What few constitutional rights the homeless enjoy may soon be on the line at the high court.
Will the Supreme Court Make Life Worse for America’s Homeless?
3 years ago by gAlienLifeform to c/news
Angry_Maple 7 points 3 years ago
Those people, and also the people who are obsessed with having someone to look down on.
I've never understood that mindset, because it doesn't actually make them better, it just means that they're aholes.
Candelestine 10 points 3 years ago
Last detail: Proper funding for extra policing, to handle the natural difficulties in transitioning a whole bunch of people to a more structured lifestyle all at once, in the same small geographical area.
Otherwise we'll run into the same problems we did last time we tried block housing, leading to "the projects". I mean, think about it. That's a fantastic market for a drug dealer or a gang otherwise, that many vulnerable people all in one place.
Can_you_change_your_username 36 points 3 years ago
Extra policing was part of the problem that led to the gangs. Extra policing targeted at an outgroup means every issue big or small is met with violence and imprisonment. The paternalistic overuse of the criminal justice system leads to the people losing trust in police and in the system. They still need someone to provide community structure, to settle disputes, and to offer some degree of protection and gangs are the homegrown solution to fulfilling that need. Extra social workers and community organizers that are from that community would do a lot better than extra police.
Candelestine 1 point 3 years ago
People don't invite gangs to fill a need. Nor do they have the power to resist gangs when they want to take over. They fill a power vacuum. So, rather than eliminate the need for power to exist, you can also just prevent the vacuum. It's much more feasible.
But either approach. So long as gangs and drugs are successfully kept away, that is the important part. At least keep the dealers out of the buildings when they try to worm their way in.
PugJesus 8 points 3 years ago
I love how the original idea for police was "Wow, we should really have some form of enforcing the law that isn't dependent on local prejudices or just government men trained only to shoot people", and now it's... well...
lolcatnip 9 points 3 years ago
Whose original idea for police? Sounds like maybe you're alluding to Robert Peel. But as far as I know, the intellectual heritage of American police is more of an extension of runaway slave patrols.
Uranium3006 5 points 3 years ago
the original idea was to make the KKK be on the state payroll
Unaware7013 50 points 3 years ago
Let me just simplify the headline
Will the Supreme Court Make Life Worse for America?
The answer is yes, that's basically all they do for 99.9% of Americans.
crandlecan 23 points 3 years ago
Based on past decisions I'm gonna say yes
moonsnotreal 15 points 3 years ago
"Why? 'Cuz fuck 'em, that's why" -Supreme Court
superduperenigma 14 points 3 years ago
EVERYONE'S lives worse
Billionaires:
superduperenigma 6 points 3 years ago
Based.
originalucifer 11 points 3 years ago
i mean, i agree the conservatives have shown they contain zero empathy for anyone anywhere except themselves.
but
wasnt the US constitution written for and by a bunch of rich, land-owning white guys? i guess im surprised what rights any non-landowners currently have. lucky us!
BraveSirZaphod 6 points 3 years ago
That's a bit over-simplistic. If the founders had simply wanted to swap out rule by British monarchy and oligarchs with themselves, they could have done a lot more to enable that. The Constitution allowed the States to set voting rights as they liked, and there was more diversity than you'd expect. 60 percent of white men were eligible to vote in 1776, and while that's obviously not exactly good, it's not an attempt to establish a blatant neo-nobility. In 1789, Georgia abolished the property requirement. Vermont granted voting rights to all men in 1791. Property restrictions were gradually eliminated over the next few decades, and by 1856, property ownership was no longer a requirement in any state.
Given the original framework of the United States as a somewhat loose coalition of operationally independent states, it would have been seen as an overreach for the Constitution to mandate how states could distribute voting rights. The federal government wasn't meant to play a super significant part it the average person's day-to-day life.
lolcatnip 4 points 3 years ago
One does have to wonder, though, if the main reason they avoided trying to set up a new aristocracy is because they were afraid of what would happen if they did. They had just convinced a whole lot of people to take up arms against the king, and it doesn't take much imagination to see those same people turning against a new batch of American aristocrats very quickly.
BraveSirZaphod 3 points 3 years ago
For sure; the founders were an ideologically diverse group of people with a lot of different and conflicting agendas. That said, the influence of some sincere belief in humanist Enlightenment philosophy is impossible to deny, even if it was certainly restricted in its scope. Many of the founders very much intended to abolish slavery, for instance, but it became clear that the Southern states would refuse to join if that was made an absolute condition. There is an alternate universe where two distinct countries were created rather than accepting the continuation of slavery as a compromise, though it's hard to say if that's really a better world or not.
My main point is that it's somewhat ahistorical to speak of the founders a cohesive ideological group at all. "They" weren't collectively avoiding are seeking much of anything in common; the final Constitution was the result of a lot of very heated debates and compromises.
BarrelAgedBoredom 10 points 3 years ago
Not even gonna read the article. Yes, they will
Velociraptor 7 points 3 years ago
That seems to be the job of the Supreme Court for quite a few groups of people yes.
Candelestine 7 points 3 years ago
Yes, probably.
Next clickbait headline...?
_haha_oh_wow_ 4 points 3 years ago
Probably
GopherOwl 1 point 3 years ago
Because nuance is hard to come by. . .
No, the constitutional rights will not change. They will still have protections against cruel and unusual punishment.
The issue is the 9th circuit ruling is overly broad. I fully agree if somebody has nowhere to go, then penalizing them for existing is cruel and unusual. With the stipulations of the Boise shelters, that was certainly the case for the plaintiffs.
However stretching that to "unless there is a shelter bed for everybody, nobody can be penalized for declining a bed" is an illogical conclusion. The difference is individual versus population. If individual A has nowhere they can legally go, they cannot be punished. But that doesn't mean individual B, who does have somewhere to go also cannot be punished.
Using the same logic as the 9th Circuit's ruling, if the government cannot provide a foster home for every child, then we cannot enforce any child endangerment laws. Even if in the hypothetical some child may be able to be placed with a relative, they couldn't be removed from the endangering situation. That's illogical and this ruling needs narrowed in scope.
Edit: I also want to point out that even this post is probably too reductionist. So please add counterpoint, clarifications, etc. One compelling counterpoint I've heard is the difficulty of determining who would be unable to go somewhere. And truthfully I don't have a good argument against it. However I have a hard time accepting when shelter beds have lower occupancy, why no enforcement is allowed.
The bottom line remains these are people, and many desperately need help, some against their will. We need more housing, more support systems, more everything really. But throwing our hands up and allowing the problem to remain unabated is no benefit to the individual nor the community as a whole.
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