblems 56 points 3 years ago
you guys really think it's boring? :/
scrubbles 53 points 3 years ago
At this point I don't trust anyone. Reviewers obviously paid off to give positive reviews, but then just as annoying is all the pure anti Bethesda hate here. I don't trust anyone to separate their Bethesda love/hate from the review of the actual game.
I think there was one review that was like "it's a sci Fi Skyrim in space" and that sounds like it'll be the most accurate.
GreenMario 33 points 3 years ago
sci Fi Skyrim
Shit bro that's all you gotta say.
I'm a basic bitch like that I like my Bethesda kiddie pools.
Viking_Hippie 28 points 3 years ago
"it's a sci Fi Skyrim in space"
Tbh, that DOES sound pretty great IMO 🤷
PalmTreeIsBestTree 5 points 3 years ago
That’s all I really wanted from this game. I like the fact the environments are actually different looking instead of Wasteland Fallout or Fantasy Skyrim.
Username02 -13 points 3 years ago
What is Skyrim but a shadow of Oblivion, which is only a shadow to Morrowind? Hard pass if it's anything like Skyrim. Stupid puzzles, stupid quests, stupid lore. They treat you like a kindergartener, and you guys like it. 🤷
barooboodoo 21 points 3 years ago
Why don't you just post your IQ and get it over with 🤷♂️
MtDewaholic 12 points 3 years ago
For me this is the first Bethesda game I’ve played (other than a few hours of Skyrim but I didn’t get far), and I’ve been enjoying it quite a bit. It’s not a perfect game, probably not even my game of the year, but I’ve been finding myself wanting to play it over all of the other games currently in my backlog.
I really don’t see what the hate is about, Bethesda promised space Skyrim, and that’s basically what we got.
CaptainEffort 4 points 3 years ago
The one time ign was actually on top of it, and people mass disliked the video. That 7 was deserved.
Kujo 3 points 3 years ago
Yea I felt the same way and spent the $30 bucks on Xbox to play it early. I really think this game is a huge "Your mileage may vary".
If you have a PC I would look into a gamepass trial or something to try it out before buying it. Or like someone said buying it on steam and then refunding if it's not your thing.
I didn't have super high expectations but honestly it's really solid and it does have its flaws that are sometimes in your face, but I've had a lot of highs so far when playing too. If you've played a Bethesda game before, you can expect what you're getting into.
googlrr 36 points 3 years ago
People are weird when it comes to Bethesda. If you like Bethesda games, you'll probably like this one. I haven't gotten to play myself yet but watching friends who have it it looks fun. Does it look 10/10 GOTY? Not really. But it looks full* of fun stuff.
I think in some way all Bethesda games can feel 'boring', but kinda in a good way? Like sometimes you're just wandering a city with no real goal. It isn't thrilling or adrenaline pumping, but it's cool and immersive. Some people find that kind of slower pace boring. I think it's cool. Not everything gotta be full throttle all the time.
*edit
CryptoRoberto 13 points 3 years ago
I think they've been putting out very similar games since like fallout 3. If that's what you are looking for, it's fun. People for some reason seem to put unrealistic expectations on things. I assume this game is just improved graphics fallout 3 in space. Which isn't a bad thing, but if you expect a revolutionary game you are in for disappointment.
PolarisFx 5 points 3 years ago
Some of my friends played and immediately hated it and brought up comparisons to newer games, but this isn't the new Unreal engine, this is the same Creation Engine they've been using for 11 years, which is based on the 26yr old gamebryo engine.
Personally as someone who loves Bethesda games, and who understands the limitations of the engine, I am thoroughly enjoying myself, will it beat bg3 for goty? Unlikely, but it's still fun
PalmTreeIsBestTree 2 points 3 years ago
At some point they gotta ditch the Creation engine and make a new one from scratch. The reason Halo Infinite ended up being a turd was because of its engine.
SimplyATable 2 points 3 years ago
That's about what I was expecting, glad to hear it's mostly true. I'll be able to play it in a couple days
totallymojo 34 points 3 years ago
I played 10hrs on Steam then refunded.
I was expecting a 2023 game with 12 years of development and 6 months delay for polish.
I got Fallout 4 (2015) with scifi-skin.
The thing that pissed me off the most:
It's not as open and "huge scale" as people seem to think it is. It's kind of "fake open" if that makes sense. You cannot get into your ship and fly 800m east to your mission. If you do that, a new instance is loaded and your mission is not there. You have to run that 800m.
hangonasecond 17 points 3 years ago
Steam can refuse a refund after that time, but they are usually incredibly flexible because a) they want to keep customers on Steam and b) many jurisdictions have much firmer and consumer favoured laws around product refunds, Australia for example is a large reason for Steams current refund policy in the first place.
Seraphin -1 points 3 years ago
imo refunding after 10 hours is not the right thing to do, and could undermine the whole refund system if it becomes a common thing people do.
The original idea for allowing refunds for digital games (or anything, really) is if you get a broken or defective product. If the game won't launch, or it's a buggy unplayable mess, or not what was advertised (and I'm talking blatant false advertising, not some vague speculative comments) you get a refund. If you simply don't like the game, then you need to own it that you made a bad purchase and move on. It happens.
This is why it's important to wait for reviews and actual gameplay on YouTube/Twitch first, so you have a much better understanding of what you're getting. Hell, this why YTers/streamers get free codes on release, so their audience will see the game and want to go buy it.
It's been said a million times over but I guess it needs saying again: STOP 👏 PRE-ORDERING 👏 VIDEO 👏 GAMES
UnverifiedAPK 13 points 3 years ago
2 hours max for a guaranteed refund, anything else (within 2 weeks) needs to be approved by a human to make sure you're not just beating the game and returning it after.
totallymojo 4 points 3 years ago
Steam are usually nicer with games that is not officially released yet.
liquidparasyte 3 points 3 years ago
Oh that's gonna suuuuuuuck for me
I am the person who will cheese distance running in NMS by triangulating an objective and summoning my ship to it, and Starfield apparently says "lol nope motherfucker you're walking"
bandario 14 points 3 years ago
It really is. At first I was excited about the apparent scale, but the way they've hashed it all together all it does is make you jump through a bunch of janky menus and poorly done travel sequences to get to your next carbon-copy action sequence. Combine that with forcing you into a walking simulator when you COULD just use your god damn space ship and it's just boring and procedural.
I can see some people really getting into it: the grind to gather resources and build bases etc but really it's nothing new and if you don't get off on this kind of mindless gameplay then you are going to be disappointed. Just raid, pick up a bunch of random junk, sell it, build shit. God, how many times have we got to play the same game in a different setting?
I will say that they have dramatically improved gunplay compared to past titles. Like REMARKABLY, and I found the graphics to be pretty decent but if you want to play with everything on ultra and no resolution scaling, you'd better have a supercomputer. Indoor fights are difficult to lose even in the very early game, but trying to raid abandoned space bases etc will put you in a situation where the AI has got a bead on you from 4 or 5 different angles at once. Top, mid and bottom levels, incoming fire from enough places that you simply can't find cover - the way that you win is by not attempting to take these bases until you have sufficiently upgraded your HP and shields. Literally you are corralled down the story path through sheer necessity until you get to the point you can just jetpack to each enemy whilst taking fire and take them out without too much worry.
EDIT: Another bit of playtime.
Imagine if they left you free to use your ship as you see fit? Crew it with NPC's, upgrade the firepower and put in a few manned turrets. Maybe let you play with friends and form a pirate crew? You know, the way that battlefield has allowed for this sort of open world vehicular co-op for the last what, 13 years? Once you got good at flight maneuvers you'd be just about unstoppable low flight altitude and it would be fun as hell.
Alas, the ship is nothing more than a teleporter with some janky, repetitive space combat out the front window. What a missed opportunity.
XanXic 2 points 3 years ago
Really dial in the sensitivity I'd say. It took me like legit cranking it up and then adjusting down by 2% at a time to find a sweet spot. But it's definitely much more responsive and tighter than any other Fallout-esque game they've done. Those always felt mushy.
I'll say too it's probably that the games aim assist is very light. Like almost hardly there. For a single player offline game it could use a small increase. Like I'm still able to head shot dudes but it's noticeable, and combined with muscle memory for similar games, having hardly any 'magnetism' is an adjustment. I keep meaning to look if there's a slider in the settings.
jdeath 1 point 3 years ago
ok thanks for the tip! i'll give that a try. i think i got too used to the mushy shooting in fallout and compensated by using a lot of left stick (moving) to handle the finer aiming. so it's just not what i got used to haha
bandario 2 points 3 years ago
Yeah playing on PC. It's certainly not the best combat ever but it is worlds better than any previous Bethesda title save possibly for their involvement with RAGE, but I think that was more of a publishing deal and the gunplay was all ID software.
I can't comment on using a gamepad, it has always felt like writing left-handed to me.
abbotsbury 14 points 3 years ago
Bethesda hasn't really changed their formula, so if you've played Skyrim or Fallout 4 you quickly fall into the 'quest marker->dungeon->vendor->crafting' loop and the game stops being stimulating
iheartneopets 2 points 3 years ago
Except you've left out a huge bullet point from that loop that has always kept me enjoying their games: quest marker->EXPLORATION->dungeon->vendor->crafting.
The procedural generation of this game immediately told me I wouldn't enjoy it (even though I hoped they knew what they were doing), because walking around Bethesda worlds has always been one of the best parts of the exoerience, and they went and optimized it out so that it's mostly a series of menus. And damn if that's not been their game design strategy for the past decade-plus—'optimize' out all the fun parts, make the game as simplified as possible, even if it means cutting out core features fans love.
Mr_Buscemi 5 points 3 years ago
This is sadly the first Bethesda game that hasn't held my attention. The moment I had to deal with that space combat tutorial I knew I would never want to fight in space again for how boring it felt rotating in circles to keep hitting the same button to fire locked on attacks. Nothing about that felt fun or enjoyable and then trying to fast travel and having to go through the menus was worse.
Then when i got to the first area after the prologue I kept getting my AI robot companion running into as I tried exploring. I lost count of the number of times I tried looking in corners of small rooms only for Vasco run straight up to me and push me into a corner I have to spend 1 minutes trying to jump over.
Finally New Atlantis made me ask for a refund from how horrible the map system was. Trying to explore the large place was tedious and just such a step back from all Bethesda's previous work with making the maps detailed for you to see where stuff was. Here I was just using the mission waypoints and ignoring everything else.
I had fun at the beginning but there are just many things that caused me sway my opinion into not wanting to play it again. Hopefully I can get the $32 refund for the premium shit since I don't think I'll be sticking around for the DLC.
circuitfarmer 7 points 3 years ago
It didn't come out on PS5.
MindSkipperBro12 37 points 3 years ago
Bethesda games tend to have awful writing, released with an unacceptable amount of bugs, and not having micro transactions and a battle pass shouldn’t be praised, it must be the standard.
gizmonicus 5 points 3 years ago
The only way it becomes standard is when it isn't profitable. We can scream all we want, but people still buy that crap.
c0mbatbag3l 2 points 3 years ago
When will you learn the only thing that gets results is buying or not buying them? Fucks sake. It's capitalism, if you buy shitty product more shitty product gets made.
Dubious_Fart 0 points 3 years ago
It is the standard, idiot fucking gamergoblins dumping their wallets out saying "GIVE ME ADVANTAGES" are the assholes thats are trying to change the standard.
Redredme 18 points 3 years ago
So it should be praised as it currently isn't the standard in the gaming industry. But hey, let's shit on it so we can totally tell the industry that this is the wrong path and micro transactions are the way to go!
XanXic 3 points 3 years ago
I had Vasco become a part of the door to the cockpit. I couldn't enter. I had to leave the ship and hit the specific 'to cockpit' button for a few hours because reloading didn't save him from his torment. Only bug I've had but was weird lol.
ForbiddenRoot 3 points 3 years ago
Vasco quite frequently blocks the door everywhere for me, but at least I have been able to push my way through so far. He's like my Golden Retriever in that respect so I am used to it from real life.
bonfire921 11 points 3 years ago
Well steam is really pushing devs to use demos again, given it's mostly indie at this moment but slowly more and more demos start showing up, which is nice. One can hope AAA will do this to but I highly doubt they will
sewerkat -4 points 3 years ago
Ah yes, because it's the customer's fault that Bethesda released a barebones game again.
Listen. The game pass isn't a replacement for demos. It still costs money, so for people who can only buy a limited number of games per year, that's a no-go. It's one of the more expensive subscription services as well. The point of demos is to be a free but limited experience of the game so people can decide whether the game is worth throwing money at without getting a subscription for hundreds of games they don't care about or already own. Nothing against the game pass mind you, it's great for lots of people, but it ain't a demo.
Besides, this isn't just about Starfield. There seem to be more games coming out unfinished than otherwise, and both that trend and the absence of demos seem to have come with SaaS games becoming the norm. Remember when no man's sky came out? Or cyberpunk 2077? Or fallout 76? Beinging back demos won't completely prevent cases like that, but it sure would help
SwampYankee 2 points 3 years ago
Starfield doesn't feel unfinished or barebones at all to me. There's a ton of great quest content, the art is top notch, and I haven't seen a single bug in 30 hours.
iheartneopets 16 points 3 years ago
I don't understand why it's so popular NOT to shit on them. Remember when Andromeda came out with many of the same issues, and people fucking REAMED it (rightly)? Now Bethesda is finally getting SOME criticism for their shitty business and game development practices and we have lots of people out here suckling at their teat defending them for some reason. "Leave them alone, it's just a Bethesda game, why do people love to hate them, wahhhh."
As if Bethesda isn't one of the most beloved companies of all time, and most everyone started from a place of WANTING to love this game. But they've been making shitty decisions for years, hiding behind the nostalgia of their past titles, and they are overdue some criticism. It doesn't mean everyone hates them.
szczuroarturo 4 points 3 years ago
I dont know why pepole shited so much on Andromeda.it was fairly ok title and i personaly was looking forward to next part( which sadly probably wont happen ). Certainly gameplay fitted andromeda more than inquisition. Alghtough from what i have seen i definietly wouldnt be so amazed as some journalist seem to be but Its a ok title. Not a BG3 for certain. Alghtough i admittedly never really liked bethesda style games.i even prefered dragon age 2 rather than skyrim. Bethesda games are too diluted for my tastes.
flucksy_bango 1 point 3 years ago
Remember when Andromeda came out with many of the same issues, and people fucking REEMED it
No, enlighten me, because I fucking hated Andromeda.
iheartneopets 3 points 3 years ago
Typo on my part, but a definition of 'ream' is to reprimand or beat up, essentially
flucksy_bango -1 points 3 years ago
It actually means to make a hole bigger
CountryBreakfast 7 points 3 years ago
I dont think gamers know what they want.
CountryBreakfast 1 point 3 years ago
That isnt clear either. I wonder if some people are just routinely negative about major releases? I usually don't have wide expectations and get into games for niche reasons, for settlement and ship building in this case. I'm not really invested in what the more negative gamers have to say because it doesn't have much to do with why I want to play the game. Also I feel like too many are just outrage poisoned so their opinion is just guaranteed to be ridiculous.
ForbiddenRoot 46 points 3 years ago
I somehow entirely missed the hype around this game and came across it again only accidentally on early release day when looking at some other sale on Steam. Been playing it and it seems fine to me in a vague Skyrim-in-space sort of way, which is all what I was expecting from a Bethesda RPG.
The world seems alive enough and there are plenty of side-quests and amusing / interesting things to discover. Now suddenly I have been coming across a bunch of posts everywhere where the game is supposed to be terrible or something. Still seems fine to me, but maybe I have lower standards after decades of gaming. shrug.
Dubious_Fart 7 points 3 years ago
Its fallout 4 in space.
But with a worse interface and a lot more menus that are annoying to navigate.
Dubious_Fart 4 points 3 years ago
I know, its heavily consolified, but its bad even for bethesda.
Reddit_Is_Trash 4 points 3 years ago
Some mods have attempted to fix the menus.
I'd like to see some complete UI overhauls at some point, but right now I'm using a mod that increases the refresh rate to 120hz from 30 in the menu's
sentient_loom 1 point 3 years ago
Fallout 4 is a much better FPS. But Starfield is a much, much better RPG.
Dubious_Fart 1 point 3 years ago
Eh.. I'm not sure I agree with that statement, but to each their own
XanXic 42 points 3 years ago
I think it's fun, but I'm a run and gun kind of guy. So I'm having a blast shooting dudes in the face. The shooting is much better than Fallout. I LOVE fighting in the zero gravity arenas. It's so cool like floating between pillars and headshotting a guy off in the distance and his body is now bopping around. Those are so rare though. Idk how I can find more.
But overall I find the game frustrating outside battles. It's like death by a thousand cuts though. There's no one thing that's egregious but there's just stacking outdated design choices that continually build up. The games indecision around flying your ship being an easy catch all for the multiple failures in making your ship mean anything outside of battles and the map system. For the love of God fix the slide, you slide like 2inches. There's also a constant battle with backing out of menus. Idk.
But then I find some spacer trap house and have a good time blasting away. Excited for when I can actually can craft bespoke weapons.
PM_ME_FEET_PICS 2 points 3 years ago
They also helped with the gunplay in FO4 as well. There is a clear improvement over it than FO3.
Frozengyro 9 points 3 years ago
Yea menu navigation is terrible, lack of explanation on how to do anything is confusing, basically no map isn't great. I'm about 10 hours in and enjoying it, but could have been a lot better.
Also, maybe it's just me but I can never tell if I'm buying or selling to a vendor and end up totally messing it up and needing to reload multiple times.
XanXic 6 points 3 years ago
"not a failure" I called it frustrating and death by a thousand cuts. Just because I don't screech failure and send Todd Howard death threats doesn't mean I'm not being critical of the game. Get some reading comprehension and don't set the bar at hyperbole. Saying the thing you do 75% of the time is fun isn't calling it a rousing success either by any means.
NathanielThomas 40 points 3 years ago path: 0 3099677, hotness: undefined, score: 40, children: 8
Viking_Hippie 6 points 3 years ago
Tgat? Is that an acronym of "Toke, grin, assess, twerk "?
JamesStallion 8 points 3 years ago
Occams razor dictates yes.
Trihilis 5 points 3 years ago
The negative opinions basically boil down to the following:
people who have played the game and genuinely don't like it (like asmongold) and have good arguments why they don't like it. I respect these people opinions. You can tell them apart because they actually name the things they don't like in the game with constructive arguments.
People who haven't played the game and probably never will and just regurgitate what the hate train is saying. If you ask them why it usually boils down to "it looks boring", okay cool have played it? No? Okay is there anything else you don't like? Then the usual "bethesdaslop" and calling people idiots or shills start. I mean what are you even trying to accomplish? Are they just annoyed others are having fun while they're angry? I don't take these people seriously and you can usually easily pick them out of the comments.
The game will probably get review bombed on metacritic and the likes, I'm calling it now. Just the amount of stupid articles and YouTube make it a self fulfilling prophecy. I won't give a shit, I'll try it on gamepass when it comes out. If I like it I will keep playing it and if I don't I will stop. It's as simple as that.
I really don't see why people feel the need to jump on some hate train just for the sake of disliking something. It's just as annoying as people who want to be contrarian just to look interesting.
Meuzzin 5 points 3 years ago
People are just weird, and typically have zero foresight.
I think you're pretty much spot-on.
I understand some of the negative reviews, but over-all, I've enjoyed it so far. More importantly, it has massive potential.
Trihilis 2 points 3 years ago
I don't really want to rewatch the 4 hour or so stream but off the top of my head' -ship combat wasn't fun (he didn't get it and found it unreasonably hard) -he did not care for the RPG elements and doesn't like games where you have to play for a lot of hours before it becomes fun -he found the combat clunky compared to other shooter games
He admitted he probably wasn't the right audience for the game since he never really liked Bethesda games. He just wanted to try something different. Also story seems to be not that important to him generally. I personally love Bethesda games and can get completely absorbed in them. But I can also definitely understand it's not for everyone.
abraxas 1 point 3 years ago
All that makes sense. I remember him defending P2W action games. And I did stumble onto a reaction video of him laughing at random things that CP2077 thought of but weren't in Starfield. Fair enough.
PM_ME_FEET_PICS 8 points 3 years ago
People keep saying it's Skyrim in space. Great, I got a good 400-500 hours out of Skyrim.
iheartneopets 0 points 3 years ago
It's not. No exploration or interesting story, no 'wow' factor like Alduin flying down on you for the first time. Don't expect Skyrim. Not even close.
PM_ME_FEET_PICS 2 points 3 years ago
No exploration? Isn't there a class built specifically around it?
iheartneopets 1 point 3 years ago
You are mistaking true exploration for unlocking new locations
sturmblast 27 points 3 years ago
I literally spent my entire Labor Day weekend playing this game so anybody that says it's boring I'd really don't understand what they're talking about
Poggervania 24 points 3 years ago
I’m not surprised. I haven’t seen vids or played Starfield, but just judging by how Fallout 4 and Skyrim play, I was gonna expect the game to get old and boring really quick between the bland gameplay and milquetoast writing of those two games.
Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Morrowind were probably their last good games, with Morrowind being Bethesda at their absolute best imo.
GigglyBobble 32 points 3 years ago
I'm quite sure you're in the minority judging Skyrim as boring.
Goblin_Mode 22 points 3 years ago
I mean I'm gonna have to agree with the guy though. Skyrim was all but earth shattering.. In 2011. Have you tried playing it recently? It feels old and repetitive. There is obviously still some fun to be had and some memorable bits but on the whole it's just outdated plain and simple.
I think the vast majority of enjoyment people derive from it is nostalgia driven which I can totally respect, but that only lasts for like 4-5 hours once a year tops. I feel like a new player who never touched it in the golden years would likely get bored fast
GigglyBobble 4 points 3 years ago
No, I haven't played it recently. I also don't play Pacman anymore but it still is one of the cornerstones of computer games and a great game. Yes, Skyrim may be bland compared to modern RPGs but so are the others @Poggervania listed.
Poggervania 4 points 3 years ago
You say that, but you also have younger people who play Bethesda’s older games like Morrowind and Daggerfall to this day and are able to enjoy them in their own right.
It’s hard to put into words because another poster was right - there’s still some sort of draw to not just Skyrim, but their games in general. It might be nostalgia, it might be the atmosphere, no idea - but when you play the games, it’s just so… blah. Like it’s so close to being good, but they just miss the mark in some capacity.
Using Morrowind as an example because of how much I like the game, the environment, the atmosphere, and the writing are really well done - but god fucking dammit, I have to game the system in order to maximize my attributes on level up so I don’t die to RNGesus. As a mage, I don’t want to level up Long Blade or Heavy Armor - but I kind of have to because I need more carry weight from Strength and the HP gain from Endurance is not retroactive, so I have to get that to 100 as soon as I can so I don’t die to a sneeze. In Skyrim, they made leaps and bounds in the general combat - which is great, but holy fuck who gives a shit about the world when it effectively goes on pause for you and everybody is as wooden as the trees surrounding them? Fallout 4 is actually a really good gameplay loop and settlements are fun, but I’m not even playing a character - I can say “yes” in three different ways or “not right now” to pretty much every dialogue option and quest, and everybody is “quirky” in the way the cast of The Office is “quirky” it feels like. The writing really misses the mark 90% of the time.
I think it’s that, at least for me personally, is what makes them boring but still have that draw.
Goblin_Mode 1 point 3 years ago
I'm not denying it's impact on modern gaming, I'm just saying it's old. Like it certainly deserves a spot in the gaming hall of fame but it doesn't really stack up against more modern RPGs. Technology is moving forward and so should games, yet Bethesda is so stuck on Skyrim they have refused to innovate for a comically long time
BigBananaDealer 4 points 3 years ago
yeah i never thought super mario bros was a good game, maybe in the 80s it was but its just boring and repetive today
SimplyATable 3 points 3 years ago
I mean, recently I played skyrim for the first time and it was far from boring
PillowTalk420 12 points 3 years ago
I can get the sentiment about the combat being uninspired and a bit bland, and things being formulaic but... There is still something that draws me in. I really have no words for what it is, but somehow these games suck me in despite their problems and "boring" mechanics.
Poggervania 5 points 3 years ago
Probably. I haven’t played any of the DLCs, but I just can’t get into Skyrim nowadays because I get quickly bored of it all. The only time I managed to complete all of the quests and the main quest was back at release, but now whenever I play it feels like a slog to go through a painfully bland world and setting. I usually give up after a few hours of playtime, and now I just haven’t played in years.
Meanwhile, I was around 30-40 hours into my latest Morrowind playthrough before BG3 dropped, and was putting a fair whack of time into Battlespire, so maybe I’m finally becoming old lol.
Kuma 3 points 3 years ago
It depends, I think as unmoded would many say it is boring. The whole game is kinda of a meme even tho it wasn't supposed to be. like killing a chicken and hell breaks loose, and how sweet rolls are an addiction to all the guards, how they keep saying the same thing and seem to live the same life. All of them could just have been one person (or two because there are female guards too). Some npcs are a bit interesting the first few times but it gets old quick.
I have played skyrim a lot but it is heavily moded. Every new playthrough do I throw in new quests and places, try a different mix of combat mods and Ai mods to make my enemies actually enemies and not just obstacles, everything to make it less monotone. I tried to play it again last month but my motivation just fell and I never felt like playing again.
Ser_Salty 3 points 3 years ago
I'd say Starfield is in a lot of ways a return to form. So far, none of the actual quests I got from NPCs were as simple as "Go there and kill bandits", like the majority of quests in Fallout 4. Those proc-gen quests have been relegated to Mission Boards for various factions (and there's also more variety of them. Beyond killing, you have smuggling missions, cargo transport, passenger transport, surveying and some other stuff). Most of the quests I've done so far have also been very interesting, I've talked my way out of multiple confrontations/bossfight and I've robbed a valuable trophy and bank credentials from a luxury cruise ship with not a single shot fired, just using my cunning, persuasion and a little bit of blackmail and bribery. I keep thinking that I am going to get those "please kill those raiders" quests, like when I got a distress call from somebody having trouble with spacers (this games version of generic raiders or bandits), but instead I had to repair communication satellites and negotiate a mutual defense pact with the settlers of that system. Like, I'm 50+ hours in (yes, genuinely) and the game keeps surprising me with new and interesting content. I feel like I've barely scratched the surface of the content available.
Sure, you can't completely fuck everything up and go murder everyone in the game like in BG3 or FNV or something, but it is actually a really solid RPG. The writing isn't as deep, philosophical and politically charged as New Vegas, but it's good. Way better than Fallout 4s main story (and better than Fallout 3s main story, which secretly sucks.) I actually had some interesting conversations in the game and chuckled quite a few times at some of the responses I could choose. My background and traits actually do come up in conversation, even had one of my traits help me win a persuasion minigame (which is actually quite interesting in this as well). Skills like Persuasion, Intimidation and Bribery actually matter and allow you to finish quests in different ways. I get a little bit angry everytime somebody calls it Fallout 4 in space, because unlike Fallout 4 Starfield is actually a roleplaying game, even if it doesn't live up to the heights of Baldurs Gate 3. If you're gonna call it anything in space, Oblivion would probably be the most apt comparison.
DeathWearsANecktie 23 points 3 years ago
I like the game
WarmSoda 4 points 3 years ago
It's like dreadlocks. For some reason games always have 20 different types of dreadlock styles. I know like maybe two guys that have had dreads.
Who tf are all these devs sporting dreads?
NewSmileadon 5 points 3 years ago
If I had a dime for every dumbass who says "the engine is old" or something like that I'd take all of you to Popeyes, asking you guys kindly to stay under 12$ per order.
sentient_loom 4 points 3 years ago
I love this game and this engine.
Cyberpunk 2077 has a horrible gameplay style, the action is constrained and clunky, the stories have too many rails. It doesn't feel free and open. It's basically just Grand Theft Auto with better stories.
No Man's Sky seems endlessly pointless (or pointlessly endless?). It's a cool idea but I enjoy Starfield a whole lot more.
eochaid 2 points 3 years ago
And you stanning Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky as polished games is hilarious to me.
It took several years of fixing No Man's Sky before it was anything more than a boring tech demo. Cyberpunk took years of bug fixes and a popular anime to break people out of the hate circlejerk and actually experience the fucking game. Starfield hasn't even officially released yet. People need to chill the fuck out.
Also what are you talking about with "the engine is showing it's age?". This is a brand new fucking engine. I'm playing the game on my Xbox in 4k and it looks better than anything I've played this year.
Destraight 21 points 3 years ago
I doubt that OP has played starfield
moonsnotreal 19 points 3 years ago
Am I the only one who noticed the gun animations are just the fallout 4 ones? Like the pistols use exactly the same animations. I know because I played hundreds of hours of 4.
Viking_Hippie 21 points 3 years ago
I mean, you don't always have to reinvent the wheel: if 4 achieved realistic-feeling energy weapon animations, why fix what isn't broken? Third folksy saying.
CordanWraith 8 points 3 years ago
Yeah, Elden Ring for example has tons of DS3 animations. It's just more sensible to use the existing ones rather than completely remaking the same thing.
MindSkipperBro12 0 points 3 years ago
Yes but we need to go vertically, not horizontally.
sturmblast 2 points 3 years ago
early access or piracy
Papercrane 10 points 3 years ago
I didn't play starfield but watched around 2 hours of gameplay. The story was kinda nonsense, the gameplay I can respect but I know it wouldn't be for me. Like everyone says it's fallout in space, but it seems like it takes itself much more serious
PillowTalk420 14 points 3 years ago
With how many call backs, jokes and references I've seen in the main plot: it doesn't take itself too seriously. Half of the jokes have been directly related to the lack of dialogue options and having a silent protagonist.
PillowTalk420 6 points 3 years ago
Fully agree. Lots of jokes; they're not very funny, tho. IDK... Maybe it will get more interesting the further I get. I still wanna check out Neon (the cyberpunk city) and do deep space exploration (can't even get out there yet). I've been to a museum ran by the Starship Troopers faction that gives a ton of exposition on the lore and it was a chore to stay awake through all that.
bennieandthez 7 points 3 years ago
It's "fallout in space" but without the stuff that makes fallout good.
UnverifiedAPK 7 points 3 years ago
"fallout in space but without the stuff that makes fallout good."
So Fallout 4 in space.
NegativeLookBehind 8 points 3 years ago
Cmon guys stop being mean to Todd
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reverendsteveii 8 points 3 years ago
Had me in the first 2/3, ngl
sentient_loom 6 points 3 years ago
I think it's a fantastic game.
ErinCrush 4 points 3 years ago
Stop complaining. Play it if you want, don't if you don't want to. People just like to be popular and liked. Everyone bandwagoned on Baldurs Gate being good but I can't think of a type of game I hate more than that. Now everyone is bandwagoning on this because A- they don't have an Xbox or a PC, or B- they want to be cool and alternative.
I mean come on, last week everyone was saying "omg Baldurs Gate has no microtransactions! Roleplaying! GOTY!" And now with Xbox/Bethesda making a game just like that, you guys instantly roast it for being......a Bethesda game.
bandario 23 points 3 years ago
I cannot stand turn based combat and generally avoid RPG's these days and even I think this is a ridiculous take.
I don't own BG3 but I've played at a friend's place and that game is about a thousand levels deeper than Starfield. If you like RPG's and mucking around with dice whilst you play computer games, BG3 is a god damn masterpiece.
couragethebravedog 6 points 3 years ago
I hate those types of games and I've still managed to sink 50 hours in bg3 and I'm not even done with the first act yet. It's the new standard for AAA gaming.
bandario 3 points 3 years ago
The larger studios need to take notice. All of the positive press and heartfelt words about this game have been heard the world over.
You CAN deliver a complete product with no microtransactions and have people absolutely frothing over it and make a big pile of cash.
It's REALLY not my cup of tea, but I can't pretend for one second that the game isn't the absolute tits. It's fucking amazing, really. I just can't do turn based. At that point I may as well get a DND group together.
Hadriscus -2 points 3 years ago
Oh, it's turn-based?? I thought I would buy it but turn-based completely ruin the immersion for me. I never understood how you're supposed to suspend your disbelief when everybody politely waits for the opponent to strike.
GoodEye8 10 points 3 years ago
Well if you want to get nitpicky there's no "roleplaying" in a Bethesda games because there are no bad outcomes. Minor spoilers about BG3.
For instance in BG3 I went into a camp swords blazing and murdered everything in sight. Turns out I killed a recruitable companion along the way that I never would've found out if I hadn't read about it online. Technically speaking that's an undesirable outcome because I'm going to miss out on some content but at that moment I didn't give a fuck and similarly the game just went along with it. At no point did the game even hint that maybe I shouldn't kill that character, if anything the game told me the objective is to kill that character. Had it been a Bethesda game I 100% would've been prevented from just murdering that companion and the game had given me a chance to recruit them.
Similarly I reloaded one hard fight 4 times to save a character who was relatively important to the story. That bitch just kept on running into AOE effects and getting herself killed. BG3 didn't give a fuck if that character lived or died because the story would've continued without her. We all know how Bethesda handles characters that are important to the story, they literally cannot die.
And finally I'm currently at a point where the game gave me 2 choices, either I send one of my companions into eternal servitude or another character important to the story dies. Maybe there's a third option that lets me save both but I might've missed it. If this was a Bethesda game there wouldn't even be such a situation because it doesn't matter what you choose, either option has a bad outcome.
And those are just examples from my current playthrough. From what I've seen others play you might not even get to those decisions, which means some decisions will lock out other decisions down the line and that's once again something Bethesda does less and less with each game
Baldurs gate 3 gets praise because it's a great game, Starfield gets shit because underneath it's just Skyrim in space. Are we supposed to give praise for a game that follows a decade old design philosophy? If Doom 93 came out today should we lose our collective minds? No, because the industry has moved forward. Our expectations should be higher than Skyrim. There are good things about Starfield. The moment to moment combat seems excellent and Bethesda clearly has improved the visuals compared to FO4 and FO76. But the rest of the game seems it could've just as well been released back in 2011.
And before you think I'm some hyped up tweeb who is now disappointed that Starfield didn't live up to the hype, I haven't been hyped about a Bethesda game since Fallout 3. I'm well aware how easily Bethesda springs up hype and how the final product doesn't really match the hype they promote. I had pretty basic expectations of what Starfield might be and I feel like Starfield was pretty much in the ballpark to the expectations I had: good shooting, lots and lots of loading screens and menus and very little of actual "space". That's to say I didn't have high expectations in the first place.
szczuroarturo 1 point 3 years ago
That would explain why out of all of Skyrim i only remember the fact that you could kill the girl that invites you to dark brotherhood amd subsequently destroy it.
ErinCrush -1 points 3 years ago
All that gameplay you described? Is ancient. The industry has moved on as you say. You clicked through menus and virtually rolled dice to do that. That's so old, it predates video games themselves.
At least Starfield is more modern than turn based gameplay.
NathanielThomas 9 points 3 years ago path: 0 3097788 3099667, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 8
PreachHard 7 points 3 years ago
Exactly all the hype started after the game released and people banged on about how fucking amazing it is. Nearly 200hrs later and I concur.
PM_ME_FEET_PICS -10 points 3 years ago
It's was a game that was in development for 4 years and they released it still in beta. Only 3 of the 7~ game destroying bugs have even been addressed yet. 4 of them existed and were reported on in the Early Access.
The writing is sub Bethesda, typical of LS.
Enemy base is very weak. Only like 10 different types of enemies in a world with hundreds.
pm_boobs_send_nudes 6 points 3 years ago
Alright, you had me convinced until the sentence "the writing is sub Bethesda".
Yeah..no.
PM_ME_FEET_PICS -5 points 3 years ago
You honestly think BG3 has good writing? It may have had it back when Chris was writing. Not anymore.
bitsplease -1 points 3 years ago
Enemy base is very weak. Only like 10 different types of enemies in a world with hundreds
This alone tells me you barely played the game lol, there are well over 10 distinct enemy types in the first act alone. Hell, I think you might run into close to 10 enemies before you even get off the Nautilus
The writing is sub Bethesda, typical of LS
And this either tells me the same as the above, or that you just have awful taste. The writing is one of the strongest points about the game, and nearly every review of the game agrees, whereas shitty writing is practically a cornerstone of Bethesda at this point.
Totally with you about the bugs, and I also find it frustrating that a lot of bg3 fans are willing to just pretend those bugs don't exist when disgusting it. Everything else you said is just idiotic though
PM_ME_FEET_PICS 1 point 3 years ago
The wiki lists 23 distinct enemy types. Again, in a world with hundreds of classic monsters: where are they?
PM_ME_FEET_PICS 0 points 3 years ago
The writing is very mid. It's cute that you're still in the honeymoon period with the game.
Predictable main story, shoehorned characters and short boring responses.
mranachi 0 points 3 years ago
I think the microtransactions praise was more are, non predatory marketing / extracting every last cent praise. Didn't Stanfield have a premium cost to pay a week earlier or something? Is that not a similar concept, albeit nowhere near as shit as microtransactions.
Are we not all tired of being wrung out for our cash? What's so wrong with just charging what you need so that you can make a game.
ErinCrush -17 points 3 years ago
My GF played it a lot and I saw so many bugs, quests breaking, and crazy difficulty spikes. But when Bethesda has some bugs? Oh my gosh, people start rioting. People just love to hate when they get the chance.
MindSkipperBro12 2 points 3 years ago
What did you GF play it on?
Meowoem 2 points 3 years ago
Yeah it's weird, I've seen a few really annoying bugs in bg3 and a fair bit of plot confusion and quest muddling - if Todd had made it people would be screaming about that and ignoring all the great parts.
Half my inventory is full of random things I don't know if I need, most from weird side quests that were never really explained or resolved in any meaningful way and I've forgotten about. The writing isn't bad but it's often confusing, I often find myself having to pick at random because I haven't memorized enough weird names and background lore to know what I'm actually saying.
The leveling and combat system is top notch though so props to them for inventing that.
And I'm certainly not saying it's not great, it's a great game and a lot of fun but if it had been the target of a anti circlejerk rather than a pro one we'd be seeing a totally different side to it.
ErinCrush 1 point 3 years ago
Exactly. It always seemed to me like the game was held together by tape and toothpicks. If Bethesda, EA, Ubisoft or some other bigger company had made the game, people would give it a 6-7/10 and would complain up and down about the mechanics.
mayo 17 points 3 years ago
No it's just another video game. The core competency of this developer is dialogue interaction or dialogue puzzles that help create a sense of immersion in a world with lots of RPG mechanics. It is more or less in line with their previous games. There are quite a few tacked on features.
There's so much media coverage of video games these days I think it makes it hard to just have them stand on their own merits without having every detail examined and compared across every game that has ever released. People who are spending the money on video games as entertainment will be entertained, but this isn't a genre defining product and it isn't a flop either.
drcobaltjedi 13 points 3 years ago
No nor is it "buggy" by any real stretch.
People like to shit on every Bethesda game since they don't like their brand of RPG. For them roll playing means you can do whatever the fuck you want. Do you want to go off and kill every person in sight, well it's a bethesda RPG so yeah go for it. Do you want to go into people houses at night and steal all their food and mess up the place? go for it. Do you want to... etc. Hell this idea runs so deeply, there's a mechanic in oblivion I beat you didn't know existed, goblin warfare. It's real, it's just also buggy.
Yeah it's another bethesda RPG, now with space. I've been having a blast with the game so far.
TrousersMcPants 13 points 3 years ago
No, I actually like it more than I liked fallout 4 on launch so far. It's just really popular to call Bethesda games shit on the internet
peopleproblems 10 points 3 years ago
To be honest, they really improved on what they built with F4.
The outpost mechanic, the ship building (oh my God I live ship building) the exploration, jet packs, missions, etc. It's exactly what I wanted.
TrousersMcPants 2 points 3 years ago
I haven't gotten into the outpost and ship building quite yet, but the exploration is way better than I expected from mostly proc-gen worlds
Cold_Brew_Enema 12 points 3 years ago
Lemmy is like Reddit In that the popular thing to do is shit all over a game you haven't even played. The hivemind circlejerk is real here, too
WarmSoda 1 point 3 years ago
I haven't seen anyone here shitting on Baulders gate, Armored Core, or even Elden Ring. Seems to just be Starfield.
And most of the negative responses have been pretty fairly laid out. Not shitting on it.
SadTrain 6 points 3 years ago
I am having fun with it. The only thing I've been super aggravated with is surveying planets. I love the concept, but it kinda sucks having to run thousands of meters to try to hunt down the last little space roach you need for completion. Traversal in general is the game's weakest aspect. Lemme fly in low orbit to pinpoint where I want to land.
I ran into some storage issues and I'm working to fix that now. The ship building tool is VERY clunky, but I love the ability to upgrade certain parts to my ship and junk.
ace 6 points 3 years ago
Personal thoughts - being about 15 hours in; the exploration part is far from exciting, the gunplay is not much improved since Fallout 4, the crafting systems have not really evolved at all, the outpost construction system feels very disconnected from any other gameplay - being a completely optional resource sink more than anything else, the ship construction system is clunky as anything and has a bunch of drawbacks to it, the usability of the UI is mediocre at best - probably slightly worse than the original Skyrim UI, the economy seems completely broken - you're very obviously meant to have 2-3 digits fewer in your credits than what the game awards you for regular play even without heavy looting, the characters are rather weakly written and seem strangely delayed in reactions to the story, your chosen backstory never has an actual role in gameplay - only been able to skip two 1k credit payments and a "put the cube in the cube hole" puzzle with it so far, etc.
It's very much a Bethesda game. I'm definitely going to finish the main story - and probably poke into a bunch of the side content as well, but this is definitely not looking like a game I'll have more than a single playthrough in.
I actually ended up bringing out a USB dancepad I've got laying about to play with, since I had to do a bunch of on-planet stuff, and standing and drinking tea while waiting through the traversal for those missions felt much nicer.
Amaltheamannen 3 points 3 years ago
Only watched like 2 hours of gameplay footage but seems to have learned from the mistakes of Fallout 4 while keeping the fun stuff like legendary items and weapon customization. If you like Bethesda games and sci-fi I think you'll love it.
totallymojo -4 points 3 years ago
At least I thought so. Refunded after 10 hours on Steam.
Did not feel like a game from 2023. Did not want to pay that much for that quality.
canadrian 4 points 3 years ago
I’ve put about 200 hours into Oblivion and 180 into Skyrim, 150 each into Fallout 3 and Fallout 4, all without mods. Been happy every time. I think the whiners need their attention spans checked. Go watch Paw Patrol if you need constant action, you big babies.
RobertOwnageJunior 3 points 3 years ago
Is the performance difference big if you play from HDD or SSD?
Dubious_Fart 4 points 3 years ago
I've seen posts elsewhere that say 5min+ loading screens on HDD that tried to install it to their HDDs. game does a LOT of asset streaming.
YeetPics 2 points 3 years ago
I saw a massive difference, had my original target drive set as an hdd, could barely open a menu without a hangup, dialog and character face movements suffered as well.
I moved the entire file over to my ssd and it was a night and day difference. No lag issues anymore.
BetaDoggo_ -13 points 3 years ago
There should be no performance difference. The only difference should be in loading screens and possibly pop-in from streamed assets.
NBJack 9 points 3 years ago
This won't hold true if your RAM gets to the limit, and you end up creeping into swap space. If you do, everything becomes a potentially streamed asset! While certainly not ideal, you'll feel it harder on a HDD vs. SSD. Remember, you need at least 16GB of RAM for this monster, which these days is basically standard on most PCs (and about 70% of all Steam users as of August have no more than 16).
RobertOwnageJunior 2 points 3 years ago
Is the game generally demanding, though? Don't exactly have a top of the line setup.
Baphomet_The_Blasphemer 2 points 3 years ago
b3nsn0w 0 points 3 years ago
extremely, based on the testing by gamersnexus and hardware unboxed. even a 4090 can only get you 90-100 fps on ultra without upscaling (of which only fsr 2 is present, which is generally horrible in terms of image quality). performance drops off accordingly, if i'm not mistaken you have to drop to medium on a 3060 to get 60fps at a render resolution of 1080p.
based on the numbers we've seen, i wouldn't recommend high settings on anything but a 40-series, on which you probably want both dlss and framegen (for which you'll have to install a mod, thankfully those are already out). the combination of those two gives you a clean doubling in performance, although latency doesn't improve compared to native rendering. on older nvidia cards, you're stuck with regular dlss, and scaling down render resolution unfortunately doesn't have anywhere near as pronounced of an effect on nvidia as it should be based on current testing.
amd cards have anomalously high performance in this game (which is kinda sus tbh), they generally perform on par with the nvidia gpu a tier above them (so an amd gpu that normally matches the 3060 would perform like the 3070 in starfield -- or rather, given the lackluster visual quality, the 3070's performance is currently pushed down to the 3060's level, while amd is unaffected by this). there is also no raytracing in the game yet (even though we know they worked on it because they hired for that role, and because it's 2023) so at the moment if you have an amd card you'll have a great time in starfield, performance doesn't suffer the same limitations, and the technologies you would miss out on aren't implemented yet.
on the intel side, however, the game doesn't run at all. most of the time you won't even get to the menu, and if you do, rendering is completely borked. it is unclear yet if the issue is with bethesda or intel, but given that it's an amd-sponsored game, the charitable interpretation is that they didn't test on intel hardware at all or give intel any time to fix stuff, and the less charitable interpretation is that they're intentionally locking out intel cards.
Dubious_Fart 3 points 3 years ago
I'm on a 6700xt. I run the game at ultra and I've never had an unplayable dip at 1080p. worst i've had is like..40s in New Atlantis. Which is fine for ultra across the board for a non-combat area. N
samus12345 3 points 3 years ago
I does indeed start out slow, but it gets better after a certain point in the main quest. It's a fairly standard Bethesda open world game, so just don't be expecting something more and you should enjoy it. One thing I've appreciated as a hoarder is that your run speed doesn't decrease even when you're hugely encumbered, your stamina (oxygen) just goes down as if you were sprinting.
Spudwart 3 points 3 years ago
I have zero issue with people saying a boring game is boring.
I have 100% issues with people making the most unintelligible takes on any game though.
Within a week of release I’ve heard about Starfield because of Pronouns and not being able to land on gas giants.
I am convinced, now more than ever, that XTwitter is worse than lead poisoning.
MrRazamataz 2 points 3 years ago
question is how many of yers have paid for it huh
youhavemykeys 1 point 3 years ago
i've seen a couple of people play the start, it looked fun
sturmblast -2 points 3 years ago
agreed lol
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bethesda announces game concept.
people freak.
bethesda announces game. 
people hype.
bethesda starts hyping the game.
people go fucking nuts hyping the game as a result. their social media team plants those seeds to make it look organic.
a year or more of speculation occurs.
todd howard being his little schmuck self comes out and boasts about their new game.
people lose their god damn minds.
whispers of shitty gameplay start occurring closer to launch.
the masses tell those people to fuck off how could they know, dishonest review etc etc.
the big names in game reviews all review it and give it out of the park amazing reviews.
people go batshit crazy. people are out in the streets killing their parents for a chance at the new bethesda god game.
the game is released and is somewhat playable but jesus fuck is it lacking, it’s buggy, and every character looks like they’ve been updated from skyrim graphics of yore. the story sucks. the game play is empty but goddamn is there a lot to explore.
everyone rushes in like a madman.
everyone realizes the gameplay sucks.
people start bitching.
others say “oh don’t worry, DLC and user created mods will fill the game out nicely.”
years pass.
the unpaid modding community pours their heart and soul into making the game not fucking suck.
after all the DLC has come out (all with mostly positive or mixed reviews on steam) the game will go dark for a year or so.
todd howard wakes from his capitalist vampire coma needing fresh life force. the blood money of his unsuspecting idiot fans.
todd howard makes it into the office and says we could make a new game or we can milk this game for the next decade and a half. quick come up with names to rerelease the game under. game of the year edition. complete edition. master edition. elite edition. remastered. remastered complete. anything works!
over the course of the next three decades, todd howard is fed the blood of bethesda’s fan base.
he is swollen, like a fat tick upon his harkonen throne, waiting to burst.
“the people. they call for a NEW game”, he says, a devilish sneer contorts his face.
and the cycle continues.
and these fucking idiots. every goddamn time.
save