schipelblorp 83 points a month ago

This is the police union's idea of solidarity... with the ruling class.

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digitalFatteh 64 points a month ago

Its the main reason the police ‘union’ always gets its pay rise come budget year and Nurses, Firefighters and Teachers are left to fight for the ever diminishing crumbs.

The ruling class will always need there little army of oppressors.

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schipelblorp 33 points a month ago

But firefighters are hallowed FIRST RESPONDERS! /s

I love it that cops know they are hated and so hide behind people that actually save lives instead of murdering people when they "feel unsafe."

You can add paramedics to the list of the grossly underpaid, too.

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chiliedogg 9 points a month ago

My Dad was a firefighter in a city that had a referendum requiring firefighters and police receive the same salaries for the same ranks.

Council let the police hire all officers in one rank higher than the fire department to get around it.

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Cris_Citrus 12 points a month ago

And paramedics also get completely shafted, I think they're often contractors not even state employees, though that may vary

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Polisheocket 6 points a month ago

I’m my area they’re all contractors and the pay is shit. Many try to become fire fighters because starting pay is double

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Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 4 points a month ago

How can ambulance journeys be 1000's and their drivers be paid shit? What stops an independent ambulance service simultaneously paying higher wages and charging patients less?

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Drusas 4 points a month ago

And they suffer a lot of abuse.

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Viking_Hippie 48 points a month ago

Yup!

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VeryInterestingTable 39 points a month ago

You pay the taxes, they evade them. You get controlled, they get protected.

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theunknownmuncher 35 points a month ago

Idk maybe this one

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Drusas 11 points a month ago

Systemic racism is part of the greater class war.

That is a fantastic picture, however.

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BeardededSquidward 2 points a month ago

People don't realize that there must always be an oppressed, second class group of people at best. This way they can made to be out the enemy while being a victim to the system.

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prole 7 points a month ago

It all boils down to the same thing: protecting capital.

During the Civil Rights marches, the whites in power 100% saw these people as a threat to their money, as well as a threat to the established hegemony that had them squarely at the top.

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egrets 6 points a month ago

A 17-year-old civil rights demonstrator, defying an anti-parade ordinance of Birmingham, Alabama, is attacked by a police dog on May 3, 1963.
Bill Hudson—AP Photo

There's a decent article with wider context on the Equal Justice Initiative site.

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Zephorah 24 points a month ago

There’s The Money, and then there’s everyone else.

At this point though, they’re even taking art away from us. They’re not making anything though, only manufacturing trash into giant piles.

End game? No one knows. Not even them.

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cheers_queers 9 points a month ago

i have a few ideas...they wont like it tho

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minorkeys 22 points a month ago

Police protect property. If you don't have any of that, they are not very useful. If you have a lot of it, they're at your beck and call.

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SpikedIguana 5 points a month ago

You forgot the part where if you have a little they steal it.

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minorkeys 1 point a month ago

You never had it, idk what this poor is talking about.

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boaratio 19 points a month ago

Something something class traitors.

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beejboytyson 5 points a month ago

The were never of the people.

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Shindo66 6 points a month ago

You know how in TV shows its always a call from some high powered rich guy pulling strings and calling the chief of police or the like and telling him "you do what i want or im going to make sure youre knocked down to field duty so fast it will make your head spin"? Can you imagine how many strings Amazon can pull? We the people will never have that kind of power over them

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nullspace 12 points a month ago

Your next day shipping fee at work.

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anon_8675309 11 points a month ago

Why does the NYPD look so damn frumpy?

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Viking_Hippie 6 points a month ago

Because there's no mandatory fitness tests once they pass the academy.

Once they finish their 10 minutes of training and get hired by the NYPD, they're pretty much Made Men, mafia style.

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DrSoap 5 points a month ago

Dunkin donuts

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grrgyle 3 points a month ago

Yeah I thought fascists were snappy dressers

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kestrel7_7 3 points a month ago

The NYPD had pretty badass/fashy as hell uniforms back in the 30’s, but not now.

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chilicheeselies 10 points a month ago

It's so funny because they are also in a union. I'm sure this is lackluster for them

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Viking_Hippie 12 points a month ago

They're not in a real union.

Real unions exist to improve the compensation and working conditions of their members.

Cop "unions" exist to make sure they get away with their countless crimes. They do little to nothing of what real unions do

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Formfiller 6 points a month ago

A lot of construction unions are white supremisist gangs. 90% of them are MAGAT cultists. I know because I’m in one and blackballed for speaking up.

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T00l_shed 7 points a month ago

Fucking class traitors, every one of them

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DaleGribble88 7 points a month ago

Red Rover, Red Rover, send freedom on over

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Amuro_eat 7 points a month ago

Dumb fucking idiot pigs

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Hueristic_Autistic 4 points a month ago

They're here to protect and serve...... Their people..... 😔 Not the people.... Their people....

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LemmyBruceLeeMarvin 2 points a month ago

Hope they are singing 'we shall overcome'

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im_fine_sandy -12 points a month ago

I don't get it, honestly.

What would you like the police to do in this situation?

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blindbunny 15 points a month ago

Not be there. Or exist for that matter.

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im_fine_sandy -8 points a month ago

To not be there, they'd have to make a choice about which altercations they ought to attend. Does that really sound like a good idea? If there's a protest with a risk to person or property it seems sensible for a police force to attend to mitigate that risk.

There's a lot of criticisms to be made of any police force, and it's absolutely proper and right to do so in a democracy (even if that's not how things roll on .ml), but expecting them not to attend a protest just because your opinions align with the protesters is pretty daft.

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kestrel7_7 2 points a month ago

Does that really sound like a good idea?

Is that not what they already do?

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blindbunny 1 point a month ago

Who are police mitigating risk for?

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im_fine_sandy 1 point a month ago

The parties who are at risk I guess.

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PokerChips 11 points a month ago

Protect tax payers instead of non tax payers

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im_fine_sandy -3 points a month ago

So you don't want the police to protect homeless people, for example?

I get your witty snarky lemmy-ism, but obviously in practice police can't conduct an assessment of who ought to be protected. They need to just protect everyone. In this case there's no threat against the "tax-payers" if you will.

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PokerChips 6 points a month ago

I don't know what point you're trying to make. Police already do not protect homeless people.

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im_fine_sandy -5 points a month ago

That's a generalisation which isn't true. I'm certain there are innumerable crimes against homeless people which have been prosecuted. What a silly thing to say.

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Polisheocket 5 points a month ago

I think they’re implying that Bezoes doesn’t pay taxes and they very well could be right

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im_fine_sandy -1 points a month ago

That's the witty snarky lemmy-ism I'm referring to.

I get it. Obviously the guy should pay taxes. No one should be able to accumulate wealth in that way.

My point is, it's daft to suggest the police should make an assessment about whom they ought to protect, without reference to the law.

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fratermus 5 points a month ago

So you don’t want the police to protect homeless people, for example?

What we might want and what actually happens are different things. In philosophical terms it's the difference between the normative and the descriptive.

Example: for the several years I was unhoused police harassed me regularly (despite being careful of to break no laws or inconvenience any Normals) and offered help exactly zero times. Admitted it's anecdotal but I don't think it's an outlier case.

"To Serve and Protect [the status quo]"

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im_fine_sandy 1 point a month ago

What we might want and what actually happens are different things.

Yes, but we're sat here commenting on a picture of police protecting corporate property during a protest, so we are dealing exclusively with "what we might want"

Everyone piling on complaining that police shouldn't be doing that, but no one has any idea what a competent and well trained police force would be doing instead.

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bold_atlas 8 points a month ago

Arrest Amazon suits. If not then they should quit and join the strikers,

The fact that you have trouble imagining police NOT being bastards should invoke a realisation that it's not good for us to be at the mercy of mercenary cop bastards in the first place.

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im_fine_sandy -6 points a month ago

Arrest Amazon suits for what crime? Just the vibe? I'm sure you can imagine how that might not work out how you plan.

Its true that citizens should not be "at the mercy" of police. The US does seem to be a bit fucked in that way. The solution to that, or at least the first step in the right direction, would be higher entry requirements, better training, and actual consequences for misconduct.

vibe based arrests of people you don't like is not going to solve your police problem.

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kestrel7_7 4 points a month ago

They should arrest the Amazon execs for regularly and brazenly violating labor laws… the fact that they don’t already is why a lot of us hate cops so much.l

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T00l_shed 4 points a month ago

Wage theft? Environmental damages? Privacy violations? Inhumane working conditions? Bribery and coercion? H&S violation? Insider trading?. Like there is so much they do illegally but they get away with it because they are the ruling class. People have been killed by cops for alledgedly spending a fake 20. The ruling class steal billions, and nothing happens to them.

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prole 2 points a month ago

How about lose like 75% of their funding for a start?

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im_fine_sandy 0 points a month ago

Which police functions would you curtail?

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kestrel7_7 2 points a month ago

All of them. Defund, disarm, disband. There is not a single situation wherein I would ever call the police because they are worse than useless.

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prole 1 point a month ago

Well, an immediate thought that comes to mind is any action related to mental health. We need a separate group that responds to 911 calls regarding mental health incidents, that are not cops.

I would stop, and completely walk back, the obscene militarization of US police forces that has been happening over the last 30+ years. No they don't need military surplus shit built for warzones in the middle east.

And I would consider not allowing them to carry firearms (at least not at all times, or maybe needing remote permission to unlock).(I can't wait for people to glom directly onto this one and ignore everything else I've said 🙄)

I would make covering or turning off a body cam at any time for any reason a criminal (and fire-able) offense.

I would remove qualified immunity.

I'd make it so police need to purchase their own malpractice insurance like doctors so taxpayers aren't the ones paying out millions when they kill people they shouldn't.

That was all off the top of my head. I could probably think about it more and keep going

Edit: the problem really is fundamental. Police exist, and have always existed, to protect capital. Not people (see original photo for prime example).

I'm honestly not sure if it's even possible to remove or change that unifying purpose, and instead shift it to serving people. Especially not with the douchebags we currently have our precincts staffed with.

We need an entirely new type of civil servant for that, I'm afraid.

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im_fine_sandy 1 point a month ago

the problem really is fundamental. Police exist, and have always existed, to protect capital.

This, in my experience (exclusively outside the US), is just plain wrong. If I enumerate my interactions with police over the years the vast majority is personal well being, not corporate property or capital.

They showed up to my neighbours house a few times over domestic violence complaints. Actually she got a restraining order against him, then a few weeks later was threatening suicide, and the police picked him up and took him to see her. They got back together after that (for better or worse, but they do have kids and seem happy enough).

Another neighbour had a psychotic break and appeared in my back yard one morning. The po-po showed up and managed the situation in a humane and sympathetic manner. Actually years later he was prosecuted for possession of CSAM.

I had some expensive trainers (shoes) that were stolen from my front door. I got the perps on camera and the police showed up to see. The thief was known to them and the video allowed them to get a warrant for a search. They didn't get my shoes but they got a bunch of other stuff. I suppose you could call this "protection of capital" but I don't think anyone really thinks of their shoes and other personal effects as capital.

I regularly see the police on the road. Conducting breath tests to check no one is driving drunk. When there's an accident they show up to manage traffic and so on.

My kids (3yo twins) have weekly gymnastics lessons at a local Police and Community Youth Centre. There's always a couple of coppers hanging around. That centre has dance, music, boxing, et cetera. It's not funded by the police but a lot of events and programs are conducted with police participation.

In contrast I called them about an annoying alarm that was going off in a nearby bus-depot all weekend. They were decidedly disinterested in whatever was going on. They looked around and said that there was no sign of an imminent threat or ongoing crime so they weren't going to enter the property. Not much protection of capital going on there.

The assertion that police exist [only to] to protect capital just doesn't align with my observed experience. Sure, police in the US might be more concerned with shooting people, not getting shot, and protecting capital, but that's an American problem rather than a police problem.

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athatet 1 point a month ago

Get a real job.

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blindbunny 0 points a month ago
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athatet 4 points a month ago

Cops don’t do labor because they don’t produce anything.

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blindbunny 3 points a month ago

I apologize I thought you commented on something else. You are correct.

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thepoliceproblem
thepoliceproblem

@lemmy.world

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    The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

    99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.

    When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.

    When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."

    When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.

    Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.

    The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.

    All this is a path to a police state.

    In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.

    Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.

    That's the solution.

♦ ♦ ♦

Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.

♦ ♦ ♦

RULES

① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.

② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.

③ Saying cops ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.

④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.

Please also abide by the instance rules.

It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.

♦ ♦ ♦

ALLIES

• !abolition@slrpnk.net

• !acab@lemmygrad.ml

• r/ACAB

• r/BadCopNoDonut/

• Randy Balko

• The Civil Rights Lawyer

• The Honest Courtesan

• Identity Project

• MirandaWarning.org

♦ ♦ ♦

INFO

• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions

• Adultification

• Cops aren't supposed to be smart

• Don't talk to the police.

• Killings by law enforcement in Canada

• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom

• Killings by law enforcement in the United States

• Know your rights: Filming the police

• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)

• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.

• Police lie under oath, a lot

• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak

• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street

• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States

• So you wanna be a cop?

• When the police knock on your door

♦ ♦ ♦

ORGANIZATIONS

• Black Lives Matter

• Campaign Zero

• Innocence Project

• The Marshall Project

• Movement Law Lab

• NAACP

• National Police Accountability Project

• Say Their Names

• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration

 

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