For the most part this it’s true, although it’s possible to do it securely. Security cam footage stored in iCloud is end to end encrypted. Apple can’t access it.
dogdeanafternoon 3 points 3 days ago
Darkassassin07 27 points 3 days ago
I wouldn't bet on that.
cantstopthesignal 33 points 3 days ago
E2E doesn't matter if you don't control the other end.
mycodesucks 9 points 3 days ago
Yes. 100%. End to end encrypted means the decryption key is at the other end. Where Apple is.
If it were ACTUALLY secure you would have BOTH the encryption AND decryption keys and Apple would only have a useless, unreadable, encrypted binary blob.
GamingChairModel 1 point 2 days ago
E2E in the context of data stored at rest conceptually just means that "current you" is sending data to "future you" where the two ends are "current you" and "future you."
Always question and audit the implementation of any E2E claim by a vendor, but the term itself refers to how only those with authorized access can decrypt, and that the service provider itself need not be authorized.
dogdeanafternoon 3 points 3 days ago
You don’t have to bet on it. Just look it up.
Ptsf 8 points 3 days ago
Idk why you're being down voted. With ADP enabled and using icloud secure cameras the data is encrypted by keys stored only on your local devices, Apple has no access to these keys and there are no recovery options through apple. If you lose all of your devices and your recovery code and your login information, the data is gone. This has been validated by independent third parties. It's also worth noting that apple still to this day hosts the only corporate "fuck you, we're encrypting it" public memo I've ever seen at https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/ .
dogdeanafternoon 7 points 3 days ago
I’m being downvoted because I dare say something positive about Apple. People don’t like that here.
0_o7 2 points 3 days ago
Sure, let's stick to facts like Apple is the most privacy oriented company in the world and regularly gives a "fuck you" to the government.
Apple admits to secretly giving governments push notification data - Ars Technica
Apple account data is irrecoverable.
How to request access to a deceased family member’s Apple Account
Just because you repeat marketing "talking points", doesn't make it a "fact".
Simping for one of the most profitable, closed source, authoritarian friendly, anti competitive, ring kissing pedophile president company is definitely a choice.
Ptsf 2 points 3 days ago
The push notification issue applied to all push notifications including any os that delivered them (Google, Microsoft, etc) which is a valid concern we can discuss, family recovery is not possible with ADP enabled jfc learn to read, and I never stated they were the most privacy oriented company in the world. Hate all you like boo but their implementation of E2E is vetted and legit as any, and idk how any of this is simping because I don't fucking like apple. I'm just not going to subscribe to blind stupid baseless hate that does not follow any factual reality.
theunknownmuncher 7 points 3 days ago
Nope! The only question that needs to be asked is: who manages the encryption keys?
If the answer isn't you, it isn't E2E encrypted.
dogdeanafternoon 4 points 3 days ago
The answer is you lol it’s end to end encrypted. You couldn’t do one google search before making some dumb assumptions?
Earthwormjim91 2 points 3 days ago
Do you actually know anything about Apes E2EE or ADP?
You do control the keys. They’re generated solely on your device locally.
dogdeanafternoon 2 points 2 days ago
I’d love to see some evidence that I’m wrong. No one else has been able to provide any.
Asidonhopo 1 point 10 hours ago
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
unknownuserunknownlocation 60 points 3 days ago
I'm pretty sure the people who are sawing off flock cameras for the most part aren't the ones with ring cameras
VitoRobles 14 points 3 days ago
I think the message is that we should be just as frustrated with ring cameras too, and not saying you should, but if they accidentally get smashed...
weps 19 points 3 days ago
I was watching a murder case on YouTube
An unknown phone number called the victim.
They saw it was a burner phone.
They have video of him buying the phone.
They have video of him walking around in different states.
They have video of him driving around in different states.
They knew where his real phone was at all times.
The video was uploaded 5 years ago.
USA is a crazy on surveillance.
TheColonel 7 points 3 days ago
Was this the one where the victim was his mom? If it’s the same one, it’s pretty insane
FlyingCircus 4 points 2 days ago
All this money and effort spent on catching people who commit crimes, but no money spent on raising people’s material conditions, which would actually prevent crimes.
joenforcer 4 points 2 days ago
Yet they have no idea who abducted Nancy Guthrie 🙄
technocrit 2 points 2 days ago
USA is a crazy on surveillance.
... and prisons, war, genocide, etc... It's all one big shitberg.
mrgoosmoos 1 point 2 days ago
can we get a link
multiplemigs -1 points 2 days ago
america gets the culture it deserves. I have no more energy to care about this bs.
Funkt4st1c 5 points 3 days ago
A quick search looks like the Roman empire at its peak was about half the size of the US. I don't think people recognize the absolute size of the US.
I mean, most people in urban areas agree generally, but even like city to city there are massive leaps in quality of education, climate, policy, social environment, etc etc that all shape how a person thinks and acts.
Soup 3 points 3 days ago
Right, but the very idea of “local culture” has been severely weakened. A guy in Alberta or Alabama are both the same annoying, stupid conservative with basically all the same opinions and crappy “jokes” despite the on-paper differences.
Yes, people are different and the people who hate Flock are highly unlikely(but not guaranteed) to be the same people. On the other hand, I would not be the least bit surprised if many people who are onboard with the Flock hate have no true idea why, and so still keep their Ring cameras because they think they’re different.
Bluescluestoothpaste 2 points 3 days ago
What do you mean? Are flock and ring cameras two different mindsets?
lavander 9 points 3 days ago
As your mail, mobile geolocation and plenty of other data.
The difference is that in flock case the system is “push” (flock alerts the police with their alerts real or due to bugs) while ring/gmail/mobiles is “pull” (police needs a warrant if you are an US citizen, it needs to be processed by the cloud provider, etc) and most crucially police needs to already know what is looking
schipelblorp 11 points 3 days ago
Police don´t need a warrrant to get third party information for you UNLESS that third party refuses.
Guess what?
anewfox 8 points 3 days ago
police need a warrant to view your camera specifically, but they absolutely do not need a warrant to request video from a ring camera stored by amazon. they just ask for it and amazon hands it straight over.
Mistiygirl 9 points 3 days ago
anyone got a source? I know they aren't a good idea but can police really access them?
EisFrei 14 points 3 days ago
They only mention recordings in response to warrants, but yes.
QuinnyCoded 2 points 2 days ago
can you list one, I might look into it if you don't have to pay a subscription
ragebutt 5 points 2 days ago
Reolink and Lorex both make doorbells that expose rtsp streams. They have apps and such but these aren’t necessary, and at least reolink doesn’t require a subscription even with the app (not sure about lorex). The reolink comes in Poe and WiFi version, not sure about lorex. I have reolink Poe cameras (including doorbell) and they work great, everything is local only and aside from the initial config they do not require internet access. I have them on an isolated vlan that has no internet access and they work fine. They make WiFi versions too but in my experience Poe is substantially more reliable if you have the ability to run ethernet
There are many other options too, there’s like a billion doorbell cameras, just research bc almost (if not all) “cloud” cameras can view the footage on their servers. The only thing I’ve seen is encrypted in transit, they all are not encrypted on their servers. This means their employees, intruders, etc can view your cameras (and in the case of stuff like Amazon and Google actively view it to apply ML models as well as actively share with law enforcement with no need for a warrant). This applies to literally every “smart” camera I’ve seen that’s not local only, whether it’s a doorbell, baby monitor, dog treat dispenser, basic security camera, etc
rsky 8 points 2 days ago
I don't know why people are surprised. This feature was the basis of an entire Superbowl ad at the beginning of this year. In other words: Amazon spent millions to tell as many people as possible that their cameras can do this.
megopie 6 points 2 days ago
i think the big difference comes down to that flicks are put up by police departments and city governments, while ring cameras are put up by private citizens.
Like, they both do effectively the same thing, but, criticizing your neighbors for putting up a ring is self censored because people don’t want to come across as “preachy” or judging their neighbors. But no one has any hang ups about criticizing a town government.
I think the bigger issue is that people have not internalized that the companies behind these systems are the real problem, less the people conned in to implementing them.
technocrit 0 points 2 days ago
the big difference comes down to that flicks are put up by police departments and city governments
Legit.
they both do effectively the same thing
Nobody is getting traffic tickets from a Ring camera. That's another important difference here. Car brains do not want to be monitored while operating deadly machinery and they definitely do not want to be held responsible for their violence.
QuinnyCoded 5 points 2 days ago
the design of our house makes it where we can't see who's in the door through the windows and holiday reefs (idk if that's the right word, decorative things that go on the door) blocks the peephole :/
technocrit 6 points 2 days ago
Holiday reefs are way cooler though.
DarrinBrunner 5 points 2 days ago
I tried to come up with a reason to justify a door camera. I couldn't.
If the doorbell rings, and I'm not expecting anyone, then I don't answer it. It doesn't matter to me who it is. I don't need to know.
Also, if I don't answer and it is someone I know, they can call me from my doorstep and let me know it's them.
If a package gets stolen off my doorstep, which has never happened, and doesn't happen much here at all as far as I know, the video is of zero use, unless I know who it is. Because, the cops sure don't know who it is, or even care to find out. You might think that's their job, but you'd be wrong. Their job is to take the report and file it. That's it.
5318008 -1 points 2 days ago
Here's my pitch:
You have a package go missing, and you don't know why. It shows as delivered, but you never saw it. You check the ring camera to see what happened to it, and one of your kids picked it up, took it inside, forgot about it, and when you asked, was too dumb to piece together, "Oh, THAT package."
SalmonTractor 2 points 2 days ago
So get a not ring.
QuinnyCoded 2 points 2 days ago
planning on it
HubertManne 4 points 3 days ago
I thought ring started getting blockback even before the anti flock became popular.
FavouriteShapes 4 points 3 days ago
They love ring cameras because crime so bad
technocrit 2 points 2 days ago
Ha... I'll upvote despite Poe Law uncertainty.
FavouriteShapes 1 point 2 days ago
😁👍
formlessoedon 4 points 2 days ago
Don't take that to mean they will actually respond to a home break-in or car theft 🤣
humanspiral 2 points a day ago
If the police can, then so can CIA and MAGA headed government departments. Could be a shame if they knew your movement timings.
technocrit 1 point 2 days ago
The obvious, important difference is at whom the camera is pointed.
Privileged USAians don't give a shit about the police state stalking their neighborhood, until you threaten them with a traffic ticket then it's time for a "revolution".
bowsertattoo 1 point 9 hours ago
also get rid of ring cameras
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Automated License Plate Readers (ALPRs) are AI-powered cameras that capture and analyze images of all passing vehicles, storing details like your car’s location, date, and time. They also capture your car’s make, model, color, and identifying features such as dents, roof racks, and bumper stickers, often turning these into searchable data points. These cameras collect data on millions of vehicles—regardless of whether the driver is suspected of a crime. While these systems can be useful for tracking stolen cars or wanted individuals, they are mostly used to track the movements of innocent people.
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DeFlock
@sh.itjust.works
494
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3925
Automated License Plate Readers (ALPRs) are AI-powered cameras that capture and analyze images of all passing vehicles, storing details like your car’s location, date, and time. They also capture your car’s make, model, color, and identifying features such as dents, roof racks, and bumper stickers, often turning these into searchable data points. These cameras collect data on millions of vehicles—regardless of whether the driver is suspected of a crime. While these systems can be useful for tracking stolen cars or wanted individuals, they are mostly used to track the movements of innocent people.
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If it records to the cloud, it's not your footage. It can and will be acquired/distributed against your will.
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