[image] Both cars fit the same amount of people
3 years ago by JaN0h4ck to c/fuckcars
Honestly this is absurd. These death machines shouldn't be legal in europe. That thing doesn't even fit in the parking space, even though the parking lot has the biggest spaces in the whole city. The Golf Polo is so small in comparison, it could even hide in front of the engine hood of the truck.
EDIT: It's a Polo and not a Golf, I don't know my cars, sorry for that!
But you forgot that the truck can be used to haul 4 pieces of lumber twice a year!
And only costs 1000x more than it would to rent a trailer for a day twice a year.
Exactly!
Or, carry the same 4 pieces of lumber all year long and cause me anxiety everytime I'm driving behind.
How do Europeans get stuff for their house around? Like do appliances just get delivered as part of buying them? Or are there other companies that specialize in that sort of thing? Genuinely curious.
This question baffles me because it seems like a total non-issue to me as a European. How do Americans get stuff for their house around? Do you not have delivery or truck/van/trailer rental services, and are all your appliances (and not just fridges/freezers which are apparently hilariously big in the US) so American-sized that you can't fit them in an average family hatchback/crossover/SUV? Or do you regularly move all of your stuff from one house to another?
Dude, as an American I had all of my appliances delivered. The Home Depot guys showed up with a box truck. It’s free delivery too so why would you even need a truck…. In fact, you can get a lot of stuff delivered for free or very cheaply from Home Depot.
The truck in this picture is so shiny it’s clearly a vanity vehicle. I’m guessing it’s owned by a member of the US armed forces judging by the star on the side? American military personnel are known to bring their vehicles with them from the mainland, to Japan or Europe.
You rent a truck or pay for delivery just like 80% of North Americans do.
Also how often do you need to haul furniture, the rental cost will never come close to the price difference between a car and a truck.
Yes companies deliver. This makes me wonder about something I've never thought of: do American shops not do this?
Aside from the free delivery of appliances others mentioned, I believe it is an EU law that a store that delivers whitegoods must also take the old one and properly dispose of it.
I ordered a new fridge lately. The delivery was free (I paid the extra €25 to have them install it and plug it in) and I had to clean the old fridge out before they arrived, but they took the old one down the same 3 flights of stairs they carried the new one up.
You're very generous lol
In the States, the same choads that drive tankmobiles tend to complain about fuel prices and how it’s all big gubmint’s fault for stealing their fun (fun being defined as the ability to do 95 mph on the interstate and still pay under $50 for a tank of gas).
Not with a flat tyre.
The car doesn't have a flat tyre, it's actually in the parking space unlike the truck..
I'd wager a sizeable number of half-ton pickup trucks are used solely as people movers, i.e. the bed and towing capabilities aren't utilized. In many countries, trade workers more than manage with light vehicles, like kei trucks in Japan, so I think they'd work for the average weekend warrior too.
What always gets me is how shitty pick-ups are at transporting things.
A percussionist I know has a double cab van, I think it's a Ford transit. It can haul 3 timpani, a drum, tubular bells, a bass drum and other smaller stuff all in one trip. And then it still has space for 5 people. Try doing that with a pick-up.
As a bass player, a VW Touran can fit two double basses and two people. Can't do that in a pick-up.
Those are roughly the same size as a 150 though, aren't they?
Why is a behemoth of a van OK, but an equal sized pickup isn't?
Because pick-ups are truly unfit for purpose unless the purpose is to increase your confidence and sense of safety on the road. We are always gonna need utility vehicles for specific purposes. A percussionist is not hauling drums on the train.
Can you forklift a pallet from the side? Nope the tub design doesn't allow it unless you have a tray design.
Can you load a large ladder on it? No ladder/timber rack.
Is it good off-road? Perhaps, but the tub design over the rear tyres and back bumper make the departure angle poor, you'll need rock sliders or a lift.
I think I'll stick to wagons and vans.
You can put a roof rack on almost any vehicle, just BTW.
The places around me will deliver it for quite cheap so the uh, 2 times in my life I need that I'll just do that?
How often does the average person haul tons of earthen materials around?
In my case multiple times a year... plus construction material, furniture, motorcycles... In the end I need to haul heavy shit multiple times a month.
Yet, people would take pictures of my SUV and call me an idiot with no respect for driving a big vehicle... With a 4 cylinders that has a fuel consumption that's the same (or better) as AWD cars that these same people don't criticize???
I have a small trailer. Towing capacity of my 2003 Subaru WRX is 1500 lbs. So I guess two trips? Truth be told, that's why I have the trailer. For when I need to move a decent volume of random crap for work.
I don't think the people here are complaining about pickups when used for work, but they are shit vehicles for daily driving. And, this is my personal opinion, crew cabs are usually not utilized to transport workers. More than not, I expect they are because they think they'll take the family or kids in it. Even then they usually drive without any passengers.
I get that a lot of workers don't want to have two vehicles, but pickups are not good daily drivers.
Pickups are just worse vans.
Can't fit an ATV in a van, and no I won't use a trailer because I'm already using one. Trucks have their uses because vans don't have an open top.
Seriously discussion here always feels impossible. They're sitting shit taking the truck while in a Euro city with great public transit. BOTH are unnecessary with the right context.
There are many things you can't fit in a van. There are many things that fit in a van, but don't fit in a pickup truck.
Generally, a van fits more things, takes up less spacs, has a better visibility, are more efficient and don't look ridiculous.
And yes, believe it or not, there are vans that fit ATVs.
That's a good way to get run over by an ATV in a crash.
Do many trades genuinely work out of Kei trucks? I feel a lot of people here don't understand just how tiny they are.
I also started to see more of these in urban areas of europe. Not a huge amount but still recognizable. I dont get why one would buy something like this. You wont even be able to find a proper parking spot for these.
100% they are buying these to "protest" the "green agenda" or some bullshit like that.
That's not very strong in EU
??? Thats just wrong lol
In which EU country is there a notable percentage of people buying big cars to protest the green agenda? Never heard of it in France. I do know a lot of people who buy cars for the image and the social status however.
Here in Sweden it's certainly not an insignificant opinion amongst car enthusiasts.
Towing and hauling larger than car type things.
"Big car = strong!"
No, it tows and fits a rear facing seat comfortably. Not sure what's so complicated here.
Yeah, you absolutely need a wankpanzer to install a child seat 🤡
Only biiiiiiig car fit child seat.
Only big car tow.
headlights shouldn't be allowed that high on road vehicles, blinding menace on wheels.
Yes. Both cars fit the same amount of people but one driver is carrying a smaller package.
ayy lmao
I think the most absurd is, that even former basic cars like the Polo get bigger and bigger. Modern Polos seem to take up more space than a gen. 1, 2, or even 3 Golf - but with barely more space inside.
Effects are, they take up more public space when curb parking, perversely hindering their brothers to get through. Some just barely fit single garages built in the 50ies, totally inconveniencing the driver trying to get out. One'd thing people buying these would see these self created problems, but apparently not.
Ok but a lot of that space is taken up by crumple zones and the like, things that make far fewer people die. Euro NCAP legislation drives a lot of the change you are seeing, and a lot of it for the better.
Completely agree, Crumple zones, sound deadening, side impact safety bars, airbags, rollover reinforcement, even just the structure of the seats has changed dramatically over time. Sit in a mk1 golf or polo and marvel at the exterior coloured painted metal on the inside of the car, and now think, how was it ok to make a car with this little safety?
Crumple zones do not reflect the ridiculous proportions of that pickup truck.
The VW has perfectly fine crumple zones for a collision with another car of up to double it's mass and size. They are also designed to give pedestrians a fighting chance of minimal injury in built up areas.
Due to the arrival of these pickups, all cars need to get bigger and more reinforced to deal with a collision.
Trucks are actually the vehicles that have increased in size the least if you compare the same models (same brand, same cab and bed), height is the only major difference that make them seem much bigger than the older models and that height is due in part to safety standards, including the capacity to hold 1.5 times their weight on their roof.
I hate how not mini the Mini is now.
I mean, the Mini Cooper S is really only 7” longer and 200lbs more than it was a decade ago, and the rest of the dimensions are pretty much the same. There are loud of other models they make which I do agree aren’t very small lol
a decade ago
That wasn't a MINI either. The last really small MINI was produced 23 years ago. See also here: https://www.carsized.com/...
Yeah basically all modern cars have tiny interior volumes, even tho externally they are huge.
As a comparison, my 2014 Nissan Note can maximally carry 2012 liters. The 2023 Renault Espace - a label whose name literally means spacious - can only carry 1818 liters. And that's while it's 50cm taller, wider and longer than the Nissan while weighing a whopping 50% more.
I don't know about interior volume, but the only modern cars that I've been in that I actually considered spacious on the insides are those newer Civic models. Like from 2015 or so. My friend has one of them, they're decently compact from the outside, but my god the only time I've had that much legspace and headroom in a car was in vans.
Now, admittedly, you're not gonna be hauling sofas and fridges with one, but as a people mover and grocery getter? Really damn good.
Can you store up to 10 corpses on that Polo?
It seems like a lot of people here don't understand that circumstances might be different in different places. This post itself assumes the only reason is to transport people, but the truck can do more than that.
If I lived in a rural place and needed something that could tow, transport, and go over tougher terrain, I could see the usefulness of having a truck around. Not everything is in a comfy city where everything is within a couple miles.
Now where I currently live, I'd never dream of getting a truck like that. So much hassle and the roads are too small. But I could see it being useful for someone else.
Get the Ordnungsamt involved, it's illegal to park like that. It's too heavy and big to try to park like a car.
Lol good luck with that. At least where I am the Ordnungsamt is beyond useless.
In most of the EU, you'll get a hefty fine for parking on the pavement. Take a picture wirh the license number and report anonymously.
In my part of the world cops have written warning to those who report these people because "taking a photo of their license plate is a violation of their privacy".
Remember when I said anonymously?
Define what you think "a Karen" is, because I don't think you understand what you're typing, and just trying to be "cool" on the internets.
Define what you think “a Karen” is, because I don’t think you understand what you’re typing, and just trying to be “cool” on the internets.
When I've got to push my stroller onto the street because people park on sidewalks, I send pictures.
I can see how this is Karen mentality, since I'm focused on the impacts to me personally. However, I would say the sidewalk parkers are also exhibiting Karen behaviour, as they don't focus on the impacts of their actions on other either.
That's not what a Karen is at all. A Karen reports someone for doing things that arent a crime and that's why they're unreasonable (often against people of color). Like when that woman called the cops on that dude leaving his own home.
Also parking on the pavement is dangerous and reduces accessibility for other people navigating that. So yes, report them.
However, only a single car possesses the ability to signal your fellow drivers about the astonishingly delicate nature of your masculinity.
It's about bumper height more than anything else
What do you mean? They've specifically designed it so that when it ruptures all of your internal organs you don't have to suffer through living any longer
And a nice set of airbags for the driver while doing so.
Might just be my experience but in the UK at least, it’s almost exclusively women who drive cars like this. Men more commonly drive vans and super large vehicles to be fair, but specifically larger than necessary, non-tradesman style cars (Land Rovers, very clean, empty pick-ups etc.)
God forbid somebody drives a pickup truck. There's never ever a necessity to haul anything weighing over 500kg or to ever pull a large trailer. It's safe to assume anybody driving one of these big scary machines is a sadist with a micropenis and a threat to society.
Do you realize that whoever grew the food you ate today likely owns and utilizes a pickup truck? Do you realize that your convenient city life would be impossible without rural people transporting goods to your little concrete paradise?
And comfortably fit 2 rear facing seats. Fuck having kids amirite?
I could comfortably fit two car seats in my Prius. You’re delusional if you think the truck is required for that.
The Prius isn't a particularly small car though.
Imagine comparing a mid size to compact. I also said comfortably.
I wasn’t comparing a midsized to a compact, I was pointing out that you’re full of shit for thinking that only massive SUVs can fit two car seats, because you absolutely are. Have you been inside a Prius? It’s just as long as a RAV4. The main loss of interior space is in the headroom. Not sure if you realize, but children in car seats don’t need that headroom. Not that most people do. I’m 6 feet tall and I fit in the backseat with a comfortable amount of headroom and legroom. Plenty of space for two car seats to fit comfortably.
While that’s very useful, generally the issue is that the corpses are on the outside of its chassis. I don’t know many pickup owners that take the full time to wrap the victim in a carpet and put it in the back each time they miss a crosswalk from poor hood visibility.
Polo but yeah. The size difference is crazy. Who actually needs such a vehicle?
People that need to haul heavy stuff, wearing dirty boots probably. And I bet some of these are driven by those, but the vast majority is just used to boost the egos of people with some sort of complex.
Pickups can tow massive weights vans can't. I knew a guy that used one to tow a massive trailer for cattle, and that was the one usage that this thing really excels. No way a can could have done that in the dirt roads he was driving.
Anyone who tows. Or does a lot of work on their home. Mine gets used usually once a month during the warm months.
Needlessly being a cunt to others for the sake of "society" who didn't ask you to do it 👎
Nobody asked him to drive a vehicle that is both dangerous to others, guzzles gas like a tank, and is truly useful for a single 10km trip once a year.
Freedom of choice, freedom of consequence.
why are you acting like that commenter is the owner of a truck? others have a gamut of opinions, it isn't just "fuck cars" or "drive massive pedestrian crushers"
The community is called "Fuck Cars." Of course we are going to hate the incredibly inefficient, and wasteful trucks they have been producing for the last 25-30 years, because trucks and SUVs weren't regulated under the emissions act that was signed in the 90s. That's why all the smaller pickup trucks are gone, because if they made them that small, they would have to conform to the emissions standards of cars.
We need to write out the loophole, so that we can get these gigantic vehicles back in the wilderness where they belong, and out of our towns and cities.
The biggest issue with the loophole is anything can be classified as a “light truck” in America. My Subaru Outback is considered one by the federal government. It has been since 2005. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3948928
The 2020 Ranger is almost the same size as the 1990 F150. It's a few inches shorter and almost an inch taller. Towing capacity is the same.
That is why:
You might be right about the passengers, but from a relatives point of view, only the pickup works for his line of work. I won't go into details, but it involves transporting machines from site to site and using them there. His pickup is only used for work, he has a Volvo V60 as daily driver.
I see no problem with large cars as long as there is justifications for that specific vehicle.
The F150 is the best selling vehicle in america. The vast majority of those will never pull work machinery.
We understand that some people do, but bringing it up every time we object to these massive death machines does not preclude the sheer wastefulness and carelessness that most of these vehicles embody.
My neighbor has a massive truck and a huge dog. I've observed her running over the curb multiple times and more than once would've run me over if I hadn't been paying attention for both of us. Her dog weighs more than she does and it snaps at me howling every time it gets close. I've told her multiple times she possesses two lethal weapons that she clearly doesn't have control over, and she screams at me. Negligent people piss me off so bad, don't own something if you don't have the training or ability to control it. (Who wants to bet she's carrying too?)
"I see no problem with large cars as long as there is justifications for that specific vehicle."
Agreed. In 99 out of 100 cases there isn't, though. And for this single case, there are better solutions. A van can do everything better than this truck can. Everything.
Seriously! A van has a cover so workmen can leave their tools in it year-round, and it's lower to the ground so it's much easier to load and unload. The Mercedes Sprinter is probably the best work vehicle imo
This seems to be in a European city though
There's a reason why the tradies here mainly use vans instead of big honking trucks like these - something small and covered is much easier and more useful on small streets and is also just much safer
Also I dunno, Australia seems to run just fine on utes
Can you link a smaller one that supports 1,500lbs in the bed and 10,000lbs towing?
I can count to the number of urban residents who need a vehicle that meets those requirements on one hand.
Businesses that need to move stuff around for work typically use actual work vehicles that don’t have a five person cab attached to the front.
Ford Ranger is pretty close to that.
Also 90's F150s were way smaller than a modern one, and were rated for 8,000 pounds towing. So you don't need a monster of a truck to tow a lot, manufacturers are making them way bigger than they need to be.
Where this photo was taken:
How many people do you think are willing to spend this much time, effort and money to do any of that, unless it's for a job?
@SwedishFool@lemmy.world literally said the relative uses their truck for work, so...
I fully agree with you. These kind of vehicles can be quite practical for quite a lot of usecases!
The one in question from the picture however, seems much more like what we germans call "Stadtpanzer" (City Tank) - a utility vehicle made for transporting heavy loads in uneven terrain being used for commuting in a City, whichs is in my point of view very much not justified.
I'm gobsmacked you haven't been downvoted into the dirt for that remark.
Bro what? They had to pull up on the curb to fit in a space. That's ridiculous .
If you chop them into pieces, you can fit more "people" in the back.
Oh, c'mon. We've all done it!
I owned an f150 for 11 years. It's honestly been my favorite vehicle. However, in the time I owned it, I used it to tow my motorcycles and race gear, I renovated almost every room in my house, and I had a seven kilometer drive to work. It was an extremely useful vehicle. Anyone that needs a truck will immediately argue with you that they aren't necessary... For some people. My kids got a little older, and I need to drive them and their friends around, I sold the bikes, and I sold the truck for 50% of what I paid for it. I bought a 6 seater explorer. You may not like trucks, but they have their uses. If they sold UTEs in the USA/Canada I would have bought one in a second. I used to carry a tow strap too to pull civics out of the ditch during snow storms.
That's a polo not a golf, so while it's big it not quiet as big as portrayed
I bet I could get more people and stuff in the truck than the golf... Not comfortably, but still... A lot more.
Lol... Yea fair enough.
Sir, we're talking people, not bodies!
In all seriousness, the cap makes a bed seat so much worse. It's hot, it's cramped, and the cap needs all these big tie downs that jut out.
It's a decent car... Also, did you ever watch this? https://youtu.be/WUtE3QlTpKI for the polo.
And here's a golf one: https://youtu.be/qG4IaHgqH00
6 vs. 5. But I get your point.
I'm bothered when Americans call a truck a car. I'm being picky, but they are not the same thing.
can put 5 or 6 more in the bed.
Even more if you stack em.
Or grind them up to a paste and stuff the nooks and crannies.
How do you get three elephants into a Mini? You chop them in half. Then you chop them in half again. Then you slice them up very finely. Then you mash them. Then you put them in plastic bags. You put some in the boot, you put some in the back seat, and what's left over you put on the passenger seat.
-- Mike Thecoolperson
It is too big, but the form factor is still important. We upgraded from a Jeep to a Yukon Denali because we are very poor and live in Fuck All, Nowhere and need to haul groceries and furniture from the city.
With that said, none of us three friends and housemates like testosterone, and we are careful about how we drive and where we park. We do our best! <3
I'm sorry that these are starting to show up outside of North America.
This is the dumbest comment I've seen today. Saying a truck is unnecessary simply because you have no use for one is ridiculous. Are we all really going to ignore the fact that they are incredibly useful? Towing capacity alone. People gotta move big things from one spot to another regularly. As for a waste of parking space, do you normally fit 2 cars in 1 spot? What difference does it make if you're using the whole spot as opposed to half of it? This whole thread doesn't make sense to me. For the record, I don't own one, but would if I could afford one lol.
Well, in that case both of these vehicles are highly wasteful as they burn fossil fuels, contributing to climate change. They get fairly equivalent gas mileage too. Now, compared to an electric vehicle…
But at least they are both riding the train!
Mostly because taxes subsidize this unnecessary thing to a large degree (about half of vehicle costs are from taxes, according to that recent study out of Boston) and because the primacy this thing is given in society and urban planning, reducing mobility for public transit, walking, and reduced-mobility transit.
Once upon a time, people said the same about asbestos. Now, we don't have homes lined with asbestos anymore. How do you think that happened? Don't say "magic" or "totalitarian government control".
I sometimes get annoyed by all the large vehicles on the road obstructing my view. For the most part, pickup trucks are never hauling anything, so there is no reason to be driving one. SUVs are used by parents who are too insecure to drive minivans :)
Personally, I have both a small car I use for commuting, and a large pickup I use for hauling.
You could fit more people in the truck if you had a decent circular saw.
You mean living people?
You joke, but you could fit between 6 to 8 people in the back of the truck just sitting in the bed.
I understand not liking unnecessary large trucks with giant wheels that have never seen dirt in their lives. The same guys that like to rev their engine anytime they leave. But this just looks like a standard work truck. Maybe the back is full of tools? Maybe he's going camping. Camping is dope.
This isn't standard. Nothing about that vehicle is standard.
If it's for lugging tools, get a van. They're safer and better for the job.
If it's for camping, get a van.
These trucks make no sense, other than financially to car companies.
Trucks have a higher towing capacity than vans, generally.
Trucks can fit awkwardly sized stuff in the bed, unlike vans. I'd love to have seen my dad drop a welded heat exchanger he worked on for an industrial boiler into a van with a bobcat.
Work trucks absolutely make sense.
The bed in that thing is probably about the same size as the bed of a kei truck. Most pickup trucks in the US typically have beds about that size. If you really need to tow something enormous you're better off getting something designed for the purpose. People everywhere else in the world get around all the time with car-sized pickups like the older Hilux.
Only the US has such big pickups, and it's because the EPA allows less stringent emmissions standards the larger the vehicle is, so I guess it works out cheaper to just make the truck bigger and not bother dealing with tight standards. So ironically the EPA's regulation is creating more emmissions.
I'm afraid it's not because there's a good, rational reason to want a truck like that. It's basically a side effect of lobbying and anticompetitive behaviour.
EDIT: Not Just Bikes has done a pretty good breakdown of the problem with oversized SUVs & pickups here: https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo
Kei trucks can’t go very fast, and their load capacity isn’t nearly as much as a truck like this. They are really awesome though!
The economies between the two regions just aren't fully comparable at the trade and industrial scale. Wholly agree that pollution is a problem. Wholly agree there are idiots with lifted trucks and mall crawlers for no reason. But 8' truck beds are standard for tradespeople in America because they are extremely functional, and versatile. Making 2 specialized vehicles is more costly than making one versatile one.
The thing designed for that purpose is, indeed, a work truck.
Let's keep in mind that the EU's stringent environmental standards didn't stop the disastrous reality of just how bad diesel has been as a pollutant for Europe, leading to worse air quality than most places in America.
My former boss I knew well owned a truck like this. He was the boss of an electrician company and used his vehicle for a great many roles, towing stuff, bringing electrical and repair equipment that was pretty large, and taking the family for vacation. So the only reason a person should be looking at a vehicle like this is if you have a lot of different things to do with it
In Europe, there is no good reason to own this. It doesn't fit anywhere. There are other, better options in every single circumstance. Including pickup trucks that are designed for and fit our roads. These trucks are simply too big, they're a menace.
In America, many trades do use trucks to transport things. Farmers may use a pick up truck like this to haul hay or feed in the back. Construction companies and contractors will use trucks to move small loads of dirt or gravel. Lumber and plywood. Concrete blocks. Building supplies, scrap metal or machinery.
The open bed does make it easier to load and unload stuff in the back that does not need to be covered, and can allow you to use a forklift. But at a certain point if you’re moving a lot of heavy stuff a flatbed truck is it going to be more effective.
Still, way too many people buy trucks and never use them. They are very expensive and a lot of people go heavily in debt in buying these fancy overpriced vanity trucks. I think they cost between $75,000-$100,000 these days!
Vans... Have like 100mm clearance. All work vehicles suck gass, but a single truck doesn't scream "fuckcars" to me. The right tool for the job and such.
Whereas the hottest month in human history definitely screams "fuckcars" to me.
Only Americans ever think these are the right tool for the job. If you guys want to keep your trucks that kill people at an incredibly outsized rate, fire away. But they are a plague that most Europeans rightly want to keep out.
But this just looks like a standard work truck. Maybe the back is full of tools? Maybe he’s going camping. Camping is dope.
Sure. Two issues though.
So as a result, there are way more way bigger vehicles on the road endangering all road users and wasting resources for no benefit besides lining the pockets of the manufacturers.
Yeah, I'd imagine the smaller ones didn't sell well, but I get it. If it was up to me they'd be tiny and electric.
It's in germany and parked at a train station with no company logos on the vehicle. I only see it on workdays so it's sadly most likely a commuter.
Also standard work trucks in Germany are Vans, most people get a Mercedes Sprinter (or similar vans) for that. Plus you can customise your Sprinter to have a truck bed. Neat!
Yeah, my truck is great when I want to buy some furniture at ikea.
ITT: I need to carry and tow things sometimes and have never heard of a van
That's because one is a truck
Who knew
Clearly not op who said "both cars" in the title
To be fair, the van can fit waaaayyy more stuff in the back. Good luck getting your big work machinery in that normal car. They're made for different tasks entirely.
That said, the van doesn't need to be anywhere near that ridiculously large whatsoever and could still store the same amount of tools and people, it's incredibly dumb design for people with deep inadequacies.
Cool, how much can the Polo fit in the back? How much can it tow? What's it's off road capabilities?
Whether people actually use those capabilities is a different question, but these vehicles are in no way equal.
And yet will never haul more than groceries
I tow my car to the track at least once a month 🤷♂️
In Europe that would be a VW Transporter or similar. Not the kind of thing you see parked on a residential spot unless it's gardeners being there for a job, they love their flatbeds.
And WTF are you towing that kind of load (at least looks heavy) on a twin axle. No wonder you people think towing shit is dangerous. Read my lips: Wheels on all corners, brakes.
Empty plastic bins. Heavy but not too heavy for the trailer, well within the limits. That's funny that something scares you guys yet the same people would hook up a camper to a golf lol. Here's some more interesting loads I've done for your viewing pleasure. 
That's completely legal, everything is fully secured, went through 3 states with that one6 years ago. I've hauled aircraft all over the USA, picked up planes in California and Michigan and brought them back home to FL. You always get interesting looks from people with those haha Here's a fun one for you. 
The pickup absolutely does not need to be that big to be able to haul that much mass. Also, most large cars you see driving are pretty much never at capacity. Could get away with having a shared pool of specialized vehicles that will get used only when really necessary.
You should also learn to use your shit. That is a death trap.
SUVs and pulling shit is kinda funny you see: Automatic transmissions have shit torque out of the box, they'd overheat pulling simple trailers so they need additional cooling so they need additional space so Yanks buy oversized cars (whether or not they actually pull anything).
Anyhow if America learned to drive manual transmission like the rest of the world they could pull trailers with Golfs, like the rest of the world.
Heck that SUV there looks larger than a Unimog and I can guarantee you it is nowhere even close to Unimog capabilities. Those things are honorary tractors.
Lol. Most tractors (tractor trailers) are automatic now. To say it needs to be manual otherwise it’s bad at hauling is quite possibly the most ignorant shit I’ve read around here in awhile.
Automatic transmissions are perfectly fine for hauling as long as it’s designed for it.
Tractors tend to have erm Lastschaltgetriebe dunno the English term. Transmissions that can shift under load, without dropping torque. With regards to what I said what's important is whether they have a fluid coupling as that's where torque losses and heat generation occur, and they generally don't, they have dual clutches instead. You also see continuously variable transmissions, as well as plain old manual ones if you simply don't need fancy.
Computer-automated clutches, sure, but that makes them computer-actuated manuals, not automatic as in something that can select gears in a purely mechanical fashion.
Coming back to Unimogs: Also, in principle tractor transmissions. Number of clutches can get involved because power takeoff points. From a driver's experience they either shift completely automatically, or you select gears but the computer does the clutching, or, and this is something you don't really see in tractors, you can also operate the clutch manually because it's very useful in certain offroad situations. Mechanically, though, as said, they're manual transmissions, hydraulically actuated, controlled by computer.
My SUV's towing capacity: 3500lbs
The car version of my SUV (built on the same platform, with the same engine and transmission and actually 4" longer), towing capacity: 2000lbs
Why? Suspension, not transmission.
The Golf you're talking about has no official towing capacity in North America because North America is actually more strict about towing safety than Europe. I've towed with my Jetta though and anything past 1k lbs was a stretch.
A Unimog doesn't hit highway speeds, they're road legal farm vehicles.
Transmission oil coolers don't require much space either and they're required if you're towing heavy loads with a manual transmission too, so packaging doesn't change.
Before sharing your opinion as if it were a fact you should make sure you actually know what you're talking about.
A Golf has a capacity of 1.5 to 2 tons. That's more than your SUV. And no American safety standards aren't higher than Europe's. It's just taken as a given that you drive differently when you're towing something and not merging onto the Autobahn at 120km/h. That's because we have driver ed and, in fact, you need an extra license to pull anything of any size.
EDIT: Oh and Unimogs are completely Autobahn-legal. The usual configuration is 80km/h, same as what lorries are allowed but you can get them with 110km/h. Your usual tractor is limited to 40km/h, less than the Autobahn minimum of 60.
Europe:
Golf towing capacity 1600kg
My SUV's towing capacity 2400kg
And having towed with a manual Jetta I can confirm that only a moron would tow more than 500kg with a Golf and think they're safe, and the Jetta is longer than the Golf so it's actually more stable.
And yes, towing standards are more strict in North America (SAE J2807) vs Europe (determined by the manufacturer)
And concerning your manual vs automatic argument, Dodge Ram equipped with the Cummins had 1000lbs lower towing capacity with the manual transmission in 2018 (so under the SAE standard).
I really want to see this golf pulling 4400 lbs while not being a hazard to everyone on the road. Good luck climbing a hill on a busy highway without getting into an accident or shitting out pieces of transmission on the road.
That's fucking insane, my "giant" 1/2 ton pickup is only book rated for pulling 5500 lbs.
That's not a SUV my man, that's a full size pickup truck with a bed topper. And automatic transmissions can absolutely pull a heavy load without a problem if they are designed for it. Plenty of Americans own manuals, I've had many over the years and enjoy them both, but just having a manual transmission is not what makes a car capable of pulling a load. Your never going to pull a serious load in a golf, regardless of the transmission; maybe a little yard trailer or haul a motorcycle, but not a horse, a car, or anything actually considerable for that matter, you would fold the frame up and would never be able to stop it. That's a ram 2500 btw, it will haul 10,000-15,000 lbs depending on how it's configured. A unimog is more like a street legal tractor, love em, but it's in a whole other class than this. Completely different use case, not really comparable. A new unimog probably cost 3x this truck as well.
That’s a ram 2500 btw, it will haul 10,000-15,000 lbs depending on how it’s configured.
That's quite a bit more than a Golf's 2t, the maximum you can get over here without it being a truck (and requiring a truck license) is 3.5t. 5t is medium lorry category... not pulling, that is, but hauling stuff themselves. If you order a load of bricks or such you generally don't pick them up, they get delivered by whoever's selling them with a lorry with a suitable crane.
And no a Unimog is not a street legal tractor, pretty much all tractors are street legal (as long as it's harvesting season farmers get all kinds of road legality exemptions as long as they drive at snail speeds great-grandpa's trailer that he pulled with horses is still legal). It's an Autobahn-legal tractor and appliance carrier. Also drives on rail if equipped for it. And it's Autobahn-legal by a wide margin, the minimum is 60km/h and they usually do 80 (in line with what lorries are allowed, everything over 3.5t total weight), you can get them with up to 110km/h.
I know exactly what a unimog is, I have drove one. And you are just talking semantics about the legality, here they are considered street legal, as they get a plate assigned. You can drive a tractor on the road but only for the purpose of transport to other fields on Maintence. They do not require a a tag, only a triangle. A basic license here covers all pickup trucks for private use, you only need a CDL for a really big trailer when you are working for hire, or a commercial truck over a certain size. It is kinda crazy to me how people can have 42 foot RVs here pulling a 40 foot double stacked enclosed trailer though with just a basic license though haha
Automatic transmissions have shit torque out of the box
Absolute nonsense, the torque converter multiplies torque at low speed, so an automatic with the same gear ratios as a manual will have far more pulling power than a manual.
And a trans cooler is standard on pretty much any automatic vehicle.
K
now do 2x4s or couches
Do you know what a truck is used for? And the differences between a car and truck?
I'm starting to think everyone subbed here is mentally ill
The problem is that when you have a family to protect, you're faced with the choice of going on the road in a tiny car that will not survive a crash with those big vehicles. It's really an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality.
People should not have to compete in an arms race to get to work
Shouldn't have to, but DO have to.
It's not okay to endanger other people (and other people's families, since that seems to be relevant to you somehow) so that you can reduce the risk of your non-essential activities. Yes, I know you "need" your child killing machine to do some of the things that maintain your wasteful unnecessary lifestyle. But what portion of your trips do those necessities really make up? Are you still going to think it is still worth it after you have splattered some innocent family of poor people who can't afford to keep up with your antisocial practices, when you "had to" drive to the next city because yours doesn't have the good IMAX theater?
You have a choice: keep your kids safe or keep other kids safe. It is an either-or. Could I live with myself if I got into an accident and someone else's kid died? I don't know.
Could I live with myself if I was driving around in one of those teeny, tiny cars, and my kids died after being t-boned by some drunk in an SUV? Absolutely not.
Tanks are on the road. That's reality. If we, through government action change that, great! I won't miss them.
Bigger doesn't mean safer. About 10 years ago I drove an 06 Corolla. I got rear ended at a stoplight by an SUV going ~40 mph. Their car was totaled. The rear body of my car was kinda mangled, but completely drivable. The driver of the other car broke their wrist and had their airbags deployed. I just got my knuckles a little scraped on my dashboard.
I drive an 08 Corolla these days.
I'm not apologizing for anything. I live in a world where, like it or not, people are driving around in tanks. Opting out of that means that I've be driving around with little kids on roads where our tiny car would be crushed in an accident.
Not going to let that happen. I'm not buying a tank, but I'm buying a car big enough that it scores high in crash tests against tanks.
I'm all for systematic change, but pretending we don't already live in the environment we live in is simply denial.
I'm here to talk to the grown-ups about this problem, and listen to serious ideas about the to fix this issue.
I absolutely agree. I'd love to see it, but until we live in that world, I'm going to buy a car big enough to survive a collision with the aging boomer in their monster truck.
This is so childish. "If you don't self-sacrifice when no one else is, then you, you're the one I'm going to call out."
Shaming someone for not being the one to make a change you want to see happen on a systemic level while doing nothing to fix the system is such a child's take.
Except that this is evidence based and the gun logic is counter to the evidence.
Pickup trucks have worse single-vehicle crash safety. Statistically, the danger of injury and death balances out.
Tell me you've never built anything with your hands in your life and you're dick-ashamed about it, without telling me you've never built anything with your hands in your life and you're totally dickshamed about it.
Yet, only 1 tows my race car and comfortably fits my family.
So you're saying you want TWO big and wasteful cars to fit the same amount of people as one small car?
I wouldn't call my 911 big...
We get it, you come from a life of privilege, conspicuous consumption, and performative capitalism, you don't need to keep repeating yourself
I run 85% of my house on solar, drive less than 1500 miles a year, and grow probably 20% of my food.
What do you do?
I wouldn't call it a race car either. But I would call this whole thread your cry for attention.
🤷♂️ it's a dumb comparison. Sorry I called it out I guess.
I mean... No. They do not. The car fits 4 tiny people.
I'm 6'4. I drove tiny sedans for years, for all the reasons you'd think.It was physically painful for me. I finally couldn't do it anymore. In no way would my tall family fit in that tiny car.
Are trucks way too big? Yes. Should public transport be easily accessible and prioritized? Absolutely. Is the seating in those vehicles the same. Not at all.
4 tiny people. Lmao like you are the average at 6'4. Get your head out of your behind.
There are small cars with higher roofs. But please elaborate why tall peoples' only way of transportation in cars is trucks :D
How much leg room does the person behind you have?
This is a weirdly common issue in this sub, people dismissing one person's issue or use case offhand, because it doesn't align with their preconceptions.
Most small cars don't have anywhere near the leg room of a big vehicle, especially with multiple occupants.
I didn't say you need a truck, or that I'm average. But comparing the space inside these two vehicles as equal is just not true.
I'm 6'4 and I can fit very comfortably in a Polo. Volkswagen Polos are in the top 10 best selling cars in the Netherlands, along with Opel Corsa, Toyota Yaris, Peugeot 208 and Kia Picanto. All compact cars that are perfectly comfortable in the front seats selling great in a country where being 6'4 isn't rare.
With anyone in the back? Because I drove a Jetta for years, which has a surprisingly spacious front seat. Unfortunately, unless your legs were two dimensional, you did not fit behind me.
What about the back seat, with your lanky ass sitting up front?
As a 6'5 i disagree. The small car is a renault clio 2007 model, a regular hatchback. I owned one of those and could drive it fine.
Dont compare it to a opel corsa or 211, those are tiny af and too small for us lol
The small car is clearly a Volkswagen, the badge on the front is visible. It's a pre-facelift Polo mk5, though, and as a fellow tall person whose brother had one for a while I know I fit in it fine
2 in the back and 2 in the front is fine for people with average size 1.85m height and normal posture. 3 in the back no but that is the case for a lot of cars unless they have separate seats. If you are taller then no every car works for you as well as I know from my uncle and nephews which are 2m
They probably don't need a larger car. I'm 6'6" and drive a Corolla.
I often wonder how basketball players drive sports cars. Maybe from the back seat?
Anyway, no. When friends ask if they should buy the same vehicle, I tell them to get a smaller one if they fit. Cheaper gas, maintenance, and easier to park...That or buy an RV.
I (5 foot 10, really long legs) drove an old Nissan Micra (slightly bigger than a Mini) for years and the size never bothered me. My brothers and dad are taller than me and they've always driven small hatchbacks. Suzuki Swift, Volkswagen Polo, that kind of thing. Seats can go all the way back, and both the Swift and the old Micra have high enough roofs.
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@lemmy.world
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
go to feed...
Both of them are used to transport mostly a single person at a time. Even the small one is too big.
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