Exactly. Presenting arguments in good faith with people who are willing to accept objective views and valid factual information can be thrilling and present opportunity to learn about your own belief systems.
In practice, though, it is such a rare occurrence that you are mostly just better off banging your head against a wall.
Who's arguing? I came in here for a disagreement!
Context for the uninitiated:
What is wrong with you, why would you come onto the internet specifically looking for a disagreement? That's so idiotic you're worse than james madison and gorson ramsay COMBINED. I hope your favorite pants turn green
Not really. I can enjoy a debate, IF the other person is doing so in good faith. Challenging, enlightening discussions are always welcome!
Generally speaking, if one of us can’t “agree to disagree” and happily change the subject, then it won’t be a good time.
I disagree to agree to your point. /S
I used to, when I used to believe people could change their minds in response to a good argument. Now that I realise no one ever changes their mind because of an argument, I no longer enjoy it. Now I mostly see it as a self reinforcing public display of affiliation
I'd say it is very unlikely someone will change their mind because of an argument. But it is likely that someone will change their mind after several arguments, and some reflection. It may take years. This person may not see things the same way you do once they change, but they may change some of their views.
People do change their mind over time, but not from repeated exposure to arguments. That tends to have the opposite effect, and causes people to consolidate and solidify their position.
What gets them to change the opinion is varied, but it's rarely "lots of arguments"
I'm not saying someone changes solely because of lots of arguments. Or repeated exposure, which I agree, are more likely to cement a position if they are essentially the same argument over and over. But arguments in general add to whatever experiences eventually change someone's mind. Just another factor.
Fair, but I would put it under the umbrella of "social pushback". When someone gets enough signalling from the people around them, either at large, or just in their communities and sub communities, they can shift from their opinions. But I don't think arguing holds a special power there. Just telling someone their opinion is harmful and you don't want to hear it has the same effect in the long term
I think you might be right.
Arguments are fun when they're just civilized disagreements about inconsequential things. Like, architectural decisions at work are always interesting cause you may learn a thing or two and it doesn't matter if you don't convince others, it's not your product. Actual heated arguments, I tend to stay away from.
I really don't. No-one argues to convince anyone, just to state their own opinions louder.
You know what? You're right.
I totally disagree! /s
You know what? You're right.
When I can argue with someone rational who is willing to change their mind or has a reason for disagreeing with my or the foundations of my argument such that they can explain where I’ve made a mistake, I like arguing.
It’s even fun when you argue with rational people about irrational things for the fun of just pushing the limits of understanding. Like trying to debate ontological nihilism purely for the pain of trying to understand it.
However, I do not like arguing with people who are irrational, because there’s no point, and I know it, but I really feel like maybe if I just said something right they’d start believing in evidence.
It is also just very difficult to explain certain things to people who don’t understand the foundations of your reasoning.
There’s a saying that to a mathematician there are only two kinds of problems: impossible and trivial. When you’ve thought a lot about something, many foundational concepts seem trivial to you but not to outsiders. It’s very difficult to branch this gap in knowledge.
For example I had an argument about how the undecidability of the busy beaver numbers seem to disprove solipsism because something had to do the work to find them but it wasn’t me, so something other than me must exist for those few numbers we’ve calculated so far to be at my fingertips.
This argument means nothing to people who don’t know what undecidability means, and it is incredibly difficult (for me at least) to try and defend that proving something is “undecidable” in the first place is even possible to someone who’s never seen/done a formal math proof.
I used to. I'm an old school troll. I enjoy messing with people and teasing. If I can make things difficult or awkward for someone, then get both of us to laugh about it, I'm in heaven. But over the last couple of decades people take themselves more seriously or something and its harder to get people to be silly or appreciate the absurd. People don't enjoy it any more so I stopped doing it. I don't want to get people actually mad, or have them be truly upset. But yeah, I'd argue just about anything to get someone going. I'd get more and more outrageous till they finally twigged what I was doing. Then I'd do the same thing to the next person but take a different stance. Usually the first person would join in and it would just snowball.
As in debate? I used to but I have less patience for it now. Its possible because I did so much of it I tire of rehashing things with folks who have not as thoroughly gone through the many things. I still am a little obsessed with the idea of truth though.
No, I hate it. I find conflict repulsing. I wish people agreed on everything. But we don't live in a perfect world, so I still argue.
Typically, no. Not in person and not online. However, winning an argument - in particular one that brings fairness or justice as a consequence - feels very rewarding. But I still don't enjoy the actual arguing part.
Discussing different points of view though, I don't always consider this arguing. As long as it remains an exchange, it is pleasant. If I have to attack and defend something personal, then no.
No but I do enjoy having conversations about topics I disagree with someone on. When things turn hostile, which I do associate with an argument, it's just not worth it.
I hate arguing and I will fight you on that one! ;)
No, I enjoy respectful discussion and learning. There is a huge difference. When you get to the raised voices, snide remarks, and it feels like your hair is on fire the whole time it's arguing.
I lived with a woman who loved to constantly bicker and argue, sometimes to the point where there were screaming matches over stupid stuff. You didn't dare defy her. She was in a family that constantly fought and argued over pretty things. I was stuck with it and arguing with her boyfriends who 80 percent of the time were not all that bright. I hated arguing by the time I was in school.
That was my mother. When I finally left I could eat a meal and be sick, vomiting a green slime because of the constant fighting and crap. My son a few months prior had passed away at 9 days old, we had been homeless because of her decisions to not pay things, and her latest winner of a boyfriend kept picking fights with me because I was younger so obviously I knew nothing and he knew it all.
This man screwed up so many things because he could do it all. He did a brake job on a car and had to treat it apart again because he messed something else up. Not to mention he didn't torque the lug nuts. My mother's previous boyfriend would hand me a part and tell me, "the pickup needs tree water pump replaced, go do it." When I had never done one in my life without telling me how pre internet and had no problem. From around 9 to i was 18 that guy who was a former biker, maybe draftee, and spent 15 years in maximum security prison for beating the crap of of his ex and her new man then taking a TV and slamming it on the man's head nearly killing them both so also seemed to hate my guts.
I finally left not long after she got drunk and pissed off at me for something and told me how her life had been ruined because she had me.
I can't stand fighting and arguing. I can't stand taking on the phone either, my mother loved yelling and slamming them too she had the 50 foot cord and loved the cordless ones.
The only time I had fun with arguing was in WoW... have some public fight and be breezing through, then stir the pot and leave. Come back hours later and they were still at it. My favorite was for the grammar nazi's, a simple, "There, their, they're... it'll be ok." Was my favorite.
Only against people who are wrong.
In rare circumstances yes. Usually no.
If the argument is based solely on arguing for one's position in the name of exploring a topic, then it can be interesting provided that the other party is arguing in good faith about something neither of us are very invested in.
This would be more akin to recreational debate where ones position doesn't really matter, and where one doesn't lose anything by being in the wrong.
However, most real life arguments involve emotions and a position of personal pride. Once an argument on a topic can be interpreted as an attack/defense on ones own opinions it gets infinitely worse.
For as long as the topic is interesting and the other person is being civil about it and is actually arguing against what I'm saying and not just what they think I'm saying.
I loved arguing and being just overall mean and negative and a cunt to people on Reddit who posted really absolute complete garbage sludge, like parroting the same tired Le Epic phrases that were already posted 20 times in the comment section before they squeezed the rubbish bin juice out of their half-a-brain cell enough to comment “pLaY StUpiD GamEs, Win…” and when they’d get mad at me for being mean I’d always have a great time.
I can’t really do that here. It’s nice. I don’t really see completely horrible dumb garbage here very often. It’s very refreshing. So I don’t really feel the need to be a cunt anymore. As much.
Also sorry for the insane run-on sentence there, but it fits how I wanted to express it from my brain hole.
Depends way too much what we are talking about or how their arguments are made to say either way.
Yes, a lot, it's my favorite hobby. I like trying to make good arguments, appreciating when other people make good arguments, and pointing out bad arguments. Topic doesn't matter too much, though maybe free speech is the one I get most heated about, especially the idea that arguments are worthless and should be suppressed.
thanks for using Leebra!
go to feed...
Hypothetically, yes. Practically, no. Arguing is fun and engaging when you have a sparring partner who is sharp, engaged, and persuadable. If changing someone’s mind isn’t on the table, or if all you’re capable of doing is poorly repeating memes and headlines you’ve seen, I’m not interested.
save