But have you considered that he didn't change military policy on Isreal?
That should be the one and only issue you base your vote on, according to a scary amount of people around here.
Edit: See? Here they are, saying Trump and Biden are the same. It's kinda wild to watch.
Different people have different priorities. I live in eastern EU. The idea of the US dropping all support for Ukraine is pretty damn scary to me. I obviously can't vote in the US election, but I will happily support Biden from across the pond due to that one issue.
To a Palestinian? Yeah, I understand they don't really care about anything outside the direct issues affecting their people so they'd be anti-Biden.
I get why they don't like Biden. But Trump has openly said that Israel should escalate the attacks and finish off the Palestinians.
Biden is ignoring genocide. Trump is actively encouraging it.
He did move the embassy to Jerusalem. It probably helped escalate the tensions that led to the attack and then war.
It makes me skeptical that much of the anti-Biden rhetoric around Israel/Palestine is either IDF/Russian/Iranian trolls or just terminally online edgelords who haven’t got a clue about the realities of a US election. Namely that letting Biden lose will be much worse for everyone, Palestinians especially.
The idea of the US dropping all support for Ukraine is pretty damn scary to me.
Only it seems that support for Ukraine is slowly drying out anyway. So whether electing Biden will help that is questionable.
One can't blame them for not trusting anything signed by Russia, though. But maybe they should have conceded on some of the occupied territories, when Russia wasn't demanding anything they didn't hold, which is as close to "begging for peace" as you can expect from an adversary 3 times stronger.
Dunno, I think no matter what the outcome of that election, for Ukraine it'd be best to sign some treaty by September. Same for Armenia, only unless somebody forces Aliyev, it may not get such an opportunity.
You mad bro?
He didn't change policies on many other things too.
Look, even if you single issue on Palestine, which is 100% reasonable, the fact of the matter is that life expectancy and quality for Palestinians absolutely goes down significantly further under Trump. He has effectively said as much. Ot is baffling to me how there are people so myopic and stupid as to not see this. If you actually give a shit about even a single Palestinian, Trump is quite clearly an even worse nightmare scenario than they currently experience.
“The genocide I am imagining in my mind is worse than the genocide that is currently happening.” — liberals
I’m not sure there will be any Palestinians left to kill once Biden’s finished with them. If he’s willing to slaughter an entire nation just to enrich his arms dealer puppet masters, what makes you think he’d hesitate to slaughter you?
If I were you, I would simply not support genocide. It’s really quite easy! It’s much harder to rationalize it and tell jokes that would have been considered antiquated decades ago!
Did we ever get that comprehensive justice system reform after the George floydd protests?
If not... maybe the protests didn't go far enough? Go further.
Oh, well, you fucking mouth-breathing moron, here's how: Biden personally told me he likes murdering Palestinians more than me last week at a charity function. We were having manhattans and those little cocktail weenies.
It's not too late to swap out Biden, but i agree with everything else you said.
Ok, would you care to explain to me why? The way i see it, Biden is and always has been "not Trump". If you put another person who isn't trump but is also not a terrible unpopular candidate they would probably get a lot more votes.
People keep saying it's too late without giving any proof. Saying that shit is going to MAKE IT too late. Postponing it any is going to make things harder. It's something that unanimously has to happen right now if we want any chance at not falling to fascism.
It is too late to swap out Biden. It’s too late to try this with anyone else.
I'm slowly coming around to a Harris ticket. That memo that's been circulating lays out a pretty compelling case.
I'm beginning to think the people down voting us are bots. Completely unreasonable negative response for a pretty reasonable opinion.
I'm not sure it makes sense to talk of them as of separate figures. The US state policy, internal and foreign, under both is eerily similar and continuous, with Trump it looked like "dumpster fire of the day", with Biden (and Obama before Trump) it looked like "another careful calculated decision", but they are all in the same general direction.
Biden cleaned up Trump’s mess and avoided a complete imminent global financial collapse.
Was it really Biden, though? Global economy is self-organizing and kinda reliable, like the Internet (by design, not by its real topology and those big underwater cables with no backup connecting whole continents).
no backup connecting whole continents
Wtf are you talking about, there are dozens of them, its literally a huge network of cables.
Theres a whole website about it
Also, global economy is highly fragile, it can take one major investment bubble like in 2008 or event like Covid in 2020 to shake its foundations. Countries all over the world have to pump shitloads of money into it to keep the economy in a state where it won‘t collapse.
Wtf are you talking about, there are dozens of them, its literally a huge network of cables.
There are places connected by only one or two and there are issues with load in case a lucky combination of those gets sabotaged etc.
Can we all agree that since we have an age-minimum of 35, then we should have an age-maximum tied to, say, retirement age?
The argument is simple: nobody is in their prime past retirement age. Nobody. And this by default suggests we guaranteed have better options to run the presidency than some geriatric seniors.
But then, how do have the oldest, whitest person in charge?
Don't worry, the 1% always wins while we live a capitalist way of life.
I see you have decided to criticize the democrats. I also see you have failed to post the required 100,000 word essay on how the Republicans are worse then the democrats.
That makes you a secret Russian Republican antisemetic nazi communist. Sorry... them the rules.
IDC how old they, I care how competent they are.
Theres plenty of incompetent middle aged and young people as well, letstry not to elect any of them, k?
Exactly this, I’d rather someone near me drive their car at 65mph, than drive next to someone who’s a cocaine addict going over 85mph on the freeway.
I think you're on to something. We can probably solve most of the problems Biden has in the public discourse by giving him some cocaine.
Yeah, its a dumb barrier in 2024. Lots of 20somethings would be better than biden or trump.
Ultimately, the DNC and RNC exist to stifle options, so until the 2 party system has a replacement theres little hope for real change anyways.
The 2 party system rests on the one seat FPTP election system. So you'd need a complete renewal.
In fact, this would probably be the best year to third party with an election reform party?
Personally I'd be in favor of making it an age maximum. Let's have a Logan's Run rule for government.
And I say this with complete seriousness, and as someone who is already ineligible under the rule I propose.
Well the good news is that if Biden wins all the names being tossed around for 28 are in their 40s or 50s at the oldest.
I'm crossing my fingers for Whitmer personally.
Bad news is that if Trump wins, they'll all probably be in prison by then.
Vote.
If you really believe the Republicans getting control of the nation state is a existential threat, you would want to use every tool possible to prevent that right?
What if we changed how we vote so maintaining democracy doesn't fall solely into the democrats lap? So the democrats have backup on the debate stage! So there are more people to call trump out on his bullshit. So we have more chances to stop the Republicans. Wouldn't you want more chances? Don't you want to do everything we can to stop the worst from occurring?
Consider working towards passing electoral reform in your state. Maine and Alaska were able to do it... why not yours?
Especially in a blue state. What is stopping blue states from passing electoral reform? Cause it ain't the Republicans...
Michigan, for one, has made several reforms to electoral law via ballot measures and laws
As long as the two party system reigns supreme and one party puts forth absolutely insane candidates, the other candidate will be no more than a middle ground candidate that tries to siphon votes and take no meaningful stances.
It's a win win for conservatives, at worst they get someone that has to cater to some of their base.
Don't care. I am voting against Project 2025 and for the guy that has an effective and good group around him...not the useful idiot that has to get a new group of people given to him by his handers because the last group is all in prison...
The same group that put him on the debate stage? The same group that allowed him to come off fully arrogant and out of touch in the latest interview? The same group that has essentially thrown one of the most important elections in the span of a week? Fuckin hell, there's a case to be made of elderly abuse against this 'good group'.
I'm gonna vote republican-light (D), but this head in the sand bullshit is an additional turn off. You should care.
I get it, the stakes are high and fascism looms, but shilling for the oligarchy is just barf. I'm surprised y'all haven't started wearing blue hats 'keep america great' or some stupid shit yet.
It isn't shilling it, it is recognizing that literally nothing can be done about it YET (especially between now and the election) and it is irrelevant for the topic of who to vote for this election...hell the only relevance is that trump will be the worst option for it, but it always comes up to pull voters away from the only good option, either as a no-vote or into a spoiler-vote.
#StopTheGerontocracy
#FuckThePalePaleoPatriarchy
Everybody is tired of these dinosaurs. I don't know anybody conservative or liberal who's thrilled about either candidate.
As far as this election goes, my thought process goes like this.
Biden: Oh my God, NO! He's terrible!
Trump: Oh my God, NO! He's terrible! x100
Therefore I'll be voting for Biden.
Is this more 'both sides the same' crappola? Sure sounds like that.
The sides are definitely not the same. One side is a fascist, a rapist, and a felon; the other side has trouble being coherent after 6pm.
They're not the same, and I know who I'm voting for (not the fascist). But damn do I wish we had some better choices.
I'm happy enough to vote for the Biden administration. Whether or not Biden is actually leading the charge himself doesn't really matter to me, it's what they have accomplished in the past 4 years that I actually like (with the obvious exception of Gaza).
To be clear, I'm not indifferent on the first 4 years of Biden, I actively like it and wish for it to continue if more aggressive reform isn't on the table, which it isn't, nor would I expect it to be.
That said, the debate validated the biggest concerns about Biden. I have faith that his administration would keep up the good work if Biden is too feeble to run the show himself. But it's shitty optics, and I don't blame people for being alarmed. Especially since Harris isn't very popular, nor do I fully trust her not to hold the reigns too tightly if they're passed to her.
Yeah point out that you’re not happy with Biden’s handling of the Middle East like it would by any different or better under Trump. Can’t forget that one is a fascist and one isn’t, don’t forget that little snippet of information.
Bro, can I have your house or $500k?
I don't think this is. It's not wrong if it's true. In this case it's very true.
Now if you said both Biden and Trump committed the same amount of crimes. That would be doing the both sides thing.
Doing away with First Past The Post voting in favor of a more representative electoral system (such as but not limited to Ranked Choice voting) will Introduce competition into the electoral process.
This will increase the quality of candidates across the political spectrum. Yes, this would even help the Republicans pick less insane candidates.
I highly recommend multiple seat districts so that multiple groups get representation. One seat districts are very 1800s. Regards from Northern Europe.
We have to think further than the next election. At this point we just have to assume we will win this November and start planning for 2028. There's going to be a big strike that May Day so we would need to have sympathetic representatives wherever we can. As much as we hate biden for solely running on that, "not Republican" will get you far, maybe enough to flip even a local seat
Biden is losing in the polls to trump. If he continues to run we will have Trump again. I'm scared shirtless. I wish the democratic party would quit gambling with our democracy and take the fascist threat seriously.
They are taking the threat seriously. The problem is who they consider the threat. Democrats don't see fascists as a threat to them, and do see progressives as a threat.
Which is exactly how Hitler came to power too, the middle chose right because they were more scared of left.
Great take
I don't like it anymore than anyone else, but just look at how effective they were in shutting down Bernie. Yet, somehow, they are completely powerless to stop the Repuglicans from doing whatever they have wanted for the last 80 years.
I don't know why I got down voted for agreeing with you 🤔
Yeah you're completely right.
So your opinion is that we ignore polls completely and stick our hands in the sand...
I’m scared shirtless.
This is clearly not The Good Place so you can say "shit."
To be fair, (spoilers for the show) it was the bad place where you couldn't swear
Shirt
Who is down voting this? Hilarious comment dude. You made me chuckle. Thanks.
Well, you're in the US, so it's not your problem if they decide to nuke someone outside it or, say, greenlight an invasion. While I have some of my family and myself in a place theoretically attractive to nukes, and half of my other family in a country likely to be invaded. Fortunately the rest is distributed between USA and a country which, despite all the cries, is in no significant danger.
Sorry you in fear of invasion or nuking. I don't mean to say those in the USA will have it the worst of this happens. There is Def safety in the imperial core.
I don't feel the need to compete over who will have it worse, comrade. let's just be on the same side instead🙂
That's more of a joking tone, if it happens, it happens anyway.
MAD is very real and will happen if America launches nukes at anyone so I think every American should be worried about our government deciding to use them.
I'm not sure of that really working, hasn't been tested after all. Shootouts on the streets don't lead to everyone getting shot. So, say, US warns "everybody big" that they are nuking someplace, but don't want to nuke anyone else. If "everybody big" are kinda fine with it, they won't launch nukes in response. That means there's a place nuked and no MAD.
You can be "sick of old men" all you like OP, but are you "sick of democracy, eager to embrace dictatorship?"
This is a good idea for a game!
Volunteer at an old folks’ home. Most old men just want to eat jello and play cards. They’re very sweet! Not power hungry lunatics like these two.
I wish all these two wanted was to eat jello and play cards.
Can't you guys vote for individuals, to deflate the two factions a bit?
Not in our first past the post system. A third-party vote in the presidential election is effectively throwing away your vote. The time to vote for who you want instead of against who you don't is in local elections and primaries.
No. The individuals will work with other like-minded people across the government to accomplish their goals. The party affiliation helps you understand who they will plan to work with and what goals that group will be striving to accomplish. That is ultimately the most important thing to consider when voting: which group will be empowered to advance their goals.
Can we get some young, hot men into office?
I'm Canadian, and while I am critical of Trudeau and Jagmeet Singh, I sure do enjoy LOOKING at them.
Both Sides, comrade?
Usually when I see someone bring up "both sides" it's a conservative like you trying to make people criticizing the democrats seem unreasonable.
Both sides are capitalist and conservative, but of course there are differences. Don't you want more differences?
If you really get people who often "both sides" you, do you wanna know how to shut them the fuck up? You put them in the game! You force them to put their words into action by passing electoral reform. Doing away with First Past The Post voting, getting rid of tge spoiler effect, and make third parties viable.
Make them prove it. Force them to show us how it's done. It's so easy right? Force them into the game and they won't have any "sides" to complain about.
More democracy is the answer, not hoping they vote for your guy.
Criticism of both capitalist parties from a leftist perspective doesn't imply a false equivalence.
Trumps face got pee'd on by a little girl, Biden banged a 12 year old when he was 30. Yeah. Interesting times in Hamburgerland
Didn't Biden literally just say "she was 12, I was 30" in relation to saying hi to someone in the crowd? Not saying that's normal, only acceptable answer here is he was chatting with a friend's child at some point, but also, where is the reference to him fucking her?
Bullshit, "good sir."
Trump was the #1 client on Epstein's list, correct me if I'm wrong.
I will add to this based off comments: I don't KNOW definitively Biden was a diddler. I don't. But the fucker authored the war on drugs crime bill. So he is a monster in his own ways, considering the degree of global suffering that has occurred because of the narcotics trade being outlawed instead of being treated like the health problem it is, e.g the Scandinavian policies on recreational drugs. It should all be taxed, manufactured by governments, and those funds going towards the public good, with addiction resources available to those that need it. People are addicts because they are trying to numb something, typically.
No one has said it in this thread, and there’s a lot of people talking about how they wish there was another option:
I’m voting for the Party for Socialism and Liberation and you can too!
They’re running Claudia de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to Israel.
There are many alternatives.
Pass electoral reform first IMO. Unless critical mass is achieved, we would be spoiling the election. This is why passing electoral reform is of utmost importance.
Democrats clearly understand the faults of First Past The Post voting. Go on any platform and suggest voting third party and the liberals will come in droves to explain the faults of the FPTP voting system.
Okay, you understand the voting system is flawed... then why do we still use FPTP voting? How can you explain these mathematical flaws to people considering voting third party and NOT do anything about the voting system? You don't get to have both.
I don’t buy that. Both major parties, all the donors, the media, the lobbying groups and all the party machines in all fifty states are heavily invested the system we have.
I’m not gonna wait till we tip the whole system over to record a vote that actually represents my political positions.
If the two major parties are afraid of third party spoilers then they can adopt the platforms of those third parties.
Ok, then just be aware that when the pile of votes for 3rd party isn't anywhere near either candidates pile your vote won't matter. Biden and Trump will get the majority of votes and you will lose your chance to impact one of the most important elections in US history because of naive idealisms.
And neither party is afraid of the 3rd party, they use it. They take reasonable minded people who would never vote Republican and push them to 3rd party to weaken the Democrats votes. It's exactly what they did with Bernie and how Trump won. They had massive turn out for the 3rd party that did absolutely nothing but split the Dems and allow the Republicans to be unified. A vote for 3rd party is a vote for Republicans, I know you don't want to believe that reality but it's true.
that's not true.
third party votes provide access to funding, ballot and event presence, media coverage and public awareness. third party votes do matter and they have a measurable positive impact.
third party votes tell the two major parties exactly what positions they need to integrate into their platforms in order to pick up those ballots in those particular districts. even if a person doesn't think it's worthwhile to build support for a third party, a third party ballot is an undeniable record of what the two major parties can do to get your support.
when people start talking about this kind of thing i generally like to bring up perot 92, which had a serious effect on domestic policy and was proven not to be a spoiler multiple times in the years that followed.
This is clown shit lmao
Being a Marxist in 2024 is clown shit as it is, but voting for Marxist-Leninist party in America is just baffling. The cherry on top is that the clown you're planning to vote for has some mighty interesting policy proposals including:
It's like a bad joke, except nobody is laughing. The fact that there are people out there who are so mind numbingly ignorant of economics, government, social politics, history, and geopolitics that they actually think this brain damaged list of policies is a good idea is just sad. Claudia de la Cruz is so bad that she is unironically worse than Trump, and you have to try really, really hard to be worse than Trump. Literally a turd is better than Trump, so for her to be worse is just... wow. Do better, come on.
Even though I'll never vote for either of these genocidal neoliberal freaks, they are not the same. Saying one is bad because he is old is not an acceptable justification and it is ageism. The problem with Biden (regardless of his and his party's political orientation) is the fact that he is simply unsuitable for the job, he clearly doesn't have the mental and physical capacity for it. Trump on the other side (even though he's a fascist and regardless of the insane shit he says) is fine. He has the strength and mental clarity for the job. So don't compare Trump and Biden on this front, Trump can function just fine.
If we toss aside issues of ideology to focus just on technical ability to perform, I think you are missing a key factor. Electing a president is also electing the administration, and a president can only be as good as the people they surround themselves with. Biden knows how to assemble a solid team, while Trump doesn't. Trump is also incapable of listening to food advice, even in the rare instance where he allows it to be given to him.
Look at the issue of the newly expanded presidential immunity. The President is sheltered from prosecution for issuing an illegal order, but his staff is not required to follow that order. Which candidate will surround themselves with people who respect the law, and which candidate will surround themselves with lackeys?
I don't really think you can say for sure who has a better team and whatnot. That's an assumption and besides, Trump has proved that he knows exactly what he is doing with how consistently reactionary and neoliberal his term was. This pretty much shows that the decisions most of the time are not made by him, nor by any "team" he builds, but by the interests behind the conservative party. Likewise for Biden.
I don't want to sound like I'm defending Trump, I hate Trump and anything conservative/right wing with all my heart. I just want people to realize that when all that's left to talk about in public discourse is the mental capacity of the individual candidates and their criminal records, it is a sign of the narrowness of political differences of the parties, of absence of any important political point of confrontation. They have and historically had the same direction and interests with few differences on social issues that don't interfere with their interests. At some point people have to realize both parties are so similar and distant from any actual pressing problem in the world (genocide, climate change, billionaires) that the lesser evil doesn't hold up anymore - in every situation there is always a level of evilness that the lesser evil doesn't hold up when reached by both.
I don't really think you can say for sure who has a better team
Really? Just look at how many members of Trump's campaign and whitehouse staff have been charged or convicted with felonies. Look at how fast he went through chiefs of staff. Look at who is running his campaign today.
You got Trump right as a reactionary, but he is in no way a neoliberal. Neoliberals are not my cup of tea, but they are absolutely nuts for things like civility, following established norms, inclusiveness, immigration, and free trade.
Biden is a lifelong neoliberal who has miraculously made some pretty major moves away from neoliberal policies. It's a shame the term "Bidenomics" flopped, because there really is something to it. The Biden labor department has made significant changes to aid in unionization. The Chips Act and Inflation Reduction Act have brought a lot of key manufacturing back to the US, which is the antithesis of neoliberal doctrine.
Trump's economy was a disaster even before COVID hit. Supply chain issues started with his tariff war, unemployment was already growing, and inflation was already speeding up.
Even a Biden 20 years younger wouldn't be my choice of president but, against Trump, there is no contest.
My brother in Christ, I am Canadian.
@lemmy.world
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Biden already has those codes. If I look at where we started with Trump and where we ended up, and then where Biden picked up and where we ended up, my choice clearly becomes Biden. Trump went from "grab em by the pussy" to Covid to breaking a bunch of laws to an insurrection. Biden cleaned up Trump's mess and avoided a complete imminent global financial collapse. All things considered, I'd rather see Biden over Trump and it's too late to try to swap out Biden.
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