It was so frustrating watching some people treat him like he was anything close to a real journalist. He's just the designated propagandist.
Eatspancakes84 123 points 3 years ago
Many issues with this headline, but one of them is the word journalist, which implies some form of neutrality. The headline should either be a L out a journalist that writes about antifa, or a pro-facism activist. I suspect from the context (Fox) that it’s the latter.
MacNCheezus 14 points 3 years ago
journalist, which implies some form of neutrality
Oh, my sweet summer child
MacNCheezus 6 points 3 years ago
The vast majority of journalists work for some sort of publication or news agency, in which they're beholden to the company owners' agenda and have to report to an editorial board, which decides what can and can not be published in accordance with their views.
You're thinking of independent journalists, of which there are very few.
TheSanSabaSongbird 1 point 3 years ago
Ok, the fact that you honestly believe this is how legitimate newsrooms work is both deeply disheartening and an indication of how little the average person knows about the news business.
Editors decide what gets published, not the editorial board which is an entirely different and unrelated body that traditionally has zero contact with the content side of things. In the business we say that there is a "firewall" between the editorial board and actual news content. The NYT or WaPo would have mass resignations of their reporters if either of their editorial boards tried to influence content.
Ownership is a bit different and obviously --as we know from the Murdoch empire-- can influence content, but in traditional operations they've always been very hands-off. It's a fact, for example, that Jeff Bezos doesn't care what the WaPo publishes and has no interest in it beyond as a business concern.
Editors do have control over content, but overwhelmingly they are concerned with doing a good job and furthering their careers and professional reputations. You're completely misunderstanding the incentive structure in mainstream news media. Outside of the extremist advocacy journalism ecosystems --mostly but not only on the far right-- no one has any incentive to push an agenda and risk ruining their career by getting something important wrong.
TheSanSabaSongbird 1 point 3 years ago
Unfortunately advocacy journalism is very much a legitimate type of journalism, just ask Glen Greenwald, who I fuckin' hate.
TacoButtPlug 100 points 3 years ago
It's crazy how many people just on this meme think antifa is an actual organization. 🤦
Viking_Hippie 28 points 3 years ago
Soros, Bill Gates and the Bilderbergs, I guess? Probably also that Davos guy who Alex Jones et al TOTALLY aren't fixated on for antisemitic reasons either, nuh-uh!
/s in case it isn't abundantly clear
Daft_ish 8 points 3 years ago
Do you have soro's number. I've been out here shilling just expecting a check to show up in the mail. He needs to keep better tabs on all of the internet and compensate people for their hard work
Viking_Hippie 4 points 3 years ago
I just collect my payment after the pussy hat knitting club but before the weekly baby murder barbecue. Don't want to get my check all greasy.
Sotuanduso -5 points 3 years ago
It's a movement, isn't it? That's still a form of organization.
RizzRustbolt 2 points 3 years ago
The NAACP?
pingveno -8 points 3 years ago
A movement can have members and leaders even without formal organizational hierarchy. It just won't look the same as something like a corporation, nonprofit, or government. The person who noticed that the Proud Boys were coming to town and rallied people to a counter-protest? Definitely a leader. The people who show up on a cold rainy Saturday instead of staying indoors with a warm cup of tea? Members. Just because membership and leadership is more amorphous doesn't mean it isn't there in some form.
iso 7 points 3 years ago
The person who noticed that the Proud Boys were coming to town and rallied people to a counter-protest? Definitely a leader
Nahh you got that wrong. What usually happens is that a lot of people who are into politics (which left-extreme people often are) hear about this at the same time (through some press release, some proud boys twitter account who's rallyin their followers, etc.).
From that point the information spreads over friendsgroups, small discords, tweets, whatsapps, in person, slowly but steadily.
Any left-extreme person who hears this immediately thinks "I'm mad, I wanna show those guys that they're not welcome". Granted, some of us think about much more extreme things, but back to the point. The first reaction from that thought is often "is there a counter protest?". People are then doing the same thing but the other way around, as now everyone is trying to find some tweet, event, whatsapp message screenshot, whatever, of someone saying where the meeting point for an event would be. If none are found, someones gonna create something, which is usuqlly someone who's got a lot of connections with other left-extremists. Often there's multiple people creating the same counterprotest, which gets super messy at times, but somehow everyone manages to meet up in some general spot.
Worst case you just have a bunch of friends groups going to the meeting spot of wherever the initial event is happening.
That's "the antifa". A massive network of friends and friends of friends of friends who are all pretty aligned in their political views (which is "fuck Nazis") but who often don't know more then 5 other antifacists.
NostraDavid 2 points 3 years ago
People are just nitpicking the meaning of the word Organization. Antifa is an organization in a very loose definition of the word. If you want to be more accurate, you'd call it a Network. Organizations (in the stricter sense) has a single leader and has a very tree-like structure with more power on top (like Corporations!), which Antifa obviously is not.
Though you're correct in that Antifa is a "movement".
InputZero -7 points 3 years ago
In my opinion it would be a movement if facism was the status quo. Given most people are discussing Western nations, which while adopting facism at an alarming pace; are not yet facist. Antifa is not a movement nor an organization. Since not being facist is the status quo and antifa means that you're not going to support facism, in my opinion antifa is the current "establishment" and being facist is an effort to move the status quo. Aka a movement.
HardNut -12 points 3 years ago
I find this comment thread horribly ironic, and I hope I can show you why without starting an argument because this is genuinely kind of funny.
Fascism is when a state achieves (or attempts to achieve) totalitarianism through corporatization. All corporations are chartered and controlled through the state, and private industry becomes corporatized.
One of the ways they did this was through legitimizing specific channels of distribution, and labeling all who take a more independent route as illegitimate. Farmers, for example, were coerced into selling their products to state distributors, and pressured out of independent channels. Likewise, farmers who weren't part of the state organization were often treated with suspicion and derision.
Basically, if you were a _____ and did _____ things, but were not part of the _____ organization, then you weren't a real ______ no matter how good you are at _____.
Anyway, antifa is a real thing that exists, and that's the thing people here are talking about. They're a group that has identifiable goals, and they work together under the label. It's really funny to me that so many here are appealing to "they're not even a real org" in the face of dissent, because that's one of the most fascist mind sets that exist commonplace today.
jayrhacker 6 points 3 years ago
There is a huge overlap between people who would participate in Antifa and Anarchists, so you can imagine the problems getting a structured organization setup and keeping on task and purpose.
HardNut 0 points 3 years ago
I'm sure that's part of it. Antifa is definitely not well structured, and anarchists could probably be opposed to any official organization.
Let me put it this way, the post talks about a journalist who investigates antifa, which the op of this comment chain mocked because they're not an organization. But, this is an argument of semantics, and the post didn't use that word to begin with. Regardless of what you call antifa, he's trying to investigate and see what they're about.
It's a very dishonest way to deride people. If you don't mind me asking, if you don't think the word organization is appropriate, what's better? I mean I just say group, can't really be wrong going that general but it also doesn't say much. Like, when you said "people who participate in Antifa...", what type of thing are those people participating in?
TheSanSabaSongbird 0 points 3 years ago
It's more of a cause or a movement than an organization. I guess I don't know why that should be difficult to understand.
Narauko -2 points 3 years ago
Organizations do not necessarily require structure, association is a synonym for a reason. Decentralized organizations and associations are a thing. Decentralized workers solidarity movements and co-op/community strengthening initiatives can be/are "organizing" even if no one is in charge. You don't need to be a member of a union or an official neighborhood association to be part of an organization, there just needs to be general or vague common intention among a group and something of a shared identity. You might not get as much done a fast when not structurally organized, but you also don't not exist if your not a card carrying member. I don't understand the desire to divorce Antifa from being an organization or even existing. It's like saying that the Deadheads aren't a real thing because no one was directing the vast majority of fans who packed up and followed the band across the country.
TheSanSabaSongbird 1 point 3 years ago
Oh so now you are arguing that deadheads were an organization too? Really? In what universe?
partner0709 -69 points 3 years ago
Lol you saying they are not? You are funny
hungryphrog 50 points 3 years ago
Would you like to tell me the name of the official antifa organisation?
SaltyIceteaMaker 38 points 3 years ago
Obviously its Antifa© inc. Everyone learns that in first grade🙄
Mr_Dr_Oink 88 points 3 years ago
I seem to recall seeing a video or reading an article where they mention that the media turned antifa into a sort of separate word to warp its meaning. Instead of saying anti fascist, which has a clear meaning, they shortened it and changed the pronunciation 'an teefa' (something to do with which syllable you emphasise) so they could distort its meani g and demonise the word to make people think it was bad.
So now people dont realise antifa means anti fascist which is surely a good thing to be, and instead, they fear antifa as some kind of terrorist group, which is almost the opposite of what it is.
The funny thing is, as an outsider to this, living in the UK, our media doesn't ever use the term, and when i heard it, my instinct was to look up its meaning. It's interesting to me that i won't know if i would have fallen for it if the media were using it in the same way over here to lead my understanding of its definition
LarmyOfLone 32 points 3 years ago
I think Antifa actually started in the UK even before the Nazi's. Eh actually not but they did fight against fascists in the UK as early as 1930.
The reason why we need antifa and why it's hated by the mainstream is because the establishment is notoriously bad at stopping fascism. There is a long history of it. So besides liberal antifa that uses legal means like suing the KKK out of existence, the autonomous antifa is actually needed for the continued working of our democracy.
PolandIsAStateOfMind 27 points 3 years ago
Antifa (Antifaschistische Aktion) under that name started in 1932 as action by the KPD to organise widest possible front against the nazis, in the face of SPD as a party being very reluctant to act against nazis. Many SPD members did joined, but as we know, their own party in reichstag made that futile.
Of course antifascist resistance is about as old as fascism or even older considering protofascists activity even before Mussolini coined the term, but the name itself is from 1932 KPD.
Viking_Hippie 15 points 3 years ago
Afaik, the first Antifa were a coalition of left wing groups in Italy fighting fascists in the 1920s. They didn’t necessarily use the term but they were the first active anti-fascists so that counts in my book 🤷
As a side note, they were left to fight both the fascists and the royalists alone, since the Italian Liberals refused to get involved until it was clear who would win and then joined the fascists.
LarmyOfLone 3 points 3 years ago
I think that is the lesson, liberals do not effectively fight against fascism because they are too desiring of orderly and calm and polite politics and too much powered by economic interests (bourgeois). So we actually rely on antifa as a social force. Neither the state nor the liberals will fight against it. At least that is my limited understanding of it, since this is never discussed about in mainstream media.
Viking_Hippie 2 points 3 years ago
liberals do not effectively fight against fascism because they are too desiring of orderly and calm and polite politics and too much powered by economic interests
Absolutely 100% correct.
So we actually rely on antifa as a social force.
We need to, yes.
Neither the state nor the liberals will fight against it.
Right you are again!
At least that is my limited understanding of it, since this is never discussed about in mainstream media.
Seems to me you understand it perfectly but yeah, the mainstream media is for-profit and owned by billionaires who are often friends with or at least have common interests with the fascists, so they have very logical, if despicable, reasons to be hands-off about it.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 5 points 3 years ago
But the shorthand and pronunciation Anteefa seems to be relatively new. I don't recall the specific word before 2016.
TheSanSabaSongbird 1 point 3 years ago
Yeah that's bullshit. There isn't some secret cabal that's in charge of US journalism anymore than there is in the UK. What really happens is that because the old news-media business models have been utterly destroyed by the Internet, there's a giant and never-ending competition for audience and everyone knows that sensationalism sells.
You have a similar problem in the UK but it's not as pronounced because the BBC is government funded and even though it's far from perfect, it does set a kind of baseline. Your other big news organizations are just as bad as in the US though. Your tabloids are actually a lot worse than ours, which is saying something.
Mr_Dr_Oink 1 point 3 years ago
It was donald trump himself that started it
And you know how.his followers hang on his every word. I mean, he literally incited a riot/assault on capitol.
I see your point, but i dont see how the old news being taken over by internet news changes who is in control of the narrative. I also dont think i was referring to any kind of "secret cabal."
I was only saying that i heard or read somewhere that antifa was demonised in the media, and thats why so many think they are terrorists. If you ask most americans what antifa means, they don't know. They only know the abbreviation 'antifa' and that they are scared of it.
jaamesbaxterr 67 points 3 years ago
Anti-antifa... That's just fascism with extra steps.
olbaidiablo 60 points 3 years ago
"Fascist journalist fears for life." I fail to see where the problem is. People would have been cheering this in 1945.
Pavidus 59 points 3 years ago
Someone mentioned antifa at work the other day, and I said, "Antifa? I'm in. Shitting on fascists has been an American pass time for a century or better."
The looks of shock and horror on my coworkers faces was quite the sight to behold.
KeefChief13 2 points 3 years ago path: 0 7159789 7172752, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1
Crass_Spektakel -12 points 3 years ago
Well, I can tell you, in Europe Extremist Voters switch without thinking twice between far left and far right.
Methods, Objectives and Goals are the same, just the arguments differ slightly.
Both hate the West, especially the US and Israel, both hate the way we live but without offering a better way. Both want to burn down the house just to see who survives. Only the Arguments differ, the left hate the people running their own society, the right hate the people running other society.
And always remember, Hitler was a National-SOCIALIST.
ElmarsonTheThird 4 points 3 years ago
The "Socialist" in the NSDAP is only a honeypot so they could claim ground and voters who leaned socialist without much thought ("I'm a mill worker like my father before me, we have always voted socialist. Buuut that National-Thing sounds nice"). Same with the "A" which stands for "Arbeiter" (Workers).
There's the same with the conservative party (CDU = Christdemokratische Union, Christ-Democratic Union) today. Lots of old people say "I'm a christian and that party has a C for 'Christianity' in its name." In fact, their regional party in Bavaria, the CSU is more conservative. And you have three guesses what their "S" is for.
aeharding 59 points 3 years ago
Be careful when you punch a fascist. You might hurt your hand/wrist. Best to read up ahead of time.
samus12345 43 points 3 years ago
I'm anti-anti-antifa.
InputZero 4 points 3 years ago
Stop it! Do you want another very long word? Cause that's how you get very long words. How do you think got the word, antidisestablishmentteroistism?! I already had to learn that word, I don't want to learn a longer one.
RizzRustbolt 4 points 3 years ago
Welcome to germanic linguistics 101.
TheSanSabaSongbird 1 point 3 years ago
While I understand what you are getting at, for the record that's not what linguistics is about at all.
pewgar_seemsimandroid -7 points 3 years ago
oh, so you're a hexbear alt?
Quadhammer 6 points 3 years ago
No they're antifa lmao. It's like being George Washington but without all the slave owning
pewgar_seemsimandroid 5 points 3 years ago
i didn't notice the extra anti
phoenixz 38 points 3 years ago
It's more than just "fascist journalist". Journalists report facts (at least that is what they're supposed to do), any "blah blah journalist" is just "blah blah"
Also, fuck this guy, he doesn't fear for his life, it's just a made up story so they can again shit on those they hate.
Dehydrated 12 points 3 years ago
"the CEO of Antifa" lmao
HipHoboHarold 7 points 3 years ago
I'm guessing that means this is also the dude who claimed people threw cement at him, when it was a milk shake.
Then they claimed the milkshake had cement in it, so people pointed out things like sugar would keep cement from hardening.
Then the cops said they had no reason to assume it was concrete, and no one suggested it was, despite them and the guy being the ones who said it was concrete.
HawlSera 2 points 3 years ago
Eyup, that's the guy. It was also around the time others on the right claimed that people were pouring gasoline into bags in order to make "Makeshift Molotv Cocktails"
When
- the whole point of a Molotov Cocktail is that it's a makeshift weapon that the proletariat will always have access to as it's just alcohol and fire
B) A plastic bag wouldn't make for a good molotov cocktail as it would just fucking disintegrate and couldn't be thrown that far of a distance, if any at all
HipHoboHarold 2 points 3 years ago
Also, the cloth hanging over on to the side of the bag could melt the plastic, and then catch fire
Or it might just not break and spread
I get the point of misinformation isn't that it needs to make sense, but some times I hear this stuff and wonder fucking why? At least try.
Harbinger01173430 1 point 3 years ago
I thought antiga was some terrorist organization until I read this meme...
Holzkohlen 18 points 3 years ago
Bash the fash!
mino 3 points 3 years ago
Reminds me of https://medium.com/...
cashews_best_nut -5 points 3 years ago
I get a strong taste of sick everytime I hear someone say "math" in singular/American-English.
I know it's simplified English but it sounds so fucking lazy and stupid.
TheSanSabaSongbird -1 points 3 years ago
You obviously know nothing about linguistics.
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StThicket 14 points 3 years ago
If you are against people who are against fascists, wouldn't that indirectly say you don't care about fascism? And that's how fascism gets a foothold. And with that logic, you indirectly support fascism.
Crass_Spektakel -9 points 3 years ago
The difference between the extreme wings is miniscule. Methods, Objectives and Goals are the same, just the arguments differ slightly.
In Germany half of the voters of the Ultra-Left Party "Linkspartei" went within one election to the Ultra-Right Party "Alternative für Deutschland". Even starnger, the AfD is financed by Putin who wants to recreate Stalinism, which is Ultra-Leftist, while the AfD wants to recreate a Führer-Cult which is Ultra-Right. And still both cooperate perfectly.
But don't think the US is better. While Linkspartei and AfD together are 15% in the US the equally Extremist-Trumpists are close to 50%.
People need to understand that the Extremists on the wings are closer to each other than to the middle. While the middle tries to better things in small steps the Extremists want to burn the house down with everyone inside and then see who survives.
Cowbee 10 points 3 years ago
Sorry, but this is just horseshoe-theory Enlightened Centrist nonsense.
Methods? No. The far-right relies on terror, fear, and explicit power structures such as a police state to maintain power. Leftists oppose such structures, even on the ultra-left.
Objectives? Absolutely not. Right-wingers seek to maintain Capitalism, the far-right seeks to implement fascism as a reactionary protection of Capitalist hierarchy, complete with racial and gender hierarchy. The extreme left, ie Anarchists and Communists, seek a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society based on horizontal power structures. Completely different.
Goals? Same as objectives.
Horseshoe theory is absolute nonsense, and is used to protect the status quo even if the status quo must be radically changed.
Crass_Spektakel -1 points 3 years ago
Stalin and Pol Pot and Saddam used mostly the same methods as Hitler and as Pinochet and just like the Taliban.
They wanted total power to reform the society to their day dreams. There is not much difference if you call your Economy Plan "Five Year Plan" or "Maximale Kriegswirtschaft". In the end everyone gets under the foot of the Big Brother, the Grosser Führer, вождь woschd (Yes, Stalin let himself call Führer as did several other Extremist leaders).
We need to learn that the Extremists are much further away from the middle than the parties of the middle to each other. But also the Extremists are much closer to themselves.
Even Trump and Putin show a lot of those methods and while Trump dreams of US Fascism and Putin dreams of Reviving Stalinism their Objectives are just the same: Total power for themselfes.
Oh, I hear you already screaming "But they weren't Socialists/Fascists" - well, they were part of the Socialist International, they called themselves Socialists and people travelled there to see Socialism. "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
The Way less extreme people defend themselves from the more extreme people is just "But they weren't true right/left wing. They were something else!" - Boy, I am so tired of it. If 99% if your ventures into Extremism always end the same then I see a pattern that the results will ALWAYS be the same.
And seeing how easily East Germans nowadays change from Ultra-Left to Ultra-Right and visa versa I say: Proof by Observation in the Wild.
I am not even talking about the US where 90% of the people simply don't even understand what left, right, middle, liberal and Extremism means. When giving a kid free health care is socialism and people think free voting is disrespectable liberalism.
Cowbee 1 point 3 years ago
This is even more bullshit, lmao. The only leftist you listed was Stalin, every single one of the others is a far-right fascist that oversaw a Capitalist economy. That includes Putin, who is reactionary. Even then, many call Stalin red-fash, and they aren't entirely wrong either.
Additionally, if you think reactionary changes after states fall is because the far left and far right are similar, then again, you don't understand historical trends or movements. These are reactionary movements to a large-scale failure.
Again, this is nothing but horse-shoe theory nonsense, it's equivalent to astrology in validity but far more dangerous politically.
Here's a quick example: which is better, an extreme antiracist, or an extreme racist? In your eyes, both are equally bad. Radicalism is not bad alone, neither is extremism. Each view must be judged on a case by case basis.
Crass_Spektakel 0 points 3 years ago
Whenever a Left-Extremist does something stupid his buddies just claim "Well, he wasn't Left anyway. Lets just pretend he was a Nazi instead, haha."
Brilliant. But easy to see through.
The Right-Extremist takes peoples property and life because they are the wrong race. The Left-Extremists takes peples property without reason and life because we wasn't left enough.
TheSanSabaSongbird 4 points 3 years ago
I don't think Lemmy is ready to hear that kind of thing.
sounddrill 2 points 3 years ago
Extreme wings sounds like a crispy chicken dish
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Disinfect056 -12 points 3 years ago path: 0 7174678, hotness: undefined, score: -12, children: 4
Cowbee 14 points 3 years ago
Antifa is antifascist.
Antifa opinion: fascism is bad and must be opposed at every opportunity.
Fascist opinion: extreme Nationalism, the state and the populace must be as one living organism, the enemy must be powerful enough to unite against and weak enough to feel superior, extreme statist Capitalism must take place, all rights and freedoms must be curbed in the name of an almighty state, and the state is absolute.
These do not match up in any way.
occhionaut 3 points 3 years ago
Youre right about one thing; the opinions of a fascist is worth less than worm shit
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tatterdemalion -18 points 3 years ago
Anti-antifa does not subscribe to the law of the excluded middle, so double negation elimination does not apply.
EDIT: This was a math joke, but I'm proud that it seems to have gone over so many heads.
Viking_Hippie 22 points 3 years ago
It kinda does since, despite GOP talking points to the contrary, Antifa is not a terrorist group or even a group at all. It's a movement with the sole purpose of opposition to fascism.
At best, being anti-antifa is being pro-fascist and the difference between that and being a fascist is miniscule if existent.
kameecoding 7 points 3 years ago
Is this some enlightened centrism shit? Lmao
Aaron -19 points 3 years ago
I mean that would make sense if Antifa had anything to do with fascism. It's just one of many movements wearing labels that intentionally misrepresent it's members.
It's like being anti-Patriot act and then others claiming that you're against patriotism.
You're playing into their hands.
JasonDJ 16 points 3 years ago
Love this argument.
You wouldn’t know a fascist if it grabbed you by the pussy.
And that’s like saying “If Black Lives Matter were actually black” or something. Antifa isn’t a group, person, or organization…it’s an idea. Much like BLM or Occupy.
The real problem is that the idea ends up losing focus as it gains support, and then it gets spread out too far, and then it dies. Happens nearly every time.
Aaron -9 points 3 years ago
Love this argument.
Me too!
You wouldn’t know a fascist if it grabbed you by the pussy.
You're correct. I wouldn't. Because I don't have one.
Antifa isn’t a group, person, or organization…it’s an idea.
Tell that to it's supporters.
Much like BLM or Occupy.
Wrong again.
The real problem is that the idea ends up losing focus as it gains support, and then it gets spread out too far, and then it dies. Happens nearly every time.
Well unfortunately this one persists.
CileTheSane 3 points 3 years ago
Tell that to it’s supporters.
Okay, find me one.
HipHoboHarold 2 points 3 years ago
BLM and Occipy aren't organizations. There is a BLM organization. But that's like if I created an organization called Feminism. That wouldn't make Feminism an organization. That just means there's an organization based on the movement.
Feel free to take a seat.
DragonTypeWyvern 7 points 3 years ago
There are two separate equations. The third panel shows the negatives cancelling.
anarchotaoist -28 points 3 years ago
Antifa = antifascist like The Democratic Republic of North Korea is democratic.
Flip again.
DriftinGrifter 8 points 3 years ago
Nah you wrong lil cuz
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot -35 points 3 years ago
By that logic people who are against Focus on the Family are against families. You don't get to own a concept just by putting it in your name.
CileTheSane 30 points 3 years ago
You don't get to own a concept just by putting it in your name.
Nobody put it in their name. There is no "antifa" group. "Antifa" is a boogyman so that the far right can ignore what people are saying by labeling it "antifa".
explodicle 10 points 3 years ago
I'm against Mothers Against Drunk Driving but I'm anti drunk driving.
CurlyMoustache -11 points 3 years ago
Ouch! You should stop applying logic to anything. Forever.
AI_toothbrush -40 points 3 years ago
Not really there are anti antifa centrists and leftists that are simply against extremist movements. At least where i live antifa is pretty militant so people basically group it with the fascists which is pretty ironic if you think about it. A long time ago i was also anti antifa but seeing the lenghts that "conservatives" go to fuck up everything we love im also swinging to a more violent leftism.
partner0709 -43 points 3 years ago
You would think so, but the people on my region that call themselfs "antifa" are fasist themselves. No tolerant on who you are or how you look if you are a "white straight male". So yea, fuck the antifa organization. Im all anti facism starting with them.
Samsy 19 points 3 years ago
Where I came from it's the right wings, who wants you believe antifa is a criminal organisation which is far more extremist and radical than themselves.
This is just propaganda. Sure leftists use the term "antifa" more than the average not extremist people but this has nothing to do with the fact, that everyone who is against fascism is an antifa.
tl;dr: Sorting the "antifa" wording to the "baddies" is rightwing propaganda.
Sabre363 1 point 3 years ago
According to Wikipedia (I know, but it is a protected article), antifa is a loose organization of autonomous groups that use both non-violent and violent means. Based on that last part alone, I would say that is perfectly reasonable to NOT identify as antifa even if one generally agrees with their agenda.
As for vilifying the opposition, that does seem like just the thing the right wing would do to avoid taking responsibility for their own stupidity.
KeenFlame 10 points 3 years ago
You just say fuck fascists, that is antifa, then you say fuck antifa that means fuck yourself? It is very simple to understand. If you are against fascism you are already antifa. Then stop. No need to fuck any more. You are the fascist and then fuck fascism because anti fascism is bad to your fascism but you hate fascism? Good luck with the self fucking puzzle
CileTheSane 24 points 3 years ago
At least where i live antifa is pretty militant
You're full of shit. Show me an article of your "militant antifa". If it's as bad as you say someone will be reporting on it.
CurlyMoustache 15 points 3 years ago
An "anti-anti fascist centrist". What the hell!?
AnarchoSnowPlow 9 points 3 years ago
Centrist Nazis, you know, like "I don't want to kill them all, I just want them to.... Not... Be... Here... Anymore..."
Cowbee 16 points 3 years ago
But their methods were a result of their material conditions, and resulted in the liberation of Black Americans from segregation. Do you not equally take fault with the white moderates who opposed ending segregation and used disapproval of their methods as rhetoric?
Unfortunately, when protests get extreme, there is inevitably some level of violence, whether that be to people or property. It is the responsibility of the state to prevent it from getting this bad. People don't just think "hmm, today I will do some violence," violence erupts as a consequence.
Bytemeister 7 points 3 years ago
Why can't the oppressed peacefully get their rights from their oppressors?
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.
hungryphrog 28 points 3 years ago
Yeah, Hitler would have stopped if somebody just asked him nicely. I don't like violence either, but you can't defeat fascism without actions.
CileTheSane 24 points 3 years ago
I will never take a "movement" seriously that uses vandalism to get a message across.
"I'm all for trying to protect people and save lives, but you used vandalism!" Clutches pearls in a death grip
CileTheSane 3 points 3 years ago
Considering Antifa isn't a group, the same number of people who have been saved by Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny.
If you're asking whose life has been saved by protests and property damage then I direct you to the Civil Rights movement.
Cowbee 14 points 3 years ago
Do you think people normally resort to mass murder in protest of, say, slightly decreased toilet paper thickness? If there's an issue that is so pressing that there's actually mass murder, then the State is an utter failure for not addressing said issue before it got to that point, and is almost certainly a fascist system.
This is just a strawman.
CileTheSane 3 points 3 years ago
That's quite the slippery slope fallacy. I replied to your comment of:
I don’t support fascisms, but I also don’t support violence and property damage to get the message across. I will never take a “movement” seriously that uses vandalism to get a message across.
Which at no point mentions mass murder. "Oh, you support people protesting? What about BLOWING UP THE PLANET IN PROTEST?! Is THAT okay then?"
The fact that you equate property damage with mass murder really says a lot about you.
cypherpunks 17 points 3 years ago
I also don’t support violence and property damage to get the message across
so, you condemn the boston tea party, right?
I will never take a “movement” seriously that uses vandalism to get a message across.
what's your favorite successful social movement from history that didn't use any vandalism to get a message across?
tocopherol 7 points 3 years ago
We live under a hostile occupation by security forces employed by the wealthy class, there are deaths everyday due to the systems maintained by wealth and greed.
StraySojourner 7 points 3 years ago
One is an attempt to overthrow democracy and install a fascist theocratic dictatorship. The other is protesting directly against that. While you may not agree with their methods, which is frankly childish and placing the responsibility for our social climate in the laps of the oppressed, you cannot in good faith smile smugly and say "same".
KpntAutismus -51 points 3 years ago
this is the kind of black and white thinking lemmy does best.
EDIT: i retract this statement. i was wrong
i was severely misinformed about what antifacism is. i was under the impression that "the antifa" was a group by itself instead of a mindset.
KpntAutismus -29 points 3 years ago
i hate fascists with a passion, but i might not agree with how antifa acts. i do not have any experience with the group itself, i might even agree with them.
for example, i do not like how the last generation glued themselves to streets. that doesn't make me a climate denier, does it?
EDIT: it seems i misunderstood what antifa is. i always saw it as "the group of violent extremist protesters that throw rocks and light up cars"
again, i am fully for doing everything i can against fascists. but violent protests don't contribute, all it does is make your movement the next boogeyman.
crispy_kilt 37 points 3 years ago
I'm not pro Hitler, but did they really have to bully the poor man to suicide?
- @KptnAutismus, probably
ComfortableRaspberry 31 points 3 years ago
There is no organization Antifa. It's an ideology. So if you are against the ideology of anti fascism, what are you for?
KpntAutismus -28 points 3 years ago
i am against throwing rocks at police and lighting cars on fire in the name of antifascism. you don't get taken seriously if you're the one comitting arson.
CyberEgg 24 points 3 years ago
There is no singular group called "antifa". It's a movement of loosely (at best) interconnected but independent, antifascist groups.
Also, we need all these groups. It's them who usually organize rallies against racism, fascism, antisemitism, inhuman law proposals, et cetera. Also they organize all sorts of other actions against alt right, far right and (neo-)nazis, like disrupting their rallies and standing in the way of goon squads.
Antifa groups are damn important.
tryptaminev 16 points 3 years ago
Its not "the group".If you look in left and right wing violence in most countries you'll see a huge disparity, even after the right wing police has significantly biased the statistics. Most people in Antifa groups just go to demos, organize workshops and put political stickers up.
Thats alle the stuff Fox wants to villify, because they want people to be fascists.
KpntAutismus -19 points 3 years ago
i have picked the side that's stopping fascists. but the enemy of my enemy isn't automatically my friend. i do not respect movents who are known for committing arson and battery regularly.
Quadhammer 11 points 3 years ago path: 0 7141095 7142179 7142318 7143631, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 2
crispy_kilt 8 points 3 years ago
but violent protests don’t contribute
There is no alternative to fighting fascists with violence. You can't have a nice talk with someone who is gunning down Jewish persons. You just shoot them in the face.
Someone supports fascists who want to genocide a group of people? Burning down their car is less than they deserve.
I invite you to learn more about the holocaust. The suffering cannot be put into words. There is no means too drastic to prevent something like it to ever happen again.
KpntAutismus -2 points 3 years ago
let me rephrase. violence not directed at fascists doesn't contribute.
i was referring to innocent people's property being destroyed.
if someone arsons a nazi, that's perfectly reasonable to me.
YeetPics 3 points 3 years ago
Might not agree with how antifa acts
I have no experience
^^^ this pattern shows up right before you make a poorly thought out comment. If you don't have experience with something I'd expect your comment to be a question for someone who has.
Viking_Hippie 28 points 3 years ago
Here's a list of The 14 common characteristics of fascism. Note that the GOP and their propaganda outlets such as Faux News exhibit every single one of them.
THAT'S what it means to be a fascist.
Viking_Hippie 2 points 3 years ago
Yeah, it's so weird! Such coincidence very wow!
DragonTypeWyvern 5 points 3 years ago
All I see is "There is no record of this comment."
Pretty weird, considering I only bother blocking fascists. Wonder why they're interested in this topic.
TheSanSabaSongbird 1 point 3 years ago
Infamous is the word you're looking for.
PolandIsAStateOfMind 15 points 3 years ago
Quoting Georgi Dimitrov:
"Fascism is not a form of state power "standing above both classes – the proletariat and the bourgeoisie," as Otto Bauer, for instance, has asserted. It is not "the revolt of the petty bourgeoisie which has captured the machinery of the state," as the British Socialist Brailsford declares. No, fascism is not a power standing above class, nor government of the petty bourgeoisie or the lumpen-proletariat over finance capital. Fascism is the power of finance capital itself. It is the organization of terrorist vengeance against the working class and the revolutionary section of the peasantry and intelligentsia. In foreign policy, fascism is jingoism in its most brutal form, fomenting bestial hatred of other nations.... The development of fascism, and the fascist dictatorship itself, assume different forms in different countries, according to historical, social and economic conditions and to the national peculiarities, and the international position of the given country."
meowMix2525 6 points 3 years ago
confused tucker carlson face
memes
@lemmy.ml
56688
14852
4822
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
go to feed...
memes
@lemmy.ml
56688
14852
4822
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
go to feed...
Well yeah Andy Ngo does literally hang out with fascists so that's a given lol
save