I feel like this was an exception to the rule, since he was still at large for a while and it was imperative to the public safety that people knew who he was and what he looked like.
That said, yes, the media does need to pull back on publishing details about the killers in these situations.
At the time, maybe, but he's dead, no reason to keep parading the name and picture around anymore.
Fair
Yes honestly
Therefore we shall have the state enact limits on speech to help suppress it
Better if individuals smash their windows or harass their editors when they try to pee
Quit naming them in the titles! Just let their legacy evaporate.
You give meaning to your username
And nothing of value was lost.
I mean, sure would have been nice to have a living suspect for the criminologists or psychologists.
I bet we can figure out his motives and mental state through good ol' fashioned detective work. I'll take the first step for them, and tell them to look at his social media history. Freud would shit himself if he were alive today and could scroll a facebook feed.
I disagree. More data points are useful to show the future how batshit insane our policy choices are.
Donāt we already have ample data to support that? Like, what could we learn that would make a difference? Iām not being facetious, Iām honestly asking.
in an ideal world, what would move the needle?
Iām very interested in abnormal psychology and have read many studies, watched tons of hours of police interviews, read loads of psychiatric notes and court transcripts, prisonersā diaries, etc ā itās all out there and freely available if youāre interested.
This issue is decades old. Thereās a ridiculous amount of information available. I developed morbid curiosity after Columbine, and have seen and read things I probably shouldnāt have for my own mental health, but I feel itās important to know things like this.
Itās not my belief ā just look at the raw data and what psychologists say. We donāt know everything, obviously, but we know quite enough.
e: Iām not talking about what psychologists can learn, Iām talking about us, the public.
Obviously not enough for predictive analysis. Hunan behavior is predictable with enough data. Not that we should be collecting the amount of data necessaryā¦ā¦.. right?
not sure what youāre suggesting.
Obviously the FBI and other authorities do predictive analysis.
Iām not talking about agencies ā Iām talking about us. Regular people. Weāre not doing predictive analysis. Weāre not trained for it, and that would be a disaster.
Iām talking about regular people and the random nut jobs we elect to office. We have plenty of data to formulate and implement solutions, and discovering exactly which region of Norway the gods this loser thought he was listening to hailed from (or whatever, fake example obviously) wonāt change that.
bunches of those in prisons already though.
It really disappoints me to see people say this when the dude clearly had mental issues, potentiated by the Army. It clearly says that the dude was hearing voices and wanted to shoot up a military base and everyone was like " š¤·āāļø let's throw him in a psych ward for two weeks, that will fix the issue".
Dude didn't get the help he needed, that was someone's child too....
He got all the help anyone could give him. We simply can't cure "I'm hearing voices and want to kill people" in a couple of weeks.
What we can do is ensure that it's not cheaper, faster and easier to go on a killing spree instead of recovering.
But that might impact the profits of the gun lobby, so they insist we instead cure every single person of every single mental health problem before they kill people with their legal guns.
It's possible for both things to be valid. I'm not American so the whole owning guns thing is weird to me anyway but surely the bare minimum is banning weapons that are expressly made for killing humans, like hand guns and assault weapons.
But alongside that, it's a fact that this guy did not get the help he needed, certainly not all the help anyone could give him. Two weeks on a ward is nowhere near enough time to treat someone in acute psychosis.
Literally all guns are made for killing, that's their primary purpose. There are tons of gun owners that don't use it for that purpose though. IMO we should work on mental health reform (and reforming other things) so people don't want to go out and commit mass murders. Of course, there's always going to be the unhelpable people but you can at least get rid of about 75% of them.
But alongside that, it's a fact that this guy did not get the help he needed, certainly not all the help anyone could give him. Two weeks on a ward is nowhere near enough time to treat someone in acute psychosis.
No, it's not nearly enough time. But it's also far more time than it takes to buy a semi-automatic weapon in America.
The help he received is the limit of what any healthcare system, anywhere in the world could have given him.
The only mental healthcare system that would make America's gun laws safe is one that involuntarily comitted people for the rest of their lives, purely because they weren't healthy enough to sell guns to.
Guns aren't the problem, it's the people that are the problem. Guns just make it easier for them. I'm all for stricter gun control laws federally but there are so many other people that need mental help and focusing on gun control doesn't help them.
Also you can stop the "I'm hearing voices and want kill people" in a few weeks, we do it all the time with medication, the problem is administering said medication because you can't force someone to take it.
The number of people who support gun control but oppose socialised healthcare is virtually zero.
Voting Republican ensures they get no help before they decide to become domestic terrorists but the moment they decide to buy a gun and kill as many people as possible, Republicans have their back.
So were the 18 people that fucking died. I get it, all the bleeding hearts need to help every wounded animal they find, but for fucks sake, how many chances do we give murderers and rapists? How many people have to die so that one can get the help they need. As a world, as a species, we have to learn when it is OK to let the wounded animal die. Not every choice has a perfect answer, but letting this asshat off himself instead of hoping that we can fix him and he won't do it again is the better answer. There is now a 100% chance that he won't kill anyone, and that's a much better chance than we'd have if we sent him off to a shrink and locked him up in a broken prison system.
I think you misunderstood @pete_the_cat 's point. They weren't suggesting retroactive treatment had he been caught, they were suggesting that if he'd been properly treated he might never have committed the crimes he did.
At least someone understands me š
It's ridiculously difficult it is to get adequate mental health support here in the US. I finally got myself help about 2 years back and luckily it was easy for me to find therapists and psychiatrists since I was in NYC. They're a dime a dozen. My parents live 3 hours south in NJ, my dad's psychiatrist retired and there's apparently no one in the area that he can see (he says he doesn't want to talk with a female therapist for some reason and feels video chatting is impersonal, he's 73). The closest ones available are about a 45 minute drive away.
I left NYC and my shrink couldn't write scripts for me anymore since he wasn't licensed in NJ. He was prescribing me 1.5-2 pills of 10 mg Ambien every night because everything else that we tried wasn't effective (I had been taking Ambien for like 15-20 years previously but it tended to make me feel like shit in the morning, but we solved that issue), and the only other thing that works for me is smoking weed. I attempted to see another psychiatrist through the same company (it's a telehealth company) but that turned into an absolute shit show. The only one I could see before a 3 week waiting period was a new guy. He wanted to follow the rules exactly and refused to listen to me, I told him the hour long intake was worthless since he should have a year's worth of notes from the previous guy. He wanted me to take all these tests to see if I was on it or needed it. After arguing with him for an hour, he said he would see if his supervisor would authorize it, they did after a week... But it was only for one pill a night, so I went through it twice as quickly. I couldn't get any more after that because I was moving states again and didn't want to go through the same bullshit again. They were more than happy to throw ADHD meds (Stratera, not a stimulant like Adderall) at me though! So here I am writing up this comment at 2:30 AM after drinking two 6% ABV beers, walking 7 miles today, taking 40 mg of melatonin and 100 mg of Benadryl. If I had weed, I'd be asleep by now but it's only medically legal here and I haven't figured out how to apply for a medical card, also my tolerance is stupid high. This could all be solved if they would just give me my damn Ambien that I need.
My dad has the same problem with getting his Ambien as well, though a different insurance company and doctor.
You know how other countries have these weird things in place to get people treated before they go on killing sprees. How about that shit?
Just saying "Oh good, that asshole is dead, let's move on" is the American Way.
That's the most fucked up thing about the past decade or two. This shit keeps happening and people are like š¤·āāļø "let ban the guns so they can't commit mass murders easily! That'll fix the problem!" meanwhile completely ignoring the reason that causes all these people to go out and commit mass murders against people that they don't even know. All this does is incite more violence and rage by those that feel that the government is overstepping its boundaries (second amendment douches) and they feel that they need to fight back against a tyrannical government. This country sucks for a lot of reasons, it's better off than some other countries, but it's just getting worse since the rise of social media, smartphones and internet adoption in general by the masses.
This dude could have been treated, he was suffering from paranoid delusions and probably had PTSD. IDK if he actually fought in the wars in the Middle East or if he was just purely in the Army Reserve, but if he was in the wars, he probably saw a bunch of fucked up stuff. There's a reason why a lot of vets either kill themselves or become addicts after returning home, they're discarded like garbage used by the government. It can take people multiple months or years to get the free treatment from the VA that they were promised, a lot of them never get it in time. He wasn't a psychopath (or now as it is more broken down into, Antisocial Personality Disorder) that enjoyed hurting people like many convicted mass murders, he was just fucked in the head. This could have been prevented, it was known that he was having paranoia delusions, our country just loves to be reactive and not proactive. Psych wards are absolute shit, my friend was in a "trauma unit" for a 72 hour hold and it's essentially prison where they throw meds at you to keep you sedated. Putting him in there for 2 weeks possibly made him worse off.
I'm not arguing that it couldn't have been prevented. I'm not trying to advocate for thought crimes or anything wild like that. I'm just saying that he killed 18 people, and there is a very real chance that if he was still alive he would try to do it again, even with treatment. Now, that chance is 0%, and I think that we owe it to the 18 people who died to agree that maybe this is a fine way for things to have ended. I'm sure potential targets 19, 20, etc. agree.
It's terrible. It shouldn't happen. We should be able to help out every person in the world who is in pain. BUT WE CAN'T. Everyone loves to kick the can down the road and let the blame fall to the VA or Mental Hospitals, or whothefuckever, but no one wants to do anything about it. If you don't like it, then you need to do something about it, because not enough people are, but the minute you talk about, "I don't have the time," but hop on Lemmy to argue with strangers, or "I can't afford to take time off of work," but buy a new phone or whatthefuckever that you don't need, then realize that you are part of the problem. If you think the people of the Armed Forces need better help, then what are you doing right now? Because it sure as shit isn't helping them.
Please don't twist my words.
Until next time. Stay safe out there guys.
Same time next week?
Same Bat channel?
Fucking called it.
glad to hear that he's not at large - but it's unfortunate he wont be forced to stand trial and brought to justice for his crimes.
Iām all for archive links and all, but what the fuck is this:
What a coward... I regret not being able to give him his day in court and hold him in a concrete box for the rest of his long life.
This is a bad take, the dude was fucked in the head from the war and other stuff. It's not necessarily his fault, he didn't get the help he needed.
When something like this happens people always blame the guns or the guy, but this guy clearly had issues that everyone was like š¤·āāļø. He then goes out and kills 18 people then himself, and people demonize him as if there were no other warnings. He was fucked from the beginning.
This isn't someone that was like "I wanna kill all gays/muslims/Democrats/etc..." he was just fucked in the head.
Edit: it seems the Reddit downvoting hive mind has followed us here. I wrote pretty much the exact same comment elsewhere in here and it gets 20 up votes, yet this has is at -14
Yet it's still the guns, be it in the hands of an officially mentally ill person or someone who's undiagnosed but can't descern reality from fiction none the less.
Assault weapon ban goes into effect, mass shootings drop drastically.
Assault weapons ban is allowed to expire, it goes up north of 200%.
Assault weapons are revered like Jesus himself and mass murder scenarios suddenly happen every goddamn week.
The prevalence of weapons and free availability of them to virtually anyone, be they mentally ill or fundamentalist radicals, is the direct cause of this getting so out of hand.
Not mental illness or healthcare.
Mental illness exists everywhere.
Mass shootings (and probably any shootings) on the scale and regularity like in the US do not exist anywhere else.
So the crazy people with the guns aren't the problem, it's just their access to guns that are the problem.
Tell that to Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kazinski, or the Tsarnaiev (or however you spell it) Brothers that committed the Boston Marathon bombing, Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer (I could keep listing names if you would like). Not one of them used a single gun to actually commit the murders, but they killed or maimed a shitload of people. But yeah, it's the guns that are clearly the problem, not the bat shit crazy people. I agree that there should be stricter gun laws federally, but saying "crazy people don't kill people, crazy people with guns kill people!" is just ignoring the root cause, which is they're fucking crazy.
Mass shootings go down, mass truckings go up. If they want to kill they will find a way. Mass shootings are EXTREMELY rare, statistically, compared to other firms of murder and there is no way in hell that you can implement "assault weapon" bans federally... Hell, band are getting overturned as unconstitutional As We Speak!
Dogshit take. "Can't stop all murders, so don't try!"
Please tell us about all of the mass truckings that happen daily in the UK and Australia.
Won't you think of the poor mass murderers??!
He was in the Army Reserve it said, I don't expect it to go into his back story. He could have been in combat previously. My buddy spent 3 years in the Army and he's been in the Reserve for like 5 years now because he gets good benefits from it.
Regardless of that, this dude has mental issues that were treatable but he clearly didn't get the help he needed.
No pity for fucking murderers. I'm fucked in the head and I know plenty of people with mental illness, none of us have murdered anyone.
Yeah... That's because they got the help that they needed. You don't really want a person with paranoid delusions walking around unmedicated. Also you just said "mental illness" which could be a wide range of things, there's very few disorders that bring you to the point of killing someone else and this dude apparently had one of them.
You're a big fan of his?
That poster is showing empathy and you are not. MORE violence is clearly not the answer to this problem. I know it's hard and emotions are high but these people are some of the ones most desperately in need of help.
That poster is showing empathy and you are not.
Correct.
MORE violence is clearly not the answer to this problem.
Also correct.
but these people are some of the ones most desperately in need of help.
At least from me, they have given up any eligibility for empaty or help when they decide to murser innocent people.
Press Conference (Starts at 16:30) https://www.youtube.com/live/e1z-776Bo4U
Man, you'd think they would have better audio for something like this...
Maybe this one's a bit better; https://www.wmtw.com/...
?
CBS News had also learned that investigators had located the suspect's cellphone and were trying to crack it and pore over his online activity,
interesting spelling
oh wow TIL.
Still feels weird though.
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Every time
Every single time
Every time, when the media posts pictures and names of murderers, they help create more copy cats.
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