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AI cannot replace humans spiteful spirit

a year ago by Maven (famous) to c/programmer_humor

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meme_historian 219 points a year ago

I see your pitiful vibe coding and raise you... SPITE CODING 👿

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ryathal 95 points a year ago

Spite coding is almost the original coding.

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sp3ctr4l 20 points a year ago

I have definitely gone into a rageful fugue state and woken up a week later after reworking an entire code base from being an inconsistent mess of slop...

...into actually having a common library of functions instead of just rewriting slightly different versions of them 8 times, having those functions only actually instantiated for necesarry classes...

...rewriting every variable name and function name to an actually consistent and intelligible naming scheme...

... and finally, moving a whole bunch of shit out of some kind of global 'think' type loop that doesn't actually need to be called or checked every goddamned micro second.

Done that more than once actually.

Never look inside 'baby's first video game mod' code, unless you have healthy blood pressure.

But uh yeah, spite, hatred, and anger are indeed powerful motivators for making good code, lol.

... so many idiots just jam everything into a global, called every tick loop, and then claim that it just can't be optimized, because "the game engine just can't handle it"...

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ChickenLadyLovesLife 10 points a year ago

I spent a good fraction of my career taking over and trying to fix code bases that my company refused to scrap and replace outright because they didn't want to admit their worthlessness. Complete rewrites would have taken maybe a tenth of the time I spent.

My favorite thing to encounter (which was nearly universal) was the phenomenon of a young programmer fresh out of college encountering SQL for the first time, deciding he hated it, and writing a huge mess of code to handle auto-generating the necessary SQL. I remember taking over one C# application that had classes named "AND.cs" and "OR.cs" which just took a String as a parameter and returned that String with " AND " and " OR " appended to it, respectively. In about an hour, I replaced three months of this guy's work that had bottlenecked the project with like five SQL statements.

It's insane to think what the civil engineering world would be like if it had the career structure of the software world.

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lordbritishbusiness 8 points a year ago

First thing I tell my interns: "The guys that made that database are smarter than you, they got PhD's for the algorithms the database uses. You are going to use SQL properly, and query properly, because the database will always do it better than your python code."

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sp3ctr4l 7 points a year ago

Jesus Fucking Christ.

I've done a lot of SQL/Database type work as well, and yep, I've been the person learning their insane spider web of db structures, and then either trying to enforce some kind of actual defined standards going forward, or in some instances, succeeding at restrucuring the dbs, transitioning them, and convincing corporate that this actually needed to be done.

It's insane to think what the civil engineering world would be like if it had the career structure of the software world.

Points at understaffed ATC tower, collapsing bridge that hasn't been even evaluated in a decade, general state of roadway disrepair and constant re-repair, also the new highway/overpass/lane expansion being built to 'solve traffic' despite doing that literally never working

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Gumbyyy 3 points a year ago

Holy shit, have we worked with the same guy?

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RustyShackleford 5 points a year ago

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ZILtoid1991 8 points a year ago

I prefer the term "spite-driven development".

I wrote an SDL replacement but worse after SDL refused to work with audio streams for me even after a week of googling, it took me the same amount to get it work with WASAPI directly as looking up audio streams, instead of the many easymp3playback.dll type solution. Another one week was making ALSA working. At least it's in D, so I have an easier time with development.

I also almost was involved with a YanSim clone development called "Love Letter: My True Feelings", but shit just started to hit the fan (character designer just left), so I decided to not get involved as a coder.

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Hackworth 53 points a year ago

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pineapplelover 7 points a year ago

I tried vibe coding a simple assembly program and it couldn't do it

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mohab 51 points a year ago

What's this dude talking about?! Everyone knows no one hates React like people who code in React 😂 No one is gonna get pissed off watching this.

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Schmoo 13 points a year ago

I used to be a React dev. The only thing I hated more than React was my boss.

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criss_cross 8 points a year ago

I remember years ago when React was the savior of web apps Swooping in engineers from the clutches of JQuery and AngularJS (not to be confused with Angular 2+). Components we’re gonna make things simpler than the mess of JS files and global state.

And generally that’s true but we’ve traded that off for a mess of hooks and 700 line nested functions in nested functions and obtuse rules that only apply to react and not JS.

Complex web apps are hard.

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gabbath 8 points a year ago

Do React devs really hate React?

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CookieOfFortune 20 points a year ago

Isn’t the adage that you either have haters or no users?

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Lemminary 5 points a year ago

I don't, but it can be really annoying when I accidentally fall for a common trap that I supposedly know how to avoid after all these years! Gah.

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ClassifiedPancake 2 points a year ago

I think it’s great and I’ve been working with it for 6 years. Many issues were resolved over time. We didn’t even have hooks back when I started! Those were dark times. And the new compiler helps with memoization.

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ChickenLadyLovesLife 37 points a year ago

I moved from Visual Basic (3 no less!) to C because I needed to optimize the performance of a software synthesis (like, sound synthesis) application I was developing at the time (mid-1990s). It boggles my mind to this day how much fucking work you had to do just to create a simple window in C. It instantly made clear why UIs at the time were so bad and I went back to Visual Basic for the UI with a compiled C DLL to do the heavy lifting.

There's no excuse for why UIs are still so bad today.

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lordbritishbusiness 27 points a year ago

The "excuse" is more or less the 20 or so replacements that have been made and died. I think Microsoft alone is responsible for 5 over the life of Windows.

We've more or less kinda settled on HTML only because it's already wide spread. But it's not perfect so more standards for the standards pile. Don't worry, react will end up buried by the next thing on the pile eventually.

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ChickenLadyLovesLife 18 points a year ago

We’ve more or less kinda settled on HTML

It's funny, one of the modern UI glitches that I hate the most is when a long bit of text is just truncated with ellipses instead of the whole thing being shown and you have to hold the mouse over to get it in a tooltip, or shudder actually click on the thing. HTML is great at word-wrapping and allowing the whole UI to "flow" with variable heights and widths as necessary - and yet that is never allowed to happen in apps.

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dejected_warp_core 33 points a year ago

Speaking of coding out of spite, is nobody going to mention that his C code features a struct with over 20 fields in it?

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calcopiritus 38 points a year ago

Sometimes you can't not have a god class (struct in this case). When doing UI specifically, I always end up with one.

You can try using encapsulation to reduce the amount of fields technically, but in the end it's the same amount of information in a single god class.

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wheezy 32 points a year ago

Oh man. You should see the source code for IOS (the Cisco one not Apple).

Spent 5 years working on it out of college. I think it's the most cursed code base you can imagine.

Not necessarily because of the massive struct defs everywhere. They are kinda needed when you're running an entire OS as basically a set of interacting Linux processes pretending to be an OS.

At some point Cisco realized they could not compete without putting a Linux kernel as their base. So they basically just copy and pasted the old code written in the early 90s for the IOS and put it into a set Linux processes.

To be clear. It's not just the front end. They didn't really change the code much from the old IOS. Its a cluster fuck of interprocess communication hacks that probably seemed like a good idea at the time.

It is a massive pain in the ass to code because you're basically doing everything on the Linux kernel and then frustratingly have to write the CLIs for IOS just so Cisco can continue to sell their proprietary OS with some of the most unnecessary hardware locks. Massive learning curve for any new engineer.

Literally, no one on the entire switching team knew how to send a message from a specific process to the IOS process. I had been assigned something that needed it. So I somehow figured it out and was "the guy" for that for the time I spent there.

Fuck. I'm gonna start ranting more if I go any further. But yeah, sometimes you need a massive struct because some idiot decided that forcing a closed source CLI on the market is a good idea for profits.

Definitely not a good idea for coding. But you learn quickly that no one actually cares about good code in this industry. There is no time for it. There is no reason for it. Just spit out garbage until it works and your manager won't care.

If you want clean code. Go write an open source project or a personal project.

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ChickenLadyLovesLife 11 points a year ago

I used to work for Cisco but I can't say what it's like internally. Not because of an NDA but because I literally have no idea. I worked for a much smaller competitor of theirs that they acquired, obviously just to remove a competitor from the marketplace. We were all allowed to work remotely but given nothing at all to do for six months and then everybody (except the executives, of course) was laid off.

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wheezy 3 points a year ago

Literally just had the same thing happen to me. This time at Microsoft. Worked for a small startup. It got bought out in 2023 after investments in actual hardware that wasn't named Nvidia died.

Layoffs on most of our engineers. Somehow I survived and basically did no work for 2 years. Was finally laid off.

I hated it. But I basically stole a salary from Microsoft for two years. Fuck these big tech companies.

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wise_pancake 21 points a year ago

That's not uncommon, is it?

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qqq 10 points a year ago

Not really, but I'd probably try to organize those into sub structures where it made sense. A data structure holding the UI state and FFT data all flat is kinda messy imo since it becomes unclear what is actually required where.

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grue 24 points a year ago

You can tell there ought to be substructures because he used comments to label the different groups. That's a code smell right there.

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qqq 2 points a year ago

Agreed

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wise_pancake 2 points a year ago

Yeah that's what I usually do, as long as it's passed by reference there isn't anything too bad here.

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DrunkEngineer 2 points a year ago

It is spite coding though.

He probably has a bunch of gotos too.

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four 8 points a year ago

That's the State struct. Globally accessible, I'd bet

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SingularEye 31 points a year ago

I love this guy he's a fucking freak of nature

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deegeese 25 points a year ago

Data visualization ≠ UI and signal processing is traditionally done in C

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ulterno 49 points a year ago

That looks like buttons in the thumbnail, on the left of the visualisation.
I'd say that's enough to call it UI.

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zr0 16 points a year ago

UI. User Interface. The bridge between a system and a user. So anything, literally any information transfer from the user to the system OR from the system to the user, is a User Interface.

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deegeese -17 points a year ago

A definition so broad as to be useless.

Is it a UI when someone calls memcpy to move data from a file to a screen buffer?

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lime 17 points a year ago

why would you take the least charitable interpretation? there is no need to be hostile.

and the answer, of course, is that it can be, as long as the information copied is meaningful for displaying to the user.
you're basically asking the equivalent of whether putting things into an array is an algorithm, which of course has the answer "it can be, depending on how you put it in". so basically, the operation you're highlighting is not the point.

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sp3ctr4l 7 points a year ago

Not it isn't.

A command line literally is a UI.

You seem to be confusing GUI and UI?

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deegeese -5 points a year ago

You seem to be confusing C stdlib with a CLI?

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ByteJunk 4 points a year ago

This isn't hard, you're just trying to make it to be.

Memcpy from a file to a screen buffer is as much a UI as pouring water in a pot is a soup.

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zr0 4 points a year ago

I did not make this definition. However, this does not give you the freedom to make up your own definition and treat it as a fact. Don’t spread wrong information.

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xthexder 2 points a year ago

I'm going to go with no, since that step is not transferring data to a human, it's transferring it internally within the computer.
UI can refer to either the medium, such as a visual display, speaker system, or keyboard, and it can also refer to a specific layout of information (like the Qwerty layout, or a webpage layout). I wouldn't consider the USB protocol UI just because it can transmit HID Events, only the keyboard or mouse as a whole is UI.
You could almost call HID events UI, but I'd still argue they're more of a computer-device interface than a human-device interface

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Cethin 4 points a year ago

Would you agree that the dashboard of a car is UI? If so, isn't that just data visualization?

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deegeese 1 point a year ago

Dashboard is a UI fed by signal processing code which is the backend.

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harbard 23 points a year ago

this is like when I built that web server in x86 assembly lol.

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Ad4mWayn3 30 points a year ago

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harbard 3 points a year ago

This. This project drained my soul lol.

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Im_old 9 points a year ago

I bet that thing was fast!

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Ad4mWayn3 11 points a year ago

I mean, just because you implemented something in a low level lang, it doesn't mean you're gonna have the fastest implementation. Even in high level langs, there's usually heavy optimization involved in things that are done all the time (e.g. web servers)

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frezik 9 points a year ago

Meh. Even hosting static files in a RAM disk over localhost, you're 99% as good as you can be by using the sendfile() system call. The kernel can copy data from one file descriptor to another faster than any userspace program can. Implementing the Length header is a stat() call.

If you're not on a RAM disk and not on localhost, then disk access or network throughput will predominate.

Assembly is not magic go faster sauce.

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anton 2 points a year ago

Who do you think is better at writing assembly? @harbard@fedia.io or a modern compiler with hundreds of contributors.

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harbard 5 points a year ago

It’s definitely not me

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harbard 1 point a year ago

yeah, in one sense it was lol.

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laserm 6 points a year ago

I once write a web app in C, but this terrifies even me.. though Tsoding, the guy in the video, did that, too..

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harbard 2 points a year ago

My favorite so far is either my websever in bash or my webserver in Common Lisp. my webserver in C was fun too though

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CookieOfFortune 13 points a year ago

Umm this is just being retro. Like using a film camera.

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01189998819991197253 1 point a year ago

Raw film is objectively higher quality than raw digital. Are you saying that C is objectively higher quality than Rust?

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CookieOfFortune 4 points a year ago

Excerpt film isn’t objectively better…

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01189998819991197253 1 point a year ago

That's what your original comment was eluding to, so I was confirming with you that that's what you meant.

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Phoenix3875 11 points a year ago

React Native

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Blackmist 10 points a year ago

There used to be a UI library on the Amiga called MUI.

It used a bunch of C macros to let you define the window and all the controls. Was honestly pretty good considering it was like 30 years ago.

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gens 9 points a year ago

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Zenoctate 2 points a year ago

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RheumatoidArthritis 2 points a year ago

It was a pleasure to work with!

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Blackmist 2 points a year ago

Right? I can't tell you how disappointed I was to move to a "real" PC later and find the tools to be so much worse. Like you could position stuff with a GUI in VB or Delphi, but if you wanted to resize a window, it was a real faff to get everything moving about as it should.

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Jaruzel 1 point a year ago

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someguy3 9 points a year ago

What's React?

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ByteOnBikes 25 points a year ago

React is what powers your Windows Start Menu.

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camr_on 10 points a year ago

Wtf is that real

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Schmoo 16 points a year ago

Yes, as well as parts of the settings menu. What's not to love about constantly loading and unloading javascript just by clicking around in native apps? CPU spikes are good for your health.

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wheezy 7 points a year ago

Fucking Christ. Glad I left windows behind.

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grendel84 2 points a year ago

@Schmoo @camr_on

Well hey at least React is known to be really secure with sensible package management.

Oh wait I spelled Rust wrong.

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ArmchairAce1944 8 points a year ago

React is a Javascript based web development programming language developed by Facebook to make pages run faster and better. I learned it as part of a MERN stack full web development course.

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grue 22 points a year ago

to make pages run faster and better.

Huh, well that's a funny way of saying "break the model of web page as document and fuck up the entire web!"

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CookieOfFortune 13 points a year ago

Yeah because documents are limiting and we want to do stuff that executables can do but with a better distribution model.

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grue 1 point a year ago

Shoulda been something more like Java Web Start.

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RageAgainstTheRich 7 points a year ago

Oh stop it. Are you saying you don't enjoy pressing the "Back" button in your browser, but staying on the same page. Therefore breaking the page so you refresh and lose whatever the fuck you were doing? /s

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boonhet 2 points a year ago

Yea let's go back to index.php and the 5 second load time for every clicked button

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Lemminary 8 points a year ago

Javascript based web development programming language UI library

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leftytighty 8 points a year ago

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MonkderVierte 3 points a year ago

Used for rendering UIs on a Document Object Model. JS was a mistake.

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snekmuffin 8 points a year ago

can your React do that?? didn't fackin think so dabs mockingly

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yetAnotherUser 6 points a year ago

How I love mista azozin...

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PokerChips 6 points a year ago

This reminds me. I got a search engine to build.

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voodooattack 4 points a year ago

Lakh views? 🤔

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ChairmanMeow 11 points a year ago

Indian

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hraegsvelmir 12 points a year ago

More specifically, an Indian divider for large numbers, kind of like how 万 (read 'man') works in Japanese. While Japanese (and I think Chinese) divide numbers greater than 1,000 in increments of 1万, or 10,000, up until you hit 100,000,000, in India, large numbers get split into lakh, representing groups of 100,000.

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dzsimbo 4 points a year ago

It's so neat how different cultures adapted to numbers. Like French have something like 4 times 20 (and?) 2 to mean 82. In Hungarian if you say billió, that is one trillion rather one billion. We riff on the ending of million to express billion: milliárd.

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sag 3 points a year ago

Oh, Is it my turn to tell the Indian Numbering System?

Here how we divide

100 > Sau Hundred 1000 > Hajar Thousand 1,00,000 > 1 Lakh Hundred Thousand 1,00,00,000 > *1 crore * Ten Million 10⁹ > 1 Arab 100 Crores or 1 Billion 10¹¹ > *1 Kharab * Hundred Billion 10¹³ > 1 Nil Hundred Trillion 10¹⁵ > 1 Padma Quadrillion 10¹⁷ > 1 Sankh Hundred Quadrillion

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voodooattack 1 point a year ago

That’s very informative. Thank you.

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captainlezbian 1 point a year ago

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yetAnotherUser 4 points a year ago

The person on the video, known online as Tsoding (or by some as "mista azozin"), was writing a music visualizer program using the raylib library for writing videogames. raylib doesn't have code aimed at UI handling, meaning he had to manage the UI by himself. He likes doing a little bit of trolling, so that's why he picked that title.

Tsoding does by far the most entertaining recreational programming sessions I have ever seen on the Internet, so, despite them being quite long (about two hours), I recommend you watch at least a little bit of his videos/streams if you have time.

If you're interested specifically on this video in question:

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underscores 4 points a year ago

I'm an elitist asshole and I hate that people say "react dev" when really it's "web dev that uses react"

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GreenKnight23 17 points a year ago

react devs are not web devs. they're special

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jaybone 7 points a year ago

Is this distinction really all that useful?

I suppose you could write a react app that doesn’t use “the web”? But you still might just say they are a react developer.

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Lemminary 2 points a year ago

I think the web part refers to web technologies.

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jaybone 1 point a year ago

Yeah I guess I’m old. Seems like everything is called “web dev” these days.

I was answering a question somewhere related to something like C/C++ and Operating System level stuff. Someone replied asking where I learned “web dev.” I would consider that general programming, or possibly systems programming, but certainly not “web dev.”

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anton 2 points a year ago

There are also react devs creating the windows 11 start menu.

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vala 3 points a year ago

Honestly "C + SDL + Lua" is basically the best, most sane"full stack" I have ever used.

IMO it allows for the perfect level of abstraction.

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veganpizza69 2 points a year ago

laughs in Vaadin

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MITM0 1 point a year ago

I'm still waiting for the day we get a proper alternative to JavaScript.

If I had to make one, it would have a Bash-like syntax

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