US Rep proposes bill to give video game buyers "ownership," not "a license"

a day ago by schnurrito to c/games

There are still significant hurdles ahead, both technical and legislative.
blitzen 106 points a day ago

It shouldn’t be narrowly focused on just video games. Should simply be anything digital.

path: 0 26370501, hotness: undefined, score: 106, children: 4
RightHandOfIkaros 31 points a day ago

Babysteps? Maybe if it is about video games, the old people won't know enough about it and pass it, which would make it easier to expand to any digital software.

path: 0 26370501 26371628, hotness: undefined, score: 31, children: 1
atrielienz 1 point 12 hours ago

Unlikely. We ended up here because of corporations lobbying the government to prevent bills like this from becoming laws and to allow them to set up the system the way they wanted it because it benefits them.

The old people are in their pockets and the most susceptible to their schemes to prevent changes in the status quo because it makes them money.

This is an attempt to sway people to vote for him in an election year.

path: 0 26370501 26371628 26381180, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
cybervseas 25 points a day ago

Scoped in a way to get press and hopefully positive attention before voting starts in a week or so.

path: 0 26370501 26370540, hotness: undefined, score: 25, children: 0
dusk 11 points a day ago

Agreed, but if passed it would set a significant precedent that would surely have to flow onto all/other digital media.

path: 0 26370501 26370913, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0
bitwolf 41 points a day ago

I'd like to see this effort include the responsible sunsetting of games.

If publishers no longer wish to host the game, and noinfer wish to collect money for it, they should relinquish the server code and let communities prop up games when the games services are decommissioned.

path: 0 26371050, hotness: undefined, score: 41, children: 7
steelplatedmech 19 points a day ago

Knockout City handled their closure wonderfully releasing a final version that would let players run their own servers. Removed some licensed cosmetics to make it possible.

The Crew 2 after backlash from Crew 1 released an offline mode.

Those two games are great examples of the bare minimum that leaves people happy without needing to support a game indefinitely.

path: 0 26371050 26371752, hotness: undefined, score: 19, children: 5
drcobaltjedi 5 points a day ago

Let it die (F2P) had to shut down its servers, and afterwards released a single player offline version you had to pay for.

It's certainly better than nothing and at least lets people continue to enjoy the game.

path: 0 26371050 26371752 26373274, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 4
SkunkWorkz 5 points 18 hours ago

Nintendo also did that with the Animal Crossing mobile game.

path: 0 26371050 26371752 26373274 26377738, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
steelplatedmech 3 points a day ago

There's f2p games like The Finals where if it shut down I'd be happy if I could still play against bots and roam around the map breaking stuff and shooting stuff in the practice room for aim training.

path: 0 26371050 26371752 26373274 26373327, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 2
bitwolf 3 points 14 hours ago

The Finals is my favorite game and I'd hope they spruce up private matches and leave it with a server to run.

I'd be very happy with that outcome. But do hope the game lives on for many more seasons.

path: 0 26371050 26371752 26373274 26373327 26379961, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1
grue 11 points a day ago

Server code should come with the game from day 1, like it used to back in the '90s.

path: 0 26371050 26373510, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0
ceenote 23 points a day ago

If only he wasn't one of the biggest AIPAC stooges in Washington.

path: 0 26371048, hotness: undefined, score: 23, children: 3
Godort 26 points a day ago

If a bad person supports a good cause, that doesn't make the cause bad.

path: 0 26371048 26371887, hotness: undefined, score: 26, children: 2
ceenote 16 points a day ago

I agree, it's more about pointing out that it doesn't make the bad person good, especially when they're pushing the bill at a time where it has no chance of passing.

path: 0 26371048 26371887 26374086, hotness: undefined, score: 16, children: 1
Cocodapuf 1 point 10 hours ago

I think all three statements in this chain are accurate and true. But it does leave me not really knowing how to feel about this.

I guess mostly disappointed, because the most salient point to me is the last one, that this is really unlikely to pass. So that's a genuine shame.

path: 0 26371048 26371887 26374086 26383236, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
FE80 14 points 12 hours ago

Ritchie Torres is an AIPAC funded piece of shit. Fuck this guy.

path: 0 26381277, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 0
zikzak025 11 points 16 hours ago

The tech industry lobbyists will crush this idea before it ever sees a sincere vote, but at least someone out there is trying. Though the cynic in me still can't help but feel that this is just an empty gesture in a bid for reelection.

path: 0 26378875, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0
FlashMobOfOne 9 points a day ago

I have no idea what this actually means, but...

Based?

path: 0 26374874, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor 8 points 17 hours ago

I never understood why games could not work as books. I mean, when you buy a book, you own that single group of pages containing the words that make the story of said work. But you don't own the work itself. Meaning that you own the unit containing it but, as you are not the owner of the work, you can't profit from selling copies of it.

With a game, it should be the same, when you buy a game, you own either the disc containing it, or (if digital) the unique keycode identifying your copy. You can sell your own copy because you own it, but it doesn't mean you own the work itself so you can't copy it nor claim it as yours.

We really solved it long time ago, yet, for some reason (greed) we can't use this method on games.

path: 0 26378268, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 3
mcv 12 points 17 hours ago

Consider ebooks. Amazon has revoked and deleted ebooks that people paid for. They've ironically done it to 1984. And I think even to people living in countries where 1984 is public domain.

It's not that they can't treat games like books, it's that they don't want to. And they don't want to treat books like books either; they just don't have any control over the physical object once it leaves their hands. And before everything became downloads, games used to come on a CD, cartridge or cassette, and you could sell that just like you could sell a book, and they were powerless to prevent it. But with everything being downloads and always online, they have that power, so they use it.

path: 0 26378268 26378432, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0
Cocodapuf 3 points 10 hours ago

It's not that games can't work as books, it's that books can't work like games.

Trust me, if book publishers could keep you from actually owning a physical book, from reselling it, from photocopying it, from lending it to a friend, they would. And with ebooks they do.

The fact that games are software gives publishers additional capabilities and control over the product, and they take advantage of that control to limit user control whenever possible. You just can't do that with a pile of paper bound together, otherwise they would.

This is where legislation can come in though. We need to make it legally clear that when you buy something you really own it. Renting, leasing, licensing, these ideas aren't bad on their own, but you can't call that "buying" and the venue offering these services shouldn't be called a "store". If it's called a store, it needs to be actually selling things, otherwise the entire business is disingenuous and deceptive.

path: 0 26378268 26383424, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
Limonene 1 point 10 hours ago

You do own the game, for most games sold on GoG. (Not the copyright assignment. The "game", or "copy of the game", however you want to refer to it.) If you buy a game as a disc, in a store, you own it until you take it home and find an EULA contract that takes away that ownership. I don't believe a clickwrap contract has any legitimate effect, but I don't think the courts would be on my side.

path: 0 26378268 26383677, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
caboose2006 7 points 10 hours ago

Protect this man!

path: 0 26383416, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0
Sam_Bass 6 points 12 hours ago

sad that it has to be legislated, but thats the world we live in now

path: 0 26381548, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0
The__Guy_Fawkes 5 points a day ago
path: 0 26372200, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 2
NikkiDimes 2 points 9 hours ago

With AI decompilation, I imagine cracked copies of GTA VI will be on PC within a week of releasing on PS5 lol

path: 0 26372200 26383963, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
The__Guy_Fawkes 0 points 9 hours ago
path: 0 26372200 26383963 26383980, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
Treczoks 3 points 18 hours ago

While it is a good idea, but it will result into a hell of a fight with the software industry in general. Their extortion schemes base on the very idea that you can't own software at all.

path: 0 26377614, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 3
Doomsider 4 points 18 hours ago

You are right, but also fuck them. They didn't invent the code or the concepts. They paid for other's works and pretend it is theirs. Software is an amalgamation of so much before it. Pretending you own it when it really is the work of tens of thousands of people is silly in a way.

path: 0 26377614 26377715, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 2 points 10 hours ago

dunno. the only people i've met who like Anything-as-a-Service don't exist. i've never met anyone who likes that shit.

path: 0 26377614 26383422, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
Treczoks 2 points 7 hours ago

Nobody in his right likes it. The software companies do, though, for a number of reasons. First, they can squeeze more money out of people on the long run. Second, if we actually owned the software we paid for, we had much better legal standing with regards to reverse engineering or altering it to fit a purpose - something the normal licensing terms strictly forbid.

path: 0 26377614 26383422 26385919, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
gothmog 2 points 20 hours ago

Good idea. Bad execution.

path: 0 26376790, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
QuadratureSurfer 1 point 12 hours ago

How would you fix it?

path: 0 26376790 26381187, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
ILikeBoobies 0 points 9 hours ago

Why this bill makes no sense

The game, which retailed for $69.99 for the standard edition and $99.99 for the All-Star Edition, will be delisted from digital storefronts on October 30 and will have its online servers shut down on December 31, only two years after its initial release.

Games with online functionality would also be required to provide an offline mode before the servers supporting them are shut down.

NBA games have an offline mode, so they are protected by this bill. Even if it was just a quick play "pick team vs team" that would be considered compliance.

path: 0 26384187, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
mossberg590 -3 points 12 hours ago

Our legislatures have more important things to do. There is a very simple solution. Don't buy those games that don't give a download/ physical disc. Otherwise the software companies will just figure away around the rules.

path: 0 26381448, hotness: undefined, score: -3, children: 0
nox -8 points a day ago

He's jumping on the bandwagon for votes this election. Won't do a thing with this after he gets in

path: 0 26372951, hotness: undefined, score: -8, children: 3
mnemonicmonkeys 25 points a day ago

Fuck off with this defeatist bullshit.

You don't make things better by not trying

path: 0 26372951 26373154, hotness: undefined, score: 25, children: 1
kryptonianCodeMonkey 9 points a day ago

Not to mention, even if he's a disingenious opportunist, he's still bringing awareness to an issue you care about. Use that. You don't owe him anything in return.

path: 0 26372951 26373154 26373732, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0
TrickDacy 0 points a day ago

Exactly what purpose does this comment serve? You hoping to get a suicide out of it?

path: 0 26372951 26374325, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
iuseasahibtw -10 points a day ago

This is stupid-

You never had ownership of the game, just the physical disc that contains it. First-sale doctrine is clear about this and the perpetual non-exclusive license that allows you to play it.

His law doesn't change that. It's not going to allow buyers of a game to have a stake in the IP rights.

This stupid argument of owning physical media has always been a misunderstood argument. Pirate, emulate, and decompile when game companies make enjoying a game miserable.

Trying to start legal fights, that have already been settled, or launching literal political campaigns, like stop killing games, isn't targeting the core issue of buying a game being easier than pirating it.

path: 0 26375156, hotness: undefined, score: -10, children: 4
Nibodhika 7 points 20 hours ago

First sale doctrine allows you to resell, rent, or giveaway things that you bought without having any claim over the IP. So for products where first sale doctrine applies you can buy it now, and then a few years down the line still use it or sell it to someone else. You can't do the same with digital games, and that's the issue at hand, that first sale doctrine is not being follow here, you can't resell digital games, rent or even give them away.

path: 0 26375156 26376730, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 3
iuseasahibtw -2 points 20 hours ago

Yes, you can.

GOG allows you to download the installers for use offline.

path: 0 26375156 26376730 26376794, hotness: undefined, score: -2, children: 2
Nibodhika 4 points 20 hours ago

That doesn't give you the right to resell, rent or even giveaway that. Which is what the first sale doctrine allows you to. Not to mention that GoG is one store, which proves it's not a law since others can do it differently.

path: 0 26375156 26376730 26376794 26376954, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
SkunkWorkz 4 points 18 hours ago

If you download the installers you are literally making a copy. Since you still have access to the files on the Gog server. Making copies for personal use is allowed but selling the copies is not because of copyright laws. There is no digital store that facilitates reselling where you can transfer the license of one game to someone else.

path: 0 26375156 26376730 26376794 26377811, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0
games
games

@lemmy.world

login for more options
51277
10087
7410

Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.

Rules

1. Submissions have to be related to games

Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.

This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.

2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil

No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.

We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.

3. No excessive self-promotion

Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.

This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.

4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts

This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you're submitting before posting to see if it's already been posted.

We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.

5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW

Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.

No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.

6. No linking to piracy

Don't share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.

We don't want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.

Authorized Regular Threads

Related communities

PM a mod to add your own

Video games

Generic

Help and suggestions

By platform
By type
By games
Language specific

go to feed...