Unity Claims PlayStation, Xbox and Nintendo Will Pay Its New Runtime Fee On Behalf Of Devs
3 years ago by alphacyberranger to c/games
Microsoft learned never to leave an EA exec at the wheel ten years earlier, with the disastrous launch of the Xbox One. You know, the all seeing, all knowing, all credit card charging privacy invader with its hooks permanently sunk into the internet, and a camera you couldn't cover, like it was some motherfucking episode of Max Headroom. Allow me to say, "Fuck you, Don Mattrick, and the DRM and surveillance-laden horse you rode in on."
Right. Here's how it works: Your game is on Gamepass, and a user installs it. Now instead of Microsoft paying you $0.15, then you paying Unity $0.10, Microsoft will just pay us directly the $0.10, and you still get your $0.05! See, it's a great deal! Everybody gets their money and you don't even have to deal with the Unity costs! Please, don't go!!
You're assuming Nintendo ever lawyers down
I'm sorry, but I'd be more terrified of Microsoft. A company worth more than nations, (current market cap puts it about the 10th richest country in the world), and who routinely tells other companies to pony up - and they do (look up a software audit if you want to see a corporate shakedown).
Sorry to nitpick, but I see the comparison of a company market cap with country GDP a lot and it's a pet peeve of mine lol. Market cap is the value of the company, while GDP is equivalent to the total "revenue" that a country's economy generated that year. So a better comparison would be 2022 Microsoft revenue vs 2022 GDP of a country.
Market cap isn't even really the value of a company. It's just the last trade price times the number of shares. If someone wanted to buy it, the price would be higher. If someone wanted to sell it, the price would be lower.
And gdp is one of the worst ways to measure the economy of the country.
You don't need to be sorry. I guess I should rephrase my original statement to say Microsoft could buy unity, and the shareholders might not even notice in the quarterly earnings call.
Nintendo looooves to sue people over so many things though
Nintendoss lawyers right now:
If they aren't already paying royalties to Unity on behalf of the devs, then I can almost guarantee they won't be paying royalties in the future. If they are doing that, then the devs might want to double check their revenue, because that may mean that Unity's been double-dipping on royalties (taking royalties from distribution through Sony, MS and Nintendo, and then taking them again directly from the devs).
It’s like when CDPR said everyone could get refunds for CP2077 without talking to the stores first, then were shocked when Sony removed it from the PlayStation Store.
Technically, CDPR being based in Europe were just informing people of their stuatory right to a refund within the first 14 days of any digital or online purchase. This highlighted that Sony have been managing to skirt that legislation with their policy's and not having a proper refund system in place so they threw a wobbler and took the game down. CDPR were in the right, legally speaking, with that one.
Yep, although at least that was a pro-consumer move on CDPR's part. It's very understandable why Sony wasn't happy about it, but it wasn't a shady move on CDPR's part. Whereas the same definitely can't be said for Unity right now.
It’s more, you gotta let your partners know before you announce something major. The reason Sony had to pull it was because they only allow refunds after a certain point on defective games, and they can’t sell a game they know is defective. So the only way they could do blanket refunds is if the game is labeled defective, which means they can’t sell it. Giving Sony a bit of a heads up might’ve meant they could have changed their policy, which would have been better long run for consumers.
Oh absolutely, I agree! I just wanted to point out that CDPR's move was at least well-intentioned so it's harder to judge them poorly for it. But you're right that communication is important in these situations.
He could be the kind of person who writes things down on his vision board, then sends his thoughts out into the universe to make them come true. Like Elon.
And Mexico was going to pay for that southern boarder wall...
Yeah, because Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo are companies who would never pass those costs back to the devs or down onto consumers. They'd totally bite the bullet on Unity's new royalty...
Unity are out of their minds if they think this is at all a good move. All they're going to do by pushing devs away and pissing off the major distributors is inspire the creation/adoption of a competitor.
Oh I don't think they imply they will cover the costs. More like the only ones to know exactly the installs will be them, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo , and that's why is done this way. Also to simplify the billing as well they already pay them for putting the game in their respective stores in one way or another.
Of course they could put a remote call that notified back to them in the game engine... and probably will work this way for PC, but probably the console companies might not be too happy about it.
Afaik the engine already phones home for telemetry, that's why they're able to count installs retroactively.
Only loosely, definitely not in the precise way they say they will do it. If they even could do that, it would be a massive privacy violation the likes EU would not be too keen on.
Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft Lawyers united... that's an enemy you don't want to fight. Each department alone is scary enough. All three of them? Now, that's something you want to be on very solid ground for.
We'll call them The Objectors
You can just see the panic coming out of Unity.
They thought they’d be able to slip this change through and people would just pay it. They were expecting a big payday, not a storm of bad press and angry people.
Also now Deva are gonna be skeptical of proprietary game engines. It's too big of a risk to develop on anything proprietary now that this is on the table as a thing that could happen. Change won't ahppen overnight but expect FOSS game engines to start getting big
Or back to it was in ye olden days where every studio has its own proprietary game engine.
No they won't! There's no way any of the big console manufacturers will ever agree to those terms, ESPECIALLY Nintendo. Microsoft would just buy Unity out before paying that ransom. You be smokin' some bigtime crack, Riccitello.
I think they even played that plan wrong. All MS has to do is announce that unity games won't be allowed on game pass anymore and the value of unity will drop. It's probably already in freefall with few new games from this point onwards targeting it.
PlayStation, Nintendo and Xbox claim "no the fuck we won't..."
I wonder how they’d enforce that exactly since none of those companies are likely to have a contract with Unity that says they’d pay anything like that. Their distribution contracts are with the studios… and the studios, if they keep their subscriptions would be the ones contracted with Unity. Good luck telling MS or Sony that your little indie company bound them into a contract with your engine vendor.
By the definition of “distributor” this would include Steam, GOG, Epic, etc. as well.
This sounds like it would mean charging Valve money for the privilege of using Valve's own infrastructure every time a player installed a Unity game after a major PC upgrade/reinstall or after uninstalling that MMO they dumped every other game in their library try out.
Steam could probably bake a ban on software that uses installation trackers into their developer/publisher ToS, or ban the collection or transmission of Steam user data related to installations, or something similar.
Lmao, Unity is not going to get away with this.
Apple also brought Unity onboard for Vision Pro development. They are absolutely going to roll over Unity.
See: a certain owner of a (much less than) $44 billion social media company.
Well he was trying to sabotage Twitter, he just fucked up and ended up holding the reins of the company he undermined.
Good luck doing that too Nintendo. They're professional dicks
Fastest way to have all traces of your engine scrubbed from realty.
Because picking a fight with some of the world's biggest companies is the best form of damage control...
I'd like to watch them try to send an invoice to these companies.
Most likely they won't ever try, it's just a blatant lie because they have no grounds to even attempt it. They have a deal with the gamedev studio, not the platform owner.
They have a deal with the gamedev studio, not the platform owner.
They don't even have that because they're trying to back date this shit, and you're very much not allowed to do that. Otherwise what's the point in even having contracts?
They are definitely taking the whole "can change terms anytime" too far.
They are trying to make a power play against these companies to strike out a deal due to their market share
A problem I see with it is that games that push console sales are made on Unreal (or internal engine) not Unity
However the amount of negative press is overblown as they are starting far in order to give things up during negotiations. And despite saying it’s only charged on first install; I’ve seen people claim it will bankrupt devs
I support devs switching from Unity to Godot but I feel like in a year’s time it won’t really matter as people are more likely to get hired for Unity
However the amount of negative press is overblown as they are starting far in order to give things up during negotiations. And despite saying it’s only charged on first install; I’ve seen people claim it will bankrupt devs
It's charged on ever reinstall, not only on the first.
Whitten told Axios that the company would actually only charge for an initial installation.
Unity's free tier of development services would owe Unity $0.20 per installation once their game hit thresholds of 200,000 downloads and earn $200,000 in revenue.
With pro plans having lower fees and a higher threshold, the majority of devs aren’t going to feel this
Listen peasants, if you don't like the freeholder fees we charge, then surely Lord Microsoft will shelter you on his lands as a serf, and pay your fees on your behalf.
Steam is just a storefront, not a publisher. And traditionally Valve only publishes their own games. While Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony are more broad game publishers. Imagine Casio trying to charge the watch store for every time you look at the time in the watch you bought there. Complete bonkers.
Because Valve also has several attorneys on the payroll and I imagine they're also looking into how to dodge this, or to counter Unity.
I would assume their console export options are due to some kind of agreement with console manufacturers, as they keep their dev agreements under heavy NDAs. I wonder how this will play out.
if how fast
So this is why we go ps plus and xbox game pass prices go up :D xd
People keep telling me that PC gaming is expensive and yet I pay no subscription fees and have plenty of choice for which storefront to purchase from so game prices tend to stay low outside a few exceptions.
I just recently locked in 3 more years of game pass ultimate for $180. That's $5 a month to play 100+ games on console or PC. Granted, much of the catalog is games I already own or games I'm not interested in, but if I play just one full priced game a year from game pass it is paying for itself. Most recently that would be Starfield, and when I got bored after a couple hours there was no pressure to "get my money's worth". I simply uninstalled and moved on.
I realize game pass prices are going up and this deal won't be available forever, but this is my 2nd time around already so the last several years of console gaming have been cheap as shit.
That's my outlook on gamepass. I hardly ever use a console, own 3 xbocs and only know where 1 is and that's sitting in the corner of my living room unplugged for at least 2 years. I get gamepass ultimate a couple times a year for a game or 2 and play for a few weeks then cancel it and move on.
I used to make comments like this and stopped a month ago because peeps hated me saying this or got argumentative with me. Look at you now! LMAO
I made the argument that it's expensive but it was more based on the idea that I can get a cheapo used console with a few games and that'll do me for a whole generation. That and I think that PC gaming has a deeper void to get sucked into (mainly keyboards and monitors)
But now a couple weeks later and I realize that I really enjoy my crappy business desktop PC and I could see building a PC in the future.
They each have their advantages. When I go to a friends house we play console. At home I'd rather play PC, if I had the choice.
Mares eat oats and does eat oats.
Ya gotta love when a corp realizes they’ve stepped in it and starts trying to create an escape route. I’m more than a little surprised that Unity’s board of directors haven’t taken the CEO’s head on a platter yet.
You see, making games is so expensive nowadays. So, now the starting price will be $80 and there will be a convenience fee for every install. No, it doesn't matter that the game doesn't use Unity, we will charge it anyways, just in case.
Isn't the new model based partly on game and/or studio revenue? Sounds really scummy if you put it that way: Unity announces new pricing structure -> costs for devs rise -> they increase game prices -> now they reach the revenue threshold quicker and more often -> costs for devs rise...
Aren't there enough FOSS gamw engines out in the wild to keep indie authors and small companies working without concern for this kind of crap?
Contributing with a cash amount to have work done on any engine would be cheaper and more useful for all parts involved than having to deal with these vampires.
There is a viable open source competitor, godot. The issue is that for many developers who have invested years into their current project, moving engines midway is a ton of effort that might break them financially.
Viable, yes, but I don't think Godot currently matches up to Unity in terms of capability. I do think this will very much get an impetus going for people & studios to invest into Godot's development, though.
And some pretty well known recent indie games have been made in Godot, like Cassette Beasts.
Cruelty Squad was made in Godot. Don't know if that's an endorsement or not as the game is deliberately hideous, but...yeah.
I think they would do Hostile Takeover to Unity
Lol at this point I wonder if it's easier for Microsoft to just buy Unity like their other studios they've been buying. Then they get free installs and charge out to Nintendo/PlayStation.
Yet another wanton feudal lordship seeking its rent.
Next week: Microsoft acquires Unity
Out of your goddamn mind, Ricey Boi.
When are they gonna tell Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo?
Newsflash the Unity drama as a whole still affects the PC market
There's a lot of things it affects. But lets stick with the self serving perspective of your question "How does this affect* me buying discounted games". You personally? Not much, the impact is relatively tame... for now. An aspect that you failing to consider is that devs could raise price of games to offset the cost of the Unity price model change. Sure you could wait for a discount. Safe to say we all appreciate a good discount every now and again. But I encourage you think about that "one" game on your wishlist "If it was just 20% less then I would buy it" But that 20% doesn't end up happening because of the fact that even during this hypothetical sale the devs are still trying to offset the Unity cost. Additionally you failing to consider is that Unity is an incredibly popular starting point for many new devs because of the tooling it has available, many popular titles were started by these indie devs. Games that wouldn't ever have been created because those people wouldn't have ever gotten started if they didn't use Unity.
I don't buy any game until it's at least 50% off via isthereanydeal. Ever. Tons of games I might like have sat on my waitlist for years. Eventually I'll torrent it they never come down.
This reaction is like getting upset with Mexico for supporting the wall after Trump baselessly claimed Mexico would pay for it.
You're acting like this reflects badly on the console makers when a) they haven't confirmed they are on board for this and might instead end up being the ones to kill it, and b) if they were on board for this, they still wouldn't be the bad guys, they'd be helping out devs on their platforms.
Charging Playstation: They have been quite naughty ever since they released the PS4 (and not in the good way), so a few millions in cash is kinda like karma to them.
Charging Xbox: Game Pass, Backwards Compatibility, Series S, allowing you to legally install emulators in their consoles... If there's a gaming giant that's pro-consumer, it's them (second only to Steam, obviously), they don't deserve it.
Charging Nintendo: TAKE IT ALL
I love gamepass/Xbox’s BC commitment but I’m not going to call Microsoft “pro-consumer” lol
Every console requires an online subscription to play MP aside from a handful of games such as apex legends, fortnite, and rocket league. Not just an Xbox thing.
Meh I like Phil Spencer but Xbox has made questionable calls too
Really bad policies that will set even worse precedents are not a punitive measure against companies you don’t like.
@lemmy.world
Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.
Rules
1. Submissions have to be related to games
Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.
This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.
2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil
No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.
We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.
3. No excessive self-promotion
Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.
This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.
4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts
This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you're submitting before posting to see if it's already been posted.
We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.
5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW
Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.
No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.
6. No linking to piracy
Don't share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.
We don't want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.
Authorized Regular Threads
Related communities
PM a mod to add your own
Video games
Generic
- !gaming@Lemmy.world: Our sister community, focused on PC and console gaming. Meme are allowed.
- !photomode@feddit.uk: For all your screenshots needs, to share your love for games graphics.
- !vgmusic@lemmy.world: A community to share your love for video games music
- !freegames@feddit.uk: A community sharing free games giveaways.
Help and suggestions
By platform
By type
- !AutomationGames@lemmy.zip
- !Incremental_Games@incremental.social
- !LifeSimulation@lemmy.world
- !CityBuilders@sh.itjust.works
- !CozyGames@Lemmy.world
- !CRPG@lemmy.world
- !horror_games@piefed.world
- !OtomeGames@ani.social
- !Shmups@lemmus.org
- !space_games@piefed.world
- !strategy_games@piefed.world
- !turnbasedstrategy@piefed.world
- !tycoon@lemmy.world
- !VisualNovels@ani.social
By games
- !Baldurs_Gate_3@lemmy.world
- !Cities_Skylines@lemmy.world
- !CassetteBeasts@Lemmy.world
- !Fallout@lemmy.world
- !FinalFantasyXIV@lemmy.world
- !Minecraft@Lemmy.world
- !NoMansSky@lemmy.world
- !Palia@Lemmy.world
- !Pokemon@lemm.ee
- !Silksong@indie-ver.se
- !Skyrim@lemmy.world
- !StardewValley@lemm.ee
- !Subnautica2@Lemmy.world
- !WorkersAndResources@lemmy.world
Language specific
- !JeuxVideo@jlai.lu: French
go to feed...
@lemmy.world
Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.
Rules
1. Submissions have to be related to games
Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.
This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.
2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil
No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.
We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.
3. No excessive self-promotion
Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.
This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.
4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts
This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you're submitting before posting to see if it's already been posted.
We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.
5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW
Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.
No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.
6. No linking to piracy
Don't share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.
We don't want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.
Authorized Regular Threads
Related communities
PM a mod to add your own
Video games
Generic
- !gaming@Lemmy.world: Our sister community, focused on PC and console gaming. Meme are allowed.
- !photomode@feddit.uk: For all your screenshots needs, to share your love for games graphics.
- !vgmusic@lemmy.world: A community to share your love for video games music
- !freegames@feddit.uk: A community sharing free games giveaways.
Help and suggestions
By platform
By type
- !AutomationGames@lemmy.zip
- !Incremental_Games@incremental.social
- !LifeSimulation@lemmy.world
- !CityBuilders@sh.itjust.works
- !CozyGames@Lemmy.world
- !CRPG@lemmy.world
- !horror_games@piefed.world
- !OtomeGames@ani.social
- !Shmups@lemmus.org
- !space_games@piefed.world
- !strategy_games@piefed.world
- !turnbasedstrategy@piefed.world
- !tycoon@lemmy.world
- !VisualNovels@ani.social
By games
- !Baldurs_Gate_3@lemmy.world
- !Cities_Skylines@lemmy.world
- !CassetteBeasts@Lemmy.world
- !Fallout@lemmy.world
- !FinalFantasyXIV@lemmy.world
- !Minecraft@Lemmy.world
- !NoMansSky@lemmy.world
- !Palia@Lemmy.world
- !Pokemon@lemm.ee
- !Silksong@indie-ver.se
- !Skyrim@lemmy.world
- !StardewValley@lemm.ee
- !Subnautica2@Lemmy.world
- !WorkersAndResources@lemmy.world
Language specific
- !JeuxVideo@jlai.lu: French
go to feed...
The fact that these decisions are coming down from the ex-CEO of EA Games, who was the CEO when EA was voted “Worst Company in the World”, just makes all this even more entertaining to watch.
GamePass and probably most cheap sales are all going up in flames because Unity has hired a demon to lead them into oblivion.
save