Cyberpunk Rule

3 years ago by ranmagender to c/196

wreckedcarzz 122 points 3 years ago

Imagine only having one copy of the system so when a situation like this occurs, you lack the ability to automatically switch to a working one, re-download and retry, without danger of this occurring.

This was fixed a decade ago with Android. They could have literally taken the source code from aosp and added it, or at least converted it (if in different programming language), and never had this issue. It would cost $0 and minimal time. But no. That won't ever happen. It's built ford tough.

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alphapuggle 34 points 3 years ago

While the implementation of an A/B update system wouldn't be drag and drop from Android to a different OS, they absolutely could implement the same idea to prevent this issue.

The likely reason as to why is storage space, you need two copies of the system, while only one is running at a time. They probably put as little space into these infotainment systems as possible.

If they put more in new models, they'd then have to support two methods of updating the system. It's easier to tell the customer on the rare occasion that an error does happen "oops we made a fucky wucky it's on you to fix it"

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kogasa 15 points 3 years ago

There's no way storage space is the issue. It would cost pennies per car and take up no additional space or power. The size of map/gps data would dwarf the OS by an order of magnitude or more.

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alphapuggle 7 points 3 years ago

You're 100% right. It would be pennies for larger storage. However, that doesn't mean they wouldn't go for a smaller size to save those pennies.

I used to work on a car lot, and a disturbingly large number of cars had an SD card port that would only be used for map data. You had to purchase these cards from a dealer or the manufacturer specifically, and if you wanted map data the SD card had to be inserted. I saw this specifically on some Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Subaru models, though it wouldn't surprise me if Ford uses the same method.

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kogasa 2 points 3 years ago

They certainly wouldn't add more storage than they need. But "need" is a relative term. If having a bit more storage means you aren't bricking customer cars requiring expensive service, then you "need" the storage.

It's more likely that the update process itself is a bit more complicated than e.g. updating a phone, and unexpected errors in specific processes make it harder to guarantee the safety of the device. For example if an update fails because one of the devices failed to flash, one may not be able to easily re-flash it and it may indicate a hardware fault.

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wreckedcarzz 12 points 3 years ago

Yeah likely, and I'd be super pissed about this. You're (ford) telling me you cheap fucks couldn't be asked to install two like, shit, even cheap-ass comsumer-grade 100gb ssds or something at the cost of like $10 a pop, before 'economies of scale', in my fucking 50k vehicle. I want the tow bill comped, I want the repair comped, I want an equivalent rental vehicle comped for the entire duration of the repair, I want it in writing that if this shit happens again that I'm going to get the same treatment as I am now, and my time isn't free either so I want complementary maintenance the next time I'm in here; or I'm driving straight through the front window as soon as the repair is done, and I'm not stopping with the first vehicle I crash into.

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31337 3 points 3 years ago

Yeah, I've worked on embedded systems (some projects involving automotive and heavy machinery), and the amount of penny-pinching they used when selecting components was pretty crazy. On one project I worked on, they didn't want to spend an extra 30 cents for a microcontroller with more flash, so we had to be very cognizant of every byte we used. Flash was so tight, our firmware would only fit if we used the highest optimization setting on the compiler (making debugging very difficult).

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ShortFuse 6 points 3 years ago

That's the old A/B that requires 2x storage.

The new method uses snapshotting and compression:

https://source.android.com/...

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reverendsteveii 2 points 3 years ago

Cars cost tens of thousands of dollars. A 1tb ssd costs tens of dollars.

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wreckedcarzz 1 point 3 years ago

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czardestructo 28 points 3 years ago

I work on consumer electronic ear buds. Frigging ear buds, and we support this...

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user224 23 points 3 years ago

Even some decent modern Wi-Fi routers have such protection. There's working and backup partition. If a firmware update fails, it boots using the previous working partition.

This is a better explanation (in this case for Cisco Linksys EA3500):

Like several other Linksys devices, the EA3500 has a dual firmware layout: working and backup partitions. Unless you manually choose which partition by doing a manual uboot/tftp install, firmware flashes occur on the backup partition and the EA3500 shall reboot from the backup partition following from a firmware flash. The backup partition becomes the new working partition when the reboot was successful. The former working partition becomes the new backup partition.

Source: https://openwrt.org/toh/linksys/ea3500

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Oderus 4 points 3 years ago

Motherboards for years have a backup firmware just in case you fry the primary firmware.

This Ford issue is laughable.

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satans_crackpipe 20 points 3 years ago

it would cost $0

lol

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wreckedcarzz -8 points 3 years ago

Open-source code is, as the name implies... free for the taking. Slap a license and 'thank you' buried into the systems about menu and you're good to go.

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Demuniac 15 points 3 years ago

Converting it, testing it, implementing it, etc, is really not free to implement. It's no cost to obtain, but that doesn't make it 0 to implement.

It's no excuse, but it's not free.

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satans_crackpipe 3 points 3 years ago

Lol

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Lath 12 points 3 years ago

Ford is only focused on finding new ways of having your car break down in the middle of nowhere.

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Frozengyro 6 points 3 years ago

You don't earn the name 'found on road dead' without having to innovate once in awhile.

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thisbenzingring 4 points 3 years ago

Fix Or Repair Daily

eh my F250 is a beast and keeps on going. Only has broken down on me one time because of an oil pressure sensor. On a 7.3L diesel the oil flow is a must!

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princessnorah 3 points 3 years ago

Yeah, there are a few things that I’m okay with my car preventing me from driving, and oil pressure is absolutely one of them.

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spujb 101 points 3 years ago

this is exactly what henry ford wanted to happen i did a seance and checked in with him

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SpaceNoodle 47 points 3 years ago

Henry Ford when he learns that Jews are driving cars

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Kolanaki 71 points 3 years ago

I remember a few years back when farmers were in the news for using Russian hacks to get around this type of shit in their John Deere tractors. I thought, surely that won't become a problem for regular cars... That was back when I still had some faith left in humanity to overcome capitalism's bullshit.

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thisbenzingring 55 points 3 years ago

It was actually Ukrainians that provided the John Deere hacks.

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Jumuta 26 points 3 years ago

Heroes

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Ookami38 10 points 3 years ago

Russia only makes problems for Ukraine to solve, it appears. Lol

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kittenzrulz123 32 points 3 years ago

"tow truck" why on earth would a tow truck require smart components at all? This is multiple layers of stupidity and dystopian.

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key 44 points 3 years ago

I think it's steps for the tow truck operator to perform before they can tow the now-undriveable car. Like getting it in neutral, disabling parking break, maybe disconnecting batteries.

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kittenzrulz123 -1 points 3 years ago

Yeah that sounds completely unessesary to have such features when they can be done manually and probably with better compatibility (I'm guessing Ford tow trucks only connect to their proprietary standard)

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jasondj 3 points 3 years ago

Modern cars have some stupid functions in the form of nicities.

How are you going to put a car in neutral if it’s a push-button shift that’s unresponsive because the infotainment system has to boot for the transmission control module (probably for some stupid reason like being able to display errors like this).

My wife’s minivan has a push button shift. And automatic headlights. You want to go to the drive-in? Gotta hit the (pushbutton) park-brake to disable the auto headlights. And the radio will turn off every 30 minutes during the movie to save battery.

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kittenzrulz123 0 points 3 years ago

That's nice but truckers don't need that

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Toes 27 points 3 years ago

This should be a crime, punishable by total forfeiture of the company.

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AlfredEinstein 27 points 3 years ago

Your description sounds very aggressive.

#"🇺🇸 Nationalize the Auto Industry 🇺🇸 "

sounds happy and patriotic.

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EdibleFriend 7 points 3 years ago

Our country was founded on shooting at those who oppress us.

A little fire is at the very least patriotic.

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Zeshade 23 points 3 years ago

Does anyone know what the screen actually says? Just curious.

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Buffaloaf 16 points 3 years ago

It says something about call this 1-800 number for help and we'll send a tow truck if needed

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Zeshade 2 points 3 years ago

Thanks!

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Xatolos 7 points 3 years ago

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Zeshade 3 points 3 years ago

Thanks!

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Quexotic 21 points 3 years ago

Oh the turntables...

Reminded me of this old joke:

https://onthelineauto.com/...

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menemen 3 points 3 years ago

We need FOSC

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Quexotic 5 points 3 years ago

Well, there's already a market in rooting cars to unlock features. Why not?

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Basil 1 point 3 years ago

What kinda computer is this guy using

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Quexotic 3 points 3 years ago

This was written in the age of win 3.11. likely a 486 with 4mb ram and a math coprocessor.

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ADTJ 17 points 3 years ago

Could it be the update was to patch a safety recall issue and so without the update, the car isn't considered safe to drive?

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Ookami38 16 points 3 years ago

They need to have a solution in place other than brick your vehicle. Even if it only allows your nav to go to the nearest dealership or some shit. Will it be ignored? Yup, but at least I can get to my job. Or to my house where I can, ya know... Update.

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Hyperlon 1 point 3 years ago

Imagine being in the middle of a desert when this happens.

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reverendsteveii 1 point 3 years ago

Don't care. If I buy a car and your software makes the decision to disable it, fuck you forever and you'll never see another nickel from me. If you sold me a car that isn't safe to drive in the first place, fuck you forever and you'll never see another nickel from me.

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cupcakezealot 8 points 3 years ago

damn tesla needs one of those features

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Mac 8 points 3 years ago

Welcome to the new norm.

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andrew_bidlaw 7 points 3 years ago

Watch and see cops navigating the first vehicle to stop in ten years.

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user224 4 points 3 years ago

Do you mean something like this?: https://youtube.com/shorts/YFC0goatRTQ

Or maybe rather this?: https://youtu.be/lJL6Wkfs90M Alt: https://piped.video/lJL6Wkfs90M

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andrew_bidlaw 3 points 3 years ago

More like them overtaking the controls at the moment and driving you off the road, whatever there is a bush, a hole or a guarding rail with nor reason no care at all

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niktemadur 3 points 3 years ago

Cybertruck

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KaSPer 2 points 3 years ago

Paging Louis Rossmann.

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