They are victims as much as they are villains.
ComradePorkRoll 52 points 3 years ago
Track_Shovel 26 points 3 years ago
Very much so, which makes it all that more sad.
I'm in no way excusing their villanry, but most are so delusional that they won't ever take a hard look at the way they are and wonder if they could be something else or if they need to change
zwekihoyy 2 points 3 years ago
this doesn't mean much tho, considering people aren't ever born 'villains'. they all are created by something traumatic.
so sure, empathize all you want, but it doesn't help anyone. simply enables it.
IanSomnia 9 points 3 years ago
Empathy doesn't have to mean letting them do whatever they want. It's the only path to reforming them. I've worked with a young kid with no dad in the process of going down this pipeline. You have to challenge them on what they think they've learned about being a man, but if you don't try to understand how they feel they will just shut you out. Ultimately you can't make someone believe something. So you either give up and label them a lost cause, or you actually try to reach them and convince them person to person.
can 2 points 3 years ago
I mainly feel bad with the young men who are not yet captured but are down that path. I'd like to think it couldn't have happened to me but I had the luxery of going through that time of my life when that stuff wasn't really around.
Though actually I had 4chan at that time and I turned out mostly well adjusted so they're not completely blame-free.
zwekihoyy 5 points 3 years ago
people seem to think if you're not in support of them or their position, then you haven't experienced the same things and been on the same path. I saw where I was going and specifically changed it.
I'm still a depressed, alone, piece of shit, but I'm not a bigoted, fascist piece of shit.
ComradePorkRoll 1 point 3 years ago
I think it does help in that we can approach our ridicule of them from a constructive manner.
"Your role models are taking advantage of you."
"At least I don't fail to hide my insecurities behind toxic masculinity."
"You're alone because you choose to be alone."
Rozauhtuno 22 points 3 years ago
They also never grew out of high school mentality.
southernbeaver 4 points 3 years ago
What do you think they should have done differently? I am excusing their behaviour but I want to understand what should anyone with no positive male role model do other than turn to the internet?
Napain 15 points 3 years ago
well people can be both, victims of circumstance AND be accountable to their own agency that's life its complicated and ambiguous. I bet like 20% of people with male socialization and no good role models haven't become complete dicks
stillwater 4 points 3 years ago
It's not the fact that they're on the internet, it's the fact that being on the internet doesn't inherently make them good.
Of course a boy subconsciously looking for guidance will find these guys and feel inspired or compelled by them. But maturity is the concept of learning from experience and challenging your own understanding in order to be a more balanced and level-headed person tomorrow. You know, exactly what these guys try to stop.
So the only thing these kids can do is embrace growing up, becoming mature, and finding role model figures that champion that instead of ones that peddle the arrested development that these charlatans do.
_bug0ut 3 points 3 years ago
I find it crazy that I didn't really have any real male role models, but the media I turned to ended up being guys like Henry Rollins.
The "finding myself" period of my life pre-dated the existence of this manosphere/shallow-ass-masculinity shit, but the archetype has been around for far longer and there were plenty of slimy douchebags to look up to. Sometimes I wonder what spared me.
GreatGrapeApe 71 points 3 years ago
Don't forget has never assessed what they have to offer, nor do they make efforts to improve.
MindSkipperBro12 10 points 3 years ago
That’s what most people tend to forget, unfortunately.
GreatGrapeApe 8 points 3 years ago
One of the harder moments in my adult life was facing the fact that I had nothing to offer at that time which was why only creepy much older gay men were interested in me as I looked like I was 15 at 25.
slurpeesoforion 2 points 3 years ago
And if they do have something to offer it's "you only want me for my status and money."
Xel 48 points 3 years ago
My kitchen YouTube feed randomly showed me a "Rachel Zegler criticism" video and I was curious so I put it while cooking.
It was basically a 40 min rant where some YouTuber was showing her hypocrisy because she said Hollywood needs more representation from latinos even though she was acting on a movie as a puerto rican. The video could have been 2 minutes long but I noticed it was mostly the guy criticising every single word she's said and telling you how to feel about it.
I checked YouTube the next day and now it's full of alt right channels, for context I mostly watch veritasium, audit the Audit, science podcasts, dw documentaries, kurzgesagt and some music videos, I rarely watch political stuff on that account and yet now I see Ben Shapiro, Piers Morgan, Andrew Tate, Steven Crowder and the likes, literally my whole front page was just them and my automatic queue would be increasingly alt right shit.
I clicked on not interested and don't recommend this channel and yet I constantly see the videos showing up in the front page.
I think YouTube is heavily pushing this type of content, even if you try to show the algorithm that you are not interested. They probably see that it makes people get more engaged with the platform so they are okay with radicalizing everyone just for profit.
lowered_lifted 22 points 3 years ago
You got it. Alt right to Nazi pipeline = increased view time = increased ad revenue. Same with how Facebook ranked content that got people to give it an "angry" react 5x higher in the algorithm than a "like" at one point. Anger/hate drives engagement.
_bug0ut 7 points 3 years ago
I actually got this solely in YouTube shorts, but without having viewed anything related to it. Every few Shorts I scroll through, I'm met with something plucked straight out of the alpha/sigma/HKV trashbin and I'm assuming it's because I likely got demographic'd. It frankly kind of pushed me away from the whole feature - not much of value was lost since a lot of Shorts are just teaser trash that gives you a portion of a story designed to drive you to the channel.
Oddly, my regular, non-Shorts recommendations are fine.
foo 5 points 3 years ago
I think you tubes algorithm looks for things that are new to you and then loads you up on that. For example, I had an event that has caused my tinnitus to spike and I found a 10 hour video to listen to while I work that helps mask it. Now my entire fucking feed is overrun by different coloured noises and quack/chiropractors telling me to pull my ears to heal my tomorrow
gothicdecadence 5 points 3 years ago
If you delete the video you watched it should help
hinterlufer 4 points 3 years ago
You might want to try deleting that video from your watch history. Idk if it actually does anything to the recommendations but definitely something to try.
jigsaw250 3 points 3 years ago
Youtube will add things here and there to find you something new to binge on to stay on their platform. If you watch something a little, you'll be shown a couple similar videos. But if you watch a lot of that first video, you'll be bombarded with similar content like you were.
It's made me have to watch in incognito first, just so it doesn't screw up my Recommended.
GreatGrapeApe 4 points 3 years ago
What makes you think he is gay?
blindbunny 15 points 3 years ago
The way he invites smaller men over to look at him in his boxers and fawn over him. I'm bi so it's kinda hot not gonna lie.
GreatGrapeApe 9 points 3 years ago
That might be a weird form of narcissism though.
blindbunny 9 points 3 years ago
You know the two aren't mutually exclusive?
Severed_Fate -17 points 3 years ago path: 0 3525290 3525955 3527168 3532637, hotness: undefined, score: -17, children: 0
KingThrillgore 6 points 3 years ago
He did a video of him and some dude playing Chess in his undies.
I play both sides of the fence, I have seen some hot femboy on femboy action, and I swear right hand to God that Andrew Tate video is the gayest thing I've ever seen. It's gayer than 8 dudes blowing 9 dudes. I was ready to go back to women after seeing the THUMBNAIL of it. It's that bad.
Even now I'm having Akira flashbacks of this video and the damage it's done to me and god knows who else. Also, they can't play chess. Neither can I but he definitely can't.
And he's a repulsive human being.
GreatGrapeApe 2 points 3 years ago
Sad that he can't play chess given his father was a grandmaster
ComradeChairmanKGB 15 points 3 years ago
If the incels could read they'd be very upset
KingThrillgore 11 points 3 years ago
With role models like this, This guy is a small life crisis away from "can you spare a crumb of pussy" to "does this rag smell like ether"
_bug0ut 9 points 3 years ago
Sneako and his "I'm a little teapot" lookin ass with those goofy ass ears. Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with "rock bottom."
I get it - like I understand the mechanism behind why some younger dudes become infatuated with these figures. It's the same reason boomer housewives get into the Law of Attraction or why people who don't have a single fucking clue think Trump is going to fix everything if he could just get one more term in office... but I don't get it.
FIST_FILLET 4 points 3 years ago
Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with "rock bottom."
for real, have you seen the chin (or lack thereof) on tate? lmfao. might be hard to spot of course because he tries to hide it very desperately with his little prepubescent goblin beard
KingThrillgore 1 point 3 years ago
I think it's CO2 inhibiting brain functions like lead did back in the day.
DessertStorms 7 points 3 years ago
No, these people were always sexist, that's why it's so easy to hook them on this bullshit.
We are all socialised with misogyny (as well as cis-heteronormativity) literally from infancy (and those of us who are directly impacted sadly internalise them to a depressing degree), and that's when we need to start fighting against it, not only once the misogynists turn violent (verbally as well as physically), it's too late at that point (even if they can be deradicalized the damage they did is already done).
PrunesMakeYouPoop 15 points 3 years ago
That is not necessarily true. People can and do change. Darth Vader was not born evil, after all.
Track_Shovel 8 points 3 years ago
How insightful PrunesMakeYouPoop
stillwater 2 points 3 years ago
The person you're replying to is advocating for encouraging change.
beteljuice 7 points 3 years ago
What a bunch of freemales
sharkfucker420 6 points 3 years ago
God why is dmt lumped in with these idiots
dingleberry 5 points 3 years ago
Kermit the sexist philosopher.
ThrowawayInTheYear23 4 points 3 years ago
So what's wrong with the guy in the bottom left hand corner?
AdolfSchmitler 11 points 3 years ago
Apparently he's some crazy tik tok "pick up artist"
AdolfSchmitler 3 points 3 years ago
Uhh I think that's a YouTuber named Snecko ? He started off ok but has really went off the deep end.
ThrowawayInTheYear23 2 points 3 years ago
Ew
Sunroc 6 points 3 years ago
Work motivation content is a funnel into this kind of content. You watch a whole short form video about someone talking about work ethic with the hashtag #motivation and you will probably start getting Peterson and Tate clips
Cornelius_Wangenheim 12 points 3 years ago path: 0 3531141 3535321, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 1
bennieandthez 9 points 3 years ago
He just enables the other dumbos by giving them platform and not questioning them at all.
slurpeesoforion 6 points 3 years ago
Exactly. He's a gateway to fascist, incel culture. Little ditch weed, he doesn't provide enough kick to keep you satiated at that level, so you move on to harder stuff.
Severed_Fate -21 points 3 years ago path: 0 3532682, hotness: undefined, score: -21, children: 5
ilikekeyboards 14 points 3 years ago
Somebody ain't getting bitches lmao
GrammatonCleric 7 points 3 years ago
U mad, bro? Yeah, you mad 😂
Rachelhazideas 6 points 3 years ago
Imagine making sexism and homophobia your entire personality and world view, and then crying 'wahhhhh!' when everyone thinks you're a steaming hot pile of diarrhea.
sentient_loom -32 points 3 years ago
Yes, the hostile ridicule we offer them is far superior to the hostile brainwashing these goons offer them.
The answer? More hostile ridicule!
The only response to loneliness must be hostility!
TokyoMonsterTrucker 35 points 3 years ago
If you don't know that you're ridiculous, you might never not be ridiculous. You might never know that the premises of your beliefs are absurd nonsense.
So yes. More ridicule.
sentient_loom -22 points 3 years ago
That's so gross. You just have general bloodlust and you're looking for a vulnerable person to bully.
TheDarkKnight 25 points 3 years ago
Why does it always have to be on the rest of society to take the highest road, offer all of the grace of community to those who actively participate, encourage and promote the destruction of our society?
Ever notice that they immediately have to take the role of the victim and expect to be treated in a polite manner, then get mad when society doesn’t respond the way they want? Fucking exhausting.
mykneedoesnthurt 6 points 3 years ago
This is why we have Charlie on youtube to destroy these weenies
sentient_loom -22 points 3 years ago
I'm glad you admit that you will not take the high road, and that you have no empathy or compassion. You are a sociopath and you enjoy making vulnerable people suffer.
You would get along well with Tate.
sentient_loom -3 points 3 years ago
Andrew Tate is absolute trash. He's also not one of the lonely people he's targeting.
I'm not defending Tate or Peterson. I'm defending the lonely men who fall prey to his bullshit because everybody else just ridicules lonely people for being desperate enough to reach out to the only people offering anything to them at all.
GreenMario 3 points 3 years ago
They're all rich . They are not vulnerable.
sentient_loom 5 points 3 years ago
I'm not talking about the psychotic self-help grifters. I'm talking about the lonely young men they prey on. That's also who the meme is ridiculing.
stillwater 8 points 3 years ago
I don't believe ridicule should be the immediate response. However this comment and its tone is exactly the kind of thing you're bemoaning, but from other direction. The only difference is you're being preemptive about it and basically announcing it at nobody in particular instead of reacting to one person specifically.
sentient_loom 0 points 3 years ago
I'm not being preemptive. I'm responding to general ridicule of lonely people who are falling prey to grifters.
Your comment is honestly incoherent. Maybe you can refine it.
stillwater -1 points 3 years ago
It's definitely not incoherent but I did accidentally write at an 11th grade level according to readability checkers.
memes
@lemmy.ml
57253
14842
4243
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
go to feed...
memes
@lemmy.ml
57253
14842
4243
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
go to feed...
I think a lot for the guys that follow these morons and buy into this culture did not have positive male role models growing up, thus turn to media for some guidance.
This does not excuse their conduct or self-delusion, but does explain why it happens.
save