I would also accept "did you just call me a fucking nazi?"
Tar_alcaran 148 points 2 years ago
Kusimulkku 100 points 2 years ago
If you ask someone who isn't a Nazi if they're a Nazi out of nowhere then confusion seems pretty valid. If there's a premise to it that they understand (by being Nazis or acting like ones) you'd get less genuine confusion.
E: I wasn't talking about the specific case in OP but in general
Soulg 14 points 2 years ago
Is there something about the tabletop portion of the community I don't get? I just like the lore of the universe and if someone asked me if I was a nazi based on that I would be very confused.
mnemonicmonkeys 31 points 2 years ago
Think about it this way, if you joined WWII reenactment, you'll mostly come across guys that have a general interest in WWII and will play the role of most factions (including Germany if needed). But you will also run into guys who are enthusiastically on the German side 90% and less happy playing anything else. That second guy is most likely a Nazi but tries to maintain plausible deniability
Oni_eyes 8 points 2 years ago
I too am confused about the correlation since I've never run into nazis playing 40k. Though to be fair I run slaaneshi chaos so I don't think I'm in their demo of black templars.
MothmanDelorian 4 points 2 years ago
The Imperium of Man is overtly fascistic. Some really like this bit for all the wrong reasons
Hupf 8 points 2 years ago
Hellsing Abridged on the topic.
AngryCommieKender 4 points 2 years ago
Why did the guy feel the need to announce that they are, in fact, Nazis? The giant swastika is a bit of a giveaway
Kusimulkku 4 points 2 years ago
Right, in that context it wouldn't be.
nickhammes 27 points 2 years ago
Yeah but even if there's some initial confusion, most normal people will get to a clear negative answer pretty quickly.
Kusimulkku 7 points 2 years ago
That's true. But I'd definitely also want to know what prompted the question
mnemonicmonkeys 1 point 2 years ago
If you know anything about 40K, the prompt should be self-evident
ComfortableRaspberry 17 points 2 years ago
Meh depends on the setting. My partner and I are organizing smaller concerts from time to time. If we are about to book an unknown band sooner or later we have to ask the Nazi question.
The setting here feels similar.
cactusupyourbutt 5 points 2 years ago
what do you look for in their responses?
surely they dont go „oh yeah we are nazis, you got us“
ComfortableRaspberry 6 points 2 years ago
It's not about "getting someone". The concerts are in clubs that have a zero tolerance. If there's a Nazi band on the stage shit will hit the fan. This may range from other bands refusing to play in the same stage to people attacking each other.
You get usually two kind of responses: People are pretty clear in their response: "Of course not" or "Fuck Nazis" are the usual replies here.
Then there are others who get offended or try to discuss what Nazi means. That's a "yes" in disguise and enough to not book them.
Kusimulkku 4 points 2 years ago
Of course setting, their actions and whatnot matter. It isn't out of nowhere if there's some context for it that the recipient also understands.
mnemonicmonkeys 6 points 2 years ago
In 40k where the Imperium are outright fascists, the context is already there
buddascrayon 30 points 2 years ago
This is the answer right here.
stevedice 27 points 2 years ago
Tbf, if someone asked to join my discord server and asked if we're Nazis I would also ask for further clarification. Not because there's a chance we might be Nazis but because it's an odd question.
damnedfurry 23 points 2 years ago
Non-Nazis will say, "What?
This is also 'getting confused', to be fair, lol.
I get the impression that even those agreeing with the Nazi-like stuff are not literally self-identifying as "Nazi", so I think you'll get that initial "huh" reaction regardless.
Might be better to ask a more specific telltale question.
alcoholicorn 1 point 2 years ago
I mean if they go "well the left calls anyone they don't like nazis, what even is a nazi", they're a nazi.
Artyom 123 points 2 years ago
So did The Boys and Helldiver's 2, and yet a substantial population of conservatives took it literally. Now The Boys has to be so blatant, it's not as funny anymore.
Some people are just idiots, just the way it is.
LadyMeow 68 points 2 years ago
Lmao about the boys. I started watching that and definitely in the first season it wasn’t even subtle, by the 4th season, which apparently is when conservatives got mad (?), it was beating you into submission with the messaging. Like, subtlety was not even in the lexicon, more like bulldozing you.
tigeruppercut 14 points 2 years ago
Maybe if they paid more attention in English (and history) class, they wouldn't miss subtext the size of a tractor trailer running into them. But conservatives and STEM bros almost always seem to be on the same page with that shit "No one needs English classes, it's always just like 'hur the curtains are blue' bro."
Contramuffin 19 points 2 years ago
Science here - a lot of my fellow scientists like the humanities and definitely are not missing the point. At least in the pure sciences, we tend to encourage all education, regardless of field.
Just be aware that STEM encompasses way more people than you're specifically referring to
EldritchFeminity 13 points 2 years ago
They see the part that gives them a confirmation bias and willfully ignore the rest of the message.
As the saying goes: Spread the facts on the floor like a fan, and throw away the ones that make you feel bad.
qjkxbmwvz 12 points 2 years ago
I'd like to know more.
In all seriousness though, I thought it had some aspects of good, which was odd given that it's satirical commentary on fascism. For instance, gender didn't really matter and women were promoted, and while the shower scene was meant to show how fascism castrates the masses (or something like that, iirc), I thought it was a relatively wholesome scene, all things considered.
frezik 1 point 2 years ago
Sorta, not really.
The book is notable for its almost complete lack of sex on any level. The protagonist goes on a date with a woman at one point. That's about it. A shower scene where everyone is naked but nobody is horny would fit right in.
Stranger in a Strange Land, OTOH, goes completely the other way. I was reading that book on vacation, and a friend picked it up and peeked at a page about halfway through and started reading it out loud. The last half of that book is basically pornography, so . . .
chemical_cutthroat 4 points 2 years ago
Put it in a sock first.
jabathekek 2 points 2 years ago
I like to use bars of soap personally.
NakariLexfortaine 2 points 2 years ago
I already filled the sock with quarters.
I like the noise when it hits.
Bronzebeard 3 points 2 years ago
Half of America has the literacy of a 5-6th grader. They can understand the words, but not the "deep"er meaning of things. If it's not explicitly spelled out by name, they won't connect the dots.
If you'll recall, their defense of the quid pro quo during the Ukraine impeachment was that he never used the phrase quid pro quo, so he could have done that.
They're that stupid
TempermentalAnomaly 50 points 2 years ago
Hominy_Hank 14 points 2 years ago
So, I have read and been told this many times before. Some times I will rewatch the movie to try and see that narrative. And I'll admit, I'm and idiot. But I can't get past the idea of: Bugs are just icky, no matter the size. Remove at all costs.
Zozano 28 points 2 years ago
Except they aren't bugs in your home, they're isolated to their own planet already.
Plus, consider the justification for the attack;
"the bugs attacked Earth first"
REALLY?
Consider the amount of maths and physics knowledge for us to get to our own moon. We have to calculate the trajectory of our own moon, the spin of the Earth, gravity, etc.
Now, in the movie, apparently the bugs bombed Earth.
FUCKING HOW. They exist outside our solar system. The level of maths for this is impossible without computers.
Not only have you got all the complications we had for a celestial body which was closest to us, but our sun has its own orbit within the milky way.
The narrative that the bugs attacked Earth first was a false flag. It was almost certainly just a meteor which couldn't be stopped, which gave someone a reason to keep the perpetual motion machine of Fascism alive.
Without a common enemy, Fascism turns inwards.
Olhonestjim 12 points 2 years ago
It's very likely that the Earth military lobbed it toward earth as a pretext for war. The big planet was light years away (across the galaxy? I forget) and there was propaganda extolling the orbital defenses of Earth right before the hit. They had an orbital ring station around the Moon! No way they could miss a rock that big.
So_zetta_slowpoke 8 points 2 years ago
Lol alright, so earlier in the movie, Carmen is learning to fly the spaceship and has an accident where the run into the asteroid, which changes its trajectory and sends it to Earth, where it hits Buenos Aires. Carmen caused the whole thing 🤣
Hominy_Hank 2 points 2 years ago
Okay, sure. But how is the bugs attacking first unlikely, when they are able to calculate that kind of interstellar trajectory to colonize all the other planets in their empire? They shoot spores into space and hit other planets to colonize.
Why could the bugs not have shot a colonizing spore at earth, or another human controlled planet, and that was perceived as an attack? The bugs empire rivaled the human empire after all.
Or am I missing something obvious here?
lurch 12 points 2 years ago
The most satire parts are not about fighting the bugs. The "only a dead ... is a good ..." is a classic fascist trope, but it's the parts about disregard of human life and health and the propaganda in the movie that really mock fascism.
Hominy_Hank 2 points 2 years ago
Disregard to human life and health isn't limited to a fascist government though. As for the propaganda, I always took that at making fun of the military and their over the top commercials and other media.
I never compared it to the actual government.
Johanno 9 points 2 years ago
I watched it way back when I was young and didn't get any of the satire. I watched in my 20s and I asked myself:
You have technology to move through space and shit, they could just rain bombs from orbit or throw asteroids onto the planet. But no! The best way to fight is to use masses of underquipped soldiers that fight the horrors of bugs.
The war seems secondary, killing soldiers looks like the first priority in these movies.
Hominy_Hank 2 points 2 years ago
Let's just say that the government does just rain bombs from orbit. They are humans, there are gonna be dudes that want to get their feet on the ground to start shooting things. Regardless of the type of government, humans are creatures of destruction. People are gonna want to shoot an alien bug for a multitude of reasons. Glory, honor, to prove themselves, fascist government or not, people will be lining up around the block to sign up for an interstellar opportunity to be a 'badass'.
L0rdMathias 2 points 2 years ago
I will never understand how they made the entire movie and then had any possible thought people would understand their perspective. The problem is they got lost in the utopia part of the fascist utopia. Sure their culture looks weird from our perspective and has a fascist paint job., but is it really that bad of a society to live in as depicted? Everyone is depicted as generally agreeing with society and it's norms, society seems to filter people into the roles that actually let them reach the best of their own abilities and that of the culture. No semblance or poverty or even elitism -- except against bugs which are mindless as far as the audience knows. The closest we get to seeing that the bugs might be sentient is a psychic dude telling us that a prisoner of war is feeling fear while it is bound, defeated, and surrounded by its enemies.
Hominy_Hank 3 points 2 years ago
The bugs colonized entire planets and has an empire that rivals the humans. That is far from being a mindless, non-sentient creature. If anything that screams they are more intelligent than humans because the bugs just shoot massive spores into space to accomplish all that.
AngryCommieKender 2 points 2 years ago
Silkworms are bugs, as are honeybees
Hominy_Hank 3 points 2 years ago
You won't find me hanging out with them, I'm afraid.
SkyezOpen 2 points 2 years ago
The most blatant satire part of the movie (imo) is when the recruiter with the prosthetic arm says "the mobile infantry made me the man I am today" and scoots his chair back revealing both legs missing.
Also near the end when NPH shows up in what is almost a direct copy of an SS uniform. It's a bit on the nose.
The brilliance of the movie is you follow the main characters who are 100% indoctrinated into this shit. There's really no voice of reason. Nothing (aside from the whole nazi uniform thing) really screams fash if you're not paying attention.
blazeknave 0 points 2 years ago
Black Mirror: Men Against Fire S03E05 will help you figure it out
buddascrayon 33 points 2 years ago
Well, the book is... The movie tho, yeah Paul Verhoeven has opinions about fascists. 😂
His commentary on that film is truly one of the better commentary tracks I've ever listened to.
psmgx 2 points 2 years ago
The book is super pro military; arguably it's a political science treatise arguing about the nature of the monopoly of violence and, given that concept, how society inevitably flows. He also throws a few digs in there at communism.
He then dedicates the rest of the book to figuring out the training and doctrinal approaches of literal space marines.
A_Union_of_Kobolds 9 points 2 years ago
The book was
MothmanDelorian 1 point 2 years ago path: 0 14655774 14655915 14658236 14659124 14676134, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
DicJacobus 107 points 2 years ago
I was briefly into 40k in the 00s, but once the 2010s started I slowly started getting an ick feeling from it but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
specifically, I was still cool with most of the lore, but the Imperium fanboys were getting to be unfun to be around. As I got older and wised up, I figured out around the same time many others did, that these same people just had a fascism fetish in general.
so with all that said.
Death to the false emperor Let the galaxy burn BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
MathiasTCK 3 points 2 years ago
Stillz got Orkz
Skua 15 points 2 years ago
I also played around the same time as you, but by total chance almost our entire group played xenos. I was craftworlds and harlequins, there was a necron player, a tau player, a tyranids player, and an orks player. We had one space marine player, I had a very small grey knights army, the necron guy had a small guard army, and a couple of chaos players. It was quite jarring to see how much GW and the hobby at large focussed on the Imperium
DicJacobus 3 points 2 years ago
i never even got to the play stage. I got frustrated with the cost of materials, and having to learn how to paint, it was like trying to run 2 hobbies at once. ended up selling my stuff. so my interest was mostly video games. and still then, theres only a handful of 40K games I liked
tried it again in the later 2010s, same effect, i wont make the mistake a 3rd time.
Skua 7 points 2 years ago
If the setting and tabletop gameplay interest you but the craft and painting side plus the associated cost puts you off, it might be worth looking into Tabletop Simulator. Basically a virtual tabletop, and one of the many things you can play on it is WH40k - and now, of course, all the models come pre-"painted" and at no additional cost per model
DicJacobus 1 point 2 years ago
I moved into wargaming with lego instead, some of the communities / games they just make their own lore too. I find it more entertaining than subscribing to the whims of a 5 billion dollar company.
Matombo 2 points 2 years ago
yeah played as a child, first lotr, then fantasy and then a little bit of 40k
for 40k i had a space marine army because they where in the starter box and i liked the bolters, but besides the generic space marines (which could be painted in any color sceme you liked) there where just the wolf chapter (grey wolfs or something?) and the blood angles back then, the other armies where all different races and in my local gw every faction was present.
but a year ago i dusted off my collection, got back into lotr (now mesbg), it was always my main game, but also took a look at the warhammer stuff on the gw website:
More then half the fucking 40k factions are now different flavors of space marines! What happened to coming up with own lore for your space marine chapter/color scheme?
There are now even space marines in fantasy! WTF?! (Stormcast Eternals)
psmgx 5 points 2 years ago
GW became a publicly traded company and has to keep the stock price up. This means flogging whatever sells and pandering to whoever will pay, which means Space Marines all the time for everyone.
drunkpostdisaster 7 points 2 years ago
I played Imps and I still cannot wrap my head around people thinking the empire is the good guy. The appeal to me is that they are normal people pulled into an unfair and cruel world led by people who are entirely indifferent to their suffering. The best IG stories always involve a lot of infighting.
These days I don't really tell people I am into it.
tetris11 3 points 2 years ago
It sounds like most people who are really into superhero comics, then start to question the whole "let these elites fight for their brand of justice without the consent of anyone else" and then you wonder what your principles are.
Mine currently swing between "huh, maybe elites with a good code of conduct is a net win" and "huh, maybe anarchy is ideal form of state".
TimewornTraveler 7 points 2 years ago
this is an edit on an older green text, but the premise was gym, based, and cringe.
MathiasTCK 7 points 2 years ago
Makes sense. It is an oft discussed trend though. There are large unmoderated 40k FB groups they are very focused on anti trans activism and Trump worship, and smaller GB groups that are, worse.
There are also plenty of fine groups, or at least groups that put miniature photos firsts.
YouTube is similarly split between creepy Black Templar afficionados and channels more like my recent fav Shining Nathan
https://youtu.be/ufiwszsw-Eg?si=IFpGoA4EaiI_mfRt
40k Brunch Gossip Episode 1 #warhammer40k
But you didn't hear it from me.
Sunsofold 3 points 2 years ago
With how much of it felt like pure dice luck when I was interested, it ended up seeming like you'd be financially better off if you were gambling in a more direct way while also discussing lore for fun. At least you'd have a chance of coming out ahead.
twice_hatch 40 points 2 years ago
It might be the same phenomenon as bimbofication / puppygirl stuff, where one longs to be released from the responsibility of thinking
WorldsDumbestMan 3 points 2 years ago
I have plenty of experience there
undergroundoverground 5 points 2 years ago
We got football, pints and coke for that, mate
Wait a minute
atempuser23 22 points 2 years ago path: 0 14666561 14675564, hotness: undefined, score: 22, children: 0
ArbitraryValue 53 points 2 years ago
The good groups are the ones who are very interested in fantasy Nazis ironically.
RizzRustbolt 12 points 2 years ago
A railgun the size of the Eiffel Tower strapped to mech. Can't get more competent than that.
NaibofTabr 8 points 2 years ago
Haha dead Nazis
ArchmageAzor 37 points 2 years ago
It's quite simple really.
If they play the Death Korps of Krieg, who look like 
they're probably really nice people.
drunkpostdisaster 6 points 2 years ago
The funny thing is that they are closer to soviet ideology then nazi. It's a pitty because if you understand 40k they are the poster boys for how fucked up and insane the galaxy is.
MothmanDelorian 2 points 2 years ago
Are we going to kill Nazis?
TaiCrunch 9 points 2 years ago
So as someone who isn't too familiar with Warhammer, why are Nazis drawn to it? I know a few people that are alt-right, headed toward Neo-Nazi territory, that are all deeply into Warhammer. Is it like another Punisher situation?
Naia 18 points 2 years ago
I don't know much about it either, but in general conservatives and the right at large have no media literacy. Everything is shallow and face value to them. They see pro military crushing stuff deemed "lesser" and they basically get off on it.
It's the same reason for right wing star trek fans. They see space military and ignore all the themes and other things like the fact there is no capitalism. It's always pushed left ideas, yet only now it's "gone woke" because it's pushing modern left ideas, not stiff they've learned to ignore.
Just look at any media made by conservatives for conservatives. It's terrible and the kind of wish fulfillment youd expect from a child telling a story.
TheOakTree 12 points 2 years ago
I'm not too knowledgable on all the lore, but iirc:
- Space Marines are engineered supersoldiers who see humans as puny livestock
- The leader is an emperor, also known as god-emperor, whose word is law
- Pretty much all of their technological advancements exist to kill/control
- Their creed is basically to eradicate all non-believers (heretics) and non-humans (unless the non-humans can benefit them)
- Slavery is pretty much the standard for punishing people who oppose the god-emperor (if not death)
- A lot of other things
Basically, the entire main faction is a hyper-fascist, fundamentalist, imperial, and ultra-violent organization. A lot of the other factions operate with a similar amount of cruelty and violence.
The point is that no faction in Warhammer can really be known as "the good guys." I always perceived the 40k universe as a caricature of some of the worst aspects of mankind, but I play along as a cog in the machine, knowing it's bad. Neo-nazis tend to perceive the Astartes/Space Marines as glorious heroes. It's akin to alt-righters enjoy Starship Troopers and Rage Against the Machine, without recognizing the irony.
Bronzebeard 8 points 2 years ago
The humans in that scenario are a group of super "racist" anti-xeno, ultra religious fascists. So less a punisher situation (which is just moron right wingers not being familiar with the source material, where punisher actually kills those things blue line corrupt cops) and more of a moron right wingers not understanding satire and taking things too seriously, thinking humans are the good guys, despite being clearly terrible.
OmegaCloud -4 points 2 years ago
Neo-nazi nowadays just means "people I don't like and, or disagree politically", WH40K tends to push the envelope and it's edgy and over the top too, also being very conservative in its setting to the point of extremism (entirely justified in-universe), Blue sky (formerly Twitter) progressives not knowing how to separate fiction from reality tend to think and subsequently label the fans as "nazis" thinking they spouse the same ideology as the Imperium of Man (the "good" human faction). Is there Neo-Nazis among the fandom? Sure, but it's more of a "Moustache-man drank water too" kind of situation.
DrFistington 7 points 2 years ago
I remember when one of the few games workshop stores that existed opened by me years ago so I went in to take a look. Everyone was nice and the worker there gave me a free primed mini fig. But the most memorable thing was the unwavering stench of body odor in the air
Comrade_Spood 2 points 2 years ago
I am a huge Warhammer 40k fan and I once met someone who was also a 40k fan. Dude said he played Imperium cause he was (and he said this with zero irony) a "human supremacist." Genuinely though the Imperium were good guys. I feel like it's needless to say, but I stopped talking to him.
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If you ask someone if they are Nazis, and their answer is to get confused and ask about the premise of the question, there is about a 90% chance they are Nazis. Non-Nazis will say, "What? No, definitely not."
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