Judge Repeatedly Asks Lawyers to 'Control' Trump as Testimony Goes Off the Rails
3 years ago by CantaloupeLifestyle to c/politics
Also, Judge Engoran has 20 years of experience being a judge, and he was a practicing lawyer before that. He was a judge before Habba got her license, and he's probably more than double her overall experience.
The fact that she didn't even know that witness testimony means answering questions really puts a big question mark over her 13 years, anyways.
The question mark appeared when she agreed to represent Trump.
I have to say, none of that means shit if he lets the guy run all over him and do whatever he likes with no consequences. Most people can't piss a judge off that much without spending time in jail.
Watch the proceedings of that "sovereign citizen" idiot Darrell Brooks who drove a car into a Christmas parade in Wisconsin. That guy never heard the phrase "just shut the fuck up". It's so maddening to watch that insolent manchild, I couldn't make it past two minutes of footage.
I feel like I have to clarify that I'm not American before making comments so there's enough wiggle room for potential ignorance.
I think it probably is a tactic he is using so that when it's time for consequences, there's plenty of leeway given to trump to show that he wasn't acting biased, it's just that trump is a fucking moron that can't shut up, when the lunatics decide to shout about it.
That's possible. People literally get years added to their sentences for back talking judges. You are simply not allowed to derail a trial even a little bit, and the consequences for attempting it are swift and harsh. For anyone else.
I'm so tired of this fuckwit's behavior, but i'm even more angry that at every turn people have had the ability to stop that behavior and haven't. And now we're here. Anyone else would be immediately taken to jail for the stuff he's doing inside the courtroom and out and he's still not stopped.
It's a mockery, and if the courts can't handle this guy they have no business ruining people's lives for things that don't compare to anything trump has done.
It almost seems like parody to say, but the people defending Trump are not compatible with rational thoughts like "the judge gave Trump leeway because he wasn't biased". Even serving them those thoughts on a silver platter would just end in them rejecting it with whatever platitude they prefer to use when realizing they have nothing they can say (i.e. "bah that's just cancel culture")
I see you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about.
no consequence
lmao
Trump is trying to frustrate the fuck out of Engoron, that’s why he and his lackeys have been attacking the law clerks and pushing false narratives about them like the dating a senator or donated to dems bullshit.
Engoron is weathering this storm by slowly and methodically building a trail of evidence so if this is taken to appeals based on the “unfair judge” bullshit they keep spewing about, the judge has an undeniable response to that.
Summary judgment was already granted, he’s guilty, this is about determining size of disgorgement. Trump isn’t running away with a damn thing, and I think it’s hilarious that you do.
Most people can’t piss a judge off that much without spending time in jail
Wow thanks for telling us. Guess what? trump isn’t just some fucking guy, he has a large portion of republicans that will truly do anything he asks, he has a very long history of using litigation to bully his way to what he wants and like it or not he has connections and funding to keep pulling on those same threads.
This is about letting Trump sink himself, it’s not a goddamn race to the finish line (well… aside from 11/24)
It’s almost like court justice is never swift but methodical, and it’s almost like with these cases methodical is the way to go instead of snap punishments. Thank god the judge can think past any current moment and look to the bigger picture, unlike you.
I’ll save you the trouble for your inevitable reply
b-b-but nothing has happened to him so it just won’t ever!!!!!
Try not to forget there is NO precedent for ANY of this. WE CANNOT RUSH ANY OF THIS.
You have a bad day or something? That's a whole torrent of nastiness, and it seems like you missed the context of my comment.
The judge is letting him behave horribly. That usually gets you at least a night in jail. That's the lack of consequences i'm talking about.
If you don't think that's a big deal, consider that trump only acts the way he does because a long succession of people who could have and should have put him in his place didn't do it.
Thank you. I understand why people are itching for Engoron to send Trump to jail for contempt. It would be very satisfying in the short term. The problem is that the judge has to think long term. If he sends Trump to jail now for a day and that tanks the whole case Inc appeal, that's in the judge. So Engoron is putting up with Trump's shenanigans while building an appeals proof judgment.
Is it more annoying in the short term seeing Trump "get away with" so much with, at most, little fines? Sure, but this is what's best in the long term. Engoron has been a judge for decades. I trust he knows his job better than people whose legal experience is "I watched a few Law and Order episodes, listened to a law podcast once, and watched a few legal YouTubers." (No offense intended to legal YouTubers. I love Legal Eagle especially. But you can't assume you're a legal expert just because you watched those videos. There's a reason that it takes years to study law.)
The fact that she didn't even know that witness testimony means answering questions really puts a big question mark over her 13 years, anyways.
I know that and my legal expertise is just what I've picked up over the course of my life. No law degree or anything. The fact that I might be more qualified to be a lawyer than Habba is bad news for Trump. (For the record, you do NOT want me representing you in court. Get a real lawyer, not some guy whose best qualification is "knows more than a Trump lawyer.")
She was also complaining, after court, that the judge was telling her what to do and she doesn't stand for that in her life.
Um, you do when you're in the court. If the judge tells you to shut up, you shut up. You can be offended that the judge told you to shut up, but you'd better not argue with the judge and tell them that you have a right to say whatever you want to say in their court. Not unless you want to spend a night in a jail cell.
And this is exactly how they will fuel their appeal. He will say the judge was unwilling to listen to his testimony, and use that quote as evidence.
That appeal would be quickly denied. The Judge is absolutely right: They "are here to hear him answer questions", not "to listen to what he has to say." The Judge has a responsibility to keep testimony responsive to the questions asked and relevant to the case, not to let witnesses give monologues about whatever nonsense is running through their heads at the moment.
At one point, while he was being questioned on a 2021 financial statement, Trump claimed to have been too busy focusing on “China, Russia and keeping our country safe.” The state’s attorney reminded him that he was not president in 2021.
lmao.
Antifa ate my homework ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I liked how Trump claimed that Letitia James wouldn't know anything about 40 Wall Street. She had to suppress a chuckle. Her office is under 3 blocks away from it. Here's a Google Map of the two.
The problem is that this is a strategy, and it might work. The judge is showing signs of exasperation. The defense is laying the grounds for an appeal based on judicial bias. Viewed in that light, each time the judge interjects out of annoyance or exasperation is citable evidence. It's funny, but it is also rather dangerous.
The judge needs to calmly and patiently explain to Trump that he will be jailed for contempt if he doesn't follow the rules and act in good faith, and then dispassionately follow through with that consequence.
Don't threaten him, don't cajole his lawyers to constrain him, don't complain about his behavior. Just give him a time-out, like the petulant toddler he is, until he gets it through his skull that his bullshit won't be tolerated.
Once he comes back, if he won't agree to behave or if he does promise to behave and then breaks that promise, simply immediately put him back in the cell for another round.
Trump needs to see the inside of a holding cell for a while in order to act right.
As much as I'd love to see it, jailing him for contempt would play right into their plan. He wouldn't see 24hr of cell time before his fanatic base would be whipped into violence, painted as political persecution of the GOP (defacto) nominee
It's all paper thin excuses to anyone with critical thinking, but we know it'd be a successful ploy.
What the fuck is the national guard for then? It's the correct and legal punishment, and it's a matter of national security. These concepts are not conflicting.
I'm prepared to defend myself, my family and my home. Ever fought a bully? They fucking cave with the quickness.
One silly bitch got shot through the neck and they scrambled out of that part of the Capitol.
I'm not brave, but if they think I'm harmless, they are free to test that assumption.
Fuck em. They already sent their best on Jan 6. I'm not impressed. The National Guard can steamroll them and the cops if the cops turn traitor.
Let them do their violence, it'll end like Ft. Sumpter the first time around.
I don't think it's a strategy, it's just a happy potential by-product, albeit an unlikely one.
Sure it's possible that a judge might make mistakes that may form the basis for a successful appeal. Is Engoron more likely to make mistakes because of Trump's antics? Not necessarily. Most people do their best work under pressure.
Trump's behavior is focused as always on his supporters. The more he appears to be persecuted the more his supporters will throw money at him - it's that simple. He's intentionally pushing the judge as far as he can without crossing the line into actual consequences.
Edit: as an aside the photos of these idiots always makes me think about how much time they've spent practicing their facial expressions in a mirror.
I'll add to that that wasting a judge's time through non-compliance is a fast track to default judgment. Just ask Alex Jones how that goes.
The right to a speedy trial is a right for the prosecutors, too.
Not just wasting the judge's time, but yelling at and insulting the judge on the stand. I'm no lawyer, but I doubt this is a legal strategy that any reputable legal professional would recommend.
Already got the equivalent of a default judgement - he's already ruled on the law.
"You are the most guilty, uncooperative, unapologetic criminal I've ever dealt with" — Judge
Slap on wrist — also, Judge
I'll believe otherwise when I see it.
This judge already ruled that the Trump enterprise in NY is dead and for all business licenses to be pulled. That has been stayed pending appeal. They will not win the appeal.
This trial is purely for damages to see just how much of Trump's assets will have to be liquidated once Judge Engoron determines an amount based on this ridiculous "testimony."
Hint: it's going to be a metric fuckload
This trial, for the defence, is an effort to pull a much shit as they can to aim for a mistrial and years worth of appeals.
"Judicial bias" is going to be thrown around a lot during appeals, and these same quotes from Engoron will be used as evidence. This is all a play, and it could work in the long-term.
At one point he indicated that he had sometimes felt the values assigned to his properties were off, but stated that the discrepancies were both “high and low.”
"Your honor, I'd like to take this opportunity to defend myself by confirming the facts of the case and also that I didn't listen when you told me what I'm accused of!" - The former POTUS
It's even worse than that: apart from the overvaluing for insurance and other purposes that everyone's focusing on, he's also been undervaluing the very same properties to evade taxes, further undercutting both the "honest mistake " and "had no idea" defenses.
Fucking astounds me how this grifter is pulling numbers....everyone for him is just doing it for spite now...
You underestimate the electoral power of making rural white folks feel like they can say the N-word without being looked down on as racist trash
These are the rat fuckers who think the president will make their families come back for thanksgiving again even though they have done no work to address that they all left because they tried to force some poor young girl onto cousin Maury with his husband right fucking there.
Tell me you've never lived in a rural area without telling me you never lived in a rural area. Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly confused and usually revolted by trump supporters, but the rampant intolerance of rural people is also revolting.
If Trump's rural supporters want to be tolerated they're the ones that gotta put the effort in to be tolerable.
You don't see the rest of us dragging the entire country down to cling to child beauty pageants child marriage and child massacres.
You're tying a group that's not a monolith with another group that's not a monolith and making a number of assumptions in both cases. Not only are a lot of rural people left wing and not at all racist. But I've yet to meet a single rural person that married their cousin, but I have met a city person that has.
Alternatively, the other week I was riding a taxi with this black guy who was as left wing as they come, had very progressive ideas, and was Trump's biggest fan, he was absolutely obsessed with Trump. He thinks there is some big conspiracy that makes all other politicians evil and Trump is going to save us.
When you make basic generalizations about groups of people you increase divisiveness and make the problem worse. Rural people know city liberals look down on them, and that pushes the divide further and further. I grew up in a heavily liberal rural area that is becoming more and more right wing, and people exactly like you are responsible. People like you made that happen. Be better.
I've definitely seen a lot of backfire effect going on. If you voted for Trump because, for example, you thought that a political outsider would fix everything and you ignored all the bad shit in hopes that it would work out, then it's hard now to admit that you were wrong. Admitting that Trump sucks is also, for those people, admitting that they were foolish to ever believe in him, which is a difficult and intolerable admission. Better to just ignore evidence and move forward blindly in support.
At least, I've seen a lot of that in my mostly purple area where the divide is only getting worse and stronger.
This free book from 1951 about mass movements explains what is going on. They feel their lives are spoiled and maga gives them hope. Logic doesn't matter.
The True Believer - Eric Hoffer https://www.academia.edu/...
There was an article yesterday saying that both Trump and his lawyers are specifically trying to piss off the judge, at which point they'll use it as a point in their appeal. Oh, and his current lawyers have told him that even if the judge does try to their him in jail for contempt, they have strategies to ensure that he doesn't actually have to spend any time there. :/
I'm sure that will go over great.
Us mere mortals would already be in the slammer for half the stuff he's done.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Donald Trump was rebuked by Judge Arthur Engoron for giving “speeches” during his testimony on Monday before New York court in a civil fraud trial that will determine the future of his business empire.
“Some of your answers have not been in response to the question,” Engoron told Trump earlier in his testimony, adding that prosecuting attorney Kevin Wallace had been “very patient.”
“Getting ready to head to the Downtown Lower Manhattan Courthouse to testify in one of the many cases that were instigated and brought by my POLITICAL OPPONENT, Crooked Joe Biden, through agencies and surrogates, for purposes of ELECTION INTERFERENCE,” Trump wrote.
“Got a really Biased, Nasty, Club controlled, but often overturned, Judge, a Racist, Evil, and Corrupt Attorney General,” he added.” A dark day for our Country.
The former president has already been fined twice, and threatened with jail time, for violating a gag order put in place by Engoron after he attacked one of the judge’s clerks on social media.
On Friday, Engoron expanded the order, which barred the former president from publicly commenting on members of the court’s staff, to include similar restrictions on the statements of Trump’s attorneys.
The original article contains 858 words, the summary contains 194 words. Saved 77%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
the american justice system right now:
It'll be the first time he's ever finished a full sentence without rambling about fly paper or injecting disinfectant.
Good luck with that.
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Ultra-mega-fucked.
LMAO at a bottom tier lawyer trying to tell a judge how to do their job.
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