As an arch user, I'm confused... Doesn't everyone use curl as their browser?
rustydrd 10 points 3 years ago
Not related to Arch, but behold Richard Stallmann describing how he uses the internet: https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html (see section "How I use the internet" and the other section below that with the same title).
nixcamic 12 points 3 years ago
In fact, what I use is MatΓ© (an English way of writing the Spanish word Mate).
As a Spanish speaker I'd just like to say
A: wtf is this even supposed to mean?
B: mate and matΓ© are two entirely different words.
C: The mate desktop environment is named after hierba mate, no Γ©.
acockworkorange 4 points 3 years ago
I generally do not connect to web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites I have some special relationship with. I usually fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/womb/hacks.git) that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly. I usually try lynx first, then a graphical browser if the page needs it.
Fuck. What the hell.
I occasionally also browse unrelated sites using IceCat via Tor. Except for rare cases, I do not identify myself to them. I think that plus Tor plus LibreJS is enough to prevent my browsing from being associated with me. IceCat blocks tracking tags and most fingerprinting methods.
Ironically I think this makes his the most unique fingerprint in the whole internet.
redcalcium 6 points 3 years ago
Let me introduce you to Browsh
Michael717 2 points 3 years ago
Imaging not enjoying the internet via raw sockets having fun decrypting manually.
rowanthorpe 3 points 3 years ago
printf 'GET / HTTP/1.0\r\n' | openssl s_client -connect example.com:443 -ign_eof | html2text
ArbitraryValue 66 points 3 years ago
OS ships with a browser.
Boo!
OS ships with a browser.
Yay!
abbotsbury 46 points 3 years ago
It's not "shipping with a browser" that was ever the problem.
ILikeBoobies 1 point 3 years ago
My OS doesnβt but my DE does
DrM 3 points 3 years ago
It lost a lot of the super-good touchscreen PDF functionality when it switched to chromium though, which I am still mad about. I hope at one point MS will return the PDF Viewer from the original edge
Interstellar_1 1 point 3 years ago
Floorp (A firefox fork) has native horizontal tabs
ILikeBoobies 2 points 3 years ago
Edge = Chrome but less ram usage
ILikeBoobies 1 point 3 years ago
Edge uses less RAM than Chrome
nixcamic 17 points 3 years ago
If you're gonna go though the trouble of installing a browser, why switch Microsoft for Google? They're both evil and Edge actually performs significantly better than Chrome somehow (they're basically the same I don't get it).
Install freaking Firefox.
Skimmer 2 points 3 years ago
I agree yeah, I'd say in a lot of ways that Edge is much better than Chrome, due to its performance and also very good security, plus some tracking protection (though not a lot) vs. Chrome's none, etc. Between the 2, I'd probably always pick Edge.
But yeah just never use either tbh, Firefox ftw.
callyral 1 point 3 years ago
If youβre gonna go though the trouble of installing a browser, why switch Microsoft for Google?
Exactly I don't get it, the only explanation I can think of is that they have Chrome on their phone and want to sync it or something?
Kleinbonum 0 points 3 years ago
Conversely, if they're both evil, why use Microsoft over Google?
People have their browser set up the way they want it, and downloading and installing Chrome to have everything sync back and work exactly the way they want things to work takes all of two minutes.
Why use Edge and spend time and effort to import bookmarks, import passwords, change settings, install extensions etc. only to have the exact same end result that downloading Chrome would have given them in the first place, but with the added annoyance of Microsoft leveraging Edge to nudge them into the Microsoft ecosystem?
Kleinbonum 1 point 3 years ago
Point being that installing Chrome isn't the "trouble" you're making it out to be, when switching to Edge comes with zero advantage.
But you weren't asking an open ended question anyway, right?
RickyRigatoni 5 points 3 years ago
it's not even shady anymore. it's just clingy and pathetic like an ex who can't move on.
dansity 5 points 3 years ago
I used to get it why people install chrome. It had a specific look and feel. It's no more, all browsers (except some startups making up the rules) look the same. Its a full page window with tabs on the top. Vanilla FF looks the same.
Sharp312 3 points 3 years ago
Honestly i dont think most people do. We're all in a bubble of atleast somewhat technically minded people, not just on lemmy but im sure most of our friends irl are similar. Ive been in a few officey type areas and out of the vast majority of monitors ive seen, theyve been using edge, sometimes i even see multiple browsers open lmao. Just checked statcounter and edge is the third most used which is fucking nuts when you consider how many options there are.
fossilesque 3 points 3 years ago path: 0 5554826 5554907, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
vinhill 3 points 3 years ago
I think lots of people also don't know how easy it is to migrate all user data between browsers. Also, the added work of changing your phone app is probably too much for the average, comfortable consumer.
HappyToaster1911 4 points 3 years ago
Chromium isn't chrome, and there are reasons to use browsers not based on firefox, I like Vivaldi more than firefox way better customization and more features, but since Manifest V3 exists I am using firefox so I am already used to it if Google makes the other browsers shit
WereCat 3 points 3 years ago
Workgroups, tab stacking, tab tiling, side by side view of multiple websites which you can interact with at the same time within one window, keyboard only control (if desired) and more.
nixcamic 2 points 3 years ago
Most or all of those are available in extensions and keyboard only I think is in stock FF but I can understand not wanting to install a million extensions to recreate that functionality. I was a die hard old school Opera user but just can't bring myself to daily drive a chromium based browser.
possiblylinux127 7 points 3 years ago
Set-ExecutionPolicy RemoteSigned -Scope CurrentUser # Optional: Needed to run a remote script the first time
irm get.scoop.sh | iex
Microsoft doesn't need to even be involved
odelik 6 points 3 years ago
At least in win11.
Not sure about win10, which didn't have it installed by default orginally, but could be now? None of my win 10 machines are recent enough fresh installs to confirm, and have winget (and choco) installed because I installed it so I can install stuff easily.
rmuk 11 points 3 years ago
On Windows 10 it was automatically installed as an update using - wait for it - the Microsoft Store.
Yes, the system-wide package manager was distributed as a package in the desktop store. π€
vegantomato 1 point 3 years ago path: 0 5556755 5591051, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
rtxn 9 points 3 years ago
Fuck Winget. It's a GUI-only person's idea of what a CLI package manager should be. The only positive value I can think of is that it's better than not having one at all.
I manage about 500 Windows machines in a university. When teachers started complaining that they are unfamiliar with the paid version of an IDE, and we'd have to install the free community edition, I was delighted to learn that it was available through Winget. But privilege escalation on Windows is a fucking joke, so trying to install it remotely through Ansible/WinRM just popped the UAC anyway. I had to VNC into every single machine to click the fucking button. As an additional middle finger, winget.exe was not even in PATH when I tried WinRMing as the local admin.
Winget is the absolute nadir of package managers, and it should be doused in acid, burned, chucked in the dumpster where it belongs, and forgotten. Choco and Scoop all the way.
HW07 2 points 3 years ago
I find that winget tends to just grab M$ Store packages, essentially becoming just an alternative CLI frontend.
Chocolatey, however, actually grabs the native program. And it isn't developed by Microsoft.
Even Scoop is good enough, however programs might not work perfectly because it uses portable versions of the program.
possiblylinux127 1 point 3 years ago
Scoop is way better than both of those as it bypasses installing apps completely
possiblylinux127 1 point 3 years ago
Use scoop
gnuplusmatt 22 points 3 years ago
winget install Google.Chrome
Windows has a package manager like a big boy OS these days
redcalcium 15 points 3 years ago
Microsoft offers to buy out AppGet and had its developer join them, but then ghost him once they realized the dev is also Sonarr dev.
MNByChoice 2 points 3 years ago
Sorry is AptGet something other than Debian's "apt get"?
Corgisocks 6 points 3 years ago
AppGet was a package manager for windows.
Pantherina 2 points 3 years ago
Thats nice!
slimarev92 4 points 3 years ago
Yeah, but it's mid at best. Many apps open a GUI installer even with winget. Also updates for many apps don't work (if the app doesn't save its version properly in the registry).
Pantherina 4 points 3 years ago
I mean its still Windows, they dont package anything thats the job of the apps.
slimarev92 4 points 3 years ago
That's exactly what it does.
cupcakezealot 19 points 3 years ago
unpopular opinion preinstalling any browser is wrong
quantenzitrone 29 points 3 years ago
i think it is very beneficial for the average user to have one of each common software category preinstalled
as long as you can uninstall everything
idiomaddict 9 points 3 years ago
Thatβs the lemmy echo chamber. Poll a hundred people on how to get a program onto a computer without a browser and Iβd be surprised if five people answered something other than a disk or that itβs impossible
TimeSquirrel 4 points 3 years ago
other than a disk
These days, they are probably not even going to answer with that. Optical media is almost dead now.
Kidplayer_666 1 point 3 years ago
Thumb drive then
Kecessa 3 points 3 years ago
Even saying "with a package manager" it's much easier to have a browser to make a search to know what you want to enter to install using the package manager!
I'm sure many Linux users would be dead in the water if they were provided a computer with a distro without a browser/GUI package manager and no alternative way to access the internet.
Perfide 4 points 3 years ago
Where the fuck would that be a popular opinion?
Quick! You need to install a program, but you can't remember the exact name of it. You have no browser installed nor a GUI package manager. What do you do?
Frozzie 1 point 3 years ago
There is no situation where you need to install a package while having no Browser installed.
My point is that you should install the browser you want, no have preinstalled programs you may not want or live without a browser.
Perfide 3 points 3 years ago
Okay, how are you going to install a browser if you don't know what to type? Sure, I know FF is Mozilla.Firefox, but not everyone does. And besides, I actually want Vivaldi(...only as an example) instead, which I don't know the package name for. Without a pre-existing browser or external help, how am I supposed to install Vivaldi?
I'm not disagreeing there should be options on OS setup, firefox being pre-installed with no input is barely better than Edge being pre-installed, but no browser at all by default is just stupid for most people. If we're going with the idea of options on setup, the no browser at all option should exist, but only if it's behind at least 1 but preferably 2 "Are you absolutely sure?" confirmation checks.
HappyToaster1911 2 points 3 years ago
That's a pretty bad take, people into tech seem to mostly use firefox, people who aren't probably don't care, and for the people who know baout it and prefer another, can well, just uninstall it, so why not just have firefox so its simpler for everyone?? Like, on Manjaro and Garuda I could do well with that, but what if I use Ubuntu? The browser I like the most is Vivaldi, witch isn't on the package manager, meaning that I need to download a browser to download another one instead of just using the one already in it to get it
Pantherina 2 points 3 years ago
If a Distro preinstalls the Torbrowser it is based. Or maybe a Firefox that is actually debloated and hardened, not just having fancy bookmarks and a custom start page (looking at you Fedora)
QuazarOmega 2 points 3 years ago
I think it's fine if you give the option to uninstall it, many users wouldn't know where to look to install the browser right away and they need access to the internet to find out (because they're not familiar with the command line), they probably have a phone to look stuff up, but that's bad user experience.
Otherwise a first run welcome screen that asks the user which browser they want to install out of a selection (including none) can be a good solution
Pantherina 6 points 3 years ago
This meme makes no sense. Why would Windows want that?
Surprisingly I dont get weird popups when installing Firefox
DuckGuy 6 points 3 years ago
"It's already installed... as a Snap package."
IuseArchbtw 5 points 3 years ago
I recently heard that manjaro cinnamon comes with Vivaldi pre-installed
Pantherina 2 points 3 years ago
Is vivaldi FOSS now? In tests by mike kuketz it had nonexistent Fingerprint protection and bad privacy settings OOTB
redcalcium 5 points 3 years ago
I think Manjaro devs accept, uh, sponsorship.
lemann 7 points 3 years ago
Not op, but nothing significant IMO unless you're a web developer (in which case it's worth considering using the dev edition instead) or just want the latest features.
The ESR on Debian gets updated reasonably frequently with backported security patches and bug fixes
Pantherina 4 points 3 years ago
Not all security issues get CVEs. Thats only the security parts. Its old as balls, and Firefox never had any breaking bugs for me, thats the "old as balls" part
pedz 3 points 3 years ago
I get better performance from the release version than from ESR. The ESR version in Debian has always been slower than the release version for me. Especially on YouTube.
EDIT: For those that doubt: https://www.reddit.com/...
nexussapphire 4 points 3 years ago
Someone should make a distro that is just all the annoying stuff in windows.
SpaceNoodle 3 points 3 years ago
Meanwhile I have to install links manually
ilinamorato 6 points 3 years ago
Report the sites to webcompat!
Might not do anything, but on the other hand it might!
Johnmannesca 1 point 3 years ago
Just install scoop and install packages in the terminal if you're bothering with Windows
HiddenLayer5 1 point 3 years ago
Yeah but sometimes it's the ESR version which is super slow to get feature updates. Though I suppose that's fair for distros intended for server or other enterprise applications.
MNByChoice 1 point 3 years ago
Why are you guys doing default installs? Setup you preseeds and get what you want.
LemmyIsFantastic -3 points 3 years ago
Edge, especially for work, is fantastic.
LemmyIsFantastic -1 points 3 years ago
Devops sites? What does that even mean lol?
I've never once had links take any sort of noticeable time to open outside of the scanner link/redirect. Which doesn't have to do with edge or outlook. You probably are conflating two issues.
meekah 2 points 3 years ago
Azure DevOps. Another Microsoft product.
No other browser does this, and it only happens when opening the link from outlook. Which does make sense to me because edge has some kind of outlook integration. Probably our incompetent network admin and weird ass network and AD situation does not help, but it's still a bunch of microsoft products that don't work properly together.
LemmyIsFantastic 0 points 3 years ago
I'm still convinced you are just noticing the redirect/link checker built into m365/ azure AD.
MagneticFusion 8 points 3 years ago path: 0 5545259 5545391 5545574, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 12
abbotsbury 19 points 3 years ago
What are those features?
0x4E4F 8 points 3 years ago
It's somewhat like Firefox used to be, cuztomizable UI and all that... a lot of menus with UI tweaks that just make your browser your own and make your life easier... it brings back what was taken from us when FF made some drastic changes.
HKayn 1 point 3 years ago
Vivaldi's toolbar can be customized just like Firefox, but you additionally also get a bottom bar and a sidebar to place toolbar buttons on.
Vivaldi has a Spotlight-like search bar you can open with F2 to quickly find a page in your history or type any browser command like hiding the UI. You can also string multiple commands together and add them as a toolbar button.
You can add websites to your sidebar too to open them in a slide-out window of sorts (basically the same thing as Opera GX's sidebar).
You can tile multiple tabs to open them in a split or grid view, which I haven't found a way to replicate on Firefox so far.
And as someone else already mentioned, I personally find installing CSS and JS mods to be a lot more accessible on Vivaldi.
linuxmemes
@lemmy.world
33145
2399
6376
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack users for any reason. This includes using blanket terms, like "every user of thing".
- Don't get baited into back-and-forth insults. We are not animals.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry of any kind will not be tolerated. This is an LGBTQ+-friendly community -- if that is a problem for you, you should leave.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn, no politics, no trolling or ragebaiting.
- Don't come looking for advice, this is not the right community.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, <loves / tolerates / hates> systemd, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
5. π¬π§ Language/ΡΠ·ΡΠΊ/Sprache
- This is primarily an English-speaking community. π¬π§π¦πΊπΊπΈ
- Comments written in other languages are allowed.
- The substance of a post should be comprehensible for people who only speak English.
- Titles and post bodies written in other languages will be allowed, but only as long as the above rule is observed.
6. (NEW!) Regarding public figures
We all have our opinions, and certain public figures can be divisive. Keep in mind that this is a community for memes and light-hearted fun, not for airing grievances or leveling accusations.
- Keep discussions polite and free of disparagement.
- We are never in possession of all of the facts. Defamatory comments will not be tolerated.
- Discussions that get too heated will be locked and offending comments removed.
Β
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't remove France.
go to feed...
linuxmemes
@lemmy.world
33145
2399
6376
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack users for any reason. This includes using blanket terms, like "every user of thing".
- Don't get baited into back-and-forth insults. We are not animals.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry of any kind will not be tolerated. This is an LGBTQ+-friendly community -- if that is a problem for you, you should leave.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn, no politics, no trolling or ragebaiting.
- Don't come looking for advice, this is not the right community.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, <loves / tolerates / hates> systemd, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
5. π¬π§ Language/ΡΠ·ΡΠΊ/Sprache
- This is primarily an English-speaking community. π¬π§π¦πΊπΊπΈ
- Comments written in other languages are allowed.
- The substance of a post should be comprehensible for people who only speak English.
- Titles and post bodies written in other languages will be allowed, but only as long as the above rule is observed.
6. (NEW!) Regarding public figures
We all have our opinions, and certain public figures can be divisive. Keep in mind that this is a community for memes and light-hearted fun, not for airing grievances or leveling accusations.
- Keep discussions polite and free of disparagement.
- We are never in possession of all of the facts. Defamatory comments will not be tolerated.
- Discussions that get too heated will be locked and offending comments removed.
Β
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't remove France.
go to feed...
Browsers are bloat.
-- average Arch user
save