Really?

2 years ago by LOCKMART to c/noncredibledefense

deegeese 300 points 2 years ago

Guy whose cars run into stopped fire trucks thinks he’s an expert on computer vision.

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MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown 106 points 2 years ago

Someone died because one of those cars thought the broadside of a white semi trailer was the sky and drove under it

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bitchkat 8 points 2 years ago

I thought it mistook the semi that was crossing a divided highway as an overpass and attempted to drive under it?

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Lucidlethargy 2 points 2 years ago

This is exactly how Ed Truck died. His capa was detated from his head.

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jubilationtcornpone 55 points 2 years ago

But was it a "stealthy" fire truck??

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thefartographer 23 points 2 years ago

Yes, but the car only had enough low-light cameras but not enough rudimentary AI

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SomeAmateur 31 points 2 years ago

Speaking of fire trucks has anyone here ever read the emergency response procedures for teslas in severe accidents? When I was a volunteer we gave it a look over.

If I remember right, Depending on the model they recommend up to 8,000 gallons (~30k liters) to keep an overheating battery's temp stable in case of fire or exposure to high heat. I'll link the resource page here.

Our engine holds 700 gallons (5.2k liters) and the typical tanker in our area holds 2,000 (7.5k liters)

That's a house fire level response for a single electric vehicle. Just getting that much water moved to a scene would be challenging. We have tankers, but how many city departments can move that much water? You don't see hydrants on highways. And foam is not effective like it is for normal car fires. The future will be interesting for firefighters.

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Successful_Try543 22 points 2 years ago

I found a link on how the Austrian fire workeres handle this. The fire is extinguished first, then the remainders of the car are put into a special roll-off container (Abrollbehälter, AB) and driven to a gravel pit, where the container will be flooded with 21000 litres of water.

https://www.feuerwehrmagazin.de/...

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SomeAmateur 3 points 2 years ago

That's interesting. Tesla says the cars shouldn't be submerged but I wonder if there's any serious consequence if you did?

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Successful_Try543 4 points 2 years ago

After this procedure, the car is irreparably damaged, if this was your question.

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deegeese 11 points 2 years ago

30,000 liters is 30m^3, which is a back yard swimming pool full of water.

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SomeAmateur 14 points 2 years ago

Now imagine a house on fire with a tesla in the garage or multiple vehicle accidents. Now you need that much more

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HellsBelle 6 points 2 years ago

Now imagine having to use 30,000 litres of water for every Tesla/EV on fire while facing extreme drought conditions caused by global warming.

lookin at you Cali

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Voroxpete 21 points 2 years ago

It is especially important to understand that Tesla's struggles with navigation are entirely a result of Elon refusing to equip them with LiDAR. This isn't some "The tech is really new and really complicated and we're still figuring it out" problem. There is a very good solution to most collision avoidance scenarios, but Elon refuses to let them use it because he's an idiot.

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Lucidlethargy 7 points 2 years ago path: 0 13650531 13667195, hotness: undefined, score: 7, children: 0
Tar_alcaran 171 points 2 years ago

For those doing the maths at home:

An F35 who obligingly flies top-towards-you (not exactly something you can do, but hey, maybe they're turning) is all of 10m tall.

An AIM-120C can very comfortably hit a target at 100km.

At that range, the F-35 takes up 26 arcseconds, or 0.007 degrees. That's roughly about the size of this period, at a distance of 3 meters away.

[ . ]

Good luck spotting that in a sky of roughly the same colour, full of other objects.

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jimbolauski 79 points 2 years ago

You can place cameras anywhere, they don't need to be right next to what is being targeted. Nearer ranges will allow AI to misidentify at much higher rates than max standoff ranges of an AIM-120C.

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Hobbes_Dent 48 points 2 years ago

I don’t think you were getting enough credit for ‘misidentify’.

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SARGE 47 points 2 years ago

Pffffffff

I can see that bright white dot against the dark mode background on my maximum brightness screen with ease! Therefore your argument is invalid!

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affiliate 14 points 2 years ago

with a big enough screen i bet an AI camera could see it too

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someguy3 25 points 2 years ago

"I said AI sir!"

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chonglibloodsport 20 points 2 years ago

Just for reference: JWST has an optical resolution of 0.07 arcseconds. It’s a mirror 22 feet in diameter though, not something you’d put inside a missile guidance package.

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Successful_Try543 15 points 2 years ago

JWST operates in space, i.e. there is no atmosphere blurr to take into account.

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chonglibloodsport 10 points 2 years ago

Oh yeah I’m not suggesting we make a missile with JWST mounted on the front!

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reinei 2 points 2 years ago

Well but I am!

Although, we would still need to get it back here... Okay so first we send two more rockets after it! One to return it on and one with the/a human engineer on board to pack it back up.

I mean we can hardly have it return while unpacked. That would damage the delicate heat baffles! And we need those to shield it from the rockt engine at the back of our missile so it doesn't start targeting itself because it no longer knows where it is/isn't...

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RiceMunk 8 points 2 years ago

Holy shit. I just realised that the reason they're building the ELT is so they can mount it on a missile and shoot down an F-35 at some point.

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Ledivin 20 points 2 years ago

Yeah but what about the AI? Have you thought about the AI that would be running it, which never misses, and would totally be a useful existing thing? 😉

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SirQuackTheDuck 6 points 2 years ago

And if it isn't, just frankenstein another AI against it. The solution to lacking AI is more AI, obviously.

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ICastFist 14 points 2 years ago

Magnifying glass makes things bigger, checkmate! 🔍🔍

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KillingTimeItself 7 points 2 years ago

and then also dealing with the F-35 itself, even if you managed to lock on and target it, it will have anti-warfare capabilities you have to contend with.

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Comment105 3 points 2 years ago

Yeah, sure. But that doesn't matter if you point the AI at it with a really good zoom lens, though. And then you have a ton of them, pointed in an directions, like the compound eye of a fly. F35 spotted.

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Tja 153 points 2 years ago

Sir, our air defence is down!

Is it hackers?

No sir, it's cloudy.

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DaddleDew 146 points 2 years ago

If a fighter jet is within visual range of a camera, it's already too late. And that's if there aren't any clouds.

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Slab_Bulkhead 66 points 2 years ago

your not thinking like a musk, not if the government pays the subscription and contract for his early warning camera drone balloon swarm thing or something something they could run on ketamine or something.

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Slab_Bulkhead 4 points 2 years ago

imagine it Smithers my electrical spy drones running all day long! and on the government dime!

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finitebanjo 1 point 2 years ago

Part of the reason air defences mostly rely on radar and other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum from at least 3 locations using triangulation to build a precise map of objects in the sky, but just like cameras that doesn't work when the objects in question are too high or hidden behind objects. From there you can send countermeasures to intercept coordinates and then arm them to search for nearby objects via infrared.

Using the visible part of the electromagnetic spectrum is pretty much useless in modern weapons. I remember seeing even a Tank operator's display being totally jank because they don't use normal cameras either, perhaps because they wanted data to train machines to do it instead of human operators? Idk, didn't make sense to me.

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riodoro1 94 points 2 years ago

His fucking obsession with computer vision. He’s so convinced he’s right he forgot that clouds exist… and his cars plow straight into obstacles.

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Sylvartas 31 points 2 years ago

Yeah, the "lidar is useless" guy whose cars are consistently crashing into things when visibility is bad is telling us that he can do the same thing with missile targeting systems... Sounds like a great idea

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PyroNeurosis 9 points 2 years ago

Yeah, well, missiles are supposed to crash into things. The right things? Not his job.

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Somethingcheezie 26 points 2 years ago

Also night

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riodoro1 28 points 2 years ago

And that a plane at altitude is too small for wide field cameras which means scanning the sky with narrow fov detectors.

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sugar_in_your_tea 12 points 2 years ago

And F-35s are really fast. By the time you recognize and can target it, it'll fly behind a cloud or something. So not only do you need to make a really fast rocket w/ vision-based AI integrated, it also needs to be able to detect said plane at great distances, as well as maneuver well enough to see it as it exits clouds and whatnot. That's a lot more complicated than slapping radar on something with heat tracking at close distances.

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einfach_orangensaft 3 points 2 years ago path: 0 13657543 13658463 13658499 13663504 13674551, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
bestboyfriendintheworld 1 point 2 years ago

Wouldn’t matter for IR vision, which the F-35 already has.

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Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 3 points 2 years ago

My friend bought a red car specifically so it could be seen by Tesla's cameras.

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carpelbridgesyndrome 3 points 2 years ago

I have bad news for him. They can't see firetrucks reliably.

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el_bhm 2 points 2 years ago

No no. See guessing objects from flat images is much better than using math and lidar. Especially if you may have a flawed llm model.

Given how advanced our math and knowledge of radar is, it is literally stupid to use them.

See, those, radar, lidar and math give you a 3d objects.

Oh, wait. It is the other way around.

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ChaoticNeutralCzech 1 point 2 years ago

He's not, otherwise he would know that "low light sensitivity" cameras aren't "sensitive in low-light conditions" but "with lower than normal light sensitivity".

In an imaginary world where cameras are way more expensive, he'd absolutely be pushing LiDAR in cars. The metrics he cares about are cost and marketability (cool factor), or money for short.

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jewbacca117 82 points 2 years ago
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slaacaa 46 points 2 years ago

Elon Denegerate

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thefartographer 10 points 2 years ago

Watch as he dances under every low bar

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carpelbridgesyndrome 14 points 2 years ago

Easy. Just build a giant ball of telescopes and ban water

Edit: Kinda forgot about the horizon. Ban the earth too. Better yet ask the physicists to borrow their ideal frictionless vacuum.

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Hobbes_Dent 2 points 2 years ago

MY LENS IS DIRTY REEEeee oh wait I found alcohol.

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Diplomjodler3 73 points 2 years ago

That fucker really thinks he's so smart when all he does is constantly demonstrate what an idiot he is.

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1SimpleTailor 29 points 2 years ago

His rise really is symbolic of the rot that has taken hold of our society. Truly, our most degenerate moron has risen to the top of the shit pile.

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MaggiWuerze 1 point 2 years ago

Look up Peter Prinzip

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Vendetta9076 71 points 2 years ago

Elon Musk is an idiot

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Goldholz 70 points 2 years ago

Says the guy that produces AND designed the cyber truck

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slurpeesoforion 28 points 2 years ago

Look. Just because people hope to not see it and actively avoid looking in the general direction of, does not make the cyber truck invisible.

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phoenixz 6 points 2 years ago

Oh, if only... If then the owners could be invisible too... One can dream

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centipede_powder 65 points 2 years ago

"It a shit design" is rich coming from the guy whos company can't get panels to line up on a car.

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lightnsfw 35 points 2 years ago

"It's a shit design" Says the man responsible for this:

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sugar_in_your_tea 3 points 2 years ago

For some reason my kids love them, I just don't see it. It's unique, I guess...

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dmention7 15 points 2 years ago

I don't have kids, but when I was a kid I loved Spaghetti-Os and that candy that comes in a toothpaste tube but is literally just gelatinous sugar syrup. I probably would've loved the cybertruck too.

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Tyfud 3 points 2 years ago
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vaultdweller013 2 points 2 years ago

It also weighs enough that it cant even pull off being decent by being light like old jeeps. Sure they were literally brick shaped but they could be moved by like 4 guys with relative ease.

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themoonisacheese 1 point 2 years ago

It's in fortnite

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sugar_in_your_tea 1 point 2 years ago

Well, my kids don't play Fortnite, at least not at our house (family rule). So if that's the case, it's because their friends told them about it.

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wizzor 55 points 2 years ago

Also... Fighters are fast, the point is you should fire the missile before you see it.

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Alwaysnownevernotme 52 points 2 years ago

The f-35 is built for engagements outside the horizon, like, the target is blocked by the curvature of the earth.

Light sensitive cameras and rudimentary AI..

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jonne 13 points 2 years ago

Pssh, all you need is a gravity lens to bend the light, problem solved!

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frezik 14 points 2 years ago

So we use a black hole to bend space time and look into the past where it isn't. We know where it isn't in the past.

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affiliate 7 points 2 years ago

but have you considered that if i can’t see it then it doesn’t exist?

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wizzor 2 points 2 years ago

Hmm, that's a good point, like air, right? Total scam.

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affiliate 1 point 2 years ago

dont even get me started on air

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DaddleDew 51 points 2 years ago

Looks like being rich and surrounding yourself with yes-people is the #1 cause of sitting confidently at the top of the Dunning-Krueger curve.

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SamuraiBeandog 12 points 2 years ago

He's riding that curve like one of those surfing dogs.

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DaddleDew 6 points 2 years ago

I think the better analogy is that he has set up camp on top of Mount Stupid and ain't moving from it.

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Hobbes_Dent 2 points 2 years ago

People will pilgrimage to the peak of Mount Stupid to pray at the alter of his HYPEoxia.

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LongLive 3 points 2 years ago path: 0 13651205 13662495, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 0
starman2112 45 points 2 years ago

Can't these things aerosolize you from beyond the fucking horizon? How helpful are those AI powered low light cameras when they're phase transitioned by a missile launched from a hundred miles away?

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CanadaPlus 18 points 2 years ago

You'd need a camera network spanning the entire battlefield. And it'd need telephoto lenses at the very least, because stealth fighters are high and small. And it'd need to stay connected after an initial missile exchange.

I don't buy for a moment that nobody in the Pentagon has thought of this, and explained why it's not a dealbreaker in a classified report.

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Buddahriffic 3 points 2 years ago

Telephoto lenses have a low field of vision. You'd want very high resolution wide angle sensors. Or maybe a combination of the two, where the wide angle cameras spot interesting things for the narrow angle ones to look closer at.

The difference between the two would be like when they went from U2 spy planes to satellite imagery, going from thin strips of visibility to "here's the hemisphere containing most of Russia".

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CanadaPlus 2 points 2 years ago

The trick being that wide angle and high resolution means very high expense, and probably a lot of power and ruggedness tradeoffs. For a satellite that's fine, for this application I kind of think a cluster of narrow-view cameras would be way cheaper and more practical.

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bestboyfriendintheworld 1 point 2 years ago

BVR and over the horizon radar has been around for decades.

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CanadaPlus 1 point 2 years ago

We're talking about stealth jets here, though...

They don't give much of a conventional radar return. Which is why Musk even brought up his definitely-new definitely-original idea.

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KillingTimeItself 44 points 2 years ago

"laughably easy to take down fighter jets"

yeah all you have to do is ban the kid running the elon jet twitter. Seems easy enough to me.

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SirQuackTheDuck 13 points 2 years ago

Nah man, just use AI with night cameras. It's never cloudy or foggy anyway.

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KillingTimeItself 1 point 2 years ago

rookie mistake, can't believe i forgot about this.

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finitebanjo 38 points 2 years ago

Let me guess, he's got an alternative to sell?

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superkret 13 points 2 years ago

He has Tesla's "Full Self Driving" system, which works with AI and cameras.
He probably wants to just upload his software to US fighter jets for, say, $20 million per unit.

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AVincentInSpace 9 points 2 years ago

He has Tesla’s “Full Self Driving” system, which works

well there you've already told your first lie

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Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 2 points 2 years ago

They used air bunnies. S'all good.

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finitebanjo 2 points 2 years ago

It might actually cost way more than that, changing the jet's balance and attaching things to them requires major modifications, but him selling the the systems for that alone sounds about right.

Maybe the real plan is to intentionally fuck it up and weaken the US Military. Wouldn't put it past the Trump admin.

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superkret 3 points 2 years ago

The real plan is to claim they did it (or tried to) and pocketing that sweet DOD money.

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finitebanjo 1 point 2 years ago

The least credible defense of all: "We tried (not really)."

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jas0n 9 points 2 years ago

Sucking up to Putin. The next thing he will say is all 2 su57s in existence are much more advanced.

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whotookkarl 37 points 2 years ago

"Théoden no longer recognizes friend from foe. Not even his own kin. Saruman has poisoned the mind of the king and claimed lordship over this land. My company are those loyal to Rohan. And for that, we are banished." - Èomer, The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers

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billwashere 33 points 2 years ago

Jesus christ ... this dude is a fucking moron... if it WAS easy defense companies would be doing it already... and guess what, they aren't. Between this dickhead and Captain Brainworm the next four years are gonna SUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKK!!!

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Maggoty 3 points 2 years ago

I'm looking forward to someone reminding Trump about the carrier catapults.

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LANIK2000 29 points 2 years ago

He's just a dumb attention seeker. Of course he's gonna shit on the most over-engineered thing in existence. Tho the context of the shitty engineering his companies do makes this even funnier. What a loser.

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jaemo 29 points 2 years ago

TONY STARK WAS ABLE TO BUILD THIS WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS, ELON.

IN A CAVE YOU FUCKING INBRED. A CAVE!!!

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Phoeniqz 28 points 2 years ago

FTFY

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ddplf 26 points 2 years ago

MUH AY-EI

Did he replace his brain with AI already? Because it sure fucking looks like it.

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spankmonkey 22 points 2 years ago

He has always been this stupid.

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skulblaka 12 points 2 years ago

His greatest achievement has been buying contracts that state he has invented things that he didn't invent.

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don 24 points 2 years ago

Dude’s brain is shit design and fucking sucks, actually

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Maggoty 23 points 2 years ago

Just use multiple nuclear power plants to power an AI that constantly scans the sky.

Are we sure he's not an NCD poster?

Edit to add - Musk unlocked the achievement, personal enemy of the DoD and entire defense industry. I'm getting popcorn for this.

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GissaMittJobb 20 points 2 years ago

What a fucking loser

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Antiproton 20 points 2 years ago

He isn't smart. He's just a narcissist that lives deep in the warm embrace of Dunning-Kuger

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Kowowow 20 points 2 years ago

Mr richest man on earth with tesla and space x doesn't even have an electric private jet

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CanadaPlus 17 points 2 years ago

In the long term maybe he has a point. In the short term the other guys are often using a radar built in 1985 and displaying to a ray tube.

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absentbird 8 points 2 years ago

But also, how far can low light sensitive cameras see into the sky? Maybe a couple miles with some sort of telescopic optics? The F35 can attack from beyond visual range using its 100 mile range radar system.

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CanadaPlus 1 point 2 years ago

Up to the horizon (and actually slightly past due to lensing). The setting sun is a perfect example. Sure, it's brighter than a single fighter aircraft, but as long as you have double digit individual photons to work with the game hasn't changed theoretically, and light collection technology is right around perfect at this point.

Continuous cloud cover messes up that calculation pretty good, though. If this kind of system was seriously deployed today we might see pre-WWII tactics and strategies coming back to exploit that. In practice, sensor fusion in all kinds of bands is the name of the game, and what will probably make stealth aircraft obsolete eventually.

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absentbird 2 points 2 years ago

Sensor fusion is another F-35 feature. Elon seems to think visible spectrum cameras are all you need. Even if you could capture a couple dozen photos reflected off a fighter jet from miles away, how could you reasonably know it's speed, distance, and location like you get with radar?

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SuperZorro 1 point 2 years ago

How big of an area of the sky is that going to cover? And clouds?

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CanadaPlus 1 point 2 years ago

Sky coverage is just a matter of replicating one telephoto unit a couple hundred times or whatever to cover the horizon. Clouds are a game-breaker in the optical frequencies - when they're there.

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deaf_fish 5 points 2 years ago

Yeah, while we are at it. Everything sucks compared to the starship enterprise. You can't beat photon torpedoes and shields. All current military technology sucks.

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CanadaPlus 2 points 2 years ago

Elon Musk's next idea is to just power everything with fusion. It's easy! There's deuterium everywhere!

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jia_tan 12 points 2 years ago

Bro forgor about IFR conditions 💀

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HK65 11 points 2 years ago

Or the curvature of the Earth

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jia_tan 11 points 2 years ago

Or BVR fights

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JoShmoe 12 points 2 years ago

Well if we’re on shitting on his character. This man had the opportunity to change the approach to implementing neuralink tech to make it less destructive but instead chose to continue with their direction. A direct competitor has since proven that there was no need to be so invasive.

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wizardbeard 2 points 2 years ago

I'm glad it's been officially proven by a competitior. I've been shouting that since articles came out about the first human test subject. All of that invasive surgery, issues with the brain tissue pushing out some of the wires, and the best denonstrable result is that he can use a computer mouse with his mind?

There are so many damn options for accessibility with computer control (even mouse control) that don't involve invasive brain surgery, and we know that we can monitor brain activity pretty clearly through sensors on the scalp.

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Rentlar 11 points 2 years ago path: 0 13651552, hotness: undefined, score: 11, children: 0
Taleya 10 points 2 years ago

He is uncomfortable when we are not about him

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BonerMan 9 points 2 years ago

Small reminder that this assheads gets a gobbernment position

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Hobbes_Dent 3 points 2 years ago

Gobbment adjacent so pesky conflict of interest goes away.

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Olhonestjim 7 points 2 years ago

Send one after him then.

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Smokeydope 6 points 2 years ago

Assuming this is OC, next time do a little better at cropping and scaling. Ypu move that plane to the far right under yhe arrow and youve got 2/3 of the blank canvas to work with. I don't expect much effort on meme post especially NDC but I would like to actually be able to read the tweets without zooming in and theres enough white space to scale them up.

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Davidjjdj 1 point 2 years ago

Hopefully not the same elementary AI and cameras as the Tesla's. The missiles would be aiming for barricades on the highway

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PunnyName 0 points 2 years ago

Fuck em both.

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kamenlady 16 points 2 years ago

Elon and Musk?

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PunnyName 1 point 2 years ago

Mush and the plane

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MaggiWuerze 8 points 2 years ago

one figuratively and the other literally, right?

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Killer57 -2 points 2 years ago

I mean, in comparison to some of the F-22 variants, the F-35 is a pretty big piece of shit.

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phoenixz 3 points 2 years ago

That VERY much depends on mission requirements. The F35 has issues, but calling it a big piece of shit shows that you're an internet troll who has no idea what it's talking about

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Madison420 2 points 2 years ago

No, the designers will tell you the same. It's a compromise, it's not perfect at anything but it's very good at most of it's intended purposes. It's that old addage don't let perfect be the enemy of great.

Don't get me wrong I still think it's smiling idiot twin is the cooler plane.

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noncredibledefense
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A community for your defence shitposting needs

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