My mom finally told me why our crazy Christian grandparents don't talk to me anymore

3 years ago by EinatYahav to c/atheism

Wed Jan 17 16:55:57 2024 UTC by CrazyPaya234

On an alt because my brother knows about my main, and I don't want this attention to come towards my parents and make it to my grandparents [somehow]

I never had a relationship with my grandparents from either side of my family. On my father's side, they died before I was born, and on my mother's I barely ever saw them. And when I did, it seemed as though they had no intensions of speaking or interacting with me. I was at home for the longer weekend because my parents needed help cleaning out the attic, and in one of the old boxes there was a old picture of my grandmother and my mom when she was younger. The picture got me thinking about why my mother's grandparents always had acted so strange around me, as if they were avoiding me entirely. I brought the subject up to my mother while we were cleaning up the attic, and she told me why. She told me that my grandparents had always been hyper-religious, specifically catholic. This came as no surprise as I had deduced such from various mannerisms they had shown in the little time I had meet them. She finally said that the reason my grandparents didn't want to be around me was because I was left handed.

WHAT.

She explained further that the left-hand had been interpreted as the devil's hand as a catholic superstition. Because of this, my grandparents had always been wary of me, which grew out to them avoiding having a relationship with me entirely. I'm at a loss for words as to how these insane traditions continue to be prevalent in religious circles, especially in older individuals. It saddens me that despite how Christians often claim to be a welcoming community to all people, that many exclusive and elitist traditions continue to be practiced. I hope as time goes on, we open our eyes to realize how absolutely batshit insane these traditions, and maybe religions as a whole, really are.

themeatbridge 169 points 3 years ago

Sounds like you were better off never interacting with those nutjobs. Good for your mom protecting you from their crazy, because that is the sort of thing that would leave a scar on an impressionable young mind.

path: 0 7501280, hotness: undefined, score: 169, children: 2

Frozengyro 28 points 3 years ago

Like being forced to be right handed, which causes long term problems like stuttering.

path: 0 7501280 7506878, hotness: undefined, score: 28, children: 1

iknowitwheniseeit 14 points 3 years ago

My wife's mom was left handed but forced to use her right hand to write.

Anyway, she died of a degeneratieve nerve disorder which slowly took away her ability to control her muscles, while her brain reminded intact. Really terrible. Her right hand was among the last part of her body to lose control, so she was able to write after she lost the ability to speak.

So by pure chance at least one person benefitted from these crazy anti-leftie ideas. (She could just as easily have lost her ability to use her right hand first, which would have been a horrible twist of fate.)

path: 0 7501280 7506878 7507506, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 0

BradleyUffner 126 points 3 years ago

On an alt because my brother knows about my main, and I don't want this attention to come towards my parents and make it to my grandparents [somehow]

Dude, there are like 27 people total on Lemmy. I think he's going to figure it out. 🤔

/S

path: 0 7529595, hotness: undefined, score: 126, children: 5

bhamlin 43 points 3 years ago

There are dozens of us! DOZENS!

path: 0 7529595 7531312, hotness: undefined, score: 43, children: 0

Klear 27 points 3 years ago

Why the /s? I ran into my sister a couple of times already. First time she recognised my nick, second she didn't and quoted my own comment back to me in real life because it was funny. I just told her to check the username when I recognised it.

path: 0 7529595 7530623, hotness: undefined, score: 27, children: 2

Slovene 33 points 3 years ago

Your sister recognised your WHAT?! ... Oh, sorry, I read that wrong. Nevermind, carry on.

path: 0 7529595 7530623 7530944, hotness: undefined, score: 33, children: 1

tmyakal 13 points 3 years ago

What are you posting, step-brother?

path: 0 7529595 7530623 7530944 7535859, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 0

Esqplorer 24 points 3 years ago

This is a reddit repost. I know you posted the /s indicator, but just for clarity since this is the top comment, I think it's worth pointing out.

path: 0 7529595 7530601, hotness: undefined, score: 24, children: 0

jordanlund 96 points 3 years ago

So much of Catholocism is extra-Biblical it's NUTS.

For example... the whole bit about no meat on Fridays. It had such a cultural impact that this is why restaurants do fish and chowder specials on Fridays.

There is absolutely no Biblical basis for it, but try telling that to a devout Catholic.

https://www.archspm.org/....

path: 0 7501393, hotness: undefined, score: 96, children: 32

Xariphon 48 points 3 years ago

Also the reason priests can't marry has nothing to do with Jesus being celibate* and everything to do with medieval inheritance laws and making sure church land never leaves church ownership.

*In fact (assuming he existed at all) Jesus almost certainly was not celibate. You pretty much could not be taken seriously as a teacher in Judaism in that time period unless you were married. (Who tf was getting married at Caana and why would it have been his problem that they were out of wine if he was just another guest? But if he was the one getting married, well...)

path: 0 7501393 7502783, hotness: undefined, score: 48, children: 8

Buddahriffic 26 points 3 years ago

Yeah, if he was real, he seemed to be pretty close to Mary of Magdolin (or whatever the place was), who was a prostitute during a time when celibacy wasn't really celebrated. I wouldn't even rule out him having kids.

Also Protestantism was a thing because of how corrupt the Catholic church got. They needed the Crusades funded, so they offered forgiveness for sins in return for either service in the Crusades or a financial donation in lieu of service. Then over time, that just became another thing that could be bought whenever, frequently after someone's death, which is fucked up on another level because people were guilted into paying for the souls of their loved ones so they could get into heaven even if they didn't confess in time (which they might have, or they might have lived a good life, but if you want to be sure to see grandpa after you die, better pay up just to be safe).

All the signs are there that Christianity is just a scam, I wish everyone could see it as well as understand that there's secular reasons to not do evil shit, it's just not as arbitrary about defining what is and isn't evil.

path: 0 7501393 7502783 7503292, hotness: undefined, score: 26, children: 6

Xariphon 20 points 3 years ago

The more I read the Bible, and the more I read about the Bible, the more utterly laughable it becomes to me that anyone takes Christianity seriously.

path: 0 7501393 7502783 7503292 7505767, hotness: undefined, score: 20, children: 3

Seleni 8 points 3 years ago

The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself. — Richard Francis Burton

path: 0 7501393 7502783 7503292 7505767 7513534, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0

Odd_so_Star_so_Odd 5 points 3 years ago

They made up their own story because they didn’t like the original with its reality of there being no afterlife + hell being a graveyard on earth for people mourning those they failed to respect, honor and love in life / heaven being a place on earth accessed via a mindset of what essentially boils down to communism - all of which is hard to exploit for power and profit without some keypoint-switcheroos…

path: 0 7501393 7502783 7503292 7505767 7515085, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

rottingleaf 3 points 3 years ago

It's actually the opposite for me - it has grown into an amazingly elaborate culture - but believing in it as in being a believer is, yes, strange.

path: 0 7501393 7502783 7503292 7505767 7528938, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

ThePowerOfGeek 10 points 3 years ago

According to some sources she wasn't a prostitute. The dark ages era or medieval era church just cast her in that role, partly because they wanted to make Jesus mother look even more holy and important, partly because they felt Mary Magdolin was seen as too important by Christians, and partly because it would make her a useful patsy for a story about Jesus forgiving the sinner.

path: 0 7501393 7502783 7503292 7516051, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 1

rottingleaf 3 points 3 years ago

On the other side it is an important part of Christianity that everything is part of the divine intention or something, especially about the lowest being the most virtuous etc.

path: 0 7501393 7502783 7503292 7516051 7528930, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

rottingleaf 2 points 3 years ago

Not in all Christian confessions priests can't marry even.

path: 0 7501393 7502783 7528891, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

Addition 29 points 3 years ago

My favorite extra-biblical notion in Catholicism is their weird veneration of Mary. Catholics have this belief that Mary was this divine demi-god that was not only a sinless, flawless, human being, but also stayed a virgin her whole life. Despite the fact that the Catholic Bible literally says that she had other kids with Joseph and that Jesus had brothers.

It's this super bizarre JK Rowling-ization of the Bible that a council unilaterally declared, like, 400 years after Jesus. There's no mention of any of the shit they claim Mary did in the actual Bible yet all Catholics I've ever met vehemently defend these belief.

path: 0 7501393 7502018, hotness: undefined, score: 29, children: 9

Xariphon 14 points 3 years ago

Because they can't admit they have a goddess cult baked into their supposedly monotheistic religion.

Of course that's what happens when your entire religion is the accumulation of thousands of years of marketing scams and cultural assimilation.

path: 0 7501393 7502018 7502717, hotness: undefined, score: 14, children: 1

rottingleaf 1 point 3 years ago

We are not rational creatures. Animals actually. It's not a goddess cult, it's the goddess cult perpetuating itself.

path: 0 7501393 7502018 7502717 7529036, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

Dagwood222 10 points 3 years ago

I was taught that when the Church was converting the pagans, they grabbed a lot of pagan beliefs/rituals and repurposed them. It was just easier to turn Mary into the local Goddess than it was to eradicate the Goddess completely. See Yukle logs and the Easter bunny.

path: 0 7501393 7502018 7505488, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 1

rottingleaf 2 points 3 years ago

It's funny, though, that from converted natives such things went back to descendants of white colonists.

path: 0 7501393 7502018 7505488 7528995, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

mightyfoolish 3 points 3 years ago

I don't know many Catholics. I would appreciate if you could explain some of the things Catholics believe Mary did that Protestants dispute.

path: 0 7501393 7502018 7506995, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 4

Addition 12 points 3 years ago

Sure! I was raised Methodist protestant and my wife Catholic. Neither of us are practicing any more. One grain of salt I'll add to this is that Protestant beliefs vary WIDELY on a lot of subjects, so this is going off my own experience. This is all about Mary the mother of Christ, not to be confused with Mary Magdalene.

Catholics and Protestants both believe that Mary was a virgin when she had Jesus, but Catholics believe that Mary never had sex in her entire life. Protestants are more willing to accept that Mary was not a virgin her whole life and went on to have more children. In fact in both bibles, his brothers are named: James, Joseph (Joses), Jude (Judas), and Simon. Note that these are not necessarily the same as the apostles but they are mentioned in both the Gospels of Mark and Matthew. It is also mentioned that Jesus has sisters. The Catholic interpretation is that these are not literal siblings, but perhaps other family. (The Catholic assertion doesn't check out in the original greek btw).
Catholics have a concept called "Original Sin", which all people are said to be cursed with due to Adam and Eve's fuck ups. This Original Sin is why we commit sin at all. This is another Catholic extra-biblical concept. Mary, however, is "Free from Original Sin" for reasons that are never explained, and that's why she was chosen to carry Jesus. Because according to Catholicism, Mary was literally perfect and never did any sin in her entire life. Protestants generally don't believe in the concept of Original Sin at all, and subsequently believe that Mary was just a regular poor girl.
The Veneration of Mary and the other Saints is another extra-biblical Catholic special. TL;DR: If you check enough boxes and the Church has enough political will, you can posthumously be awarded Sainthood which a pagan would interpret as being elevated to the status of a minor god. Saints are a whole different class of person in Catholic cannon. Not only are they getting into Heaven first, they apparently can appear to people through miracles, and its certified Catholic kosher to worship saints as you would Jesus or God himself. Its not un-typical for Catholic households to have literal shrines dedicated to specific saints, and to pray to saints directly. Ironically they are usually praying to the saint as some sort of divine middleman because for some reason Catholics are afraid of praying to God directly. Mary is considered even better than a saint, so think all the above x100. More so than saint shrines, its common for Catholic households to have shrines dedicated to Mary. You also may have heard of the "Hail Mary"; it is an actual prayer. If you've never heard or participated in one, look up a video, its unironically like a cult chant. Seeing it in person is extremely bizarre if you aren't already familiar with it.

Protestants do not recognize the Veneration of any thing or person beyond the Holy Trinity. Worshiping saints by praying to them is considered blasphemy. The creation and worship of shrines to anything other than the Trinity is considered Idol Worship, which is a form of blasphemy. All of this extends to Mary. Worshiping or praying to Mary is not ok. Protestants also don't have nearly so many cult chants and prefer to improv praying directly to God but that's another rabbit hole.

3a. I don't feel like I got across how important Mary is to Catholics. Mary in Catholic lore is like a fuckin super saint. She has titles like "Masterwork of God", "Mother of the Church", "Queen of Heaven", Etc. She "appears" to dozens of other people who go on to become Saints. She was prayed to widely during the Black Death, has entire churches devoted to just her, and has a specific shrine in literally every single Catholic church on Earth. In Protestant lore, Mary is not much more than a footnote.

This is getting pretty long winded at this point but you get the idea. This is only the tip of the iceberg with Protestant v Catholic btw, they are astoundingly different in doctrines and practices while believing a lot of the same core bullet points.

path: 0 7501393 7502018 7506995 7509614, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 3

Zorg 6 points 3 years ago

Long, but an interesting read; thanks!

path: 0 7501393 7502018 7506995 7509614 7513267, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

Cruxifux 5 points 3 years ago

The saint thing is so wild and hilarious to me. If you’re interested you should google Carlo Acutis, who is the patron saint of social media and the internet.

Hilarious.

path: 0 7501393 7502018 7506995 7509614 7514650, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

mightyfoolish 5 points 3 years ago

Thank you for all of that information. I love reading this kind of stuff. Growing up in the Midwest, I always heard that Jesus had cousins, and possibly one brother so this was interesting. It is surprising to hear how Mary can be treated so differently in two branches of Christianity.

Once again, thank you for this post.

path: 0 7501393 7502018 7506995 7509614 7516919, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

Stovetop 26 points 3 years ago

path: 0 7501393 7502159, hotness: undefined, score: 26, children: 1

rottingleaf 2 points 3 years ago

It's not really surprising that having a wrong sword\dagger\wine goblet\handjob hand was considered sinister among Romans

path: 0 7501393 7502159 7528966, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

partial_accumen 17 points 3 years ago

The reason for eating fish today is money making in the past.

"Fishermen were hurting. So much so that when Henry's young son, Edward VI, took over in 1547, fast days were reinstated by law — "for worldly and civil policy, to spare flesh, and use fish, for the benefit of the commonwealth, where many be fishers, and use the trade of living.""

path: 0 7501393 7501830, hotness: undefined, score: 17, children: 0

OpenStars 12 points 3 years ago

Its origins in worshiping the fish god "Dagon" are... interesting to say the least.

But it is by far the only example.

Easter is reputedly (I heard - ofc really who knows) the name of a mesopotamian sun god's wife, where the worshipers would have an orgy with temple priestesses/prostitutes and then the next year do human sacrifices of the babies born from the previous years orgy. Exodus 23:13 be damned (“Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips." emphasis added). Notably, b/c Easter herself was supposedly visited by her dead husband (now the sun god) and in so doing turned a nearby bird into an egg-laying rabbit (or... vice versa? or something?), they would take the blood from the sacrifices and dip eggs into them. To this day the South American celebrations of Easter will only color their eggs red, not pastel as is done in many Western areas... and supposedly they have little idea why - it's just their tradition started sometime in the past and now mostly forgotten.

And the link between Christmas and the yearly winter solstice - worshipping a tree, the date of December 25, etc. - is very well-known.

If even 1/10th of any of this were true, that would be strong support for what you said - a LOT has been added over time. The Bible itself, even the Old Testament, while it does single out left-handedness as being "odd", often presents left-handedness as an ADVANTAGE (or strength and riches), or at least not terribly cursed - e.g. Judges 3:15-21, Judges 20:16 1 Chronicles 12:2, etc. Then again, the "tradition" of Catholicism (which I grew up under) is that people should never read the Bible, b/c we are too dum-dumbz to understand it, and the people should trust the priests to fondle the children explain everything properly.

So yeah, you probably are better off, even if you develop a relationship with them as an adult, to have avoided that indirect indoctrination as a child.

path: 0 7501393 7502423, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 2

sukhmel 3 points 3 years ago

Then again, the "tradition" of Catholicism (which I grew up under) is that people should never read the Bible, b/c we are too dum-dumbz to understand it, and the people should trust the priests to fondle the children explain everything properly.

Hmm, what other religion does that remind me of 🤔

but really

!it's probably a thing in many old and vaguely formulated religions, though!<

path: 0 7501393 7502423 7533179, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1

OpenStars 1 point 3 years ago

Ngl, but I expect there to be stupid atheists one day. I know I know but consider that right now most atheists are "first-generation", i.e. people who put in the effort to do the thinking, really decide what they want, and then stick with it. But give it a hundred years, and people will inherit that the same as any other belief system (other examples: "America is a first-world nation, and we should defend Putin our country to the death (by genociding anyone who disagrees with me me).") that is accepted unconditionally.

That thought somewhat gives me compassion: that humans are stupid. Not all, but most it seems - or at least *I* am:-P. Then again, some of us aspire to more, and question EVERYTHING, and to the extent we follow that, we have many chances to improve on a daily basis.

Unlike "religion", where often you aren't allowed to question anything at all, despite the literal, exact, and direct quote from the Bible not just casually suggesting but COMMANDING precisely that (e.g. I Thessalonians 5:21). Even Jesus hated religion - calling the religious hypocrites (Karens) "vipers" and "white-washed tombs, nice to look at on the outside but full of rot & decay on the inside".

Not that most Christians would be aware of that - what the Bible or Jesus said I mean - b/c the rich old white men would rather that they not actually read, just blindly obey.:-(

path: 0 7501393 7502423 7533179 7536638, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

CrayonRosary 10 points 3 years ago

You can jerk off all you want as long as you don't eat meat on Fridays. But you also have to eat Jesus meat on Sundays.

path: 0 7501393 7502270, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 2

mightyfoolish 3 points 3 years ago

Better Jesus meat than Jesus juice.

(For those that don't know "liking Jesus juice" means to "like" children.)

path: 0 7501393 7502270 7507100, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1

sukhmel 2 points 3 years ago

I may have been better off without knowing that 😶

path: 0 7501393 7502270 7507100 7533189, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

Hegar 7 points 3 years ago

It seems so weird to me when people think that their beliefs and practices come from words on a page.

That's just not how culture works.

It's a living thing, like language. What we do and what we think it means is passed down, influenced by events and neighbors, sometimes changing slowly over time, sometimes proving incredibly durable, sometimes undergoing rapid mutations.

Christianity doesn't come from the bible anymore than words come from the dictionary.

path: 0 7501393 7502266, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0

Scubus 5 points 3 years ago

Ah yes, how could I forget that fish is famously not meat?

path: 0 7501393 7517816, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 2

jordanlund 7 points 3 years ago

And bats are birds. :)

Leviticus 11:13-19

13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;

15 Every raven after his kind;

16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,

17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,

18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,

19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

path: 0 7501393 7517816 7518181, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0

gramie 6 points 3 years ago

And that in Canada, beaver was officially declared to be a fish.

path: 0 7501393 7517816 7520856, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

samus12345 88 points 3 years ago

path: 0 7502366, hotness: undefined, score: 88, children: 7

fogstormberry 12 points 3 years ago

why's he raising his right fist?

path: 0 7502366 7505915, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 3

Deconceptualist 33 points 3 years ago

Because he's left-handed and so his right is the free one after he instinctively picked up the sign with his left?

path: 0 7502366 7505915 7506231, hotness: undefined, score: 33, children: 0

tooclose104 12 points 3 years ago

Easy, left handed sign

path: 0 7502366 7505915 7506842, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 0

samus12345 8 points 3 years ago

Because he's using his dominant hand to hold the sign.

path: 0 7502366 7505915 7506185, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0

harry_balzac 11 points 3 years ago

Sinister and proud of it!

path: 0 7502366 7508235, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0

deegeese 11 points 3 years ago

He’s an evangelical Protestant, not a Catholic.

path: 0 7502366 7504699, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 1

samus12345 13 points 3 years ago

Yeah, but the point is the Lefty solidarity, not his religion.

path: 0 7502366 7504699 7505115, hotness: undefined, score: 13, children: 0

someguy3 72 points 3 years ago

I was waiting for 'born/conceived out of wedlock' and was hit with even more insanity.

path: 0 7502283, hotness: undefined, score: 72, children: 3

achance4cheese 27 points 3 years ago

Same that came straight out of left field.

path: 0 7502283 7507914, hotness: undefined, score: 27, children: 1

Hazor 1 point 3 years ago

I see what you did there. ...and I'm not proud of how long it took me to see it.

path: 0 7502283 7507914 7536956, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

sukhmel 2 points 3 years ago

I was expecting some numerology bullshit or something akin. An acquaintance of mine was refused a baptism as a child on the grounds of being an antichrist or something.

Don't think he lost anything with that, tbf

path: 0 7502283 7532858, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

CaptainSpaceman 53 points 3 years ago

I prefer to listen to Aleister Crowley and take the Left Handed Path in life.

"If one were to take the bible seriously one would go mad. But to take the bible seriously, one must be already mad"

path: 0 7501144, hotness: undefined, score: 53, children: 1

Cruxifux 5 points 3 years ago

It’s crazy when someone as weird and ridiculous as Aleister Crowley is still less insane than the Bible.

path: 0 7501144 7514726, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

Baphomet_The_Blasphemer 53 points 3 years ago

My older brother and I are my Mom's Mom's only grandsons (the rest of the grand babies are all girls), she shunned my brother because he is a lefty, she shunned the granddaughters because they're not male, and then there's me being her pride and joy as a tall well-educated right handed male who shunned her for being such a judgemental religious cunt of a woman.

Edit: In addition, I'm sorry you've had to deal with this. Nobody should be treated so poorly by their grandparents because of a crippling birth defect like being born left-handed 😉.

path: 0 7515953, hotness: undefined, score: 53, children: 2

MonkderZweite 12 points 3 years ago

she shunned the granddaughters because they're not male

Neither is she.

path: 0 7515953 7526868, hotness: undefined, score: 12, children: 1

Baphomet_The_Blasphemer 3 points 3 years ago

I'm not sure logic played a big part in how she lived her life.

path: 0 7515953 7526868 7557859, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

butterflyattack 49 points 3 years ago

The word 'sinister' derives from 'the left side', which shows we've been aware of the strong links between left-handedness and the unholy prince of falsehood for some time. Have fun in hell, abomination!

path: 0 7519066, hotness: undefined, score: 49, children: 5

BaumGeist 18 points 3 years ago

path: 0 7519066 7521347, hotness: undefined, score: 18, children: 2

Localhorst86 6 points 3 years ago

Latin stole our phrase!

path: 0 7519066 7521347 7521893, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 1

ICastFist 5 points 3 years ago

Göttdamnd romans!

path: 0 7519066 7521347 7521893 7529048, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

june 16 points 3 years ago

I’ve never been more proud to be left handed

path: 0 7519066 7523290, hotness: undefined, score: 16, children: 0

tigeruppercut 8 points 3 years ago

Also (mal)adroit meaning (un)skillful comes from the root meaning right.

path: 0 7519066 7521799, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0

Etterra 37 points 3 years ago

I've said it before; blind faith is just a socially acceptable mental illness.

path: 0 7529087, hotness: undefined, score: 37, children: 1

Case 1 point 3 years ago

I feel like, in Christian theology, Doubting Thomas had a point.

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

I mean, ok... in the assumption of "magic" times, maybe just believe?

But in reality, someone claims to come back from the DEAD?!

Yeah, doubt. A lot of doubt.

His lack of "faith" was well founded in REALITY, so Jesus Christ, fucking showed up and proved it. Cool.

But we're to take this "remembrance" of someone doubting the impossible as unwise.

Fuck that, Christ showed up and said check my shit.... and was thus, confirmed.

If anything, this parable tells me TO doubt until proven otherwise. But hey, God/Jesus/Yaweh/Whatever hasn't showed up to collectively remove the doubt of any "Thomas."

As we can't verify, as Thomas did, the word of whatever, we SHOULD doubt.

God/Christ/Yahweh/Whatever, I challenge you, come down. Prove every doubting Thomas wrong. Show divinity. A legion of inbred Americans are waiting. A legion of people who weren't taught critical thought are waiting. Do it.

Show fucking works, bitch. I directly challenge you, from the Bible Belt of America, to the so-called Lord upon High, SHOW FUCKING WORKS.

Hell, I've been ready to die since I was fucking seven years old. SMITE ME PERSONALLY, bitch ass pedophile who impregnated a child, according to scripture. If you are the king of heaven, I choose to serve in oblivion.

path: 0 7529087 7642580, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

Veneroso 35 points 3 years ago

You know what they say about the left handed.... They can't do anything right!

TY TY I'll be here all week!

Unrelated, I switched to fapping with my left hand two years ago and now I can't switch back.

path: 0 7516171, hotness: undefined, score: 35, children: 1

ohlaph 9 points 3 years ago

This fuckin guy...

path: 0 7516171 7518351, hotness: undefined, score: 9, children: 0

Meuzzin 30 points 3 years ago

My mother was disfellowshipped from our Kingdom Hall, because my father committed adultery. The lesson is, don't expect even a cunt-hair's worth of logic from religious institutions.

path: 0 7529255, hotness: undefined, score: 30, children: 1

SlimeKnight 15 points 3 years ago

Sad to say I know enough about religious fuckery to know why it makes sense in their mind.

Men can't be expected to control their urges. So its the wife's responsibility to keep the husband sexually sated so he doesn't think about cheating. Therefore, its her fault.

Truely disgusting and unfair :/

path: 0 7529255 7533708, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 0

frustratedphagocytosis 26 points 3 years ago

Grandfather was beaten when he tried to use his left hand in school (Catholic run), father was not beaten but also forced to use right hand in school. I was in kindergarten and the teacher pointed out that 'we need to fix that' referring to my left handed writing. My mother must have given her a stern warning because I never heard anything else about it.

path: 0 7501640, hotness: undefined, score: 26, children: 5

deegeese 18 points 3 years ago

The nuns “fixed” my dad and he has the worst handwriting of anyone I know. My mom went to public schools and writes excellently with her left hand.

Both my brother and I are left handed. It boggles my mind when I see people trying to change children’s inborn traits.

path: 0 7501640 7501958, hotness: undefined, score: 18, children: 4

rdyoung 4 points 3 years ago

Nothing as drastic here, but, my father is left handed and he pushed me to use my right because of how much of the world is designed around right handers. He didn't use physical force but definitely pushed hard for me to use my left. That could be the reason for my atrocious handwriting.

path: 0 7501640 7501958 7503444, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

lars 3 points 3 years ago

My dad was born left-handed and I still love him.

Your choices, your lifestyle, but why do you people always try to shove it down our throats. Who hurt you all??

path: 0 7501640 7501958 7524659, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

sukhmel 1 point 3 years ago

Tbf, a friend of mine is left-handed and he has the worst of handwritings I know, or very close.

That's at least in part due to most of the writing implements that were available when he learned being designed for the right-handed

path: 0 7501640 7501958 7533336, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1

lightnsfw 2 points 3 years ago

I write left handed and mine's horrible too. My notebooks look like the scribblings of a toddler sometimes. On the other hand I don't have to worry about anyone reading my personal writings. Sucked in school though when we were grading each others tests and the know it all girl mine always went to tried taking off for handwriting

path: 0 7501640 7501958 7533336 7534926, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

Coreidan 23 points 3 years ago

They did you a favor. The alternative would be having to deal with their insane bullshit. Good riddance.

path: 0 7512881, hotness: undefined, score: 23, children: 0

Randelung 20 points 3 years ago

"By excluding all of these groups we're being extra inclusive to those we DO tolerate!"

path: 0 7507894, hotness: undefined, score: 20, children: 0

ohlaph 15 points 3 years ago

Hey, Satan. /s

path: 0 7518348, hotness: undefined, score: 15, children: 0

Simulation6 11 points 3 years ago

This used to be a thing even if you were not a religious nutjob. I lot of babies were forced to use their right hands if they showed any left handed tendencies.

path: 0 7525745, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 3

Bougie_Birdie 1 point 3 years ago

My great grandma grew up during the depression and was forced into right-handedness at public school. They had those desks that are basically just seats with a little handrest big enough for your books on one side. They didn't have any left-handed ones, so she had to learn right-handed.

I think she dropped out in the fourth grade, so she was never a terrific writer. But she was pretty ambidextrous which came in handy a couple times when she broke her hand.

path: 0 7525745 7534753, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

Weirdfish 1 point 3 years ago

I was pushed to write right handed, and then broke my right arm as a kid.

Wrote left handed for a while, then broke that one and went back to right.

To this day I have terrible penmanship with both, but am a programmer who types like machine gun fire so who cares.

Still a lot of little things I do left handed, put in contacts, ride goofy foot, etc.

path: 0 7525745 7533990, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1

TonyTonyChopper 3 points 3 years ago

Typing with both hands? Believe it or not, straight to hell

path: 0 7525745 7533990 7534420, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

azertyfun 10 points 3 years ago

This might be the wrong community to say this in but...

As far as I can tell it has never been official catholic dogma to persecute left-handed children. It's just not a thing.

Now Catholicism does come with a baggage of superstitions inherited from ancient Rome, including the whole "sinistra" thing. However while I strongly believe organized religion is the roots of many evils, this is hardly one of them. Your grandparents were just complete nutjobs. I've heard several stories of "gram-gram was freaked-out when I started showing left-hand dominance" (from people who are now 40+ because this superstition had died off before the war) but they always ended with gram-gram getting over herself.

path: 0 7530295, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 4

BleatingZombie 3 points 3 years ago

My ex can write with both hands because her parents wouldn't let her be left handed. I can tell you she's significantly younger than you're thinking. She was also catholic

path: 0 7530295 7534737, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1

azertyfun 3 points 3 years ago

My mom is left handed, was raised catholic, and if I remember correctly my grandpa had to tell a teacher to fuck off who wanted her to learn to write with her right hand.

I'm not disagreeing that the superstition exists, but anyone who was still preventing children from being left-handed after WWII was either old or a fucking moron. Now maybe there's some correlation between religiousness and susceptibility to superstition (/s) but I think that's where the catholic church's involvement ends. There's enough terrible things to blame them for, no need to make stuff up.

path: 0 7530295 7534737 7535062, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

EssentialCoffee 3 points 3 years ago

Well, it was common for schools back in the early-mid 1900s to force lefties to write with their right hands. Not just Catholic specifically, my grandmother's public school forced her to write right-handed.

But I can say that no one in the family was ex-communicated for being a lefty, and if they were, it was prior to the 1900s. You're right, OP's grandparents are just crazy unless OP was born in the 1920s or something.

path: 0 7530295 7535643, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1

tmyakal 2 points 3 years ago

early-mid 1900s

It was still happening in the late 1980s. That's why I have bad penmanship with both hands.

path: 0 7530295 7535643 7535912, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

Jaysyn 10 points 3 years ago

Just like Trump, religion ruins everything it touches.

path: 0 7501637, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 4

Holyginz 6 points 3 years ago

Religion has nothing to do with the cheeto. He can't even hold a Bible right side up. Tbf though I doubt the majority of Christians in the US have ever actually read the Bible and analyzed it themselves.

path: 0 7501637 7506541, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

quafeinum 6 points 3 years ago

I don’t think religion can be blamed for that donkey. He was born and raise as a nutjob and conman

path: 0 7501637 7503485, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

sukhmel 1 point 3 years ago

It's like a contemporary king Midas, only making not gold 🌚

path: 0 7501637 7533238, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

SpaceCrystal 0 points 3 years ago

Trump wasn’t even a Christian. He only pretended to be one just to get evangelical votes.

path: 0 7501637 7779011, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0

arizz 8 points 3 years ago

Welcome to the party, would you like a drink?

At least that is what I would say if op was the one posting this here. Glad I saw that this time, usually miss it.

path: 0 7514996, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 1

MNByChoice 4 points 3 years ago

A month old post with credit given to the OOP.

Thanks for pointing it out.

path: 0 7514996 7530109, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 0

lemmeee 8 points 3 years ago

I hope as time goes on, we open our eyes to realize how absolutely batshit insane these traditions, and maybe religions as a whole, really are.

Religion is designed to destroy a person’s ability to think critically. That’s why children are indoctrinated from a very young age and the result is that religious people are completely unable to question their beliefs. It’s really evil stuff.

path: 0 7541080, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0

kubica 8 points 3 years ago

Looking at the bright side, you end up winning by having them away.

path: 0 7501308, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0

FlyingSquid 7 points 3 years ago

Cool. I can scare Catholics.

path: 0 7501905, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0

HopingForBetter 7 points 3 years ago

Yeah... This is also partly why the dominant (read in church as "sinful") traits aren't prevalent, like having 6 fingers on one hand, or webbed hands, or a plethora of other indicators that YOU'RE A WITCH!

path: 0 7502023, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0

SinningStromgald 7 points 3 years ago

I went to a private Catholic school run by nuns prior to highschool. One of my friends was left handed and they forced him to learn to write with his right hand. They always told him it was wrong to use his left hand.

path: 0 7501919, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 1

perishthethought 2 points 3 years ago

My mom, 90 now, raised by German-American parents in the 30s, swears she was born left handed and was forced to change in kindergarten. Duck those old school superstitions.

path: 0 7501919 7504189, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

zipzoopaboop 6 points 3 years ago

Had a teacher in school with fucked up looking hands writing. It was because she was left handed, and forced to learn various skills in school with her right hand

path: 0 7501417, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

MrJameGumb 6 points 3 years ago

When I was in high school we had a vice principle who referred to weed as "left handed cigarettes" lol

path: 0 7501680, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

mods_are_assholes 6 points 3 years ago

My grandmother would beat my mother with a ruler if she tried to write left handed. It scarred her for life.

Your grandparents are idiots, and I say this as a theistic Christian that believes in the existence of the devil.

path: 0 7537626, hotness: undefined, score: 6, children: 0

jerkface 5 points 3 years ago

Maaaaaan, I wish I had someone like that in my life right now that I could feel really good about telling off.

path: 0 7530746, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

TIMMAY 5 points 3 years ago

weird thing to post if it isnt OC

path: 0 7515580, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

sapetoku 5 points 3 years ago

My uncle was forced to write with his right hand for the same stupid reason. Stupid catholics.

path: 0 7540215, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

JackiesFridge 5 points 3 years ago

Seriously if your brother finds out that's not on you or your mum. That's 100% your grandparents' fault.

path: 0 7529826, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

joel_feila 4 points 3 years ago

Well i can say this not a common belief. But dam that's harsh family.

path: 0 7530195, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 4

meliaesc 7 points 3 years ago

It was extremely common up until about the 60s, so anyone born in that era may hold the same beliefs. My grandmother was forced into right handedness (in Jamaica).

path: 0 7530195 7530441, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 3

EldritchFeminity 5 points 3 years ago

I know a guy who was forced to write right-handed in school in Massachusetts. He's about 25 now. It's crazy to think that there's still people out there believing this stuff.

path: 0 7530195 7530441 7533125, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 2

joel_feila 1 point 3 years ago

what that would break the law.

path: 0 7530195 7530441 7533125 7539773, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1

EldritchFeminity 1 point 3 years ago

How so? It's not like they were smacking him with rulers or anything; they would just "correct" him if they saw him writing left-handed by grabbing his pencil and telling him to use his right hand.

In fact, he completely forgot about it until he broke his right arm snowboarding in high school. He thought, "At least I don't have to do any work with my arm in a cast!" And then a teacher told him to try writing with his left hand, and he discovered that he writes better with his left than his right.

path: 0 7530195 7530441 7533125 7539773 7540930, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

Jerb322 3 points 3 years ago

That sucks, sorry. I'm left handed and got (still get) teased,but this is over the top. Glad you seam no worse for the wear. Knowing this I would "kill them with kindness" ,but to others in front of them. You clearly are not the devil they think you are, so show them.

path: 0 7501557, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0

lethargic_lemming 3 points 3 years ago

is this lemmy OC?

path: 0 7518442, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 1

ns1 1 point 3 years ago

Sadly, no

path: 0 7518442 7533103, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

jerrythegenius 2 points 3 years ago

path: 0 7530380, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 1

A_Random_Idiot 8 points 3 years ago

the overwhelming majority of the hateful, bigoted shit these people believe is not biblical.

Cause they don't want to be biblical. They don't want to be christian. They want to be hateful assholes with a self gratifying justification... and whats more wonderful self gratifying justification than the power of religion.

path: 0 7530380 7530458, hotness: undefined, score: 8, children: 0

rottingleaf 2 points 3 years ago

Yeah, I've been rather rose-eyed about Catholicism in childhood because of part of my family being in identity that, but not in such things.

Now I know better.

Still, I think the right behavior in Catholic ethics would be for them to accept that as God's judgement?.. I mean, nobody expects Christians to follow Christian ethics, that'd be stupid.

path: 0 7528859, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

AA5B 2 points 3 years ago

and. Crazy and religious. Your religious beliefs or lack of are up to you, but I think there are 1.35Billion Catholics who do not have anything like this superstition.

path: 0 7503160, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 3

killeronthecorner 5 points 3 years ago

This is a weird thing to say given biases and prejudices against left handed people are so well documented. Like, it's not specific to catholicism but in terms of where you might find these silly superstitions in the modern era, it's gonna be a non-zero number that believe this shit.

OPs grandparents being case and point.

path: 0 7503160 7504463, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0

porous_grey_matter 2 points 3 years ago

Nah, this is crazier than average but they've all got something pretty bad.

path: 0 7503160 7504426, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

Soggy 1 point 3 years ago

They've got all the rest of the crazy religion. I don't see much difference between thinking left-handedness is evil and all that trumpeting angel crap. All religion is superstitious dogshit.

path: 0 7503160 7515970, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

thepiguy 2 points 3 years ago

My religious parents and grandparents also told me to not use my left hand for anything sacred. But their reasoning was that left hand is used to wipe shit, which makes sense to me. Fair enough on that one XD

Edit: also forgot to mention, they have no problem with left handed people. Fortunately, I have never met anyone who is superstitious like that.

path: 0 7537361, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 2

pythonoob 1 point 3 years ago

Middle eastern?

path: 0 7537361 7540750, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 1

thepiguy 1 point 3 years ago

path: 0 7537361 7540750 7712471, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

Hikermick 2 points 3 years ago

Next time you see them slide your right hand up into your sleeve and tell them you cut it off. Fight ridiculous with ridiculous

path: 0 7537055, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0

HopingForBetter 1 point 3 years ago

path: 0 7502020, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

frustratedphagocytosis 1 point 3 years ago

path: 0 7501635, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

wheeldawg 1 point 3 years ago

Damn this really tempts a "getting in their face" conversation. But that would just forget cement it.

But they're too ancient to change their ways or pass on their intolerance, so maybe it wouldn't hurt.

path: 0 7509622, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

finkrat 1 point 3 years ago

I remember my grandma being weirded out a little bit that my daughter is a lefty

And my grandma likes baseball, she should know better

path: 0 7530690, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0

gennygameshark 0 points 3 years ago

Faith can be a beautiful thing. We all need something to believe in... However, "religion" is toxic and will tear down everything that can bring you joy in service of at best an unprovable hypothesis, and at worst a delusion.

path: 0 7530132, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0

atheism

@lemmy.world

login for more options

Community Guide

Archive Today will help you look at paywalled content the way search engines see it.

Statement of Purpose

This is a support and conversation community for people who don't believe in gods.
Superstition hucksters have no reason to subscribe or post here at all.
If you are looking to debate or proselytize, options will be linked lower in the sidebar.

Acceptable

Honest questions or conversations.
Discussions on parenting or advice.
Struggles, frustrations, coming out.
Atheist memes. We can have fun!
News headlines relevant to atheism.

Unacceptable

Depending on severity, you might be warned before adverse action is taken.

Anything against site rules.
Illegal and/or NSFW material.
Troll posts and comments. There will be no attempt to explain what that means.
Leading questions, agenda pushing, or disingenuous attempts to bait members.
Personal attacks or flaming.

Inadvisable

Self promotion or upvote farming.
Excessive shitposting or off-topic discussion.

Application of warnings or bans will be subject to moderator discretion. Feel free to appeal. If changes to the guidelines are necessary, they will be adjusted.

If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathizer or a resemblant of a group that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of any other group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you you will be banned on sight.

Provable means able to provide proof to the moderation, and, if necessary, to the community.

 ~ /c/nostupidquestions

If you want your space listed in this sidebar and it is especially relevant to the atheist or skeptic communities, PM DancingPickle and we'll have a look!

Connect with Atheists

Matrix: #atheism:envs.net

Help and Support Links

Streaming Media

This is mostly YouTube at the moment. Podcasts and similar media - especially on federated platforms - may also feature here.

Orgs, Blogs, Zines

Mainstream

Bibliography

Start here...

...proceed here.

Proselytize Religion

Convince an Atheist

From Reddit

As a community with an interest in providing the best resources to its members, the following wiki links are provided as historical reference until we can establish our own.

go to feed...

atheism

@lemmy.world

login for more options

Community Guide

Archive Today will help you look at paywalled content the way search engines see it.

Statement of Purpose

This is a support and conversation community for people who don't believe in gods.
Superstition hucksters have no reason to subscribe or post here at all.
If you are looking to debate or proselytize, options will be linked lower in the sidebar.

Acceptable

Honest questions or conversations.
Discussions on parenting or advice.
Struggles, frustrations, coming out.
Atheist memes. We can have fun!
News headlines relevant to atheism.

Unacceptable

Depending on severity, you might be warned before adverse action is taken.

Anything against site rules.
Illegal and/or NSFW material.
Troll posts and comments. There will be no attempt to explain what that means.
Leading questions, agenda pushing, or disingenuous attempts to bait members.
Personal attacks or flaming.

Inadvisable

Self promotion or upvote farming.
Excessive shitposting or off-topic discussion.

Application of warnings or bans will be subject to moderator discretion. Feel free to appeal. If changes to the guidelines are necessary, they will be adjusted.

If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathizer or a resemblant of a group that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of any other group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you you will be banned on sight.

Provable means able to provide proof to the moderation, and, if necessary, to the community.

 ~ /c/nostupidquestions

If you want your space listed in this sidebar and it is especially relevant to the atheist or skeptic communities, PM DancingPickle and we'll have a look!

Connect with Atheists

Matrix: #atheism:envs.net

Help and Support Links

Streaming Media

This is mostly YouTube at the moment. Podcasts and similar media - especially on federated platforms - may also feature here.

Orgs, Blogs, Zines

Mainstream

Bibliography

Start here...

...proceed here.

Proselytize Religion

Convince an Atheist

From Reddit

As a community with an interest in providing the best resources to its members, the following wiki links are provided as historical reference until we can establish our own.

go to feed...