I don't miss reddit, but this notification hit hard

3 years ago by DeriHunter to c/reddit

I had a feeling they'll put something like this, so I went in every now and then to see how infinity will react. I really loved the app, devs did an amazing job

WhoRoger 121 points 3 years ago

I find it extremely ironic that all the closed source apps, some with subscription options, are closing or moving to support open platforms, while the prime FOSS app is staying with Reddit and going subscription only.

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kratoz29 29 points 3 years ago

IKR... This doesn't feels right lol.

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Xaxetrov 24 points 3 years ago

Is is because the sole developer was actually a CS student, now looking for a first job (sick what he achieved at his age right ?) so he has no time to change the app to support Lemmy. However he said that should someone pick up the development, it should not be to hard to integrate the new feeds to it.

See 2nd link in the post.

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WhoRoger 15 points 3 years ago

Even more reason not to deal with a dickish corporation and be on the knife edge of possibly being tens of thousands in the red, if you're fresh out of school.

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FabulousCable3945 9 points 3 years ago

I think it is great for resume for applying jobs

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greenmarty 1 point 3 years ago

Owning money to reddit?

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kingcake 18 points 3 years ago

It is baffling but maybe he sees that there will be very few decent third party apps and an opportunity to monetize his work. I have seen discussion of scripts that compile infinity from source with a personal API key. So, the FOSS option still being maintained is a win I guess. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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WhoRoger 26 points 3 years ago

True, I just worry that the dev will get screwed by Reddit. If I were a dev or doing some business, I wouldn't touch Reddit with a very long stick. It's like poking a huge dung, you can only get a swarm of flies.

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Ketchup 15 points 3 years ago

They certainly will be screwed somehow, at some point. If they give this little warning. I doubt Reddit will disclose changes quick enough for there not to be an eventual case of a huge bill randomly, and many “oh shit” moments for the developer

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Koof_on_the_Roof 9 points 3 years ago

I suppose no one else will be able to monetise it because all revenue will go straight to Reddit

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Doll_Tow_Jet-ski 14 points 3 years ago

Yeah it's baffling. I haven't touched Reddit since the blackout but I still had my Infinity app installed, just out of nostalgia I guess. While the dev has every right to do businesses with whomever he wants, I expected differently from a FOSS project. Now to delete Infinity...

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x4740N 4 points 3 years ago

I'm going to delete infinity on July 1st

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Alkider 9 points 3 years ago

oof. the only reason I even used infinity was to browse reddit without an account. now there's less of a reason to use it past July.

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DePingus 8 points 3 years ago

Infinity is open source. https://github.com/...

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WhoRoger 23 points 3 years ago

That's what I meant? Infinity is FOSS and signing subscription with the devil.

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Blazingflames6073 8 points 3 years ago

This! I couldn't believe what I was reading when I saw this post.....

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NightOwl 6 points 3 years ago

Real odd. Those who use Foss maybe moving towards trying to cut themselves off from reddit, subscription models are ones that are going to mainly appeal to power users of reddit who don't intend to stop.

And I would guess those users would be more drawn to the official app than the third party app, since third party or api might be things they don't care about.

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abhibeckert 6 points 3 years ago

I don't think it's ironic at all - Infinity is and always has been a Reddit client. Subscription fees seems to be the only possible way for it to continue to be a Reddit client and if only a small number of people are willing to pay, then that's fine. It's an open source project and doesn't need to make enough money to pay a salary. It just needs to pay the API costs.

Infinity also doesn't need any of it's existing contributors to continue using it, they could all move on (perhaps start work on a Lemmy clinet?) and other people might keep developing Infinity. Open source projects change hands all the time.

If someone wants to make the app into a client for another platform, they can simply fork Infinity. It doesn't make any sense for Infinity itself to change into a totally different app. And it would be totally different, Lemmy has different features.

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WhoRoger 3 points 3 years ago

It just needs to pay the API costs.

As I wrote elsewhere, I just worry that the dev will get screwed somehow. While before they only needed to make an app and let it loose, now they'll need to constantly be on a lookout if their users API usage doesn't exceed what they're paying in subscription. Or if a thousand bots buy their app with stolen credit cards and Google holds their money. Or if someone hacks their app/server, figure out their API key and racks up a billion calls in spam.

They're turning a hobby dev project into a business, to be exchanging thousands of money between Google, themselves and Reddit, potentially being in the red for any number of reasons, and dealing with taxes and accounting on top of that.

I mean this is exactly what the Apollo dev said he doen't want to deal with (he just anticipated a much larger volume than Infinity, but the principle is the same).

Apparently the dev is just starting their first job and don't have time to port the app to Lemmy, how will they have time if there's some disaster caused by Reddit?

Maybe it will work out for them, but I'd be super careful doing any business with Reddit at this point.

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Zed 83 points 3 years ago

A number of devs talked about the pricing and the consensus seems to be that the fee applied to keep the apps afloat would need to be pretty high and they don't see how it can be sustainable.

I wonder how much Infinity is planning on asking and I doubt its user base will be so keen on paying that much.

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Neato 23 points 3 years ago

Yeah like $5 a month for more casual users. And people paying for apps tend to use them more. I think Apollo's calculations were like $10-12/mo for higher end users? Anything over $5/mo is probably a no-go so I wonder if it'll be viable.

And if Infinity's userbase makes $5/mo viable, I wonder if they'll get flocks of users from other apps and if that'll make it non-viable with high-traffic users.

Or maybe they'll go with a post-paid plan where you pay by usage? That seems iffy.

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jiji 55 points 3 years ago

Keep in mind too, that even with the paid API usage to the best of my knowledge the 3PA still will not have NSFW/porn content in the feed. How many people are going to be willing to spend $5-10/mo while also having reduced content?

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Landrin201 8 points 3 years ago

I certainly won't that's for sure. I'm a current infinity user.

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setsneedtofeed 24 points 3 years ago

Which is nuts. I was Apollo Ultra, and that was $10/year.

I honestly never looked into Reddit premium until all the API drama and was shocked it is $50/year, while only offering a fraction of what Apollo offered. Crazy pricing.

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WhoRoger 8 points 3 years ago

The other weird part is, I'm sure a lot of Lemmy users would be more than happy to donate much more to a good cause than an average Google Store app user who can ask for refund at any time and then leave 1 star.

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glibg10b 2 points 3 years ago

It would be cool if it gave the option to pay more per month as a donation. That would allow wealthy users to help lower the cost for less wealthy users

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bahcodad 1 point 3 years ago

It would but you also couldn't predict how many "wealthy" users would do that and I guess many wouldn't continue to do it so at best the base price would fluctuate but I imagine it'd go high fairly quickly.

A yearly subscription would be more stable I guess but that would put some users off the initial purchase and even if they do then they're less likely to spend more because they're seeing the lump sum

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Renacles 58 points 3 years ago

I was an Infinity user but I can't help but feel this is the wrong move. After all Reddit has done to them they just set up a way to siphon miney straight to them for the devs' hard work?

Why?

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averagedrunk 25 points 3 years ago

Infinity is open source. You can change the key and user agent (and one more field, but it escapes me at the moment), compile your own APK, and continue using it for free.

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Alkider 5 points 3 years ago

Will it work without the reddit API though? Maybe if there's a way to scrape the site but idk how everything else could be handled.

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FabulousCable3945 10 points 3 years ago

you need to get it for yourself, but you won't be able to see nsfw at july 1 :(

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possiblylinux127 4 points 3 years ago

They are trying to be compliant with the reddit tos

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averagedrunk 3 points 3 years ago

What do you mean "without the API"? The API still exists. If you don't want to subscribe to need to use your own API Key (sign up as a dev with Reddit), change the user agent, and change the redirect URL.

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possiblylinux127 3 points 3 years ago

The new version will not be.

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averagedrunk 5 points 3 years ago

Where did you see that? He said he's charging for it and would not tell anyone how to change things to get past reddit, but that there's a guide already out there that will walk people through the changes that need to be made.

I'd be interested in seeing where he said he's no longer providing source code updates.

Edit: Apparently the dev is a she, not a he. I shouldn't have assumed. I wanted to set the record straight.

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Setarkus 1 point 3 years ago

I think it was something about mentions of "infinity" in some parts. Though that might be part of the user agent as well.

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jcg 8 points 3 years ago

And isn't it a little unethical not to even mention nsfw?

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dx1 54 points 3 years ago

Social media as a business model rapidly becomes unethical

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TheRealLinga 12 points 3 years ago

cough more unethical

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ChillPill 32 points 3 years ago

I was really hoping to see an "Infinity for Lemmy" app. Oh well; Jerboa it is I guess.

Edit: spelling

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madwifi 29 points 3 years ago

I heard that Sync for Lemmy is going to be a thing.

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question2121 2 points 3 years ago

Yes! All my hopes are on that

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Klear 1 point 3 years ago

I could have sworn RiF for Lemmy (LiF?) was going to be a thing, but apparently they're working on tildes instead.

I'll take anything though. I couldn't even get Jerboa to run.

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Hafler 4 points 3 years ago

Liftoff is pretty good

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Schaedelbachthe2nd 2 points 3 years ago

I need to second this one! Tried some of the apps that came out in the past couple of weeks/days and Liftoff is the one I stuck with. The button at the top where you can switch to different instances with a single tap actually made me better understand the whole way Fediverse works. Now I switch between Beehaw, Lemmy world and some of the more obscure ones super simple (I am sure one could do this with other apps also but with Liftoff it just clicked for me).

My homescreen is still littered with a lot of the same stuff because a lot of instances have similar stuff on them but this is the first time I have something resembling control over the content I am reading in the Fediverse.

(still mourning the loss of RIF and it's simple and incredible easy to use interface. I truly hope RIF's dev makes an app for Lemmy!)

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normalmighty 4 points 3 years ago

I'm trying out Connect For Lemmy which came out a few days ago, seems nicer than Jerboa to me so far.

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DarkSpectrum 1 point 3 years ago

I tried Connect For Lemmy and it's still pretty early in it's dev cycle. I couldn't tell which post titles belonged to which images so it's layout is confusing.

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Slopz 3 points 3 years ago

https://wefwef.app/ is surprisingly good, by far the best Lemmy app I've tried so far.

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MashingBundle 1 point 3 years ago

It is open source, and shouldn't be hard at all for someone to fork into a Lemmy app, with Lemmy's Reddit Proxy API

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cyberic 29 points 3 years ago

Image Transcription: Text and Image

[Screenshot of the Infinity app for Reddit. A pop-up notification is on the bottom of the screen.]

Important Notice Regarding Reddit API Changes

Starting from July 1st, 2023, Reddit API will be pay-per-use for 3rd-party clients, which include Infinity for Reddit. The announcement from Reddit can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/...

In order to survive this change, Infinity will become a subscription-only app after July 1st. You can learn more about the changes in this post: https://www.reddit.com/...

It's required for you to update Infinity after July 1st so that you will get the new version with subscription options. None of the previous versions (including this one) will work after July 1st. But due to a tight timeline Reddit gave, the update may not be available immediately on July 1st since it requires proper testing. Thank you for your understanding!

I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too!

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sudo 14 points 3 years ago

Good human

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samus12345 1 point 3 years ago

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BornVolcano 1 point 3 years ago

There's a Lemmy ToR? ToL? I'm in. 30 transcriptions on reddit, time to carry on the legacy.

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cyberic 2 points 3 years ago

I created !TranscribersOfLemmy@discuss.tchncs.de but we got a lot of work to do.

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BornVolcano 1 point 3 years ago

How would one go about finding that? I'm very new to lemmy

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nieceandtows 29 points 3 years ago

Even if they setup a subscription model, the api is not going to give them access to any nsfw content. Who will pay for a subscription to not be able to see any nsfw stuff, while they can get it for free on the Reddit app?

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cardboard_violator 11 points 3 years ago

Especially when you will still be able to use RedReader for free since it has been spared, at least for the time being. So, probably only people who really like Infinity and don't want to switch to another app. Even with RedReader though you still won't have access to NSFW.

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Chestrade 28 points 3 years ago

The apps for lemmy have good potential once the bugs are resolved, but in terms of UI design, nothing beats Infinty imo

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bustrpoindextr 6 points 3 years ago

Idk have you used boost? It's incredible

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Jaluvshuskies 3 points 3 years ago

ye bro I went around trying a bunch, but ended up coming back to Boost after a full cycle. I can't pinpoint what it is, but it felt absolutely incredible (as are the other apps, but this one was extra incredible for me)

I guess it just had everything I wanted, the other ones might've had a few niche things that weren't ideal for me

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Slopz 2 points 3 years ago

Same here, tried a bunch of apps, but none of them came even close to Boost. I'm sad af that I'll have to stop using it in a couple of days and that there won't be Boost for Lemmy.

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Ketchup 4 points 3 years ago

That one downvote? Is that you Apollo lover (I am too but it wasn’t I)

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DeriHunter 3 points 3 years ago

I agree infinity's ui was the best

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Landrin201 1 point 3 years ago

Personally I thought Slide was better until it got discontinued after that infinity was best.

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victron 23 points 3 years ago

Wow, not even Sync dared to charge a subscription adjusted to the new API price. I wonder how much Infinity's going to charge.

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Zana 23 points 3 years ago

A subscription to what would now be a lesser product since you can't access NAFW content. The whole thing is sad. I deleted Sync the other day after using it for like 10 years.

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victron 7 points 3 years ago

Yeah, I feel bad for the developers that are trying to make it work, but I don't think it's gonna fly. Sync developer already moved to work on a Lemmy app.

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Zana 3 points 3 years ago

Yeah, I bought the $30 support Sync bundle a while ago, and I will buy another one to support him, especially if it supports Kbin.

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Voyajer 1 point 3 years ago

I've heard though a few others that sync supposedly will support Kbin but not on release. Hopefully someone can verify.

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iamsgod 3 points 3 years ago

what's the point of paying for the API then?

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M_Reimer 22 points 3 years ago

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RightHandOfIkaros 9 points 3 years ago

Stockholm Syndrome on full display

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Zerlyna 20 points 3 years ago

I’m sure Reddit has figured out how much to charge to ensure they get the money they would get for premium one way or another. They aren’t getting anything out of me.

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HexesofVexes 19 points 3 years ago

That would be the client I used - it's a shame they're being pushed to this.

Once that app goes subscription, I'll run a purge on my account and drop in a GDPR request invoking my right to be deleted.

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ralC 2 points 3 years ago

If by purge you mean power delete suite, it (and others like it) won't work after the 1st.

Also I don't know how true it is, but apparently it costs them a handful of money to comply to GDPR requests for data recovery. So maybe do that and then delete.

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jarfil 4 points 3 years ago

If I understand it correctly, Power Delete Suite should work just fine, since it's using the logged in user's API access. It will just get hit by the "free tier" rate limiting, but that only should mean it will take longer to do it's thing.

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loudWaterEnjoyer 18 points 3 years ago

There goes the client I used. I deleted my reddit accounts already anyway.

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0Xero0 16 points 3 years ago

I love Infinity but I deleted the app the instant I read that, I was gonna wait until July 1st to see if something changes, but damn

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average650 14 points 3 years ago

Did you see that the dev is looking for entry level jobs/internships?

That's crazy

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IndomitableAlbus 14 points 3 years ago

Sync I paid for cus it was just so slick, Infinity not so much. I certainly won't pay.

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lemann 1 point 3 years ago

I was considering donating to the dev by purchasing Infinity+ but there's absolutely no chance I'll be doing that now

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sv1sjp 14 points 3 years ago

Why so many of you in the comments are complaining that he "is trying to make business with Reddit"? It is his own app, he is finishing his studies and he have achieved so many things, he has the right to do whaterver he wants with his application. Also, you can just download the Infinity's source code and build your own version of Infinity with your own API key. It will work without any problem after 1 July. So where is the problem there?

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JelloBrains 11 points 3 years ago

I don't think it's going to work out for them in the long run, most users aren't going to want to pay the cost to keep it running and then they risk the possibility of crack groups cracking it and then they are on the hook for API usage they aren't getting paid for. I appreciate they want to try and keep it going, I use that app, but I don't see the potential costs as sustainable.

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abff08f4813c 7 points 3 years ago

What I’m seeing from some of those groups is that they at going to mod the app to let the user give their own api key.

For apps shutting down it gets even more extreme. Apparently the backend server code for Apollo is going open source. So some folks will use a modded Apollo app and run their own backend.

All just to use reddit for a single user 🤷🏽‍♀️

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AlataOrange 4 points 3 years ago

Didn't Reddit TOS explicitly not allow that, and even if they did still gates NSFW content?

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abff08f4813c 2 points 3 years ago

Ah, well, this is coming from the cracking and piracy subs. I mean we're talking about the folks who keep modifying Alien Blue so it'll continue to work with modern Reddit on a modern smartphone.

Not sure what they have planned for dealing with NSFW.

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DeriHunter 6 points 3 years ago

I don't understand why people will be willing to pay for content they fit for free for 20 years. The betrayal feeling is real abs with all the lemmy migration meaning less content and no NSFW? I would rather burn my money before paying for this shit

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danc4498 9 points 3 years ago

What are they going to charge?

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RightHandOfIkaros 31 points 3 years ago

Any number higher than FREE.99 is too high just to access Reddit.

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danc4498 10 points 3 years ago

Definitely. I'm just curious what amount makes it worthwhile to keep the app alive

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DeriHunter 2 points 3 years ago

Couldn't agree more!

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magiccupcake 31 points 3 years ago

A least $15 a month.

Non power users probably wont pay, and any lower and they'll definitely lose money.

I don't see how paying more than Netflix will do anything other than kill that app.

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Kichae 5 points 3 years ago

I guess if the app's dead either way, they don't see any harm in giving it a try.

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LoafyLemon 11 points 3 years ago

It's just giving money away to Reddit.

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Scott 8 points 3 years ago

That’s the real issue. I would have gladly paid Apollo $5-$10 a month considering how much I used the app and loved it but the fact that so much of it doesn’t go to the developer because Reddit wants to charge 27x more for 3rd party users is ridiculous.

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Koof_on_the_Roof 4 points 3 years ago

I thought all the power users were banned or not bothered powering anymore?

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Yasuke 2 points 3 years ago

It’s going to be a slow glorious death

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NightOwl 1 point 3 years ago

Yeah, this is for people really addicted to reddit who don't plan to stop, but for some reason have an issue with using the official app despite plans to continue contributing to the platform. It's kind of conflicting stuff. So now they are willing to pay monthly subscriptions just to use a third party app because they love reddit that much but hate the idea of using the reddit app?

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kamenlady 7 points 3 years ago

I only read from the Apollo guy, that the amount of requests the users of his app make, would get him to pay reddit 20 million a year. So, the more popular your 3rd party app is, the more they would have to pay Reddit.

The one i use, Sync for Reddit, is also dying before the 1st of July arrives. From there on, the new prices apply.

Reddits motivation for this, is to get paid for API access by companies like ChatGPT. They suck reddits content, our posts, in order to feed the AI with content. I assume they do it big style and Reddit wants to cash in for this.

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x4740N 3 points 3 years ago

Reddits motivation for this, is to get paid for API access by companies like ChatGPT. They suck reddits content, our posts, in order to feed the AI with content. I assume they do it big style and Reddit wants to cash in for this.

That's not their only motivation otherwise they'd be charging only the companies like chatgpt for access

They're charging one of the third party apps $20 million for api access

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Voyajer 1 point 3 years ago

Reddit will just get scraped then.

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Vlyn 1 point 3 years ago

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bAZtARd 5 points 3 years ago

What happened to supporting user's API keys?

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treasure 13 points 3 years ago

Reddit doesn't allow that unfortunately. The Infinity dev published all of the code, so you can compile the app with your own API key (although that is against Reddit ToS as well, but who cares).

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abff08f4813c 8 points 3 years ago

The Apollo dev asked but reddit insisted that this is not allowed. So no app developer who publishes on an App Store can provide this.

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guigs44 3 points 3 years ago

Iirc it’s no longer allowed per Reddit’s new policies

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acec 4 points 3 years ago

I still don't understand why the developer does not consider the option of adding a custom API key

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kratoz29 1 point 3 years ago

What does this means?

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LuckyFeathers 4 points 3 years ago

It means the user adds their own API key instead of using one for all the users of the app. Basically the users pay based on how much they use.

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sigh 9 points 3 years ago

Reddit told the Apollo dev this wasn't allowed

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Interesting_Test_814 5 points 3 years ago

I wonder how they're justifying this one with their "we just want LLMs to pay for our data, third-party apps are just a side effect" rhetoric.

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Thurkeau 4 points 3 years ago

Although I am a bit annoyed at this whole stink related to the Reddit API, I am also wondering if the website itself will also break on July 1. I'm guessing for now that it will keep working, but I guess if it stops, I'll have to send a dirty letter to them to delete my account.

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Eigengrau 3 points 3 years ago

I hope someone forks this app with kbin support . Unless they fully close source it that is ...

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innkeeper 3 points 3 years ago

It was sad to see this. I loved Infinity and I'm afraid this will ruin this app and all the hard work devs put into it.

path: 0 510362, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

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That's it.

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Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.

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