Are you prepared for the ramifications of windows 10 EoL?
2 years ago by Brkdncr to c/technology
Next year Windows 10 goes End of Life. Microsoft will undoubtedly push windows 11 hard, but a lot of machines won’t support it leading to a few economic points of interest:
The demand for new machines will be high, driving up cost.
The supply of unsupported machines will be high, driving down the used market.
Are you all ready?
Personally I use Linux Mint on my other machine and Windows on my main PC
Before Windows 10 goes EoL I'm going to get my NAS running a Windows VM for Fusion 360 and Lightroom and my main rig will be on Linux Mint as well
I just need a need to finish my NAS rebuild to get everything rolling at full steam
Unfortunately that means I need to stop buying car parts first
stop buying car parts first
Oof. Same, brother. Same. 🤜🤛
As your attorney I advise you to buy a motorcycle. Bikes and bike parts are cheaper. And then you can have more bikes than cars, and more bikes to buy parts for. Wait, where was I going with this again?
If you wanted to get rid of windows in general, Darktable seems to be a good alternative to lightroom, for raw editing. There's a learning curve, but there are plenty of tutorials available.
Not sure about Fusion 360 though... Maybe FreeCAD?
My machine is 7 years old and runs fine on Windows 11. I don't understand all these posts about Windows 11 not being supported. TPMs have been a thing for 10+ years now.
Do you game at all? Gaming on Linux has made great strides, be be fair, but for a lot of titles you still need to consider a dual boot of some form of Windows, thanks to over the top anti-cheat, DRM, and developer support.
Something to consider for the gamers out there.
The only titles that don't work in Linux are the ones with invasive anti-cheat, some multi-player titles.
Virtually all single players game work. I've had games that don't work on Windows due to crashes / performance but run on Linux.
Game pass games also do not work afaik.
Apple is king of new OS doesn't work on the old hardware though
Yes! Luckily the opensource folks are crazy and make awesome progress reversing m chips It matters to me because somday (maybe 10y) I’ll get the one of my mother for free 😂 like i got my other apple PCs (running Arch/endeavourOS)
Apple's the only hardware vendor for MacOS, so they've got slightly different incentives than Microsoft does for Windows. If a new MacOS release induces hardware purchases, that's a lot of money for Apple. If a new Windows release induces hardware purchases, Microsoft sees little of that benefit.
Yeah, people are just going to keep using it, they just won’t get updates. That means they will be vulnerable to any exploits that come along afterward but most people don’t care. M$ shot everyone in the foot when they decided to limit windows 11 compatibility.
When windows 7 came out I knew people who stuck with windows xp until they bought a new computer with 10 or 11 on it. The market will get a slight bump from EoL but it isn’t going to force everyone with windows 10 to run out and buy a new computer immediately.
It's mostly just to force the hands of businesses that will now have to upgrade to stay compliant with security standards
Which is probably the play. I'd doubt Microsoft really gives a flying fuck about home users buying licenses anymore, since their revenue model for consumer Windows is just ads and data harvesting now anyway.
With Valve pumping all that development money and effort into proton, I will finally be able to go full Linux before Windows 10 ends it's life. I only needed it for gaming, but those days are finally gone! Thanks Valve! ^_^
I did it many years ago. Some minor hiccups (Mostly at the start, with a select few games taking a while before running well in proton), but overall my experience has been pretty smooth as well. Especially in like the last..3ish years? I dont think I've been held back from playing anything I seriously wanted to play.
every year is the year of linux on desktop, or so has been claimed.
Just get yourself a copy of the LTSC (long term service contract) versions, they will still be supported until 2027, and in the past have been extended by up to 5 years on top.
It's the only viable alternative to Linux, for those who can't switch for one or another reason. Windows 11 is pure cancer.
Having used 10 and 11 interchangeably since 11 came out... meh.
I mean, maybe there are additional annoyances from the IT/sysadmin side that I just don't bump into as a user, but besides some UX downgrades that don't make sense (that taskbar... why?) it's a pretty neutral change. Maybe I'm to grizzled by having been there in the switch to 95. I unironically had Windows Me on my computer there for a while. I even caved and did some Vista eventually.
But not Windows 8. Windows 8 was unusable.
The taskbar is one thing, but it's horribly slow, even on a rather high spec laptop. The delay from clicking start menu icons to programs starting is very noticeable, and some programs freeze regularly. MS Office are actually some of the worst offenders. I tried it for 2 weeks and then did a fresh install of Windows 10.
I didn't even mind ME, for me it was running pretty stable. I heard most issues came from people updating from 98 or 98SE to ME, a clean install was usually stable.
I skipped Vista though, went straight to 7. Still my favorite Windows. 8 was crap, 8.1 was not bad once you applied the taskbar fix.
Hm. Not been my experience going back and forth between 10 and 11, but that's always the case with Windows, isn't it? Bit of a crapshoot in general.
Honestly, I have no idea how to evaluate real laptop performance these days. Most of the performance issues I have on battery devices are some unholy combination of horrific power management, bad software and semi-deliberate online weirdness with services throttling you out of adblocker spite.
People are out there telling you how well Youtube is meant to perform playing video and how long the battery is meant to run based on that and I don't even know what they mean anymore.
I actually liked the full screen Start menu from 8/8.1 for the specific use case of my living room PC. You got a big 10-foot UI by default with nice large icons you could punch from across the room.
The whole put-your-mouse-in-the-corner-and-swipe for the charms menu was baffling, though. I get that this was supposed to be a tablet UI thing, but why make it mandatory for the mouse interface as well?
Yep. I get they wanted to pretend 8 wasn't a complete bust, hence the 8.1 nonsense, but they should have called it Windows 9 and been honest about it. They certainly acknowledged it by the time 10 came around.
Nothing got named "Windows 9" because Microsoft feared compatibility issues with janky programs looking for the first set of characters in "Windows 95" or "Windows 98."
Later this was changed by the marketing department to some blather about "wanting consumers to perceive a clean break from the previous version." But then, Microsoft also claimed Windows 10 would be the Last Windows, and it would just have feature updates built on top of it forever as a service. So you sure as fuck can't take anything they say at face value.
Windows 11 is garbage:
Agree on 1, mostly. I forget that's the case because I have software installed to fix it, which is fairly trivial but shouldn't be necessary in the first place.
2 is a day one meme thing that no longer holds. Sound management in particular is now much better than Win 10 in several key areas, IMO. Likewise with 3. Echoes of Vista and Win 8.1 dragging day one legit complaints way past when they were no longer an issue.
4 and 5 are the kinds of things that average users typically don't know or care about (and mostly don't have to) and are debatable from a power user's perspective. If the argument is Win10 is reaching end of support and you care about the implications of that, then you are the type of user that can fix that problem. And if you're the kind of user who doesn't care about a supported vs unuspported Win10, you don't care about this specific observation either.
Let me be clear, I'm not an active apologist for Win 11 or any other Windows, I just don't have a preference. Win11 was a sidestep, the best I can say for it is that I'm kinda glad MS was semi-forced to keep it as a separate version rather than a patch to 10. But it's also mostly just fine. A few people got really incensed about it early on and have tried to keep up a pretense that it's a disaster iteration in the vein of some of the really bad ones, which using it day to day is clearly an exaggeration.
So bother with all that mac imitation especially when the upgrade is not possible? Just buy the more power efficient, faster and improved value chrome book.
11 has artificial hardware requirements built in that will prevent it from installing on a lot of computers (possibly most computers deployed in the world, at this point) which is the main issue. All those non-technical home users who bought a brand name prebuilt PC in 5, 6, however many years ago that still works just fine will not be able to upgrade.
They will be left in the lurch unless M$ relents and removes those requirements (unlikely), they all learn to patch them out themselves (extremely unlikely), or they all go buy new computers with newer hardware (extremely annoying).
As me and others have said all over this thing, Windows 10 no longer getting updates doesn't mean it's mandatory to update. Most of the users you describe will not notice or care that security updates die out and they will just take whatever runs in the next PC they buy, as they normally do.
This mostly matters to power users and corporations. If that. I'm arguably a power user and have zero intention to upgrade my legacy Win10 machines for this reason, either.
We are trialing about 20 Linux desktops (10 Linux mint and 10 zorin OS) across 2 of our MSP clients.
So far, they have had zero technical tickets in 6 months. They did have double the average user training tickets compared to windows machines. Most of the questions were around how to work with editable PDFs and where is the document was they just saved (file manager questions).
Zorin OS seems to be winning on the usability metrics. Its very polished and more closely matching the UI of people coming from windows.
Are there any windows programs you've had to set up through wine?
Not in our case. We only take on clients that converted to browser based apps. Bit we are yet to convert the heavy excel users. The one we have converted are light Excel users and online excel is working just fine for them.
It's my only hangup. I vba on the regular. Work forced win11 on me, but at home, once i can be assed, I'll vm windows eventually and migrate completely, and scheme alternative languages for my spreadsheet wizardry lmao
From the bottom of my tortured soul: fuck Windows.
Already got my NEW 12-core machine before prices go up, running Debian 100%. With my 25 year history of using Linux and pirating Windows, MS never saw a damn penny from me, and I'm proud of that fact. Not even an OEM license (all my laptops I ever had were work supplied and I build my own PCs)
To be fair, I've been using windows since 3.1. I haven't paid for windows since xp I think. I got an oem key second hand right around w7 for my desktop. That key has just lasted me all the way to w11. So I haven't paid ms anything either in decades (except for my personal data I guess?)
I've never paid for a Windows license, ever. I sure as fuck didn't for Win 95 when it came out, since us script kiddies figured out pretty fast you can install it with a CD key of all 1's. And then I used Windows 2000 for a long time. So long that I still remember the (stolen, MSDN) license key I used from having installed it umpteen times.
DDTPV-TXMX7-BBGJ9-WGY8K-B9GHM
There, you can have that one gratis and for nothin'. For all the good it'll do you now.
And I still have one of those grey and blue plastic MSDN tackle boxes full of CD's of all the Microsoft stuff. You want a copy of Visual Studio 2003 or something? I got you.
I've extracted about 40 keys from my school, all W10, Education edition (equal to Enterprise), but work with any newer edition. Unlimited number of uses, no expiration. I've been sharing them left and right, and if one goes bad, I just let them switch to a new one.
Corporations (the only people who actually care about their OS being in support) upgrade their machines every few years so they've already done that. Home users don't know what that means and won't care. The remaining 2% have already installed linux.
This.
Official OS support is a security concern. The machine I have in use at home that is running Win10 is doing so on deliberately old hardware for preservation and it will continue to do so indefinitely, just like my XP machine. I'm even a bit surprised myself by how few Win10 computers I have, considering I haven't once upgraded one to Win11 on purpose. I thik I may have an older laptop that is still on Win10 and can happily stay there, since it doesn't see much use.
But hey, corporate office PCs ARE likely to hit the used market in higher numbers at that point, and those are often a good deal for cheap DIY builds. It's still a good date to track if you're into that sort of thing.
Using rufus it's pretty easy to install windows 11 without meeting their bullshit requirements.
Did that for my work laptop, which is getting old but runs just fine. Including windows 11.
Plenty of reasons to switch to Linux, but this can be circumvented. And anyone who doesn't know how to, because it is too complicated shouldn't really switch to Linux anyway IMO, because they will already run into trouble with finding compatible printers, getting software for proprietary hardware they are using, etc.
Thanks for the lead. Now I know about Rufus https://pureinfotech.com/...
Tbf they genuinely do.
They've invested heavily in Linux and are one of its major contributors. I think they were in the top 5 of contributors.
They realised years ago the Linux desktop isn't going to take off with the average user. So there's no need to compete directly.
Azure actually runs on their own custom distribution of Linux.
Been ready since before Win 10 was announced. I went 100% Linux 10 years ago.
I'm seriously considering making Tiny11 my daily driver on my gaming desktop.
I'm about to start a prolonged test run on my new to me secondhand laptop as soon as my ADHD brain lets me remember at an opportune time to actually do it 😄
Do you have a to-do list somewhere, analog or digital? Definitely helps me remember all the shit I need to remember.
I pick something every day to do off of it. Probably add more than 7 things during the week though. 🫣
Keeping lists has not really worked for me to the point that I'm actively averse to them, especially in paper form.
In stead I make do with alarms and making sure that my days are hardly ever busy so that I and my very basic system don't get overwhelmed lol
Same here. I have to set an alert/notification. I like to set it three times 5 mins apart. Usually works. Lol
I usually set one 24h before the thing, one 1h before I have to leave for the thing, and sometimes an extra one 2h before lol
Finally I don't need my computer for working, they provided us with company laptops, so I don't need to worry about compatibility and windows only programs anymore.
So you know what I'm going to do once windows 10 reaches eol.
For my it will certainly be the year of desktop linux.
Not really, but I have 18 months to migrate all my shit away from there. I've already moved a lot of my critical stuff to FOSS software running under win10 and I'm more than passing familiar with Linux. Shouldn't be a massive deal.
I do it already at work! Windows runs great in qemu.
There is a few things that we still need to move away from, app wise, that requires windows. But already I solve 95% of my work tasks in Linux. We will soon move all terminal computers in our production lines to Foss software and new stations run Ubuntu. Linux runs lighter and cheaper and easier to maintain and update and replace. We are super happy about it.
Best thing is, it will only get better!
Yeah that's great. I only struggle with how to split the hardware up between Linux and Windows, because I'd have to do most (but not all) of the demanding work in Windows, but that's only a fraction of the time, so then that hardware will be unusable the rest of the time when I'm just using Linux. Ah well, I'll figure something out, and I'd rather take unaccessible hardware 95% of the time than running Windows all the time.
I run windows 10 in a docker container on Linux and RDP in from any computer. More lightweight than a full fledge VM. It comes with file system passthrough as a network folder.
I just stop the container when I'm done and return to my Linux desktop session.
The only thing that hold me back full-time linux daily driving due to workplace uses M$ suites (Office, Teams, Outlook and so on) and CAD program (Freecad pita for me, haven't tried Ondsel addon).
I don't think they would just abandon the support overnight (unless they're being greedy af and want to drive the failed "Windows 11" adoption very fast). The fact that they only make "sudo" utility only for Windows 11 is disguting (though you can do it yourself on windows 10 too), pretty sure they will keep giving security patches just like XP and 7 being legacy system.
I don't know. I have a 7th gen i7 and it works fine, I want a new PC but can't afford it, but even if I could I wouldn't touch Win11 with a barge pole.
I fucking hate it. I don't want to move to Linux. Probably just pirate the updates for the next 3 years and then deal with the security risk.
Need to petition the EU to shop this shit and force them to extend life due to the insane amount of e-waste it will cause.
Lmao, I've been ready since 7 reached the theoretical end of life.
Air gap 7, use Linux on everything else.
Windows 7 will maybe work for a while.
There's going to be a point where new Windows software won't run on Windows 7, though.
Freezing the OS is one thing, but freezing the application library is another.
Heh, I only keep it for a limited use case. I have backups of the software, so I'm good until win7 won't run on new hardware.
No need for any updates when what I use works perfectly for me.
music producer?
I've heard of some buying bulk macbooks and cloning their drives because knowing your workflow is the most important thing.
Atari Teenage Riot's music is still produced on an Atari ST.
Nah, just particular about how my media is played. I have my media box set up exactly how I like it, and don't like the available programs on Linux. Every year or two I go and retry things, or try new options though, in case things get to where I want them
Air-gaping applications has become way harder when everyone introduced the cloud-based bullshit. You either lose half the features (due to not being online) or the whole application due to needing to upgrade the license/new OS where the old app doesn't work, or other bullshit.
And, sadly, that's where most people are. Convert half the application to cloud and then deprecate the features in offline mode. And yet it's cheaper to just do these calculations offline.
use win11 at work, dont like it much. when win10 hits EoL I'll dither for a year or so before switching over to mint or some other distro full time
simracing hardware
Hmm. Like, pedals, throttle, steering wheel? That was an issue many years back, but most of that supports USB HID these days. Like, OSes don't normally need hardware-specific drivers or anything.
I've switched to W11 on my main rig, since Linux doesn't have the sort of compatibility that I can rely on for my work. I installed explorer patcher to restore W10 start menu, task bar, and right click menu. I combed through the settings to deactivate all the data collection settings.
On my laptop, I dual boot W11 and KDE Neon.
It's the best that I can do given the circumstances
I used to take pride in that I could fully set up, configure, secure, minimally provision (with software) and neuter the more egregious aspects of Vista/7/8/8.1 within a 16hr time frame.
With Windows 10 this increased to 20 hours, and with my own Windows 11 install I am currently clocking in at 24hrs - three whole work days. The last day of which is spent in the Registry and doing multiple reboots to ensure the new UI fuckery has been appropriately castrated.
I have a handful of programs, both current and vintage, that are either inadequately or completely unable to be serviced by Wine. With that said, I am now down to only two rigs on Windows, the remainder being various flavours of Linux or BSD.
Yep, got my frenly window-smashing ball and a mug of pale eol ready.
You likely just need to enable TPM through the BIOS (each manufacturer calls it something different).
I’m in a similar boat, but am going to use W10 EOL to probably jump ship to Linux - if not at the very least switch to Windows 10 LTSC.
They're requiring an unnecessary new piece of hardware in order to force more computer sales. Exactly why Microsoft is interested in forcing more hardware sales, I'm not entirely sure. The hardware in question is some kind of encryption thingy, but it doesn't offer any real benefits beyond just changing where the fundamental layer of trust is for the encryption in your computer.
iirc, Microsoft had some significant investment in Intel.
this is perfectly rational monopolist-cartel-protecting-monopolist-cartel behavior.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=microsoft%27s+investment+in+intel&t=fpas&ia=web
My job in the a non technical field relies on a laptop to run a label printer, the laptop is ancient and I already had to install revOS on it so that printing labels isn't horribly bogged down waiting on the laptop to load the simple printer program. Is there anyway that proton would be able to run that program? Probably not because of all lack of driver support, if anyone has any ideas I'm all ear, even just pointing me in a direction would be appreciated!
Proton is really a WINE fork intended specifically for Steam games. Most of the changes in it target games. You may hear a lot about Proton having good compatibility because, historically, games were where WINE tended to have compatibility issues, and Valve put a lot of work into fixing that, so it's more that Proton just improved the situation specifically for games a lot recently.
WINE might be able to run the program, would be what I'd try rather than Proton. You can technically run Proton without Steam, but it's not really designed for that.
Or you might be able to run a Windows VM on newer hardware and run it on that, would be my fallback attempt. Less seamless than just having a Windows program open a window alongside Linux ones, but sometimes that can work if WINE can't do it.
I'd see if Linux can recognize the label printer, if this is a really ancient printer. That'd be my first step. Then look into having Windows apps print to said printer.
Shit lol, I meant wine, I personally use proton for steam so it's stuck in my brain first. Also it's not so much that it's ancient but that it's a commercial printer not really marketeted to the public, but I'll give running the computer on Linux a shot with wine maybe a Linux miracle will happen.
This sounds interesting. What the hell is RevOS? What kind of label maker is that? Does it have a name? Do you know what kind of cable it's using to communicate with the pc?
Yeah it's brand name is kiaro it just uses a usb to connect to the laptop, and revOS is basically just a custom windows install that has as much of the bloatware removed as possible as well as some UI mods to make it feel more like old school windows a little bit. The laptop is from like pre 2010 so Microsoft is slowly killing it's performance with all the bloatware crap. Kinda ridiculous that they don't take older hardware performance very seriously on windows the thing is just trying to run simple GUI printer software and it was struggling hard before revOS.
This is what I think one need to do to test if that would work
If the device is a COM device in windows then I think it should just work out of the box. If not, then the entire device needs to be forwarded using udev rules to wine. Let me know if you want to attempt this :)
Microsoft will extend support once the deadline is near, for enterprise customers.
I've been ready, ditched that malware over a year ago and it has been great.
Not sure if I will live that long
Got a well specced 4th Gen i7 that does everything I need so unless it blows up, I won't be upgrading. Started working on the plan this week. Been using Mint on my secondary (non essential laptop) but never had the stones to take the plunge on my main rig.
Watching MS stepping into the enshittification trend and AI with Win11 means this is the last straw, particularly now I don't need to rely on keeping up with windows for work. Currently bashing on Linux Mint DE in a VM to test what I need and have working to be happy:
Outlook/Office - Thunderbird is good but it's been a while since I've used Libre Office but didn't have much luck with it in the past - trashing the formatting when bouncing between LO & MSO. Hoping the more recent versions are better else office web will have to do for those documents that don't play nice.
Steam - make sure I can get it going, several key games. This is the least of my worries after seeing what others have said. NVIDIA graphics may be a bit more painful.
RDP - I still have another headless win10 media box. VNC as backup. This box will be the next on the chopping block if all goes well.
Backup - this is the big one. Currently use Backblaze for unlimited backup and love the set & forget nature. No native Linux client so would require moving to their B2 platform with a third party interface - do-able, just need to get off my butt to work it out :p
File structure - always struggled with this in my playing with Linux, need to become more comfortable with where files live and general directory structure.
Will slowly pick those off over the next couple of weeks and then I should be good to go.
I already use Windows Update Blocker to disable automatic updates of Windows. So Windows 10 going EOL won't change much for me.
@lemmy.world
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If MS decides that my hardware is obsolete, I'll just go full Linux 🤷♂️
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