Is it bad takes, controversial posts, or something else?
Is it bad takes, controversial posts, or something else?
I think instances with ideological underpinnings is fine, and maybe inevitable. The crucial thing is that they need to be honest about it, so that those not interested can go elsewhere.
The problem with lemmy.ml is that it pretends to be a catch-all instance when it's in fact very much not, and that it doesn't tell users up front what it's all about. Both Hexbear and Lemmygrad are better in that respect—at least they're honest.
Part of the sign up process I went through was to copy a line from something Marx wrote (can't remember now I'm a bad communist) to be approved for an account.
Maybe it wasn't like that in the past but it was made clear in the sign up processs that the admins are ML communists and run their instance with those beliefs informing their moderation decisions.
Technically it's Engels, in The Principles of Communism, last I checked.
I joined during the Reddit exodus and I didn't have to do that. Was a little shocked to learn that later.
Btw, the ml in lemmy.ml stands for Marxist-Leninist if you didn't know. The moderation on lemmy.ml has been consistently removing posts and banning people for posting anything pro-US, pro-EU or pretty much pro-anything that's not capitalism. Notable exceptions to that rule are Russia and China where their capitalism and imperialism are ok.
My personal political ideology is social democracy with heavy emphasis on the social part but that's too moderate apparently.
My personal political ideology is social democracy
As far as they are concerned you are a graduate of the Austrian School of Economics.
Foe the little time I spend there I'm pretty sure it's not only that, it sounds a lot like they were pit together by some russian/chinese propaganda offices. The amount of praise and propaganda, sometimes even dumb ones, is out of normal political debate
The thing that is funny about Piefed vs. Lemmy is the level of authoritarian control the admin has over what you see and whether votes count or not. Specifically, they can open each instance connected with them and add a vote weight to the instance. So if they didn't like ML, instead of blocking the instance, you can set the weight to 0, and then those users would have no idea that their votes do not contribute to a rank at all. You can take an individual user and set their account to ban comments, ban posts, or both, which effectively shadow bans a user. If they're remote, the comments, or posts never arrive at the piefed instance. None of this is visible to the end user, by the way, no alerts that this is happening to your account. You can be kicked from a community by moderators, an action that you will not even know is happening to you.
It leaves you to wonder how much of what you're seeing is an accurate tally of votes and score. It seems driven purely to keep out opposing perspectives and stifle thought. None of these "tanky" instances have this level of user and content manipulation at their disposal. The Admin of a piefed instance can shape the feed silently, and without users even knowing it is happening, through the use of vote weights. Which is a pretty nasty feature if I'm being honest. One of the things people assumed was happening on Reddit was that the feed wasn't an honest representation of user activity, that the feed itself was ideologically bias (one way or the other), and yet piefed explicitly gives you those tools.
I have just added code which makes the instance vote weight visible in the UI - https://codeberg.org/...
You can go to https://piefed.social/instances and check the vote weight of any instance. It'll be very boring tho because they're all set to "Votes are weighted at the normal level." Yes, even lemmy.ml.
The thing that is funny about Piefed vs. Lemmy is the level of authoritarian control the admin has over what you see and whether votes count or not. Specifically, they can open each instance connected with them and add a vote weight to the instance. So if they didn’t like ML, instead of blocking the instance, you can set the weight to 0, and then those users would have no idea that their votes do not contribute to a rank at all.
Are any Piefed instances doing any of this right now?
You can take an individual user and set their account to ban comments, ban posts, or both, which effectively shadow bans a user. If they’re remote, the comments, or posts never arrive at the piefed instance. None of this is visible to the end user, by the way, no alerts that this is happening to your account.
I'm not aware of this. In any case, the ban functions on Piefed are undergoing changes right now anyway.
You can be kicked from a community by moderators, an action that you will not even know is happening to you.
When you say "moderators" do you mean admins here or community moderators?
The Admin of a piefed instance can shape the feed silently, and without users even knowing it is happening, through the use of vote weights. Which is a pretty nasty feature if I’m being honest. One of the things people assumed was happening on Reddit was that the feed wasn’t an honest representation of user activity, that the feed itself was ideologically bias (one way or the other), and yet piefed explicitly gives you those tools.
I can see a valid use-case for smaller instances that might want to elevate their own communities within their own local feeds. I think it would be pretty poor if any larger instance used this tool, but I am sure that all of these toggles can display publicly - so users on an instance would know if their experience is being gamed or curated by the admins of a local instance.
Yeah, it's not that people don't like the lemmy.ml users, or even really their mods...
It's (at least one of) the admins.
If they see something they don't like on their server, they delete it and give a very very short ban. Because they don't want those people gone. They want them enraged and chomping at the bit to come back.
It's ran like a troll instance, and it's not alone.
The only time they permanently ban someone, is when they see someone in a neutral place they can't control talking about it. Advocate for people blocking them, and they don't want anyone signed up to their instance seeing your comments
No, their users are by and large insufferable fascist sympathisers. They're the reason ML gets a bad reputation.
The admins over there have some profoundly questionable views, which tends to push away reasonable people and attract bootlickers.
Such as?
Lots of fairly wild accusations being made throughout this thread that I'd love to read up on to avoid the "just trust me bro" axiom.
https://sh.itjust.works/c/meanwhileongrad
This should get you up to speed.
I would just link people to the Megathread:
O damn that's way better
Why would you make this comment? Did you think it added to the discussion?
Because you asked:
The admins over there have some profoundly questionable views, which tends to push away reasonable people and attract bootlickers.
Such as?
Generally answering a question tends to add to a discussion, yes.
Tankies traditionally but more recently pro-Russian imperial fascists, ruZi if you will.
I'd like to fully agree, but modern Russia is not even close to the old school soviet which they idolize.
I got banned for calling that yogurtz guy a ruski simp.
And I'll do it again.
That's because they think Ukrainians are Nazis because Putin said so.
Ok buddy
Look at Godlesscommies posts as an example. Complete moron who thinks Ukraine are all Nazis and that Russia is saving the day by murdering them, kidnapping their children, and stealing their land.
They'll never consider that Russia aligned with the Nazis at the beginning of WW2, they'll never see China and Russia as more imperialist than America, and they try to hide behind the guise of communism or socialism being a decent idea because on paper everyday people share the wealth, but ignore that literally every one of their dog shit communist countries are authoritarian dictatorships who have no qualms killing anyone or engaging in genocide.
You don't have a banned tag and there is nothing in the mod logs? What do you mean you were banned?
This is an alt, they said elsewhere. They were banned on their .ml account.
When it comes up, which isn't too often, I find I'm not really the model archetypal .ml user in outlook and have run afoul of a few people that took exception to that there, but that came in the form of angry comments about the thing I said and either the literal meaning of it or sometimes what they took it to mean, and for a forum that seems entirely appropriate. I was briefly banned from one of the communities there once too because I was accused of being a bot. Funnily enough I actually didn't notice that and it had been overturned by the time found out there was a modlog and figured this out.
It would be hard for me to know obviously, but based on this experience, it doesn't seem to me that they're particularly ban-happy, particularly not instance wide. Kind of a bummer that happened to you. I'm fairly happy basing my account there and speaking my mind when I see fit. I do pick up the prevailing winds and can accurately presume what would and wouldn't be taken well, but I don't generally feel a need to self-censor or worry about bans.
My ban has been lifted now. Are you able to tell me how to find the modlog? I'd like to see what they actually banned me for. There was a point where I said I thought Russia should be broken up and given to it's neighbors and they started responding by claiming I wanted nuclear war and posting pictures of Hitler. It was pretty over the top. I am wondering if that was what got me the ban. When I log in to my ml account I can't find anything, no message or anything, that says what the ban was for.
I'm sure I remembered it being easier, but basically if you access the Lemmy instance in question via a browser rather than an app (might work on apps too but not mine), there's a modlog link at the bottom of the page which shows you the mod activity generally, and then on that page you can filter by user and type the name of the user who's modlog you'd like to see.
Thanks! It says I broke rule 1: "No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia." However I don't see where I did that. Re-reading all the comments I don't say anything like any of those.
https://lemmy.ml/post/39952570
If someone sees where I did it I will admit that I was wrong. I'm not above admitting I'm wrong, but I don't see it.
No proof but instead saying asking for proof is a bad thing.
Oh, hi, it's Mr Asymmetric Demands for Proof again!
How about for a change, you go and dig about in the modlog instead of demanding everyone else does?
Provide a witness statement that you found out their .ml username and searched the modlog and found nothing, and you'll lend your viewpoint a shred of credibility. But without that, all we have to go on is your weird demands for proof that behaviour we all know the .ml mods are renowned for actually happened again for the 1758th time.
If someone says something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
I say that you argued with me for hours and hours yesterday after I said that you were as unnecessarily argumentative and bad at backing down as the person you were calling toxic. I recall finding it amusingly ironic. I remember you being particularly upset when I pointed out that calling me names wasn't really proving me wrong. That's when you started swearing at me in DMs and calling me things you weren't prepared to call me in public.
I refuse to supply a link. Am I lying?
TL;DR Demanding proof that something that happens a lot happened again is reality denial masquerading as rationality.
How about for a change, you go do the research to prove me wrong instead of demanding everyone else does?
Flat earthers when told to have proof:
More like flat earthers demanding proof that the world is round. Who disbelieves that .ml mods ban a lot of people for critisizing former communist countries?
Weird, there's no history in your mod log.
May we have the previous account for proof via mod logs?
So what, I get banned on any other ml and need to make another account? What does that benefit me? The conversation went just like it went here. Except I was called Hitler. To be fair, after being called Hitler I called someone else Hegseth.
Weird how he's not giving us the alt, I'm sure there's no reason to do that. Context and evidence is bad, I guess.
It's the same username, just on .ml. They're just really obnoxious, the sort who goes down fighting about being allowed to say slurs while pretending it's about some higher principle.
Oh wow I'm so shocked that the person was banned for slurs and claims the mods were evil.
After four days on that instance, have you not figured it out for yourself yet?
You will, eventually
Edit: a bit of instance-hopping is not unusual in the beginning. Part of the Lemmy experience is finding an instance where you feel comfortable. That might take a while and more than a few attempts.
Just a side note
The instance you’re on doesn’t really matter very much if you never read the local feed. If you do, you’ll definitely notice the local vibe sooner or later.
If you’re on an instance that is widely defederated, you may also notice that it’s difficult to find communities. Also, people may comment on your instance if it happens to be particularly notorious. The server hardware and bandwidth may also matter in some extreme cases.
Other than that, instances don’t really matter that much.
There are some exceptions to this. Blahaj blocks downvotes, for example. You can downvote a post on Blahaj, but people (like me) with accounts on Blahaj cannot downvote nor can they see downvotes. I'm sure there are other instances doing similar things, as it sounds like Lemmy has a robust set of instance settings/options.
That is a good point. Some instances have special rules and settings like that. Sounds a bit rare though. I haven't heard of many instances that put the extra effort into customizing the experience on that level
The instance matters if you post about anything political. If your instance admins don’t like your posts, they will delete your account. Mods and admins of other instances can only ban you.
To clarify, the instance only matters if that instance is, itself, inherently political (many ARE). There are many other instances which are apolitical and don’t censor posts based on political bias, unless it is especially extreme, but those are exceptions that are explained when it occurs, which is rarely.
If you’re on an instance that is widely defederated
Or one that widely defederates.
I believe mander is the only instance that has a policy of only defederating illegal content.
In contrast .world has a huge de-federation list.
I took a look at those stats a while back, and the defederation procedure totally goes both ways.
As far as I can tell, bigger instances have bumped into issues that were resolved through defederation. Smaller instances haven't faced those kinds of problems, so they haven't defederated with any instances yet.
If all the big instances have defederated your instance, that's clear sign that there might be something wrong with that place. If your instance has defederated from a bunch of other instances, take a look at the size of that instance before drawing conclusions. For example lemmy.world is a special case and a clear outlier.
Why does Lemmy.world defederate so much?
The instance you’re on doesn’t really matter very much if you never read the local feed.
Yeah, Ive been on .ml for like 5 years as of writing this and I just browse my subscribed feed. My experience has been great!
I’ve tried reading my local and federated feeds but found little value in them. Most posts are either too niche, too uninteresting or just fly straight over my head. Consequently, I prefer to stick with the subscribed feed almost exclusively. That’s where I can reliably find stuff worth my time.
No, I don't think 4 days is enough to distinguish between a user's hot take and an instance's position. I didn't focus on the local feed, so I wouldn't have known. Most of the posts I've seen have been centered on Linux and privacy.
As I keep scrolling, though, I can see some troubling posts.
OK, I apologize for my tone. I’m not here to criticize you. I am legitimately interested in helping:
All of those things you mentioned? Do all of that. Focus on your local feed, check out comments that originate from your instance. That’s how you will get a good feel for those who subscribed to your instance.
And, as others have mentioned, you can sign up to any instance and still interact, however, you are still beholden to the rules of rest of Lemmy. Follow the rules of whatever community you’re commenting or posting in, sure, but, aside from the instances that are defederated, you can interact, post, comment, vote, whatever, regardless of your home instance. It’s just that a lot of people take particular care in choosing their home instance, and they choose a home instance that sociopolitically aligns with their own views.
This is neither necessary, nor demanded from the vast majority of Lemmy users, but it is good practice. It’s just how Lemmy was designed, and if you’re not interested in doing that, fine.
Like any other online interaction forum, what really matters is the quality of your posts and or comments.
Edited: spells and grams
It's all good, I appreciate it. I've been approaching Lemmy as a reddit alternative, so I'm still learning about how to explore the fediverse. I'll review instances more critically, thank you.
Tankies.
Useful idiots of Russia and China.
I unfortunately stumbled into lemmy.ml from /c/all... Every time it's just anger and communist propaganda, which is one of the reasons I left reddit. I've completed muted the instance and my experience on Lemmy has improved significantly.
because if you aren't pro-communist, into revisionist history, and pro murdering millions to built a utopia, you are a fascist to them.
pretty much every harassing/crazy/stupid reply i get on lemmy is from .ml users too.
pro murdering millions to built a utopia
spoilers : if you're murdering millions you are not building a utopia.
The ends don't justify the means; you are not guaranteed with the ends, so sometimes you just end up with the means.
the fun part is asking them how they'd feel if someone murdered them for the utopia, and all the sudden they are not so hot on violence.
That's because most of them think they'd be running the utopia. They're just the other side of the same coin with authoritarians/fascist they just think they're gonna be in charge this time.
4 day old .ml account, asking about why .ml is bad.
Is either a troll stirring shit up as is the M.O. of a typical .ml clown, or
accidentally made their account on one of the shittiest instances in the fediverse and actually wasn’t to know what’s so bad about them.
Regardless of which, the answer is the same:
Leave .ml and you’ll be better off, or remain there and enjoy the walled garden.
.ml devs have basically made it so that new users see .ml at the top of the randomly join instances pretty much always. There was a post about it a little while back. They're manipulating the join page to get new users to join there. So I'm guessing this new user joined it because it's what they saw as an option to join the fediverse on the signup page
They unironically simp for dictatorships
You might look on MeanwhileOnGrad. Many of the posts criticize .ml specifically.
It is the oldest instance, so many people join it, even if it is no longer the most popular. People complain about the general userbase for having a noticeable pro-Russia bias, but most of the criticism I see is directed at the admins specifically. They have this same bias and aggressively censor people with it. Other admins may enforce strict rules for the instance they envision of course but .ml is also noticeably not open about this. Much of the removed content is censored with the justification of "Rule 1" or similar, but as far as I'm aware these rules don't exist or at least are hidden from everyone expected to comply with them.
Edit: Forgot to mention, some people also complain that a portion of donations towards Lemmy's development goes to paying for .ml server costs. One of them also had a controversial take on trans rights I think, but I don't remember the details. At least one of the admins is fairly active and argumentative as well. When the admins are involved in this sort of drama it reflects poorly on the instance as a whole.
How can you be pro-Russia and left-wing? Russia is definitely not a left-wing country.
It's bullshit campism for lazy thinkers
I don't have an issue with ml users in general as they are probably a diverse group, but the comms on that instance should be avoided, because of the pro authoritarian censorship.
why do .ml users get a bad rep?
3 posts up:

Because sometimes you get what you deserve. They are completely out to lunch mentally. Some of the worst have to be paid shill accounts. No one who lives in the US can really believe that garbage. Unless they are rich and have never had a job. Block and block often.
machine learning
MotherLoad
Mountain lion
I think we are one of the larger servers so we just have a more visible share than smaller instances. Our admins are pretty on top of complaints about users.
Because liberals don't like being reminded of their part in the growing state of fascism in this country. They didn't like people pointing out they are what they claim to hate. That they are as delusional about their politicians as their conservative counterparts.
Please please move to China or Russia or NK, pick one. I'll pay for your plane ticket....take some sunflower seeds with you.
It's hilarious to me that you're not even paid to be a russian mouthpiece. You're more maga than maga is...
Oligarchy polling numbers are to the lowest they've ever been, the Revolution appears to be working out quite well. The only reason that liberals hate people on the actual left is because we remind you what bad people you are and the things that you support. You always support our movements after they've gained a majority approval and fight like hell against them until then.
What that you're a russian troll?
@lemmy.world
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
That's it.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Let everyone have their own content.
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
go to feed...
@lemmy.world
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
That's it.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Let everyone have their own content.
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
go to feed...
The admins over there have some profoundly questionable views, which tends to push away reasonable people and attract bootlickers.
The problem is not the users as much as the site itself and its admins. I wish reasonable people (not bootlickers) would stop using lemmy.ml and go somewhere better. Lemmy.ml's biggest function right now is to scare away good people who would have been happy elsewhere.
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