Minnesota Fraternal Order of Police just released this

7 months ago by ByteOnBikes to c/thepoliceproblem

Right after ICE Agent Johnathan Ross executed a US citizen in cold blood

OR3X 240 points 7 months ago

The lady they shot sure didn't get any of that due process. Hypocrites.

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zeppo 206 points 7 months ago

"When citizens are accused of a crime, they are given the presumption of innocence as afforded by due process. When there is an incident involving law enforcement, politicians and activists immediately condemn those involved and are scrambling for sound bits. They do not afford them the same due process but rather convict them in a public court of opinion while an investigation is barely beginning"

Well, that's an absurd claim. Simply being arrested for a crime is often enough for the public to believe that a private citizen is guilty, and they can lose employment, business deals, a marriage or relationship long before any "due process" occurs. When police are accused of a crime, often they face no consequences at all, and if they are charged, they get the exact same due process as any other citizen.

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BussyGyatt 113 points 7 months ago

also, cops are immune to prosecution, so the court of public opinion is like, all they have

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AngryCommieKender 47 points 7 months ago

The ruling in Harlow v Fitzgerald was actually illegal according to the full text of the law as written and passed. SCOTUS was given an illegally amended copy of the law.

http://web.archive.org/...

Qualified Immunity is illegal.

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BussyGyatt 8 points 7 months ago

no that can't be true, obviously a just and honorable institution like the supreme court would have caught a mistake in the time since and corrected it. are you trying to besmirch the supreme court's honor? you know theyre the SUPREME court, right? how dare you

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Archer 1 point 7 months ago

Sorry Sque

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zeppo 8 points 7 months ago

They're not completely immune. If the action is egregious enough or unpopular enough with the public (which seems to be what they're complaining about), police can be convicted of crimes. Derek Chauvin, for example.

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cucumberbob 2 points 7 months ago

It took me way too long to realise it’s the immunity that’s qualified, not the officer.

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duckCityComplex 48 points 7 months ago

Also ironic since in this case the President and Secretary of Homeland Security immediately came out stating that the victim was a domestic terrorist and tried to murder the ICE agent with her car before any investigation was conducted, and both of which turned out to be false.

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egrets 28 points 7 months ago

Also ironic because they executed her on the spot by shooting her in the face.

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jballs 19 points 7 months ago

Yeah, I feel like that's a rather large thing to have overlooked. How the fuck do you release a statement saying citizens have a presumption of innocence when the guy literally judged and executed a citizen on the spot?

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brunchyvirus 5 points 7 months ago path: 0 21456953 21458670 21463427, hotness: undefined, score: 5, children: 0
Mist101 29 points 7 months ago

exact same due process as any other citizen treated like an innocent person and are often moved districts for a fresh start FTFY

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zeppo 2 points 7 months ago

In the "we're going to investigate ourselves" phase, yes, of course. However sometimes police are charged with crimes for their actions. Clearly far, far less often then anyone else would be prosecuted in court for the same crimes.

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curbstickle 5 points 7 months ago

When its public enough and visible enough that it can't be avoided, sure.

And then once things die down, they get pardons, or a win on appeal by a friendly judge, whatever, and back on the street in anither district. From DUIs to manslaughter and more, and fully reinstated. Some aren't as lucky and just end up with a suspended sentence and probation.

The number who actually go to prison for their crimes is miniscule.

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atomicbocks 18 points 7 months ago

I’m curious about the due process of getting shot in the face…

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stylusmobilus 1 point 7 months ago

If you live there you’ll find out first hand soon enough, I guess.

But yeah it’s a valid question.

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axexrx 11 points 7 months ago

There are also two glaring problematic assertions with that part that imo should bear removal of those involved in this statement from law enforcement:

'Citizens are afforded.... ' categorically false. All people in the USA are afforded due process, regardless of citizenship.

Becoming a politician does not lessen ones right to free speech. The very fact they have the balls to make this statement about their bosses (the state and local governments) shows an inherent insubordinatio and lack of respect for the structure from which they derive their authority: the states laws and governance.

Fire these fucks, and threaten a Regan style retaliation against any cops striking or protesting their dismissal (ie any cop protesting or striking over the decision is bamned from seeking LE employment in the state, for life)

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zeppo 1 point 7 months ago

Good point that per the constitution, it’s everyone, not just citizens. I had a discussion with a deluded conservative coworker about that recently and he couldn’t accept that’s what the constitution says.

I agree that it’s really inappropriate for them to be making these claims and discussing politics at all. Not surprising as the police union has been a problem in general for decades.

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lightnsfw 4 points 7 months ago

But people say mean things about them online :(

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kandoh 73 points 7 months ago

"Doing their jobs"

What does that job involve? Murder, surveillance, imprisonment, harassment of the community?

Yeah jeez wonder why it's such an issue

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blarth 24 points 7 months ago

Maybe their job is morally repugnant and shouldn’t exist. How about that?

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lightnsfw 64 points 7 months ago

Innocent people don't have to hide behind masks you stupid motherfuckers.

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amino -2 points 7 months ago

Luigi did and he's innocent

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lightnsfw 9 points 7 months ago

Luigi was just going about his life. Not engaging in law enforcement. Maybe I should have said "Innocent cops"

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amino 16 points 7 months ago

there are no innocent cops. the problem with cops isn't that they wear masks, it's that they wanna ban everyone else from doing the same. same with gun ownership, they want to maintain the monopoly on violence so we can't defend ourselves

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surph_ninja 60 points 7 months ago

In the war between ICE and civilians, the police have declared they’re siding with ICE. They have identified themselves as your enemy, and everyone should act accordingly.

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YellowParenti 19 points 7 months ago

Lol, my first thought was, "no one has said shit about cops on this until you opened your mouth and picked a side."

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rayyy 57 points 7 months ago

The Minnesota Fraternal Order of Police folks apparently are blind or totally corrupt because the videos show one of their own executing a citizen in broad daylight with many witnesses present. Their response is to lie like criminals.
They will be judged to be on the wrong side of history.

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amino 9 points 7 months ago

you can't call cops corrupt, that would imply that the system is broken. they're doing the job the police was always created to do, white supremacy

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TrickDacy 48 points 7 months ago

I miss the days when people admitted wrongdoing occasionally. What we have now is denial of obvious facts caught on video and millions of liars contradicting said facts and they will continue to lie about them, in perpetuity.

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jballs 14 points 7 months ago

Same. There was something in the news recently where Marjorie Taylor Green mentioned her MAGA training “to never apologize and to never admit when you’re wrong”.

I left like the media just kind of glossed over the fact that this is actual MAGA politician training. I always assumed this was their unofficial playbook, but that was the first I've ever heard of an actual training being mentioned.

So yeah, I suppose it makes sense why we never see the common sense "whoops, my bad" apology from them nowadays.

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TrickDacy 5 points 7 months ago

Doesn't surprise me. The MAGA public didn't even need the training. They were mostly already there and then just kinda picked it up naturally when they saw it modelled. Feels like they'd always wanted permission to never apologize and then they got it.

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Hux 45 points 7 months ago

Jeeze, when I watched the video it never occurred to me that the murderer and all his accomplices were the victims.

Thanks, FOP, my eyes are opened! Could you please send me any boots you need licked?

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xxce2AAb 40 points 7 months ago

Normally a group of people perverting the course of justice by covering up each other's crimes is called a criminal conspiracy. As an aside, what about female cops? Do they have their own gender-segregated old girls club or do they need a male 'sponsor' to get the same ass-coverage?

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nimble 38 points 7 months ago
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TheReturnOfPEB 34 points 7 months ago

funny how the idea of felony murder is turned upside down when the police do it

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Maeve 34 points 7 months ago

ACAB

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Cyberflunk 28 points 7 months ago
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disregardable 27 points 7 months ago

I think not murdering people would make your jobs less difficult and dangerous.

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sp3ctr4l 25 points 7 months ago

As has been said before, and will be said again:

Fuck The Police.

They exist to enrich themselves, have a powertrip as a day job, gain a higher effective class of citizenship, and to protect the property rights of the oligarchs.

Anything else they ever do is basically an accident, an incidental, occasional side effect stemming from the particular manner in which they carry out their actual purposes for existing.

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dejected_warp_core 23 points 7 months ago

I do love how these kinds of memorandums do absolutely nothing to address how everyone else feels. The complete and total "our side of the story and counterpoints are just invalid" rhetoric speaks entire libraries about values, priorities, and why things aren't going so great. Meanwhile the FOP is using this tragedy to grandstand and speak about how they feel attacked by everyone not wearing a badge, even though they weren't invited to this party. I want to say it's in poor taste, but that doesn't quite capture just how ugly a thing this is to do.

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HeadfullofSoup 22 points 7 months ago

In other news criminal gang stand with criminal gang

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Mulligrubs 22 points 7 months ago

I don't "presume innocence" when I see someone shooting someone else in the face. Kind of stupid.

It doesn't matter if a judge and jury says so or disagrees, he still shot her in the face while in absolutely no danger.

He's guilty, independent of any court ruling, it's not debatable.

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Feedback17 3 points 7 months ago

The fake cop/murdeter gets innocence presumed, but not the innocent woman he executed? Every cop should get what they deserve.

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bluesheep 21 points 7 months ago

Fraternal Order of Police

What kind of cringe ass fucking name is that?

ACAB

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Frenchgeek 6 points 7 months ago

The blue circlejerk was already taken, I suspect.

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Invertedouroboros 3 points 7 months ago

Sometimes I hate where my mind goes.

The thin bluekkake.

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OshagHennessey 1 point 7 months ago

It's the standard naming convention for all US police unions.

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AdolfSchmitler 19 points 7 months ago

Yet when immigrants are accused of being illegal they do not get the presumption of innocence. Fucking hypocrites the lot of them.

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cadekat 19 points 7 months ago

Fops, the lot of them

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tacosanonymous 17 points 7 months ago

Wow. That’s some heavy DARVO right there.

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mp3 16 points 7 months ago

When citizens are accused of a crime, they are given the presumption of innocence as afforded by due process. When there is an incident involving law enforcement, politicians and activists immediately condemn those involved and are scrambling for sound bites.

Law enforcement officers wield a significant amount of power over civilians, and should be held to a higher level of standard and scrutiny. You know, with great powers comes great responsibilities.

Maybe one reason why there is systematic condemnation when a law enforcement official is involved in a crime is because the population is increasingly mistrustful because of incompetent officers that tarnishes your profession by acting recklessly and with apparent impunity?

An important aspect of policing is to defuse and deescalate situations when possible, not make a bad situation worse. This communication does none of that. If you want to regain trust, be the better person and use this tragic event to improve, not double down.

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bearboiblake 6 points 7 months ago

You are asking fascist paramilitary goons to be the bigger person. It's not gonna work.

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A_norny_mousse 16 points 7 months ago

the fuck is a Fraternal Order of Police?

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Zombiepirate 20 points 7 months ago

A union for union busters.

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massacre 13 points 7 months ago

A union for union busting class traitors which advocates for complete immunity for it's members.

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sulgoth 10 points 7 months ago

Has cop cult vibes.

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A_norny_mousse 2 points 7 months ago

freemasonish

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sturmblast 16 points 7 months ago

Oink oink is all I see here

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TheObviousSolution 15 points 7 months ago

Gotta say, first time I've seen a police group so dedicated to driving home the ACAB messaging.

Any police organization standing behind what is clearly shown to be an abuse of authority by plainly recorded evidence should be disbanded, as they are clearly more interested in threats to their authority than why they have the authority in the first place.

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dylanmorgan 15 points 7 months ago

Cops are on the side of the cops. Don’t be fooled by copaganda where local police are pushing against the feds or the DoJ put a local police department under a consent decree. We need to be pushing to abolish the police and let these violent assholes try to get away with their bullshit when they don’t have their gang with them.

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bluGill 15 points 7 months ago

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't mean you stand by the likely guilty and defend their actions. Either you wait for proof - demanding due process - or you stay silent.

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prole 6 points 7 months ago

Sure, but you can't expect cops to understand that

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demonmariner 14 points 7 months ago

Where did this come from? I'd like to see the original and it's not on their website.

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MountainVeil 6 points 7 months ago

I found a Breitbart article and an X post from the MNFOP. Still looking for a non-nazi source, but it's legit. Fucking disgusting pigs. The facts are already out, have been since the start.

And of course, nothing about all the bald-faced lies coming from Trump or Norm. No calls of restraint to them. These fuckers make me sick.

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eatCasserole 14 points 7 months ago

Remember that time protestors burned the 3rd precinct in Minneapolis? That was fucking rad.

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modus 13 points 7 months ago

Goosestepping in solidarity.

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ThePantser 12 points 7 months ago

He deserves the exact same due process that Renee received.

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NorthoftheBorder 12 points 7 months ago

Killing and kidnapping citizens is what ACTUALLY makes law enforcement work more dangerous, and yet this letter sure sounds a lot like "stop resisting." Hmm.

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amino 11 points 7 months ago

the "court of public opinion" doesn't fucking exist. we shouldn't ignore the fact that this rhetoric is word for word what rapists say to paint themselves as the victim when their real victims inform anyone they've been raped. civilians don't have any powers to arrest cops, even if they persecution fetish their way into thinking they do. they frame the public hate of cops as an act of violence because every accusation is an admission with fascists. this should be treated as hate speech because they're implying that the freedom of speech of abolitionists should be abolished to soothe their feewees and make their klannish actions as cops go away from public view

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Hypnotoad_ 11 points 7 months ago

ACAB

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wavebeam 10 points 7 months ago
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fort_burp 10 points 7 months ago path: 0 21475177, hotness: undefined, score: 10, children: 0
Red_October 9 points 7 months ago

Pig bitch cowards whining that ICE fascists and Cops are publicly condemned for their wrongdoing while ignoring the fact that they're being condemned for sending people not convicted, or even accused, of a crime to prison camps and summarily executing people on the street. It's the sort of tone deaf pig shit that would get a writer laughed out of the room for being a hack.

The Fraternal Order of Police can fuck all the way off. Jackbooted fascists to the last. Bitching about being convicted "In the court of public opinion" while they literally murder people in cold blood and face zero real consequences just belies how fucking braindead their kind really are.

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Sanctus 9 points 7 months ago

Shit is mad tone deaf and hypocritical. Like they're not even sure what situation went down but they need to look tough.

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MagnificentSteiner 9 points 7 months ago

Of course, they are all the governments hired thugs after all.

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agent_nycto 9 points 7 months ago

If they were doing their jobs, and their jobs are "shoot people in face", then that's a job that shouldn't exist

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Pyr_Pressure 8 points 7 months ago

"The hateful and anti-law enforcement rhetoric by ...... Have made their jobs.... more dangerous and difficult"

Uh, not at all it's statements like these ones which take the side of people who are illegally kidnapping people on the streets with no due process that make it more dangerous since people get more fed up by the fact the people who are supposed to protect them are trying to murder them and lie about it.

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Smeagol666 8 points 7 months ago

Pigs gonna fucking "oink".

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Gammelfisch 8 points 7 months ago

Did this shitty letter come from the GOP HQ in fucking Moscow? If not, the Fraternal Order of Police is fucked in the head.

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bearboiblake 5 points 7 months ago

They aren't Russian, nor are they "fucked in the head", they're fascists, doing fascist stuff. ACAB.

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Etterra 7 points 7 months ago

So what they're saying is that the police are valid military targets in the war on terror? Is that it?

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Doomsider 7 points 7 months ago

Let me get this right. They are claiming ICE with a straight face!?

This has got to be a joke, who in their right mind would try to cover for ICE. This police union owes them nothing and if anything ICE is making policing more dangerous by allowing poorly trained officers to damage law enforcement reputation.

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RedAggroBest 3 points 7 months ago

Police "unions" across the country are solidly pro-trump, so of course they love the brownshirts

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Doomsider 1 point 7 months ago

Fair enough, I guess I would expect them to act logically since they have are supposed to support law and order. I am obviously wrong.

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BenLeMan 7 points 7 months ago

Shut the fuck up, Porky!

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frog_brawler 7 points 7 months ago
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BlameTheAntifa 6 points 7 months ago

Does anyone have a link? I am trying to confirm if this is real.

I can’t find any official links for this release, but it does have similarities to statements made by FOP in October.

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AntiBullyRanger 2 points 7 months ago path: 0 21460639 21463871, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
AlexanderTheDead 6 points 7 months ago

ACAB

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Amberskin 5 points 7 months ago

ACAB

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GreenBeanMachine 5 points 7 months ago
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Bosht 5 points 7 months ago

Fucking bootlickers

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slothrop 5 points 7 months ago

Serving and protecting the community!

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Feedback17 5 points 7 months ago

Do Republicans have posters of Hitler in their homes?

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Lianodel 3 points 7 months ago

I mean, they did rush to clear out Jonathan Ross's home before anyone else could get to it...

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boaratio 4 points 7 months ago

Never going to stop posting this. ACAB. Every last one.

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homesweethomeMrL 4 points 7 months ago

Shocked! Yes, shocked I am that FOP would enable and support such fascist behavior.

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Resonosity 4 points 7 months ago

Fucking ewwwwwwwww

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DeICEAmerica 4 points 7 months ago
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Windhover 4 points 7 months ago

Now please give us a donation…

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Slashme 3 points 7 months ago

Just checked the Wikipedia article about the FOP. They look like a pretty nasty bunch.

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floquant 3 points 7 months ago
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locahosr443 3 points 7 months ago

Not American.. Who is publishing this? I thought the important police guy from the area was calling it murder or near enough in the press?

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RedAggroBest 7 points 7 months ago

This is the Minnesota police union. Because cops need unions but cashiers don't. I fucking hate them so much lol

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ViceroTempus 5 points 7 months ago

Then shoot them. That's the honest to God solution right now. Our structures need to be violently torn down and rebuilt from scratch. When the government fears us, there will be liberty and justice again, and not a moment sooner.

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JoeBigelow -1 points 7 months ago

What's your ICE bag count this week? Stop advocating for people to throw their lives away if you aren't taking the same risk.

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bearboiblake 6 points 7 months ago

The more we normalize stochastic force against the police, the more likely it is to happen.

People advocate all the time for people to do violence they do not personally participate in, calling for arrests, invasions, all sorts of stuff. Why is this different?

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ViceroTempus 0 points 7 months ago

Oh but I am willing to take the same risk, I'm just not willing to do it alone. So I'm manufacturing consent so we're all on the same page. You can't expect a fire to spring up by itself, it takes fuel, a spark, and the right environment.

Though I do wonder, would your sentiment be the same if it was your family being shot like Mrs. Good? Would it still be the same if it was your children and SO being thrown into a concentration camp to be killed or trafficked to parts unknown?

path: 0 21482628 21483992 21484524 21486763 21487227, hotness: undefined, score: 0, children: 0
Ensign_Crab 2 points 7 months ago

This is the solidarity that vulnerable minorities wished they had from politicians.

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slothrop 2 points 7 months ago path: 0 21462132, hotness: undefined, score: 2, children: 0
MedicPigBabySaver 2 points 7 months ago

ACAB

MURDER!

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Feedback17 2 points 7 months ago

Cops are pieces of shit, and here is the proof.

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Furbag 2 points 7 months ago

Cops and Feds wallow in the same mud.

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A_Random_Idiot 1 point 7 months ago
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whotookkarl 1 point 7 months ago
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updn 1 point 7 months ago

“Fucking bitches”

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mrgoosmoos -3 points 7 months ago

alright let's add Minnesota to the list of states to try and economically harm

nvm this ain't a gov org

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dandelion 5 points 7 months ago

why, how does that solve the police problem?

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mrgoosmoos 0 points 7 months ago

puts pressure on state government to solve the police problem

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RedAggroBest 2 points 7 months ago

Except this is the police "union" (puts shame on the word) and not the state govt.

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mrgoosmoos 1 point 7 months ago

yeah my bad I did a quick search and thought this was a government organization, not a private one

I'll revert to my previous stance of liking Minnesotans

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dandelion 1 point 7 months ago

are fraternal organizations like this even considered a union, i.e. do they represent the workers in collective bargaining?

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thepoliceproblem
thepoliceproblem

@lemmy.world

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    The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

    99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.

    When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.

    When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."

    When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.

    Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.

    The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.

    All this is a path to a police state.

    In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.

    Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.

    That's the solution.

♦ ♦ ♦

Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.

♦ ♦ ♦

RULES

Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.

If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.

Saying cops ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.

Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.

Please also abide by the instance rules.

It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.

♦ ♦ ♦

ALLIES

!abolition@slrpnk.net

!acab@lemmygrad.ml

r/ACAB

r/BadCopNoDonut/

Randy Balko

The Civil Rights Lawyer

The Honest Courtesan

Identity Project

MirandaWarning.org

♦ ♦ ♦

INFO

A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions

Adultification

Cops aren't supposed to be smart

Don't talk to the police.

Killings by law enforcement in Canada

Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom

Killings by law enforcement in the United States

Know your rights: Filming the police

Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)

Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.

Police lie under oath, a lot

Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak

Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street

Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States

So you wanna be a cop?

When the police knock on your door

♦ ♦ ♦

ORGANIZATIONS

Black Lives Matter

Campaign Zero

Innocence Project

The Marshall Project

Movement Law Lab

NAACP

National Police Accountability Project

Say Their Names

Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration

 

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