Microsoft Finally Realizes Nobody Wants Its Windows 11 Preinstalled Bloatware
3 years ago by fne8w2ah to c/technology
HI! I'm Skype!
uninstall
Hi! I'm Skype!
uninstall
Hi! I'm skype!
"Are you suuuuure you don't want to use Edge? Are you suuuuure you don't want it to be the default handler for .pdf and .svg files? Are you sure? Are you sure you're sure? Just in case, we'll pin it to your start menu again and put a shortcut to it on your desktop. Just until you're sure."
Apple's starting to get more and more into this. Safari pesters you and nobody wants NEWS/Stocks/AppleTv App, Weather, etc. But you can't uninstall them :(
I got so annoyed with the fucking shortcut reappearing that I put it in one corner of one monitor that I hardly look at so it never appears on my main desktop monitor.
Just out of sight and out of mind.
And then they made it where you can't just select a different browser, you have to go manually associate each type with the new browser.
Cortana is being killed and replaced with their ChatGPT Bing thing.
It’s a successful consumer product. Can’t have that under the Microsoft umbrella
Microsoft will punish Halo for each and every fan that failed to spend $2000 on mtx armor colors
Probably. It will be an "essential" part of the OS, like Edge.
Its seemed... better lately. But I used to get skype back every single update when 11 first came out.
Do you have a pro or enterprise license?
What about FUCKING TEAMS
If lemmy had gold I'd give you some
You could always uninstall Teams and still can, regularly via the Settings app.
Why remote desktop? I can understand the rest. But who uninstalls default apps and doesn't use remote desktop?
Very few people use remote desktop.
Very few people bother removing all the default apps in the first place.
The type of high caliber nerd to care about a pre installed app that sits dormant and uses a few MB of storage probably already uses remote desktop often enough they'd want to keep it.
The remote desktop app isn't installed by default. At least I've never seen it installed by default.
People still use team viewer?
Scammers notably of course, but it's Microsoft's sanctioned solution to them removing RDP capability with Azure. I'm super interested in finding out what cut they get or how much TeamViewer payed for that.
I do, though it's rare lately. What do you use instead?
The only exposure I have to windows now is in an Amazon virtual environment so I want aware of this. It seems strange seeing as RDP is a simple and robust solution... Unlike TeamViewer.
Great. Now give them a couple more years to learn they shouldn't be installed by default in the first place.
It sure took them a while, but they seem to finally allow folks to personalize their experience. I'm not going to complain about it, though – this is definitely a good change.
Not far enough. It'd be lovely if I could scale Windows down to almost 7 gigs or so (what windows 10 is, probably should be lower) But the thing is Windows in general is just a bloated piece of crap that continues to grow.
Wait, so of the five apps they will "let" you uninstall now, one makes little sense to have in the consumer edition (remote desktop - which is effectively enabled in Pro only) and one is getting deprecated (Cortana - bye bye!).
The remote desktop they are talking about is the client app used to connect to remote systems.
The remote desktop feature that's limited to Pro is the ability for the system to receive remote connections.
Maybe someday they'll discover checkboxes and use them to not have to install these apps in the first place.
I think I've got it! So on install, we make a checkbox that says:
- do not install web search in the start menu, but also I consent to Microsoft collecting creepy levels of data about me
The more steam deck and proton get games working on linux, the less need I have for this bloated windows.
It's truly ridiculous how much Linux gaming leapfrogged with the Steam Deck. I'm contemplating installing a debian partition for my main PC since I don't really play a lot of games that need anti-cheat.
The madlads really did it.
I've been gaming on Tumbleweed now for a month and my issues are minor enough that a tweak or two gets me flawless performance - and that's if there's an issue. Highly recommend embracing the penguin, comrades.
I installed Fedora on a seperate SSD, and I now dual-boot alongside Windows 11. It took a bit of time and tweaking until I felt comfortable with using Fedora as my daily driver, but it's been great.
Everything is smooth and fast, and I have all the apps I need. Well, almost. I subscribe to Game Pass, and have a couple of Steam games that don't run on Linux, so I have to boot into Windows when I want to play those games. Other than that, it's all great.
Is really just:
- Install any Linux Distro
- See if you have the drivers for your hardware already installed
- Install Steam
- Change the setting for Enable Steam Play on Steam
- Download the game and play it.
Of course, like in windows, something could go wrong and you need to tinker a little bit to fix it but for the vast majority is just like that.
Yeah for both Ubuntu and Arch on two separate computers in my house, the process was just install the distro then install steam + Lutris (steam for steam games, Lutris for every other kind of game like League or WoW).
Installing steam games is identical in Linux and Windows for the vast majority of games. Installing non-steam games is arguably easier since you never have to go to a web browser.
Honestly the only reason Windows is "easier" is because it's preinstalled on computers. As someone who has fresh installed Linux and Windows, Linux is miles easier to install. To install Windows 11 I tried following their recommendations (enabling TPM and secure boot in bios), but the W11 installer still didn't like my 2 year old computer, so had to open up the command prompt, regedit, and add 3 Bypass registry DWord 32 bit values. Then actually installing the O.S you just sit there and wait with an unusable computer. Linux installations have nice GUIs that are far more modern, don't require weird terminal hacks, and you have a usable computer while it's installing (you can open up Firefox and browse the web for example).
\rant
Just adding: if you have an AMD GPU, the drivers are now included in the Linux kernel, so there is no manual install needed for those. For nvidia, you do still have to jump through some install hoops.
The easiest way is to install Steam on your Linux distribution of choice. Next you activate steam play in the steam settings to use the proton compability tool which allows playing windows games on Linux. You can check ProtonDB to see how well your game should work and see if tinkering or additional settings might be needed. A lot of steam games will just work. If you don't want to use steam, you can also try Lutris or Wine directly, but this approach will need ALOT more setting up and tinkering.
Linux gaming will sometimes cost you more effort but I think it's worth it to get away from Microsoft and have my freedom to set up my system how I like. Feel free to ask if you have more questions.
Been a Linux-only gamer for a year now. The hype is real and PC gaming has changed forever. Most people just hesitate to actually leave Windows behind, but the grass on the other side is much, much greener.
I made the switch and everything I want to play works. Some of it needed a bit of tweaking, though. Luckily instructions exist, and some began working with new Proton updates. It's a good time to be a gamer on Linux.
I just hope feature parity happens before MS make their move to reduce windows pcs to literally zero clients that simply stream ´your´ OS to your screen from the cloud.
Don’t need a pc for much but god damn if I don’t want to play my games on my pic when I want. Online, offline, whatever.
It's pretty much at parity. The only straggler I am aware of is ray tracing on the AMD side (supported on their driver package, but not yet with the driver included in the Linux kernel). I never use it anyway because I have a 6600 XT and don't want to play a slideshow.
All we need is starfield on Linux :)
To be clear, they seem to be saying that those apps will still be preinstalled. They'll just be easier to uninstall if you want to do so.
"option for the first time to uninstall the Camera app, Cortana app, Photos app, People app, and the Remote Desktop client. "
But Windows always came with Solitaire - even 30+ years ago. It was included originally to teach users how to use a mouse. Solitaire makes you click, double click and drag.
Removing Solitaire caused its own backlash. They can't win with that one.
my work is transitioning to it soon, I'll have to find similar scrips soonish.
would appreciate it, thanks!!
Windows 11 ships with a shitty featureless version of the remote desktop client. You have to download the "real" or "full" version from the Windows app store.
I found this out incidentally a few weeks ago and it is annoying having the app you need and some random imposter app with the same name clogging up search / start menu.
Have they fixed the store version so it can do multiple monitors yet? Also local folder redirects?
No clue sorry, that's not functionality that I use.
"if I don't use it, it's useless"
For bloatware to be a meaningful term, I think it needs to go beyond just some arbitrary percent of users don't need or use it. For an OS, having baseline apps which are useful across a wide variety of hardware setups and use cases is reasonable, even if they don't apply in your particular situation. Bloat would be superfluous apps that replicate baseline features or baseline apps that have grown in scope beyond what's strictly necessary.
Remote desktop and camera apps are pretty primary pieces of functionality, whether or not you use or need them. Windows is bloated garbage in general but those apps are not really a part of that imo... I don't know if there's really a precise definition of bloatware but I sort of think of it mostly as something that takes up your system resources rather than just hard drive space. Something that runs all or most of the time even though it doesn't actually provide much value
It's bloat because a lot of people will never make use of it, so it's taking up more space (bloating it) for no appreciable gain. It should be easy to install if you do want to make use of it, but not literally every piece of software should be installed just because some people will use it.
It coming pre-installed is also harmful to third parties. Many will just choose the MS version because it's already there, rather than potentially find another group who's made similar (maybe even better) software for the same purpose.
Let's cut the crap: it's not that they "realized" nobody wants it -- it's that they've come to accept the blowback against their reputation has gotten too big to outweigh the potential pros of preinstalled bloatware supporting their strategy.
They always knew, they just didn't care.
Im running Windows 11 on my new laptop. Every major update it's like:
- PLZ LET EDGE BE UR BROWSER
- BRO PLZ, OFFICE SUBSCRIPTION
- LOCATION?
- Let me just install tiktok and FB apps.
My laptop officially supports Ubuntu, think I might make the switch full time. I don't game on my laptop and most of it's use is browser, plex and emails...
First off love the way you described them. Secondly, it reminds me of how microsoft keeps trying to charge my empty fake credit card I use for Xbox game pass. (You need to put a credit card to get any free month so I use a dummy). I get an email when they charge it literally twice a week like PLEASE JUST A SCRAP OF MONEY
They will just be replaced with something else that you can't remove.
Gradeschoolers, yes.
Boomers are still struggling even with the modern, simplified UI. They would likely continue to struggle if we had Idiocracy style UI on things (big, bright colored buttons with pictures of what they do).
I'm amazed they can sort of navigate an iphone
Gradeschoolers, yes.
Not so much anymore. Gradescoolers all grew up on iPads and are probably worse off than boomers.
Er, it's not the boomers who are struggling. They're barely even in the workforce anymore.
I know it's fun to rag our boomer parents and grandparents but it was boomers who designed the older, "complex" UI for usage by other boomers. Since boomers are now dropping out of the workforce (25% of it right now) it seems likely that the UI is being dumbed down for the much larger Gen-X/Millennial/Gen Z workforce.
Yeah, there's now a lot of people who have actually never used a desktop OS, and the only OS they've used being a phone or tablet. Those people are more having an influence on dumbing down the OS now. It's pretty crazy how compute illiterate newer generations have become due to shift in what is considered their primary OS. Some people don't even have laptop or desktops.
I see both kinds of Boomers. My dad, a boomer, is in the tech industry. He is a software engineer. My grandpa was also a software engineer. Everyone I know from his side of the family has been in tech.
And then there is every boomer I know that isn't my own family and they are practically luddites. I know the former can exist. But it seems rare.
LoL, tell that to every fucking child and teenager who have been using an iPhone, iPad and MacOS for all their lives. It's unbelievable how stupid you can get when you're locked into a walled garden and the OS you're using is designed for three year olds. I have a buddy who's mainly a Mac and iPhone guy, and I fuck you not, he doesn't know how to use anything else. He'll just stare at the screen and simply don't understand what to do.
Agreed. I have been working so hard to get my young kids to understand file systems, directory structures, keyboard shortcuts, etc; all that stuff that just never gets learned anymore with all the iOS/Android interactions.
I’m building a new PC for myself in the next few weeks and if they want to continue playing Genshin/Starcraft2/BeamNG/Trackmania on my older PC as it becomes the “Family PC” they will need to sit with me and learn how to reassemble it, install Windows, attaching peripherals, and setup a few basic things.
That’s the price and that’s the reward.
Many of us grew up in a world where you had to figure this shit out or simply not have a working computer/piece of software.
They did care, they just cared about the money instead.
Yeah what a weird title, they know exactly what they are doing.
Using Windows primarily for gaming, I eventually got tired of some of the issues I had with it (ads appearing in the start menu). I gave Linux a try and it was so so for a while. I kept going back and forth but it's been 2 years now and I haven't had Windows installed and can play 90% of my games without issue. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. But for those that primarily use their computer for gaming and non-windows specific applications (like web browsing or other various things), Linux is offering some competition for desktop people.
linux seems to work pretty well until it doesnt and then it really doesnt work. seems that there's still some hardware incompatibility issues
That's why I stopped using it at home (apart from stuff like like NAS, routers, etc).
This was a few years ago so perhaps it's been addressed now. I installed Ubuntu and downloaded Steam to install. It wouldn't. I can't remember exactly why but I had to find answers online and quickly gave up.
I turned that laptop on over a year later and Ubuntu was out of date and needed upgrading. It couldn't install the latest version because it needed to upgrade to versions in between, some of which have been moved to archive. I installed Windows 10 instead.
I'm responsible for a couple of Linux servers at work so I'm sure I could have addressed these issues at home, but I really couldn't be bothered when I have better things to spend my time on. I just wanted a working Laptop that gets used occasionally.
What do you mean "needed upgrading"? There was some software that required newer dependencies?
Anyway, you might try rolling-release distro, they just can't have "update to version in between" because all versions are same version.
I agree completely. I've been lucky enough to have only an issue where Steam keeps my computer from sleeping regardless of power save settings. I've had friends that have tried the same set up as me, and for some reason the computer fails to boot after a simple upgrade (apt upgrade). So I really do mean it when I wouldn't recommend it. But if someones feeling adventurous it can be fun to try out and see if it works for you.
Some games use kernel-level anticheat. Unfortunately, because there is a kernel driver involved, it must be specifically ported to Linux, and some developers simply don't want to bother.
examples: Valorant, Roblox, PUBG
It's mostly going to be games that use anti-cheat software (though some work on Linux.)
So if you're someone who likes to bounce around to the hot new competitive online multiplayer title then Linux probably wont serve your needs right now. If you can't think of a single esports title you want to play, once you install Steam and Lutris you'll probably find nearly everything you want to play works.
I run No Man's Sky on Nobara Linux, installed it on my old laptop that barely gets by on Windows. Really breathed new life into it and I haven't had troubles.
Just installed it on steam after checking the box for proton compatibility. You might need to run a task kill command if it gets stuck in a DirectX install loop on launch but other than that it's been smooth sailing for me.
BG 3 runs on the Steam deck, mostly without issues (except for those that aren't Linux related, like text being hard to read due to the small display and lower frame rate due to the portable hardware).
I can say offhand that No Man's Sky put a lot of extra time and effort into their Steam Deck support so that definitely works. Otherwise your best bet is to check either the Steam listing for a game (check the Deck Verified rating. Anything rated "playable" or "verified" should work pretty seemlesly on any Linux gamingPC) or https://www.protondb.com/ (a user run listing of the compatibility of different games. A good resource and often has some troubleshooting advice. Unfortunately it can often have outdated or just inaccurate information as it's all based on user reports. Still usually a pretty good indication of compatibility.) There's no indication on either regarding Starfield compatibility. Given that it's probably too resource intensive for the Deck it may not get as much special attention from Valve as something like Elden Ring (which ran better on Linux than any other platform after it was out for a few days and Valve had added a patch to Proton to fix an issue that the developers took longer to patch in the game itself.) Chances are pretty good it'll work though (assuming your hardware can run it.) The Steam page for Baldur's Gate 3 says it's Steam Deck Verified so it'll just work so long as you launch it through Steam. Here's the protondb page for reference https://www.protondb.com/app/1086940 . Crusader Kings III, Rimworld and Stellaris apparently all have native Linux ports so, while you may find reasons to prefer running the Windows versions with Proton, you don't actually need to check for any special compatibility. They just are Linux games.
Most of the Paradox games support Linux natively. I play Europa Universalis 4, Stellaris, Crusader Kings 2 (haven't bought 3 yet but it has native support), Hearts of Iron 4. Victoria 2 doesn't have native support and I didn't get Vic 3 but it is supported. Rimworld is native, so is Factorio.
Have a look at what you want to play on protondb.com and figure out if gaming on Linux works for you. Baldur's Gate 3 has a gold rating (gold being one level lower than platinum - the best rating for non-native games) which for all practical purposes should work.
EDIT: I recommend installing Proton Glorious Eggroll in addition to the native Proton on Steam if you can't get a game running with the native Proton despite protondb reports saying the game works. The installation is fairly straightforward, just read and follow the installation instructions on the page.
Mostly games with anticheat or very new games. Everything else pretty much just works especially older games. I needed to visit pcgamingwiki all the time to get older games to work on windows but for linux I mostly just visit protondb and find out I don't need to do anything or need to just put in launch command. System shock 1 was the only game I had to actually go through a process to get it running with audio.
The biggest one I miss, and it works, but the anti-cheat keeps me from my favorite servers is anything from the Red Orchestra series. I really enjoy their newer game Rising Storm 2 but the vast majority of the servers are protected with an anti-cheat that keeps me from joining. I've found a couple servers that don't use the anti-cheat and I can play on those, but they're not quite the same as some of the servers I have as favorites that are playable on Windows. Otherwise, most things generally work good, biggest problem is with launchers, and even those can be bypassed or fixed, but I've gotten to the point in my life where I just want things to work without having to remember what config files I've changed or futz with that may break in the future. The other games that I've had that don't work may as well now, but honestly I've forgotten what they were. One that I don't play, that I know a lot of people do is Destiny and I saw that they'll ban you if you try on Linux. But I've only heard that as I haven't played that on PC.
EAC (Easy AntiCheat) works just fine on Linux as long as the developer enables it. There are very few anti-cheats that don't work anymore. The ones that aren't as big like Vanguard, which is Valorant's anti-cheat, don't work, but Battleye, EAC, and VAC works just fine.
beyond anti-cheat and "just came out" there's one more category that often doesn't work: not-new, obscure games.
Anything that isn't pretty new and/or pretty popular may need to you run through some hoops to get running right.
If you like jumping from game to game a lot, I wouldn't recommend Linux, but if you stick to a few and play them for a long time (and you don't mind the extra work it is to learn a new OS) I think it would be worth making the switch.
Check out protondb.com for a pretty great resource in what games work/kind of work/don't work on linux (with proton specifically, which is how most people play Windows games on Linux). It's far more accurate than even Steam's own "verification" system for Steam Deck.
It's pretty amazing what they've done with it over the past few years.
The ads in Windows 11 are a dogshit feature, but you can turn them off in the settings.
Yea I've always found that complaint odd. I just assumed everyone who makes it also has the activate windows watermark, and thus can't access the option.
Great point. I still don't have an HDR monitor but that could be nice. Plus, if everything's working for you no need to switch it up! It's great that Microsoft is adding the ability to remove some of the programs a lot of people don't / wont use without having to copy and paste powershell commands. I remember there were some scripts / instructions on how to uninstall what would otherwise be uninstallable programs by opening a powershell as an administrator. I don't have anything against Windows, I just got tired of having so many ads put into my start menu and ads in the weather widget they added to the task bar after I paid $100+ for the OS way back when. But I'm not sure how their handling the "price" of Windows now.
A vegan, Linux using crossfitter walks up to you. What do they tell you about first?
How to tell if someone uses Windows? Don't worry, they will loudly bitch about how it sucks then proceed to shit on Linux users.
(This isn't you it's just something I'm seeing a lot more often lately)
It's the new iOS vs Android with everyone acting like tribal high schoolers weeee
Not even systemd?
I’m not forced to keep anything on Linux
KNotes has entered the chat…
Edit: apparently it’s not KNotes proper - just the built-in KDE sticky notes applet that is bundled with the environment and is impossible to remove if you want to use KDE Plasma.
I don't give a shit, I'll use other programs to uninstall whatever I want.
Call me when I can use a vertical task bar. Until then, I'm sticking with win10.
it's crazy to think that you can't just uninstall some apps in the first place even though it would be technologically possible
a beta build of Windows 11 in the Canary Channel includes the option for the first time to uninstall the Camera app, Cortana app, Photos app, People app, and the Remote Desktop client.
Still no Microsoft edge though...
If I could also get the ability to disable internet search results from the start menu that'd be great. So sick of looking for a file or app, hitting enter a second too soon, and having Edge slowly eat my resources to display a Bing search result that I never wanted.
That is fixable via regedit, I believe.
But yeah, I've recently fully migrated to Linux and can run Windows in a virtual machine if I ever need it for work. In setting that up, it made me realize just how much junk and telemetry is included by default in Windows 11 and how sluggishly it runs compared to Linux.
What version on Linux is most like Windows? I'm not a gamer and nearly everything I do runs in a browser so compatibility isn't going to be an issue, but any time I've tried to migrate over it's been a nightmare of weird errors and non-stop troubleshooting
Wish there were simple answer to that question, however it really comes down to do the preferences of the individual user.
First thing you should do is decide which desktop environment you're going to use. This, after all, determines the workflow and the feel of the UI.
None of them are exactly like Windows, so it's hard to say which one is "most like" it. People at this point will typically say Cinnamon or KDE Plasma, but as someone who prefers a keyboard-driven UI, Gnome felt the most comfortable for me when I first ventured into the world of Linux as a Windows user.
To be honest, the best thing to do is to try out different Linux distros in a virtual machine or Live USB so you can see which one feels most natural to you.
Some good starting ones are:
- Linux Mint (Cinnamon)
- Nobara (Gnome & KDE)
- OpenSUSE Tumbleweed (Gnome & KDE)
- Pop OS! (Gnome)
Plenty of good info there, thanks for the thorough response. I'll probably go the live USB route, which I'd forgotten was a thing. That way any hardware issues should be apparent pretty quickly
If you want a windows like environment I would recommend Linux mint with cinnamon. The key is to remember that you can’t run windows programs without using steam, Lutris, wine or bottles. Windows programs rely on the registry and .exe files.
Or if you don’t want to run mint, you can run just about any distro with cinnamon or if you like tweaking your environment you can use KDE and stiill have a windows like environment.
Pop!_os is another popular one being referred to new windows migrants.
Use everything to search. It just works and can replace the search button in the start menu
You can turn that off in Group Policy if you have the Pro version of Windows.
Good, maybe in two or three more years Windows 11 will be useable. Right on time for Windows 12 to roll out and drag Microsoft users back to the Stone Age again.
If the pattern holds Windows 12 might actually be good
The pattern reads like superstition in the first place.
It is. However, having lived through Windows Me and then having to support Windows Vista shortly after launch, I drink deeply of that Kool-Aide. Microsoft seems to inflict monumentally bad ideas on their customers with every other version, with minor bad ideas sprinkled in between. Though really, the smart response to a new Windows version will always be, "Wait for Service Pack 2". That usually give Microsoft enough time to sort out the worst of the bad ideas, while still updating early enough to not be running an unsupported version.
Can you tell me what was wrong with Vista? I was too green when it was released. All I remember about it is that the buttons looked (I don't know the term for it) jelly-like instead of flat.
If the pattern holds windows 12 will be windows 14.
That "pattern" (and I know it's probably meant to be more of a joke) is skewed to make it look like it's true. If 98 and 98 SE are separate for example, so should Windows 8.1 be, because it was quite a different beast from 8(.0). Actually, 8.1 was very solid, it had a lot of the "under the hood" improvements that Windows 10 had, but wasn't nearly as bloated.
Windows 10 or 11 are on a similar level of "bloated mess" to me, with Windows 10 having the advantage of an LTSC version existing, which is essentially an official "debloat". I'll probably jump to Windows 11 LTSC when it releases sometime in (likely) 2024.
I'm a CG artist and I dual boot Fedora on my workstation and run it on my file/license server. I'm very familiar with Linux and it's great for a lot of things.
A ton of my software runs much better than on windows and I would stay in it if I could, but unfortunately I have software needs that don't run on Linux and can't work in a VM in full capacity.
Windows 11 Pro, now with NOTHING installed. Windows 11 Pro plus, now with firefox pre-installed so you can clame your system never had edge on it!
every few reboots it asks me to install it and it's really fucking annoying and I have a feeling I'm not going to have a choice at some point. my wife installed it accidentally and now she's fucked. the thing fucking sucks.
Mmm that's not really realizing anything.
You know what sort of tom fuckery I had to get into to get my gaming laptop working? I had to find a sketchy windows 10 LTS IOT ISO, run some registry hack then find and install all my drivers just because the regular working consumer edition of windows is such a bag of bloat..
For hardware I paid for..! Next time I'm just going with system76 right out of the gate. I just kept reading reviews about things not working right or still being in development so I bought a mainstream laptop with a warranty.
A lot of linuxy or FOSS sort of stuff is still buggy despite being better than it was ten years ago. No one talks about it. Purism phone, pine phone, Linux gaming, the steam deck, etc. They all have major flaws or sometimes breaks in functionality. Where mainstream has breaks 1/10 even the best Linux setup has breaks 1/5 of the time minimum. And that's great but it still sucks that you have to look elsewhere because mainstream is a monetization sponge in all senses of the phrase.
So much drama. Anyone still using Windows must not dislike the behavior enough to switch.
I've used Linux for over 10 years now because I disliked this Microsoft culture even back then with Windows 8 or whatever it was back then. Why are people still using Windows today when Linux is easier than ever?
Windows 7 was a good OS, it tended to not spy on the user. You can see the difference in installation options if you put it into a virtual machine and run it. Compare with today's windows.
Then compare Linux distros 10 years ago with current ones. Only gotten easier to use and much better looking.
Other than Corrana I use these on a daily basis. I'd rather they stop opening edge whenever I mistype in the start menu.
massgrave.dev
Nice site, didn't know you could run a command with PowerShell.
no shit.
Removing the RDP client is an interesting one. May just be bizarre to me because I use it on a daily basis.
I was not even aware it could not be uninstalled, especially since some Home versions of Windows appear to come without it.
It needs USB support.
I ignore them. Since January 2022 I've used exclusively macOS & Linux and you can't go wrong with that. macOS for my daily driver work laptop (M1 MacBook Pro) and Arch Linux for my home server, though I do enjoy using it a lot for work and if this mac ever stops working I will definitely build a framework Linux laptop. Nothing comes close to FoSS, don't have to put up with most of this proprietary business-oriented software.
Ms paint is the only truly necessary default windows app
Tragically, that seems to be being slowly deprecated in favor of shittier modern equivalents
While I'm not mad at all that they've killed Cortana as a service, I am a little ticked that they used the name for their C- Siri and are now calling their AI service Bing AI instead of using the Cortana name for that
Wait someone used cortana?
That was my thought too. I use none of those type of programs. I know how to work a computer or some other device. I don't need to command it like a dog.
This is my favorite description of voice commands 😂
yeah but now I can't stop thinking about how I'm not asking my devices to do things - instead I just force them to with my hands...
How is this company finding that out only just now lol
I would love to see/feel Windows is reaching the point where it's a small program with tons of optional programs, but god damn, I'm so sick of these bloated fucking OSes.
Android now takes 20+ gigs, Windows takes massive amounts of hard drive. And I know someone will say there's a way to configure it, but the amount of bloat that people just accept on programs is insane.
It's silly when Call of duty Warzone requires 150 GB, it's a bigger problem when windows continues to consume more and more memory with out a good reason other than pushing new products and services most customers don't want/use.
I mean yeah. It doesn't have to even be "Linux" but a smaller required core library, instead of every application getting forced onto a user computer. I've a theory that over 90 percent of a computer's hardware is only required because of coding standards that could be improved. (Small more efficient code versus get it shippable and move on)
I'm a little impressed Linux hasn't had the massive bloat that most of the programming industry has taken on. "Let's pull in every library, take up more space and never optimize code". Linux seems to have avoided that, and that's a good sign. I don't even think it's a OSS thing, because many OSS software slowly bloat up when people keep adding features to them. Linux has avoided that so kudos to them.
They've known since all their other shitty windows. It's been ass since xp
speak for yourself. I love XP and I'm super into vaporwave which has a huge following for nostalgia of that era.
I mean 10 is what I have now. It's pretty mid. But I agree, 7 was pure garbage lol
Yeah win7 is good, but god damn, I have windows 11 on my work laptop, FML. Are they just trying to turn it into the Mac os? Whyyyyyy, what have they done. I use to have to click multiple buttons just to do the normal right click properties. They fixed that, but I still can't stand it. I remember back when they released one of them after 7, doing everything to disable all the crazy services. Havnt bothered messing with that again though.
Most recently, trying to directly access user files through explorer. More disturbingly, while trying to uninstall "system" software. It seems like windows resembles unrooted android more and more with each version.
Do you know what nostalgia means?
I assume you think it comes with a time limit? :/
xp was pretty solid. win7 was iffy for a year or so then it was solid. win8 was trash but 8.1 was really decent. win10 is their best OS yet imho, though it had similar issues to win7 - kinda shit at first. thinking I might skip win11 until it gets to be solid as well - probably 2025/26 at the earliest.
Most of that is default in Edge due to Chromium?
I'd pay extra for a windows that has nothing except the settings, task manager and the file explorer.
Why not use Linux? It will have exactly what you want, nothing more, northing less, it's free and beautiful and easy to use. There are open source variants for just about any software that you want..
I don't get why people still out up with windows
The right Linux setup actually isn't that difficult. Relatively modern Linux is brain dead easy in comparison to how it used to be. I've been using computers since I was 8 in the 80's. Back then even before using DOS, computers were extremely difficult to use and had near vertical learning curves. Even the early version of Windows could be pain in the arse to get certain things done/figure out; it was the just the nature of computers at the time.
These days modern operating systems such as Windows have been refined to the point where practically anyone can use it and get around with little difficulty. That is great and all but that is part of the problem. The bar has been dropped so low that if any of the users get provided any form of unexpected technical adversity that was prevalent in computers just some decades back; they consider it impossible to use. The biggest issue is most computer users these days are completely intellectually lazy when it comes to using them and how they work. Never in history has the technology been so widely available and yet the lack of understanding by its users has reached drastic levels of proportion.
Its not that people aren't able to learn, they just don't even care to even try. And yet these same people will go out 5 minutes later and do something else just as technically involved such as rebuilding a combustion engine or rewiring an electrical circuit in a DC motor or a myriad of other things.
Yeah I do agree modern Linux is easier to use at least for basic task, but once something break or you need to install a software that requires a lot of dependencies or configurations that's another story, I'm still new to Linux and I can't remember how many times I accidentally break the entire OS and needed to reinstall again
Haha, I actually am and run Linux on my main machine and other machines in the house, I explained in my other post why I need windows.
yeah, I've done my best to remove it all and have it in a pretty good spot at this point.
My windows install is from 2009 when windows 7 was released and hasn't been fresh installed since. Hardware has changed 5 times since then and it's still running like day one.
Every two windows version is a disaster. 95 nice, 98 sucked, XP was great, vista was a flop, 7 wow, 8 eurk, 10 marvelous, 11 is shit... They don't learn. But this time the goal is to make more money through adds, widgets and preinstalled bloatware.
Does anyone want windows 11 at all?
Not seen a single new feature in windows I cared about since XP 64 bit.
I’ve been using it for quite a while now… it’s fine. This happens literally every single time a new windows version comes out.
The only genuinely bad Windows IME was ME. Vista had driver teething problems, and 8 had a weird UI, but outside of that… they’re all just fine.
I’ve been building PCs since the late 90s and have pirated Windows from 98 on up.
Our users have postponed receiving new laptops because of the negative response they've heard from others in the company using Windows 11. Stuff just breaks all the time. Lenovo docking stations have consistent monitor issues on 11. We spend a majority of our time fixing little things we never would have thought about on 10.
Really? You mean we can now move the taskbar to the left or right? What about the taskbar right click options? All back? It finally has a proper dedicated tablet mode? I can group apps in the start menu again as opposed to having a launcher copied from Android? My events show in the taskbar calendar again? The right click menu doesn't make me click twice for almost everything anymore?
If so, cool. I'll switch.
If not, 10 it is.
Same, tho sometimes updates get messed up (unable to install) bcs of that and ofc you have to recheck your settings with every update.
There are also lil apps that help you with that.
In other news the sky is blue and water is wet.
Truly, we are on the cusp of great discoveries.
What a time to be alive!
Water isn't wet, it does make things wet though.
If "wet" is defined as the state of a given area of matter in large part touching water, then water is wet, too, since it's touching itself.
...I could have phrased that to sound less like masturbation.
Can water be dry?
Dehydrated water: just add water.
Sure: Dry Steam
True. Every semester, I have some young genius who thinks they’ve gotten one over on the prof. Love this response. :)
Cool. Oil is wet
Yes, it is.
Dry cleaning fluid too!
Is there something like LTSC/LTSB for Windows 11?
I have Win10LTSC installed on a separate partition for games and the thought of having to "upgrade" to Windows 11 at some point in the future is nightmare inducing.
IIRC that’s scheduled for 2024
Yep. Did the same with most of it but Cortana broke something I used. There's a tool that makes a lot of this stuff easier.
I will gladly install windows 12 beta immediately after it is released so I can help Microsoft perform bug testing for free.
You’re already doing it unless you’re running an LTSC release
more like they finally found a large source of revenue compared to their OS, so they can stop selling out... duh?
I was dealing with a boot kit exploit a couple years back.
On the great side (for me) Microsoft's shitty fucking online installation requirements helped prompt me permanently switching to Linux.
On the negative side the issues were still there.
On the positive side I learned about air gapping a pc.
On the native side the issues were still there.
On the negative my self installed deadbolt was a waste of $40 because I forgot my fucking keys in it once and the issue was still there. Also I didn't install it properly.
On the positive side my new deadbolt evidently works.
On the negative side it cost me $500 in addition to brand new hardware and the cost of a locksmith to install it securely.
On the mixed side I epoxied my windows shut, which was a very elegant solution by my apartment being very easy to break in to.
On the positive side I won't even touch windows now, and my knowledge of how a pc and operating system works has increased exponentially under Linux and I actually understand a little bit of C, in addition to bash and Python, which is, awesome.
On the positive my home is secure which is awesome.
On the negative side: WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
On the mixed side I also no longer order from Amazon. Or order electronics from anywhere.
Once I cared about preinstalled bloatware. As long as it is inactive and small I stopped caring. The named apps together aren't even 200MByte.
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Tldr: Remote desktop, Cortana, camera, people app are all getting uninstall buttons.
save