The cruelty is the point, as per standard procedure.
Three children zip-tied at the San Antonio immigration court, ages 9-12
a year ago by Sunshine (she/her) to c/boycottus
Diplomjodler3 75 points a year ago
hddsx -7 points a year ago
Tying up minors in itself may or may not be unreasonable. Zip ties are a common field hand cuff. That being said, if anyone hasn’t shown a need to be restrained (ie. Violent), they should not be restrained
LandedGentry 79 points a year ago path: 0 17379920 17380260 17380801, hotness: undefined, score: 79, children: 9
Narauko -2 points a year ago
You cannot let this be normal to you. You should look at this picture, learn the context, and be disgusted. Not hem and haw about it>
Edit I found the article, but somewhat disappointed that the context is one of the last comments with minimal engagement or up votes. Is there context available for this picture? I have not seen an article associated with it, just comments in the thread comparing ICE to Nazis. I can't think of many instances where zip tieing or handcuffing children is appropriate, but that is not the same as there never being such an instance.
I don't want to fall for rage bait, like with the "US Citizen Deported" headlines for citizen children going with their deported parents. Not that I am saying that is ok either, as any rush to deport where lawyers have not had time to be involved to ensure deported parents have all their options fully explored to ensure what is best for the children is a gross miscarriage of justice caused by a criminally understaffed immigration system, but misrepresenting what is happening by calling it deportation of US citizens doesn't help.
If this is in immigration court then no one should be cuffed outside of provenly dangerous individuals because it creates a subconscious bias of guilt, which is why it's not allowed in regular court. Also any cop that cannot maintain control of a single child under 10 without cuffs doesn't belong in physical law enforcement.
That being said, I can't say that physical restraints are never appropriate for both officer and detainee safety in any situation, because sometimes it most certainly is.
LandedGentry 3 points a year ago path: 0 17379920 17380260 17380801 17403987 17404084, hotness: undefined, score: 3, children: 7
TheLowestStone 31 points a year ago
Oh yeah, you think that 9 year old may have been a threat?
LandedGentry 1 point a year ago path: 0 17379920 17380260 17381034 17381536 17390814, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
ChonkyOwlbear 111 points a year ago
This has always been America. We are just seeing pictures this time.
LogicalFallacy 36 points a year ago
The pretense has fallen
jjjalljs 102 points a year ago
If people wondered what they would do during the 1930s, now we know.
A lot of people would cheer for the Nazis.
I know I'm not doing enough, and it's depressing as heck. Most people I know are doing less. No protests. Not talking about it. Just head in the sand.
barneypiccolo 25 points a year ago
It's still early. The Nazis took over in 1933, but their first euthanasia program didn't start until 1936. The Holocaust didn't really start in earnest until about 1939.
We can't let it get that far, of course, but the point is that it will take some time to get bad enough for people to start really fighting back. I suspect that protests will get really ugly and violent next summer, in the closing stretch before the 2026 Midterm Election.
booly 21 points a year ago
There are a lot of different ways to resist. I'm throwing my money and some volunteer effort at lawsuits to gum up the works, add friction to a bunch of the Trump administration's decisions, and make them expend a ton of resources even to accomplish the things within their power (or that are inevitable).
I know people who are feeding bad data into the surveillance state, clogging immigration and DEI tip lines with plausible but ultimately incorrect leads that waste their time.
There's a pretty serious boycott movement and it is making a difference to some businesses' bottom lines.
There's a bunch of other ways to contribute:
- Stirring the pot and feeding internal faction rivalries, like DOGE vs populist MAGA vs business interests. Elon Musk has lost a few prominent internal fights (China briefing at the Pentagon, hand picked IRS chief fired less than a week in, his NASA pick being withdrawn). These guys think chaos is a ladder, but chaos can swallow them up, too.
- Disruption with plausible deniability: blocking doors and driveways that look unintentional, jury nullification, firing Trumpers for pretextual reasons, wasting Trump supporting businesses' time and money, pranks that cause Trumpers to gather in the wrong place, etc.
- Further escalation as situations warrant.
If things escalate to where property destruction, outright fraud or scams or other white collar crime, or violence is justified, it won't be sudden. It will be a gradual build up, with legal resistance giving way to nonviolent disruption to property destruction and theft to violent resistance. But I think it's worth exhausting the less disruptive options first, and be satisfied that escalation is justified at each step where that actually happens.
barneypiccolo 7 points a year ago
I like the way you think.
I particularly think sabotage and malicious compliance strategies can be very effective at weaponizing their virtuosic incompetence against them.
Guns0rWeD13 3 points a year ago
Further escalation as situations warrant.
this.
HootinNHollerin 8 points a year ago
I think some of these protests so far are controlled opposition to prevent real progressive movement in preference for same old bs from DNC. We need to weed out the fakes
Eldritch 7 points a year ago
What makes you think that that sentiment itself isn't fostered by controlled opposition? Don't get me wrong, as an anarchist I have no love for Democrats or republicans. But unfortunately with our electoral system the way it is. Realistically we have to be bedfellows with one or the other at some level of government.
At least of course until all national parties are abolished, and the electoral system reformed. Trying to push change from the top down has backfired every single time. The unions thought it would be good to give Carter a lesson. And instead Carter lost and they ended up becoming irrelevant. There's plenty of parallels between that and the recent presidential election. Honestly I don't think the Office of the President shouldn't even exist. It's too much power just begging to be abused as it currently is.
That will only change however by building up local parties and making National parties irrelevant, or at least serving the interest of the accountable local parties. Till then we can gnash and wail, grinding our teeth at every shitty candidate the National Party puts forward. But as long as they are in control and full of shitty candidate fodder. That's never going to change. But us focusing on that over everything else certainly enables the worst actors in society.
booly 3 points a year ago
That will only change however by building up local parties and making National parties irrelevant
Even this is thinking too narrow. Power in our society comes from a lot of places. We all have different capacities to do directly, to fund, or influence things.
If I go to the food bank and actually prep bundles of food to distribute, I'm doing something outside the government. Maybe the government should be doing that, but it doesn't much matter what should happen when we're out there doing.
If I donate my money to a food bank, or a nonprofit that litigates immigration cases against the government, my money might make a difference by slowing down the government, maybe even stopping its ongoing actions, or even reversing its past actions. And that threat can deter some of those actions from taking place in the first place. (And even if unsuccessful, laying bare the administration's lawlessness lays the groundwork for morally/ethically breaking the law in resistance).
If I have a podcast that has a bunch of listeners, I can influence public opinion. There are big voices in support of the current administration, and there are some voices against.
We each have our own power. Some of us even have substantial economic power that isn't our own individually: organizing collective action, making spending decisions of our deep pocketed employers, etc. And at the end of the day, if nonviolent or even violent resistance becomes justified, the government and the political parties won't have a role in how that power is deployed.
Elections and campaigns still matter, of course. But so much else matters, too. And those decisions and those actions don't go through a political party or any party officials. The key is finding balance between trying to influence the politics versus just bypassing politics and influencing the world directly.
BevelGear 13 points a year ago
You're right, but your not alone. There are thousands of us around the US protesting, boycotting, going to town halls, and getting involved in the government (https://www.fiftyfifty.one/). It's just hard to see since media corporations want to keep the status quo. It's not going to be easy to change our political system, but it's been done before. Just read our Declaration of Independence. We have to keep fighting or no on else will.
Edit
Here's part of the second paragraph of the declaration
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
jjjalljs 10 points a year ago
I've got to a couple protests but they feel like they're just for show. They're not disruptive. They're not making clear, actionable, demands. They're better than nothing. i saw people handling out flyers so maybe some people went to more meetings.
But I feel like there needs to be more specific stuff. Like, a demand that musk be removed from government, or trump be removed via the 14th amendment, or whatever, and that needs to be backed by "if you don't listen to us, then you don't get any more labor". (Violence, I'm told, is less effective, but can also be there in the subtext)
But actually organizing large things is hard, especially when the state and the money are opposing you.
I can't even get my friends to suffer the mild inconvenience of getting off facebook, nevermind getting off the couch.
BevelGear 6 points a year ago
I agree with you. More needs to be done. If I had a higher income and sustainability, I'd be getting ready to be one of the candidates for the next local election, but for now, I'm just doing what I believe is right, so I have no regrets. Change will happen. Whether or not I'll see it in my lifetime, I don't know. All I'll know is that I did everything I could to start that change and pass it on. They may have the finances, but they can't overturn the masses when we all unite.
OutForARip 6 points a year ago
I feel like this 'movement' is a pressure valve to let off steam and stop any actual rising up.
Protesting, boycotting, and townhalls were acceptable methods before he got power. Now praxis is needed.
Grizzlyboy 67 points a year ago
America needs to change their anthem.
funkless_eck 8 points a year ago
Parker and Stone would also just make a cartoon character about an American soil genocide, but have it to the B plot of an episode bullying trans people.
minkymunkey_7_7 4 points a year ago
Born in the USA.
FordBeeblebrox 0 points a year ago path: 0 17389186 17391475, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
BigMacHole 63 points a year ago
MAYBE those CHILDREN shouldn't be CRIMINALS!
-People who Voted ENTHUSIASTICALLY for the Convicted Felon!
OutForARip 48 points a year ago
If you were to shoot the fascists next to them in the head, I would consider you to be the hero.
AlecSadler 18 points a year ago
Hell, I'll chip in for bail
WorldsDumbestMan 6 points a year ago
You mean the cops do not survive for you to need a bail
LuigiMaoFrance 42 points a year ago
Nazi fucks.
ArchmageAzor 38 points a year ago
The Americans don't consider them children, to them they are "subhumans"
Saleh 50 points a year ago
The Nazis were very much humans. We need to stop "othering" evil. The Nazis weren't some grand anomaly of people and Fascism works by prying on the same vulnerabilities that are present in all humans when it gets enabled through capitalist policies
Es waren nicht Hitler, Göring, Goebbels, Himmler oder wie die anderen heißen, die mich wegschleppen und prügeln ließen. Nein, es war der Schuster, der Nachbar, der Alte, der Milchmann, der Postbote, die Formlosen bekamen plötzlich Armbinden und eine Mütze auf dem Kopf und dann waren sie die Herrenrasse.
-Karel Stojka, Ausschwitz survivor
"It wasn't Hitler, Göring, Goebbels, Himmler or whatever the others were called who had me dragged away and beaten. No, it was the cobbler, the neighbor, the old man, the milkman, the letter carrier, the shapeless suddenly got armbands and a cap on their heads and then they were the master race."
DoYouNot 12 points a year ago
I think the point is: anyone can end up acting out a facist fantacy, even you, if you're not careful. The quality of 'evil' is surprisingly all-too-human... If you're interested, the film "Jojo Rabbit" explores the idea a bit. Worth a watch!
BCsven 2 points a year ago
Nope, would not happen here, even as a kid I defied stuff that didn't not make sense, logically, or for community or humanistic views. Like Israelis supporting palestinian kids getting shot in the head daily, you have to be a moron to think murdering children is good retaliation for Hama's attacks. Maybe I'm an outlier in my obstinance, But as a teen all my friends did acid, smoked weed, or took pain killers, and they would pressure and I'd be like nope, not happening.
Aceticon 1 point a year ago
I boils down to the level of Empathy one has.
Empathy is a scale, not an absolute, and plenty of people who do have some Empathy can switch off the little they have easily enough, whilst some can't or, if they do, doesn't last long.
If you look around you can sorta see that people can be roughly divided into three groups, a minority who are really good people who care for others and help them out for no gain for themselves (sometimes even at a loss for themselves), another minority that couldn't give a rats ass about others and are willing to destroy other people's lives if they themselves personally benefit from it (sometimes in petty ways, such as just the feeling of being powerful) and the majority who are in the middle and just float towards whatever they perceive is the main mode of being of the time and place they're living in, which in America now is Selfish Individualism, or in other words, being a lot like the second group who has no Empathy.
So yeah, you'll always find individuals who won't bat an eye at doing this, and in the right time and place most people will be in practice living with their empathy switched off hence will look at this and feel nothing (because they won't empathize with the children at all), and at the same time as the other poster pointed out some people find it impossible not to look at this and feel disgust and even rage because they can't switch their empathy of, or at least not for long.
boughtmysoul 5 points a year ago
And they’re still 100% human. You’re introducing unecessary complexity into the discussion.
Evil is human. Humans are sometimes evil.
NigelFrobisher 29 points a year ago
“Hans, are we the bad guys?”
RizzoTheSmall 28 points a year ago
No need for human rights when you're not viewed as a human 👍
SoftestSapphic 20 points a year ago
The judges complicit in this fascist administration will be on the same list as the rest of the fascists
They will be prosecuted at the next Nuremberg Trials
thefartographer 18 points a year ago
Not here. Please... Not anywhere, but please not here... This is the most disappointed I've ever been of my hometown.
thefartographer 6 points a year ago
Ouch.
jcs 4 points a year ago
Native here as well, and also disappointed. We can't throw all ~1.5M San Antonio residents under the bus, though. All I can say is that my local precinct did its part to not elect the current POTUS.
thefartographer 3 points a year ago
I'm not throwing all the residents under the bus. Only the people representing us. Now is not the time to go with the flow; I thought SAPD always bragged about building nice relationships with the denizens.
polyamorypagan69 12 points a year ago
Facist in action
slaneesh_is_right 4 points a year ago
Ai, make a picture of fascism
ChairmanMeow 6 points a year ago
Thank fuck those brave officers prevented that girl from braiding her hair!
RememberTheApollo_ 11 points a year ago
Oh fuck this.
LordWiggle 8 points a year ago
Fucking disgusting. But to be fair, with all the school shootings in the US I wouldn't trust children either /jk
IndustryStandard 7 points a year ago
Always has been.
IndustryStandard 3 points a year ago
Obamna
OsrsNeedsF2P 3 points a year ago
I only see one with zip ties
Vreyan31 7 points a year ago
They are children. Zip ties on elementary school kids is heinous. Regardless of residential status - which kids do not have any culpability in.
Your question is grotesque and irrelevant.
skisnow 5 points a year ago
Quite. When we describe someone as an “illegal”, literally all it means is they don’t have the correct paperwork to be in the country. When applied to children, you’re now making moral judgements about them and how they should be treated based on their parents’ paperwork being in order.
It’s a fundamentally inhumane way to think.
Hellsfire29 -6 points a year ago
You're right. They should have cuffed them to their parents so they can't be separated.
boycottus
@lemmy.ca
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Overview:
The community dedicated to boycotting the US until they stop fascism, restore full democracy and start following international law.
Americans have a moral obligation to resist Donald Trump and project 2025 at every turn.
America is a flawed democracy currently being ruled by oligarchs. Stop the backslide! Dont let America become the next Hungary.
America needs to challenge the court rulings of citizens united v. fec and shelby county v. holder, protect the media, implement independent district drawing, and the single transferable vote so they don't end up having people stay home in life-changing elections because they cannot vote for their favourite candidate.
Join 50501.chat to fight back!
Related communities:
Boycott:
Activism:
go to feed...
boycottus
@lemmy.ca
2758
1446
3516
Overview:
The community dedicated to boycotting the US until they stop fascism, restore full democracy and start following international law.
Americans have a moral obligation to resist Donald Trump and project 2025 at every turn.
America is a flawed democracy currently being ruled by oligarchs. Stop the backslide! Dont let America become the next Hungary.
America needs to challenge the court rulings of citizens united v. fec and shelby county v. holder, protect the media, implement independent district drawing, and the single transferable vote so they don't end up having people stay home in life-changing elections because they cannot vote for their favourite candidate.
Join 50501.chat to fight back!
Related communities:
Boycott:
Activism:
go to feed...
no matter what you think of (maybe illegal) immigrants, tying up minors is totally stupid. typically american, i would even say!
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