Users are now getting Android's convoluted sideloading process, and everyone hates it

a month ago by Sunshine to c/linuxphones

Asetru 148 points a month ago

"sideloading process"

I hate it. It's just setting up software I own on a computer I own. It's literally just "installing".

path: 0 25850098, hotness: undefined, score: 148, children: 9

A_norny_mousse 11 points a month ago

I hate it too but tbf its descriptive of what it originally meant: sticking something into the side of your computer (edit: or any device) and loading software from that.

The term isn't invented by Android and didn't have any negative connotation originally. That's all Android's doing.

edit: what's with the downvotes? I'm stating fact and I'm definitely not defending Android in any way.

edit2: I'm just trying to raise awareness of the history of this and other terms, and how Android and other entities sometimes hijack them for their own purposes.

path: 0 25850098 25850329, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 8

18107 20 points a month ago

I "sideload" apps onto my watch because it's done entirely from my phone. I don't need a PC to put apps on my phone, so it's just "installing".

path: 0 25850098 25850329 25850489, hotness: undefined, score: 20, children: 4

A_norny_mousse 6 points a month ago

I don’t need a PC to put apps on my phone

I was refering to the origins of that term. "Computer" as in any device with an OS.

path: 0 25850098 25850329 25850489 25850820, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 1

sem 7 points a month ago

If you are download the software on a separate device, and transferring it over, via adb or something, I'd call that sideloading.

If you're downloading it directly on your phone and installing it, I'd call that installing, regardless of what Google and Apple preferred i call it.

path: 0 25850098 25850329 25850489 25850820 25853080, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0

DmMacniel 1 point a month ago

path: 0 25850098 25850329 25850489 25851121, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

DmMacniel 0 points a month ago

No, that's downloading.

path: 0 25850098 25850329 25850489 25852955, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0

sem 7 points a month ago

It is not descriptive as you claim.

It is circumventing roadblocks put in place, but it is still downloading and installing.

Some people now call it sideloading, yes, and with normal language I'd say accept this mistaken usage as one definition, the linguist way.

But since this is a political fight, i will not accept when anyone follows this big-tech framing of "this is not the right way to install an app. Here's a scary word for it."

Please don't participate in this cultural fight to make something normal sound strange.

path: 0 25850098 25850329 25853027, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 2

A_norny_mousse 2 points a month ago

It is not descriptive as you claim.

It's in the wikipedia article I linked.

It is circumventing roadblocks put in place

But that's what I'm trying to explain and nobody seems to get: that's the meaning Android put into the term. Long before that, it just used to describe "the process of transferring files between two local devices".

One more time: Android adopted this term and made it into something "bad". And I fucking hate that, and everything that entails right now, just like the rest of you.

But the term sideloading is older than Android, and originally did not have this negative connotation, quite the opposite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...

path: 0 25850098 25850329 25853027 25854474, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1

sem 3 points a month ago

Neither wikipedia nor Android are the arbiters for how words get used. I am claiming that we should shun Android's definition since it is self-serving/and deteimental to society.

See for reference these two definitions on wiktionary: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sideload

Anyone using the 2nd definition without criticizing it is supporting big tech. It is not a high bar to ask people to think critically about the words they use.

path: 0 25850098 25850329 25853027 25854474 25855330, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

Sunshine 68 points a month ago

Android is becoming garbage.

path: 0 25849422, hotness: undefined, score: 68, children: 12

kylian0087 42 points a month ago

Yeah Lets hope linux phones pick up speed because of this. Having a fully free and open os for mobile would be great but I fear it is still a few years away.

path: 0 25849422 25850614, hotness: undefined, score: 42, children: 1

erebion 32 points a month ago

It's rapidly getting better.

What we need are phones with hardware that has full mainline kernel support. That way distros would just have to ship a dwvice tree file if that is not upstream yet, not a completely custom kernel with hundreds of patches that becomes trash shortly after buying due to lack of updates.

path: 0 25849422 25850614 25850715, hotness: undefined, score: 32, children: 0

inari 17 points a month ago

pmOS on Fairphone 6 can't come fast enough

path: 0 25849422 25850895, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 2

Sunshine 3 points a month ago

I can’t wait for the stable release!

path: 0 25849422 25850895 25856973, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

goldkiddo 1 point 21 days ago

path: 0 25849422 25850895 25937479, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

mintiefresh 13 points a month ago

It definitely has gotten worse with every update for awhile. They keep taking things that made Android great away.

We need an alternative. Linux to the rescue I dare say.

path: 0 25849422 25853093, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 1

gandalf_der_13te 0 points 25 days ago

I think a de-googled android would be good. Android at its core (Android Open Source Project) is actually a good project from a user-experience point of view. the app navigation and all that makes a whole lot of sense. We'd lose that if we switch to pure linux.

just google has to be entirely removed from the operating system.

path: 0 25849422 25853093 25869074, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0

Cris_Citrus 8 points a month ago

Happy lemmy anniversary, its always lovely to see you around sunshine :)

path: 0 25849422 25850267, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 2

Sunshine 3 points a month ago

Thank you Cris! Here’s to 2 years! Have a slice of the cake!

path: 0 25849422 25850267 25857161, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1

Cris_Citrus 2 points 25 days ago

Ooooh cake ☺️☺️

Have a wonderful day/night! ❤️

path: 0 25849422 25850267 25857161 25868888, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

A_norny_mousse 8 points a month ago

🌍🧑‍🚀🔫

path: 0 25849422 25850315, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0

hanrahan 3 points 25 days ago

indeed , it's becoming Apple.

path: 0 25849422 25868896, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

FoxAlive 66 points a month ago

It was something like 70% of all malware originates from the google play store. Yet to make you safe you can't download apps outside of google play.

Lol.

path: 0 25854427, hotness: undefined, score: 66, children: 2

imetators 8 points a month ago

It's not to make you safe. It is to Co troll what you download. As a side effect, you also are restricted to install cracked apps e.g. Revanced apps.

Nobody cared about viruses and nobody will. They just state so for normies to believe and agree.

path: 0 25854427 25862282, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 1

FoxAlive 3 points a month ago

Oh trust me buddy I know.

path: 0 25854427 25862282 25862413, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

gedfromgont 60 points a month ago

Its a shit process. If they'd just get rid of the 24h countdown it be bearable. But thats exactly the tactic, isn't it, make it as shitty as you can, then you dial it back just a notch so people feel like that is better, even though it is still worse than the original process.

path: 0 25850373, hotness: undefined, score: 60, children: 5

LodeMike 12 points a month ago

Does changing your system time work?

path: 0 25850373 25850937, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 4

hansolo 16 points a month ago

No. It likely looks for external timekeeping from a carrier.

It also only gives you a 1 hour window when the 24 are done to turn on sideloading. So set an alarm.

path: 0 25850373 25850937 25854973, hotness: undefined, score: 16, children: 2

8uurg 18 points a month ago

That one hour window did me in and had to wait another 24. The option is nearly impossible to find, there is no notification when the timer has completed, and there is no indication that you only have an hour ahead of time. I think this qualifies as the option not existing for the average person, even when told about it.

path: 0 25850373 25850937 25854973 25856268, hotness: undefined, score: 18, children: 1

hansolo 11 points a month ago

It takes the dedication of a FOSS enthusiast or a scammer out for money. Which is why it's not really meant to work stopping scams.

path: 0 25850373 25850937 25854973 25856268 25856414, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0

digger 9 points a month ago

It didn't on my phone.

path: 0 25850373 25850937 25852835, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0

Bell 58 points a month ago

Enshitification intensifies

path: 0 25849314, hotness: undefined, score: 58, children: 0

cybernihongo 28 points a month ago

I was wondering when this would come. Even popped open DuckDuckGo and searched for Android news, yet this completely escaped the radar.

I've already removed the verifier and safetycore apps and installed stubs in their place. I also already had Shizuko and now I have gained root access on top of it without unlocking the bootloader.

Google may fuck themselves.

path: 0 25850896, hotness: undefined, score: 28, children: 4

massacre 1 point 25 days ago

If you are going this far why not Graphene or CalyxOS? Genuine interest...

path: 0 25850896 25866374, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1

cybernihongo 2 points 25 days ago

Because I have access to neither on my Xiaomi phone. I do have access to other custom ROMs though but unlocking the bootloader will wipe my data. As soon as I'm ready, I'm considering LineageOS or any of the other available ROMs.

path: 0 25850896 25866374 25868392, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

Arghblarg 1 point a month ago

Is this a good solution doing what you describe? I might need to try it on my wife's Pixel 9 w/stock OS.

https://github.com/slopgirl/android-safety-stubs

path: 0 25850896 25861186, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1

cybernihongo 2 points 25 days ago

I have not used this particular repo but from what I read, it does what it should be doing, replace the real hidden apps with placeholder stubs that have version 2000000 or something to that effect. You should be good with this one. Make sure to read all of the readme carefully, particularly the uninstall methods.

path: 0 25850896 25861186 25868436, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

mesamunefire 28 points a month ago

Its just Linux too. This is a very stupid thing and will only accelerate true linux phones becoming popular.

path: 0 25850561, hotness: undefined, score: 28, children: 0

cupcakezealot 21 points a month ago

that's why i installed graphene on my phone and turned off updates on my tablet so i'm still on android 15

path: 0 25852931, hotness: undefined, score: 21, children: 9

Canuck 19 points a month ago

Google installs the module silently in the background automatically if you have Play Services, it is not related to your OS version. It can be removed with adb, or in some cases disabled

path: 0 25852931 25853098, hotness: undefined, score: 19, children: 8

UnrefinedChihuahua 4 points a month ago

Even on graphene?

path: 0 25852931 25853098 25853886, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 4

Squirrelanna 10 points a month ago

IIRC Graphene has Play Services sandboxed specifically to avoid stuff like that but I'm still learning about how it all works slowly.

path: 0 25852931 25853098 25853886 25854264, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 3

UnrefinedChihuahua 6 points a month ago

Yeah same here.

path: 0 25852931 25853098 25853886 25854264 25854687, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

BeardedBlaze 5 points a month ago

GrapheneOS CAN have play services, which get sandbox. By default though, no play services.

path: 0 25852931 25853098 25853886 25854264 25856951, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 1

BeardedBlaze 3 points a month ago

GrapheneOS comes with no play services out of the box.

path: 0 25852931 25853098 25856941, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1

Psythik 2 points a month ago

Yes but they didn't say they installed GrapheneOS on their tablet, just their phone.

path: 0 25852931 25853098 25856941 25860698, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

Aneb 1 point a month ago

I use aurora store but also fdroid, and I sometimes download for github I haven't stopped auto updates for GrapheneOS tho

path: 0 25852931 25853098 25864579, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

phoenixz 17 points a month ago

How is this legal? Serious question, how can it be legal for a company to dictate what I install on my own computing devices?

Dobtngive me the security crap, that is just a cheap excuse

path: 0 25856432, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 2

Michal 15 points a month ago

Wait till you hear about iPhone!

path: 0 25856432 25858635, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 0

jumping_redditor 1 point a month ago

Probably the same ways cars are mobile computers with no access for the owner.

path: 0 25856432 25862862, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

Lemmchen 13 points a month ago

https://lineageos.org/Developer-Verification/

How does this affect LineageOS and its users?

TL;DR: This will not affect LineageOS directly. But it may affect users running the stock ROM on their device.

When the stock ROM is installed on a certified device, package installation will be gated by the package “AndroidDeveloperVerification”, which will check against the developer’s registered/verified signing identity. Google is providing an “advanced flow” opt in for power users to install unverified-developer apps after acknowledging risk and waiting a full day. This is a one-time toggle to disable verification, not something you have to redo every time you wish to install a package.

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/...

path: 0 25852995, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 0

shortwavesurfer 12 points a month ago

Shit like this is why I run lineage OS and there's a very good chance that my next phone is going to be running post-market OS and not Android at all.

path: 0 25859473, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0

RunawayFixer 6 points 25 days ago

Google would rather block potential competition than attempt to fix their own product.

The Playstore is inundated with fake reviews and paid for discoveribility, pushing awful predatory apps to the top.
Many (I assume, it was several from my small collection) niche clean apps left the play store after increased requirements proved not worth the hassle for the small Devs.
Lots of people report issues with Google Play cards.
Lots of people report being billed for things that they did not consent to.
Google Play support appears to be useless.
https://www.trustpilot.com/...

So the Playstore sucks and it burns too many of their potential customers, resulting in churn instead of retention. Consequently it has seen very little growth since Covid: https://www.businessofapps.com/... . The potential for growth was there though, as can be seen with the apple app store: https://www.businessofapps.com/...

And as a cherry on top, Google has recently started billing cc chargeback fees to developers. I don't know a single other large digital shop platform that does this. More costs and more administration for Devs, which will make the Playstore even less attractive for hobby Devs with a niche passion project.

path: 0 25868405, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

gandalf_der_13te 6 points 25 days ago

Google has declared that they intend to stop making a useful mobile operating system.

path: 0 25869030, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

godsammitdam 5 points a month ago

path: 0 25858867, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

A_norny_mousse -13 points a month ago

Anybody who has an opinion about these things and doesn't just accept everything Big Tech throws at thems saw (something like this) developing for years, nay decades, and had plenty of time to move on. So who exactly "hates it" now? I suspect it's the typical Android App developer who always has one eye on monetization and is therefore willing to accept a lot of shit from the OS they're devleoping for.

Not that I don't agree with them.

path: 0 25850370, hotness: undefined, score: -13, children: 2

gedfromgont 15 points a month ago

and had plenty of time to move on

Sorry, do you mean developers or users, and where exactly do you think one can move to? IPhones? GrapheneOS is still restricted to Pixels and while the Motorolla collab is starting up they already announced that they start with flagship type phones, meaning expensive.

path: 0 25850370 25850397, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 1

A_norny_mousse -7 points a month ago

These are by far not the only options.

Wait, you didn't even mention LineageOS? Since it doesn't come with Gapps/Playstore it's unaffected by any of this.

path: 0 25850370 25850397 25850514, hotness: undefined, score: -7, children: 0

nullspace -29 points a month ago

once you’ve waited 24 hours, you can choose to allow sideloading for seven days or indefinitely.

I know I'm going against the current here, but I don't think this is a bad change at all. It's a step to protect normies from themselves who, despite how inconceivable it is to fall for this kind of scam, are actually even dumber than that.

I do think it's reasonable to be worried about future changes that further restrict sideloading. It's often how these restrictions are slowly implemented. But where it's at now with this change in particular I'm cool with.

path: 0 25851247, hotness: undefined, score: -29, children: 7

cupcakezealot 34 points a month ago

most normies get malware from the play store not sideloading.

path: 0 25851247 25852929, hotness: undefined, score: 34, children: 1

TheFrirish 8 points a month ago

normies don't even know the word sideloading lol

path: 0 25851247 25852929 25853268, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0

ExLisper 29 points a month ago

Normies keep falling for scams all the time. They fall for scam on windows, over the phone and in person. We generally try to come up with rules that protect normies without overly complicating lives for everyone else. Like I have to go to a bank personally to increase single transaction limit over certain amount but I don't have unlock some secret options and wait 24 hours every time I want to wire money to a new account.

A warning saying "this app is not trusted, don't install it if someone else instructed you to do so" would be enough here. Advanced users should be able to disable this warning. That's it.

path: 0 25851247 25852820, hotness: undefined, score: 29, children: 1

nullspace -2 points a month ago

I don’t have unlock some secret options and wait 24 hours every time I want to wire money to a new account.

A lot of services will do the verification step where it sends a few cents to and from a newly linked account which can take 1-3 business days. You only do it the one time. It's a small speed bump that prevents millions of dollars in fraud every year.

To me this change to sideloading is a very similar speed bump. You do it the one time then set it to allow sideloading indefinitely. That's where it's at now.

If they move to extend the delay or strip out the "indefinite" option then yeah, freak the fuck out and grab some pitchforks because that's not good at all. But where this specific change is at I see it as more anti-fraud than anti-consumer.

path: 0 25851247 25852820 25855993, hotness: undefined, score: -2, children: 0

Feyd 27 points a month ago

Installing apks isn't even how normies get scammed, and there are tons of malicious apps on the play store itself. This is an anticonsumer, anticompetitive power grab, plain and simple. Users should be able to do whatever they want with their expensive pocket computers and any other opinion is shameful corporate bootlicking.

path: 0 25851247 25852912, hotness: undefined, score: 27, children: 0

edible_funk 12 points a month ago

My device that I own shouldn't be able to prevent me from using it however I wish, especially just because a bunch of people are too stupid and will break their own shit. Fuck em.

path: 0 25851247 25853364, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0

hansolo 4 points a month ago

Ugh. You're not wrong, but I wouldn't say you're really "right" here either.

Scammers will find a way around this. They always do. But it puts a significant, real burden on people that own their devices and want to things perfectly within legal and social norms. In a legal sense, it "limits enjoyment of one's own property." Which is the same kind of term used for when the stink from a pig farm makes it impossible to go outside. The pork lobby doesn't make the decision to keep the farm, a local judge does because it's about the individual not allowed to use their property how they like.

This limits my enjoyment of my property, and doesn't actually solve any real problems. It's an excuse to lock down the OS for closed commercial use.

path: 0 25851247 25855133, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

linuxphones

@lemmy.ca

login for more options

The Discussion on Linux-based Phones.

**Benefits**:

Hardware freedom.
Perfect operating-system competition.
Full utilization of specs.
Phone lifespan raises to 10+ years.
Less e-waste.

**Linux Mobile Distros**:

Sailfish🇫🇮
Ubuntu Touch🇩🇪
Nura🇧🇪
Mobian
Pure OS🇺🇸
FuriOS🇺🇸
Plasma Mobile🇩🇪
LuneOS
openSUSE Mobile🇩🇪
Nemomobile
Droidian
Mobile NixOS
ExpidusOS
Maemo Leste
Manjaro Arm
Tizen
WebOS

**Linux Mobile Hardware**:

Fairphone 6🇳🇱
Jolla Phone🇫🇮
Volla Phone🇩🇪
Shift Phone🇩🇪
FLX1🇺🇸
Librem 5🇺🇸

⚙️Contribute

🧼Go Clean From the Duopoly:

💻Related Communities:

📰News:

💬Messager:

!matrix@programming.dev

⌚️Watch:

go to feed...

linuxphones

@lemmy.ca

login for more options

The Discussion on Linux-based Phones.

**Benefits**:

Hardware freedom.
Perfect operating-system competition.
Full utilization of specs.
Phone lifespan raises to 10+ years.
Less e-waste.

**Linux Mobile Distros**:

Sailfish🇫🇮
Ubuntu Touch🇩🇪
Nura🇧🇪
Mobian
Pure OS🇺🇸
FuriOS🇺🇸
Plasma Mobile🇩🇪
LuneOS
openSUSE Mobile🇩🇪
Nemomobile
Droidian
Mobile NixOS
ExpidusOS
Maemo Leste
Manjaro Arm
Tizen
WebOS

**Linux Mobile Hardware**:

Fairphone 6🇳🇱
Jolla Phone🇫🇮
Volla Phone🇩🇪
Shift Phone🇩🇪
FLX1🇺🇸
Librem 5🇺🇸

⚙️Contribute

🧼Go Clean From the Duopoly:

💻Related Communities:

📰News:

💬Messager:

!matrix@programming.dev

⌚️Watch:

go to feed...