Trump is used to negotiating from a position of power because he was born rich and would use lawyers to do his dirty work. He's never had to learn how to actually negotiate so he's trying to use threats and blunt force.
He can't buy the pot this time
That's not negotiating, that's extortion. And he's not even good at that.
That’s the insidious side of them accusing the 2020 of being stolen so adamantly. You can’t turn around and do the same for 2024 without walking straight into copying the same behavior (albeit genuine rather than projection). This takes away a lot of strength from the argument, normalizes and waters down stolen election drama.
I think there is evidence, but it’s not made a big deal of. The media conglomerates are complicit. Their investors want the same corpocracy late stage capitalism that the tech bros and grifters do. Collectively, they have taken so much wealth and control over our system that it’s hard to even market one particular crime in all the deluge.
They didn't even sentence him for felonies he was convicted of. It’s like they just collectively decided not to pursue any legal action against the president.
That is the first time I here about the Dems for about the length of the current war. Where the fuck are they? What are their policies? What is their strategy? They need to activate themselves and pull America out of this Trumpian disaster
Infighting and bitching about each other and blaming a straw man for not stepping up instead of stepping up.
Go run for office. Go join a campaign. Go donate or volunteer. They are like you. Act.
I mean look at US delegation.
- Kushner - son in law of trump, a real estate guy
- Witkoff - a stupidest person in any room he enters
- Vance - zero experience in any negotiations
- then the Pakistani proxy which supposed to negotiate on our behalf, but because he is proxy it is like playing game of telephone
Important to remember that Amjad Taha is a POS warmonger and pro-Israel/US whore. He will tweet anything to please his masters across the sea. The Emiratis are in bed with Israel and see any deal as bad for them as it is for Israel.
I heard the US never said thank you for Iran allowing the straight to be open again so they closed it.
TLDR
"LOLOL we made the US delegates wait and didnt shake hands, they so weak."
Stupid Shits.
Well, it's about perception isn't it... America (Trump) is very sensitive about perception.
While this regime is huge on optics, this shit has gone on for millennia. I remember reading that Obama was pissed his handlers kept telling him to wait for the repubs to call him and not for him to call them as it would show weakness or some BS. He was like idgaf we need to start negotiations! The handlers just told him that's how DC politics worked and it would affect negotiations.
It's also why trump used to jerk ppl in when he shook hands to "throw them off guard" and make him look stronger and more dominant. His dying ass doesn't do it anymore cause he can barely stand or walk anywhere for more than 10 minutes. If he tried it now, the other person would just pull him and he'd fall.
Or they'd pull a rotten arm off.
The world should focus way more on like, dunno, science, facts and shit like dat, instead of stupid powergames.
Yes, I agree. They should. But they aren't.
But they are idiots. A small part of me is happy any time they aren't, but this is really just pointless signalling by morons, for morons, about morons.
Sweet reason is a wonderful thing. But without those stupid power games, it doesn't matter if you have the more convincing factual argument, you'll still be marginalized.
The ancient Greeks taught logic, but they also taught rhetoric. You have to be right, and you have to be able to convince others that you're right. Two separate skills.
BlueMAGA energy.
Israel is massacring hundreds of people a day across Lebanon, while the liberal media is fully fixated on whether JD Vance had to listen to On Hold music for a minute in Switzerland.
No coverage of why these negotiations are delayed or what the stakes are. It's all just optics.
The dirty secret that nobody wants to tell you is... in the West it's liberals all the way down.
Some are just more scratched than others.
I think you're confusing the Anglo-Saxon countries and their Press with "the West".
Outside places like the US, UK and Canada the whole "lets talk about Identity Politics instead of Wealth Inequality" "liberal" propaganda technique to disguise their authoritarian pro-Oligarch ways didn't really took hold anywhere as much.
Granted, the rest of Europe is sliding towards the same increasing use of the tools of autoritarianism (most notably civil society surveillance), but that's not led by "liberals", that's led by the traditional Right which at the moment is in power in most of Europe, was a large majority in power when the current EU Commission was chosen and is currently a majority in the EU Parliament.
In most of Europe "Liberal" techniques such as their performative "fight for equality" that very explicity excludes talk of Wealth Inequality are only common for fringe (supposedly) leftwing parties.
Even though - in my experience - the posh deceit discourse techniques have migrated from the US and UK towards other European countries, even the mainstream old center-left parties (which are now Neoliberal and well to the right of center) haven't adopted the heavy identitarian discourse you see in their supposed equivalents in the US and UK.
Mind you, the mainstream "center"-"left" parties in most of Europe are sold out and as rotten as they come and mainly represent the rich, they're just not playing the "liberal" theatrics that you see in the Anglo-Saxon sphere and do still once in a while do things which are actually for the many rather than for the few.
MAGAs are such pathetic losers, and literally EVERYBODY in the entire world can see it. And worse, even MAGA knows it, and they try to cover it with bullying, threats, and intimidation, which have long stopped working on anyone but their own loser following.
Their legacy as corrupt, treasonous, racist, misogynist pedophiles is fully forged, and there will be no redemption, reevaluation, or forgiveness.
You assume these fuckers self reflect! Lol!
They had their chance to overthrow the republic in Q1 and they threw it because the moderate Republicans got scared and some of those checks and balances kicked in (as per recent NYT reporting). Now they're just fumbling. Should have dealt the death blow to American democracy when they had the chance.
SHREDDED
AIR-FRIED
I gotta say. This is the most shallow BS I have read. How about we focus on actual progress instead of focusing on the pre fight weight check BS shinnanigans.
Pretty sure vance will lose on the negotiations too. And that is what really matters. Let's have some substance to the well deserved bashing.
I generally agree with you, but there are also a bunch of older generation 'norms' and etiquette things at play in some of these situations / scenarios.
So first off, there's definitely back channel reasons for some customs/behaviours. Consider for example the recent example from Trump's trip to China, where Xi had Trump sitting in a lower chair, with the intent of creating a specific dynamic to the meeting and photo-ops. Or how Putin made sure to introduce Merkel to his pet dogs, having discovered she had a fear of dogs. Higher-tier diplomacy often involves such shenanigans, in part as it sends a message in itself.
One older tradition/norm, or 'way to flex', is exactly what the article mentions -- showing up late. There's an old saying I recall hearing my mom say (passed to her from her dad), along the lines of "If you need to meet with someone, arrive 5 mins early to be respectful of their time. If someone needs to meet with you, arrive 5 minutes late so that they understand you're busy / getting your time is a privilege". In more modern terms, think of it like a webinar/video meeting -- if you need to attend a webinar/virtual meeting, you should be logging in to the system early to make sure there are no technical issues on your end. If it's not something you need to attend, or if you don't care about it that much and are just pressured to go to check a box on a list for your boss, you might not bother pre-checking connections: you don't care if the other party has to wait 5 mins for you to sort it out, you don't care about wasting their time.
Honestly, even in the private sector, I've cancelled meetings with people if they're more than 5 mins late without notice, though you'll usually allow for at least a 15 min window depending on what's on the agenda.
That said, it's clearly getting spun to try and drum up clicks. They don't mention how long people were waiting, for example -- big difference between Vance waiting 5 mins, and him waiting 2 hours.
Exactly this. It’s the “Doctor requires you to be 20 minutes early to your appointment, then makes you wait in the checkup room for 45 minutes” scenario. You’re there to see the doctor, not the other way around. The doctor’s time is more valuable than yours is, and you’re the one who needs to see them. So they have no issues with making you wait if they’re busy. You aren’t the priority in this scenario.
Is it petty mind-game BS? Yes, absolutely. But it’s also very telling about where each country stands on the diplomatic field.
This is part of the results. The "honor" of a state is a soft power resource, that is relevant to a lot of other states and will influence their behavior towards it.
I call BS. I don't think anyone is saying... we better give the, what they want. They show up late.
They look at the agreements that come out of the negotiations.
They got pocket fuckits!
That childish administration is getting tossed around everywhere they go. Some say their goal is not to serve their country but to distract away from a criminal ring, which would explain why they're so out of touch.
I wish Trump supporters were smart enough to realize how stupid they are.
But I guess that's the thing about being unbelievably stupid.
We all know he's gonna go home and exert power to make himself feel big again...and then he'll have to go shopping for new furniture afterwards
He really puts the "lay" in "You've been such a Lay-Z-Boy."
Who comes first, who talks last, who has the fragiler ego, who the smaller dick. And this is why we should abolish the practice of personal talks in politics. It's not about you, dumbfucks, but the people you represent.
We should honeypot all power seeking people and trap them in a matrix like vr.
Not the VR part, but what if you could construct a scenario where all the power seeking people end up in what they think is a bunker where they are controlling everything, but actually it's one of many prison cells where the scenario dictates you have to stay inside or lose your grip on power. You can only walk out if you decide you don't want to rule the world. A prison without locks or guards.
How about instead of a matrix like vr, it's a deep hole in the ground?
JD is a clown...
Hey now, clowns play an important role in society! They provide levity and comedic reprieve. Don't you insult them by comparing them to someone as useful as a hammer lubricant.
I'm just imagining the Iranian negotiators bombarding Bowman with an incessant barrage of hockey-player trash talk, until he curls up in a ball and cries. "I've seen your mother's pussy. It's you, ya loser. Does your mouth bleed once a month?"
Then playing Plastic Bertrand in his hotel room, especially the part with "I am the king of the divan."
But as @Modern_medicine_isnt says, let's see how it plays out. My personal view is that Vance can't even fart without asking Orangeman's permission, adheres to a morally bankrupt, imbecilic ideology, and even if he were free to act, which he isn't, he's too spineless to actually decide anything.
Except for Iran's reps not shaking hands I didn't really understand what was so humiliating. Doesn't seem to mention the points that "made it clear who's desperate and who's not"
Without knowing what else went down, a lot of diplomacy hinges on otherwise minor gestures to signal intent. Stuff like the head of state summoning the ambassador to receive an admonishment on behalf of their country isn't technically a big deal, but it's a safe, nonthreatening way to express discontent. It doesn't threaten sanctions or worse, but it does demand the other take it seriously.
To extend your hand is a token of trust and good faith, or just basic respect for the other party. Snubbing it is then an act of disrespect, a breach of protocol that could end up sabotaging negotiations. Why should I trust you to negotiate in good faith, if you refuse even the most basic gesture of good faith?
But Iran clearly isn't worried whether the US will take offence or trust them. That is the part that makes it clear who's desperate: Iran believes and signals that belief that the US has no choice but to trust them. They can afford to be rude because the US has no effective recourse. The negotiations are going to happen on Iran's terms, because the US needs them to happen at all.
It's kind of a bully move, but Iran can't exactly afford to choose the moral high ground and the US doesn't have a leg to stand on to complain about bully moves either.
Edit to add, upon reading the article: The same logic applies to making the US delegation wait. It's not polite, but the US needs the negotiations and accordingly their delegation will grit their teeth and wait rather than making their indignation clear by walking out.
Hes got a small penis, is why.
Vance’s beard
Usha? What do you mean "glued on"?
Buddy.....Vance is the definition of Fecklessness. We all know it. One day, donny boy will be gone and we're gonna cheer for it.
I certainly don't give a feck about Vance.
Fascists are cucks. Their whole world is about power and hierarchy, so they become naturally subservient in the presence of anyone who pounds his chest just a little more.
Would you like to have the power to do that? prepares to write down a name on a pad
“In diplomacy, the side with leverage doesn't wait in the room,” Taha wrote. “You claim to be leading and winning, yet you arrived first. First mistake.”
Taha also flagged a telling moment from Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghci, who Taha claimed “entered last and refused to shake hands,” a claim supported by reporting from the Iranian news outlet Tasnim News Agency.
... That's it? The headline seems hyperbolic.
Back when I was a kid, showing disrespect wasn't calling someone a dumb nickname and mud slinging on Twitter.
Trump made that normal, sure. But it's trashy trailer park behavior.
Other countries have real dignified professionals qualified to do their jobs, not shaking hands and leaving without talking to the VP of the US, was plenty.
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IDK if any of this is what it looks like, but it's in the context of complete diplomatic incompetence for a decade. None of these people know what they are doing on the international stage. They made their careers as US mob bosses and bullies pretending to be politicians, and don't understand anything beyond that scope. When Trump could no longer pull world leaders off balance with stupid handshake tricks, he looked like an idiot for a while. Whenever he or his lackeys encounter someone who can't be bribed, intimidated, or extorted they sputter like Elmer Fudd because they have no other tools.
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