Everyone just loves untested forced updates. /s
nyctre 103 points 3 years ago
Because it's nowhere near the same. Is it a bad release? Yes. Is it overwatch2 bad? No, not even close.
For the example: even tho it's true that CSGO used to be a paid game, it had been free for 5 years and before that it was 15$, not 40 or however much was ow.
Cs2 comes with a whole new engine which changes a bunch of things, unlike ow2 which is just an upgraded version of the same stuff; same errors, same stuff, basically.
OW2 also made everything in the game more expensive to buy. Etc.
dingus 27 points 3 years ago
For the example: even tho it’s true that CSGO used to be a paid game, it had been free for 5 years and before that it was 15$, not 40 or however much was ow.
I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter what the price point was. People paid for these games. The game going "free" isn't a valid justification for being like "its okay this product you paid for is being taken from you."
Would you feel the same about any other product in your life? Why is it justified when that something you paid for being taken from you is "a game."
Cs2 comes with a whole new engine which changes a bunch of things
Yeah, a lot less content than CS:GO and no new content. Seems like they could have let it bake longer before release.
KoboldCoterie 12 points 3 years ago
So at what point (in your opinion) does it become okay to discontinue a paid game? Are they supposed to still be running servers for games from 1997, so the 2 people who still remember it can occasionally log into the dead matchmaking service for nostalgia? Obviously this is a ridiculous example, but if your answer isn't "Yes, they should", then that means there's a point somewhere between that and now when it's okay to shut down the service, so where is that line?
dingus 26 points 3 years ago
They could have just left it in people's libraries with the option of people using community servers, something that a lot of gaming companies have traditionally done. They give the server software to the players, who then spin up community servers and keep the game going. There was literally nothing stopping them from just leaving a game that no longer functions in the Steam library.
You can still buy Titanfall on Steam and have it in your library and last I checked, multiplayer for that game hasn't worked in years. EA isn't pulling it from people's libraries because of that.
Maven 10 points 3 years ago
Companies don't need to run servers for old games nobody plays but it is a crime against art and the people who worked on and enjoyed any of that material. All of the wonderful content made specifically for these games is just dead now while the company could've just released a way to self host the game. There is NO reason any game ever should die and any excuse otherwise is just feeding into the pockets of companies that want to kill history.
nyctre -1 points 3 years ago
How is the game becoming f2p equivalent to it being taken away from you?
Do you feel the same every 2 years when the new wow expansion releases and the previous one becomes free?
Do you feel the same whenever a product you bought for full price goes on sale?
skulblaka 17 points 3 years ago
How is the game becoming f2p equivalent to it being taken away from you?
Oh, it's not. The game being removed from my library is equivalent to it being taken away from me.
dingus 14 points 3 years ago
It's literally not the same product.
Going Free to Play is fine. Going Free to Play and then outright removing it from the library of someone who paid for it is not, in my opinion.
CluelessLemmyng -1 points 3 years ago
So games should never go free or even discounted because someone else paid full price ten years ago? That's just stupid. Let alone, CS2 is essentially a new game that's being released for free. Your only valid complaint is the content, maybe. Maybe they plan on releasing content and had focused more on quality during development.
dingus 12 points 3 years ago
So games should never go free or even discounted because someone else paid full price ten years ago?
That's an intentional misreading of what I'm saying. The issue isn't that it went Free to Play. The issue is that before that, a number of people paid for the product and then later that product that they paid for was removed from their library entirely.
Being replaced with a game that's Free to Play from the get-go isn't the same thing. It's simply not the product that was paid for.
Would you feel similarly about a physical product that a company took away from you because they were changing it? Not because the product caused any danger, but because they were giving you a newer one, with fewer features, but looked nicer? You wouldn't feel like losing access to things you paid for in the original was a problem? Why is it justified to take away something that was paid for when it's a game?
bentropy -3 points 3 years ago
Im feeling the same for every product the broke at one point in my life, for every food I have digested and for all the DVDs I bought in the early 2000s... things change and to have played $15 10 years ago for a game that is now f2p is nothing to cry about. Especially because you can still play it.
saigot 23 points 3 years ago
Is it a bad release?
Uh is it? It literally has the 2nd highest concurrent players of any game on steam ever. it made what, 40mil in a few hours. Sure some old players are a little mad, but that is literally unavoidable, and I don't think they are dropping the game, just complaining.
nyctre 11 points 3 years ago
There's a difference between bad and unsuccessful. It's still a good game because despite all the people complaining about all the lost shit, most of it wasn't being used that much anyway. Plus, unlike OW2, cs2 will get back all the stuff lost back and then some. So yeah, it's gonna be fine.
StarkillerX42 -2 points 3 years ago
By your own argument, CS2 is worse than Overwatch. CS2 removed over half of the maps, features, and the gameplay is way worse. Overwatch gameplay was pretty similar, although switching to 5v5 has its problems. It ran the same on the same hardware. The biggest change was the economy which doesn't affect gameplay. I feel like I completely lost access to CS, but I played OW2 for months until the gameplay problems with the meta became more apparent.
FunkFactory -4 points 3 years ago
Funny I consider OW2 a better upgrade than CS2. But maybe because OW1 had a worse starting point. The game needed a total rebalancing and that was what OW2 was about. Yes it's not something they needed a "new" game for but it still made the game 10x more fun for me. CS2 doesn't seem like it's provided any rebalancing at all, feels basically just like a visual update (which OW2 also had). As a super casual player that only played a couple hundred hours years ago, I can't really tell the difference with the new engine (besides smoke mechanics) so the changes feel way less dramatic. But I'm definitely having fun revisiting CS. Also I can see why people would be more mad about OW2 monetization because CSGO has always farmed people for money whereas OW1 gave a ton of free skins. Now they kinda feel like they're at the same level 🫤
venji10 3 points 3 years ago
OW1 was better in every single aspect. A lot of new interactions make no sense, there are way too many animations now with the new heroes and the matchmaking and ranked system is broken. That is on top of the completely asshole move to F2P with the deletion of the objectively better paid predecessor for players who paid for it..
dingus 1 point 3 years ago
Sure, but a fragmented player base impacts Valve's bottom line more than anything else, so I don't understand why this is an argument.
Oh no! A few thousand players will stay on the old game while the new one will still absolutely dominate the charts because people like new and novel.
Genuinely, who would that deeply affect outside of Valve trying to make sure the player base is all on the current game to make the most money? Why are we defending business practices that are clearly aimed at making the most profit at the expense of customer service?
Weren't we all supposed to be Valve fans because we expect better of them?
dm_me_your_feet 3 points 3 years ago
Its not true. A fragmented playerbase hurts everyone. I was there in the Source vs CS 1.6 days. Source and 1.6 were basically completely seperate communities, which were only really unified when CS:GO came out.
Imagine getting the new CS only to find out all your friends refuse to move to the new game, so you have to go there too if you want to play with them and learn everything anew just when you learned the ropes in the new game. A terrible new user experience, which hampers growth, which leads to a dying game.
Updating a hugely successful game is always difficult. Should you cater to the "old guard"? Absolutely. But when they are a contentious bunch who hate change, you just have to force them, or they will paint themselves into a corner, completely isolating themselves from new players. They would probably see this as a win too: no annoying "n00bs".
This would be exactly the situation that developed between 1.6 and Source.
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rotopenguin 166 points 3 years ago
It's a shame that Valve couldn't get Steam to issue them a new AppID, so they had to delete CSGO in order to put CS2 on the store. It was the only way.
thantik 41 points 3 years ago
The reason they did this is because they had a huge hassle getting everyone to move over back when they moved CS to the source engine. They didn't want that hassle again, so CS2 is even installed in the CS:GO folder. This is the first time they've ever pulled anything like this, but the reasoning is because they didn't want to create ANOTHER esport division, they just wanted CS2 to replace CS:GO for esports.
EnderofGames 3 points 3 years ago
Not a shame dividing it another time, but you also can. It's still a beta option.
peterpan520 9 points 3 years ago
That was not the reason. The reason are the skins. I only own a few skins (and old cases) and they a worth over 500 €. There are a lot of players with an inventory worth thousands. So, what now, after you release a new iteration? Clone every player's Inventar? Forcefully transfer every Skin from CSGO to CS2? Or delete the old iteration. Valve did the last, same with Dota Reborn a few years ago.
We should condemn Valve for protecting their stupid gambling mechanism...
TWeaK 8 points 3 years ago
The reason they did this is because they had a huge hassle getting everyone to move over back when they moved CS to the source engine.
You missed a generation there. CS 1.6 -> CS:Source -> CS:GO.
This isn't in response to people not moving over to the Source engine, there wasn't much issue with that - although 1.6 still lingered on for a long time and people did complain, many people were excited by the Source engine and all the new physics it introduced, so people did buy Half Life 2 (with CS:S) even if they preferred to play CS 1.6. However with CS:GO it was different, there were no significant new features except the hat-ification and skins along the lines of Team Fortress 2, also CS:GO was just a standalone game rather than bundled. So many people did not move to CS:GO.
EnderofGames 3 points 3 years ago
there were no significant new features except the hat-ification and skins along the lines of Team Fortress 2
Skins and cases were not in release CSGO. The release and beta features of CSGO were supposed to be controller support and cross-platform play with consoles.
loudWaterEnjoyer 1 point 3 years ago
Whats with condition zero?
Zanz 6 points 3 years ago
They did this with 1.6 and the source Mac update previously. They've just completely changed the game and the feature set before it's nothing new. This time they just change the name of the game with it, instead of claiming a balance patch.
interdimensionalmeme 4 points 3 years ago
Ah, yes, the asshle known as consumer choice. Can't have that. Good guy Valve.
dpkonofa 6 points 3 years ago
It has nothing to do with consumer choice. It has to do with maintaining the servers and infrastructure to run these games. Patching and updating one game is way easier than doing it for multiple games. It’s the same thing that they did when CS went from a mod to a standalone game on Steam. Everyone was on the same version and, despite some people begrudgingly getting dragged along, was really what turned CS into the behemoth it was.
TWeaK 0 points 3 years ago
It’s the same thing that they did when CS went from a mod to a standalone game on Steam.
No it isn't. Valve did not make CS 1.6, CS 1.6 was a user-created mod. Valve did then hire the mod makers to help make the Source engine (just like DICE hired the Desert Combat modders to make Battlefield 2), but Valve had no involvement with CS in its inception, nor its maintenance pre-Source. Hell, both CS 1.6 and CS:Source primarily ran on user servers, so there wasn't even any significant upkeep costs.
CS 1.6 pre-dates Steam. CS:S was Valve, but both games did not have any servers or infrastructure to manage, beyond a simple exchange server that catalogued everyone's game servers (also VAC, if the server host enabled it). It's CS:GO that started having a big back end. Your point is valid, but only for CS:GO.
It's kind of surprising how so many people in here have the history muddled.
interdimensionalmeme -2 points 3 years ago
It's about forcing everyone to switch
You can still play CS 1.6, you don't even need clouds for that one. You can play CS source. In this case they wanted to carry the momentum live the good little service game that they are. Technical reasons are superficial smokescreens.
They know every time they made a release some people didn't want to switch and stayed behind.
dingus 2 points 3 years ago
but the reasoning is because they didn’t want to create ANOTHER esport division, they just wanted CS2 to replace CS:GO for esports.
So Valve is fully on the "fuck the consumers, our esports money is more important" bandwagon, huh? I paid for CS:GO years ago, and this feels like some kind of bait and switch.
Like, who does having CS:GO and CS2 around at the same time hurt except Valve? Literally nobody. Nobody is hurt by having both games available.
They could have killed the official servers and still made it that CS:GO had to use community servers. Like, how would have that split the community when official servers would no longer exist?
Every reason people come up with comes down to: Valve is more interested in profit than honoring the fact that the game was on sale for six fucking years and free to play for five. It was a sold product for longer than it was a free product, but I guess everyone who bought a copy for six years running can go fuck themselves, according to Valve.
This is a joke, and the "reason" Valve had for it is a shitty anti-consumer reason. There is literally not a single reason they did this that was to benefit the people playing the game. Everything was about money and their esports division.
If you're not upset about this, you're a corporate bootlicking fucking idiot.
HATEFISH 3 points 3 years ago
I don't see it as very anti-consumer that every skin and statrak item has been brought along to the new game. I agree it would be nice to be able to play the old one, but I'd rather the option to torrent old clients and host my own dedicated server on the old one than be forced to upgrade to the new one. They don't host it anymore, pirate away Who cares?
This release has sucked ass, CS:sources release sucked ass, Condition Zero as a whole sucked ass, and ask anyone old enough, the move to 1.6 from 1.5 sucked ass.
I still expect it to end up a good game, just like 1.6 and source eventually was.
Moonrise2473 14 points 3 years ago
What? Oh no why deleting the old game
I bought CSGO in 2015 and never had the chance to actually install it, do I get some extra content in cs2 or everything is lost?
dingus 4 points 3 years ago
And why is that anyones problem but Valve's?
Who else is hurt by having it split?
It doesn't hurt the players to have it split, so it feels like you are defending anti-consumer business practices just because its Valve.
EnderofGames 3 points 3 years ago
Players are hurt from having it split. Way more so than Valve. In fact, I fail to see why Valve would be gaining anything, they aren't selling the missing parts.
When a game updates, do you keep matchmaking servers up for every old edition of the game? Place people in a different queue for every hotfix version they are on? When the game is updated often over a lifespan of 12 years? Then no one would be in any matchmaking, let alone enough people of your skill level.
If they marketed this as "CSGO: Source 2 engine update" people wouldn't be whining, so I don't understand why people go out of their way to make a big deal about this. We knew not all the content would be available at release when they completely rewrote and modernized the game's code.
And no anti-consumer business practices involved. You CAN play csgo still, if you want to. Sure, it's inconvenient to download an old version of the game to run, but it is also inconvenient to download an old version of any game to run in every case. Anyone saying CSGO is unplayable and "that's unfair because I paid for it" is maliciously spreading misinformation.
Redderthanmisty 10 points 3 years ago
If you bought CSGO, you automatically got access to prime mode when the game went free to play.
It's a separate matchmaking pool that puts you in servers filled with only other people who also bought the game, substantially reducing the likelihood of encountering cheaters and bots who just make endless free accounts.
This also carries over into CS2 as far as I'm aware.
theonyltruemupf 2 points 3 years ago
Lol
HATEFISH 13 points 3 years ago
they were never going to be able to release a totally new game without a lot of backlash from the addict skin trading communities. They wouldn't want to risk their free income from the whales by splitting the player base and eventually shunning the skin investors stuck on the old game.
ChronosWing 10 points 3 years ago
Because it was just an engine swap, not a new game.
ryannathans 2 points 3 years ago
Think of the skins
sevenapples 1 point 3 years ago
What's that, a cloud gaming service?
erev 1 point 3 years ago
It's pretty borked on Linux for some people, especially if you have a lower end computer. I understand there are major updates that will take more power, but it's difficult to get consistency from the game whatsoever. I'm guessing the Vulkan renderer for the Source 2 engine needs to be better optimized.
imPastaSyndrome 23 points 3 years ago
Tbf they're KEEPING ALL cosmetics unlike fucking overwatch
schnokobaer 21 points 3 years ago
CSGO is still in CS2's beta channel on Steam as csgo_demo_viewer or something like that, but obviously limited to community servers/offline play, no official dedicated servers.
newproph 2 points 3 years ago
May have something to do with keeping the appid the same. My guess is this was done because of how skins work on the backend. I don't know for sure though. They should have done more testing on Linux however. It will be interesting to see what they do going forward.
EnderofGames 2 points 3 years ago
It IS playable on Linux. It ISN'T playable on computers over ~10 years old.
erev 15 points 3 years ago
I could manage 40-80 frames on CS:GO on my lil thinkpad. Trying CS2, I'm getting 10-30 frames. That'd be fine if it stayed closer to the top end of the spectrum, but it stutters so much that I can hardly play whatsoever. That combined with the millions of small changes they made that I have to get used to makes it a really unfun experience. Which is sad because CS:GO is one of my comfort games
EnderofGames 2 points 3 years ago
1: play CS:S or 1.6, they'll run better than CSGO on hardware that ancient anyways.
2: You can play CSGO, in the beta options, and find a Gun Game server online (browser is broken from this update, so you'll have to search online to get address). "Arms Race" was valve's new name for gungame for some reason.
2.5: combine 1 and 2. It'll be easier finding servers in CS:S right now, anyways.
2.75?: The compatibility of making CSGO available for a wide range of devices kept it from progressing, the Source 2 change is for people who have a desktop from maybe ten years ago. My low end surface from nine years ago gets similar frames as your Thinkpad, and I don't try to play games with it much anymore... but if you want to play new games, especially on the go, you gotta be expected to upgrade at some point.
erev 0 points 3 years ago
This ThinkPad is 3 years old with an AMD Zen 3 chip. It's not fantastic but i should be able to muster better frames. I'm overclocking my laptop just to hit 30 frames with consistency
teichflamme 6 points 3 years ago
Content is missing and it plays rather differently
Zanz 1 point 3 years ago
There are equivalent to 33 global tiks by default. They're supposed to be more asynchronous so that might help but that just sounds like trying to hide how much load your server actually should have. They're also not dedicated when coming from valve they're using dynamic cloud hosting. That gets thrown around as dedicated for console games but that is not what I dedicated server is.
I don't know if valve calling their cloud hosting dedicated, I haven't been following since the beta. I have seen stories where sites are reporting valves dedicated servers but they don't offer dedicated servers.
RoyaltyInTraining 1 point 3 years ago path: 0 3945998 3951685, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
BuboScandiacus 18 points 3 years ago
I'm out of the loop, can somebody explain ?
Donkter 40 points 3 years ago
The long awaited game Counter Strike 2 launched as an update to the old game Counter Strike: GO. Effectively deleting CS:GO from existence. Except that CS2 doesn't work on every computer CS:GO used to work on. Meaning (at least for now) lots of people have lost access to their favorite game.
BuboScandiacus 7 points 3 years ago
At least they can't do that to TF2
BuboScandiacus 33 points 3 years ago
Because that would result in TF3
3 in the name of a Valve game
BlinkerFluid 18 points 3 years ago
Why do I feel like giving this a month will make all of this irrelevant?
but this is a crime against God, humanity, gaming and anime!!!!
I get it, your favorite game doesn't work because of a new release. It happens. Take a ticket and sit down for a while. Valve isn't omniscient about every Linux build in existence or possible glitch on the first week of release.
Hell, TF2 has been broken on arch for almost a month without bypassing a .dll file.
Chariotwheel 7 points 3 years ago
I remember when games launched and generally could be expected to run, because easy patching wasn't a thing yet. They had to make sure that the games worked.
I don't like that this has moved to "well, it's just the first day, week, month, give them time to fix the game." No! When the game releases and people pay money for it, it should work!
Sharkwellington 0 points 3 years ago
We are talking about Counter Strike. Nothing has fundamentally changed in 2 decades.
EnderofGames 2 points 3 years ago
We are talking about Counter Strike 2, a complete rewrite of the game's code for a new game engine. EVERYTHING has fundamentally changed over the last year.
pineapplelover 1 point 3 years ago
And I can't play faceit because that requires their stupid anticheat 😭
pineapplelover 1 point 3 years ago
Faceit is more competitive. It's harder to get faceit lvl 10 than global. Also, last time I tried csgo, it wouldn't let me do official server matchmaking because apparently it wasn't supported on Linux yet. However, that was during beta so maybe it's changed.
ghostdoggtv 11 points 3 years ago
Arms race is gone. Back to TF2 I guess?
Kyoyeou 10 points 3 years ago
Few month ago in CSGO I played a casual game for flying scout. Went in, and I got instantly kicked by the 5 players of the team. Turn out I felt into a farming bot lobby and all 10 players where farming bots
EnderofGames 1 point 3 years ago
Yeah, that happens with certain groups of people. Definitely not a CS2 issue, best you can do is go and play a different map.
MystikIncarnate 9 points 3 years ago
I didn't realize that they replaced cs:go with cs2 until I was home and noticed an update to install cs2.... if it was an independent launch, that would not happen.
The only CS game I've played somewhat recently is cs:go, so I put two and two together (ha, pun), and groaned.
I thought valve was better than this.
EnderofGames 2 points 3 years ago
If you want to downgrade your game to an old version, you can. In the betas menu.
MystikIncarnate 1 point 3 years ago
It's going to turn into the whole CS 1.6 thing all over again
shiroininja 5 points 3 years ago
I had an amazing time playing CS2 Saturday night. The only performance issues I had was in the Ancient map, when I'm near the water my fps tanks to 50fps from like 90 fps on high.
Hailstorm8440 2 points 3 years ago
They fixed most of it with a recent patch I think
TheCheddarCheese 2 points 3 years ago
its fine for me so far, but sometimes i get those moments where it lags for like 20 seconds straight and then it stops. i still dont know why its happening.
ritchie 1 point 3 years ago
I joined lemmy.one when people started moving from reddit to lemmy. In the early days there was not much choice, either this one or the woke beehaw and some other "just started" instances with one or two people. (and lemmingrad ofc) I have recently switched to another one.
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Funny, on release day, I got downvoted for pointing out they pulled a Blizzard/Overwatch 2.
Half-baked release with missing content and no new content? Check.
Release removes previous release, a game that was at one time a paid game? Check.
I feel like Valve gets way too much of a pass here on this for just being Valve.
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