It also makes it impossible for a show to get later word of mouth bumps. Nobody sees it, new users don't even know it exists, and so it has no metrics and no future whatsoever.
Trek Central reporting that Star Trek Prodigy has been cancelled and will be removed from Paramount+ in coming days.
3 years ago by Coliver to c/startrek
CeruleanRuin 21 points 3 years ago
briongloid 11 points 3 years ago
That's how Star Trek succeeded after The Original Series, but now there is no physical media comparable to streaming.
You would think that the content would still be licensed by another streamer like Tubi etc, but then they have to factor their property only being available on a competitor.
It's never been a better time to selfhost.
interolivary 15 points 3 years ago
Don't streaming platforms remove canceled shows so they don't have to pay residuals to actors (or whoever is contractually getting them)? I've understood that streaming residuals are pretty shit to begin with
CeruleanRuin 13 points 3 years ago
Yep. It's corporate greed, plain and simple, and it's disgusting.
VentraSqwal 7 points 3 years ago
Sometimes. Other times it's a tax write-off apparently.
interolivary 7 points 3 years ago
Or – probably – a tax write-off and a way to dodge residuals
CIWS-30 20 points 3 years ago
Yep. I used to think that I didn't need to download and back up stuff because "I just need to pop on over to Youtube or something and it'll be there!" only to find out the hard way that people delist and take down stuff from places all the time, including major corporations.
I wish I'd downloaded and backed up some of my favorite stuff back in the day. Whether it's videos, music, games... it's surprising how much crap gets taken down. I never thought that people who insisted on having physical copies were weird (unlike some others) but now I realize even more nowadays that they were right. Especially if they use those physical copies to make their own digital backups.
StillPaisleyCat 15 points 3 years ago
The back half of Prodigy season one hasn’t even been released to DVD, just the first 10 episodes.
CeruleanRuin 50 points 3 years ago
Canceling it is one thing. Pulling the show down from the service is absolutely abhorrent behavior.
aufsichtsrat 6 points 3 years ago
Fully agree. There is absolutely no reason to do so!
ValueSubtracted 47 points 3 years ago
Confirmed by Deadline, with some added details:
The new season will complete post-production, and the studio will be looking for a new home for Star Trek: Prodigy as season one comes off the service shortly.
The company said that “continues to be invested in growing the Star Trek franchise” with series including Star Trek: Starfleet Academy, movie event Star Trek: Section 31, Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, which returned for its second season June 15 and has been renewed for a third season, animated series Star Trek: Lower Decks, which will return for its fourth season later this year and has also been renewed for a fifth season, the upcoming final season of Star Trek: Discovery as well as Star Trek: Picard.
Update from series writer Aaron J. Waltke:
Obviously, there is not much I can say. Everyone on the cast and crew loves #StarTrekProdigy deeply.
I have noticed some misleading headlines, so all I can do is point to this particular part of the press release.
We are completing season two on schedule and seeking a new home!
Variety's report contains this:
According to an individual with knowledge of the situation, although the show had aired on Nickelodeon in addition to Paramount+, it will not be returning to Nickelodeon either. Those on the show will complete post-production on Season 2 and then CBS Studios will be free to shop it to other outlets.
Nmyownworld 68 points 3 years ago
For goodness sake. Paramount+ just gained "The spot for all Star Trek films and series" earlier this month. Now, they have to put an asterisk on that statement, "*except Prodigy."
thegdthadman 31 points 3 years ago
@Nmyownworld @ValueSubtracted What I struggle to understand is how they don't immediately see how this will only undermine subscriber confidence
ValueSubtracted 24 points 3 years ago
It's the hot new trend - Warner and Disney have each done the same thing.
StillPaisleyCat 6 points 3 years ago
So depressing.
Especially when Paramount+ has very little in the animated originals category.
More, Paramount has been trying to cover all of the demographics with their consolidated streamer. Compared to most of the others, excepting Disney, they have a decent amount of kids’ content and viewership. So, how shortsighted do they have to be to cut off their one major franchise offering for that demographic?
ISometimesAdmin 14 points 3 years ago
@triktrek Same reason HBO removed Westworld... Saving on residuals. All about that bottom line, amirite? 🙄
interolivary 16 points 3 years ago
Ah so it is just about residuals, I was just speculating on another comment that that might be the reason.
This fucking sociopathic cutthroat capitalism where literally nothing matters except squeezing more money out of everyone is getting real damn old
Lyon_Wonder 8 points 3 years ago
And one of the main reasons for the writers going on strike.
dan 10 points 3 years ago
If there's really low viewership, it can cost more to keep it on the platform, as they still have to pay some royalties and stuff for it being there.
Same reason that Disney is pulling lots of shows from Disney+ and Hulu right now.
It sucks a lot for those of us who really like it.
BobKerman3999 29 points 3 years ago path: 0 481249 481278, hotness: undefined, score: 29, children: 6
JWBananas 14 points 3 years ago
This. It's the new trend in streaming: Get better ROI for funding new content instead of paying residuals on your back catalog. The market is heading in a direction where subscribers won't just stick around forever if you're not constantly feeding them something new. So it makes more sense to put the money there instead.
"Max" has already dropped a lot of original content for this exact reason. And you can expect to continue seeing this trend across the streaming industry.
Remember the ongoing writers' strike? The pittance that they get paid in residuals from streaming is one of their main complaints. So you can expect the practice to accelerate after the strike is over.
The content will be shopped around to other platforms. You can probably expect some of it to end up on freemium/advertisement-based streaming services. The rest will just go into the proverbial vault.
Continuumguy 12 points 3 years ago
The content will be shopped around to other platforms. You can probably expect some of it to end up on freemium/advertisement-based streaming services. The rest will just go into the proverbial vault.
What's weird is that Paramount HAS perhaps the best Freemium service: Pluto TV. One has to wonder if perhaps that is where Prodigy will end up (it may seem strange for a company to totally remove it from one streaming platform and move it to another that they also own, but the legalities of streaming rights are WEIRD. For example, some of the Looney Tunes shorts were removed from Max but can still be found on other WB/Discovery platforms, like their YouTube channel and the Boomerang streaming service- ultimately it was just an accounting trick)
BananaTrifleViolin 7 points 3 years ago
Yeah this seems likely; they've supposedly cancelled the show as part of a content write-down (a bit like Discovery-Warner did, dumping shows, writing them off in their financial statments and not broadcasting them). It sounds like the shows makers have the rights to shop it around, and given season 2 is nearly complete it'll probably end up somewhere. Seems doubtful there would be a season 3 though.
UESPA_Sputnik 2 points 3 years ago
Can someone please ELI5 this? If it's streamed on another service (which apparently it will), then wouldn't the creators have to be paid too? How does this all relate?
CeruleanRuin 2 points 3 years ago
You'd think removing it would come after finding a new distributor, but I guess they don't want to give any possible advantage to a competitor.
This anti-competitive crap is rotting the whole industry.
stormageddon 0 points 3 years ago
Tax write-off seems to be the going theory.
Newby 11 points 3 years ago
I try to support the content I love. Not commenting on others actions but I do not sail the high seas. But I do think that modern content ownership is grey and we are going to be getting into issues where content is not available anywhere legally.
snickerbockers 8 points 3 years ago
It almost seems like Paramount's execs want you to pirate their content. The other thing that frustrates me that they've been doing is sending PC users extremely low-quality streams just to spite anybody who payed to view their content instead of torrenting it. I guess the line of thought is that this will make it harder for pirates to capture HD-quality streams, but that's not stopping them so all it does is make it so that the pirates are the only ones who can watch it in HD on a PC.
Not sure if they fixed this but there was also a problem with episodes randomly missing back in the CBS All-Access days. I especially remember Menagerie and Cage were mysteriously gone when they released that episode of Discovery where they revisit Talos IV.
I'm rambling but my point is that CBS/Paramount's stupid myopic decisions only drive people to torrent sites because the version that you download is a far superior product to what they're streaming.
Rentlar 8 points 3 years ago
Supporting content is noble and I do commend you for your intentions.
Yet, I can't shake the feeling that supporting streaming services is more of an encouragement for the companies to wave cool creations in front of you then immediately snatch it away again.
Newby 5 points 3 years ago
You can support it by buying physical or digital copies as well.
By the same token you can not support business practices. When my term is up I will cancel p+ and just buy the shows i want to watch instead.
candyman337 1 point 3 years ago path: 0 507651 508400 511197 515610, hotness: undefined, score: 1, children: 0
Nmyownworld 23 points 3 years ago
I'm very surprised. I thought Prodigy had a strong following. What a strange situation, quickly pulling season one. But I don't understand the ins and outs of streaming contracts.
CeruleanRuin 3 points 3 years ago
Possibly that Paramount+ simply doesn't have the kids' content to support viewership for a single show. Sure, it pulls in Trek fans, but probably isn't grabbing the 4-12 demographic it's aimed at or whatever.
kargarocP4 19 points 3 years ago
code for "Prodigy is about to become super hot on pirate sites"
snickerbockers 15 points 3 years ago
ugh, this destroys a lot of the appeal of Paramount+ for me. the only reason i have a subscription is that it's the one-stop-shop for all things star trek, but i guess not anymore.
They're also really boosting the appeal of piracy (not that i would ever recommend somebody reading this post commit piracy) because that's the only way to reliably enjoy the things you would otherwise be paying to rent.
TheLazurus 14 points 3 years ago
Boooo! I quite enjoyed Prodigy, and I really hope it finds a new home.
Madison_rogue 8 points 3 years ago
They don't have to pay residuals if they pull the content. This is one of the main issues that caused the current writer's strike.
varda 14 points 3 years ago
I'm bummed. I found the first few episodes of Prodigy rocky but it wound up being a solid first season in a franchise where a rocky first season is the norm.
I don't have kids but if I ever did I could see myself wanting to watch Prodigy with them. I hope another studio picks it back up.
Navi 10 points 3 years ago
Oh man that really sucks. I really enjoyed prodigy, it was doing something different (but good different!).
Had been looking forward to watching it with my son when he was sold enough… I really hope they find a new home so we get more than just one season.
StillPaisleyCat 12 points 3 years ago
You should watch it before it’s pulled. Only the first 10 episodes are available on physical media.
At 20 x 22 minutes, it’s not a lot of time, but we’ll worth it.
YoBuckStopsHere 5 points 3 years ago
I saw the trailer and figured it was a kids show and never watched.
flamingmongoose 8 points 3 years ago
It absolutely is a kid's show but once you get past the first few episodes and ESPECIALLY the second half of the season, it's utterly Star Trek and pulls off a better season arc than any of the other modern Treks. ^Plus Janeway jokes about turning into a salamander.^
CeruleanRuin 6 points 3 years ago
It is a kids' show, but surprisingly deep and thoughtful for one. Characters are well realized and the plotting is tight. Plus it's absolutely gorgeous to look at.
I'm exposed to a lot of kids' media by virtue of, you know, having kids, and this show is top shelf. And my young kids actually liked it and would sit down to watch it, which is something they wouldn't do with other Trek.
RoagisMaximus 3 points 3 years ago
It is targeted at kids, that's why I never checked it out either.
exscape 3 points 3 years ago
Including Picard season 3? 1+2 and 3 are so different that I think it's almost unfair to even lump them together.
(On IMDb, the worst-rated episodes of S3 are about tied with the best of S1+2.)
Stanley_Pain 2 points 3 years ago
Usenet and Yorrentst 😎
CNash85 18 points 3 years ago
Sort of - the mystery of what happened to Chakotay is unresolved, but the crew got a more-or-less happy ending. From how it's being reported, season 2 is all but complete and they just need to find a new network or service to show it - I'd wager Prime Video might be a possible home for it as they've historically had distibution rights for the various other modern Trek shows internationally.
CeruleanRuin 6 points 3 years ago
This gives some hope at least. This show is better than it had any right to be and deserves a proper ending.
rob_t_firefly 2 points 3 years ago
That's what's bizarre about this. Paramount made the show, the next season actually exists in produced form, and they are just going to... not put it on their own service which they control? Like, "according to ourselves this show produced by ourselves which has been bought and paid for and is basically free for us to put on our own service and which we know people want to see isn't something we're interested to show."
I don't even like Prodigy and I'm dumbfounded by this move.
FormerGameDev 7 points 3 years ago
Blah. I hate this.
sentient_loom 6 points 3 years ago
This is the first I've heard about Star Trek Prodigy
StillPaisleyCat 2 points 3 years ago
The promotion hasn’t been what it could and the merchandising came very, very late.
ryan 6 points 3 years ago
Wow, this sucks. I didn't get around to finishing season one yet but really enjoyed what I have seen so far. It's refreshing to see Star Trek deviate and try something new, and I felt like Prodigy was really hitting the mark there.
I hope season two finds a home quickly and we're not stuck waiting forever.
StillPaisleyCat 3 points 3 years ago
The lack of completions were one of the things that hurt the show.
candyman337 5 points 3 years ago
it's already a thing for several shows. The worst off are game shows that aren't as popular. or series that only had a couple of seasons. Capitalism and it's continuous churn of removing and adding new is going to put us in a new dark ages.
It's happening with everything. A friend of mine got a bike secondhand that only came with a digital manual. He didn't get the manual when he got his bike, so he had to go on the site to get it. Except the site had deleted the page his big was on, and the manual for it. It wasn't on the way back machine either. Luckily he found a similar model ok the way back machine but this is going to continue to happen.
So many things are going to be lost because they aren't printed and then they're deleted and no one is backing them up. All those news papers from local towns that we're using to piece together certain events in history just won't exist in 50 to 70 years because they were 100% digital and are now gone.
It's really upsetting and no one is doing anything about it. At least not at every level, sure there are efforts, but not in every small town.
jdc_nm 13 points 3 years ago
In many cases like this they end up selling rights to one of the growing ad-supported streaming services, which means I personally will never watch. I had just started watching Prodigy in the gap between Picard and SNW. I think companies are being shortsighted in cutting back their catalogs in this way since it encourages people like me to cancel subscriptions between the initial broadcast of new seasons of the more popular series rather than stick around for something of perhaps secondary interest.
StillPaisleyCat 1 point 3 years ago
The only streamer that’s more kid-friendly is Disney+. Netflix is trying hard to boost its original kids content through.
chronicledmonocle 3 points 3 years ago
Was it that poorly received? I thought it was great for a kid show.
marlowe 4 points 3 years ago
path: 0 527668 531596, hotness: undefined, score: 4, children: 1
It was a great kid's show AND great star trek.
It was well received.
there is no good reason for doing this.
kethinov -1 points 3 years ago
Exactly, Prodigy was a surprise gem and is at the bottom of the list of current Star Trek shows that should've been canceled.
- Discovery is an awful, manic, canon-wrecking mess and needs to go.
- Strange New Worlds inherits most of that awfulness, is incredibly overrated, and also needs to go.
- Picard was shaky but the final season finally delivered, thank the gods.
- Lower Decks is well-written, nuanced, a good citizen of canon, and just wonderful.
- Prodigy is well-written, nuanced, a good citizen of canon, and just wonderful.
But the popular narrative is all over the place. People hate Discovery but love Strange New Worlds despite them being almost identical. People love Lower Decks and are tepid about Prodigy despite them having a very similar tone.
At least most people seem to agree on Picard now.
StillPaisleyCat 1 point 3 years ago
Nickelodeon didn’t get as much linear audience as they’d hoped, but Nickelodeon is doing poorly overall since 2020.
On Paramount+, it was popular but didn’t have as high a completion stat as it should.
Too many fans watched and episode or two and then bailed because it starts out looking more like other franchises that kids and families unfamiliar with Star Trek would find initially appealing. Within a very few episodes it really brings you into a very Star Trek experience, but too large a proportion of viewers didn’t give it the chance it deserves.
Also, Paramount’s promotion and timing of merchandise releases was incredibly weak. The algorithm didn’t promote the show to kids. The toys came out a year after the show premiered. The full year break between short seasons lost audience etc.
ProfessionalHandJob 3 points 3 years ago
removing it completely is a bit extreme
Hypersapien 5 points 3 years ago
They ended up removing it earlier than they planned because so many people were rushing to watch it before it was removed.
ProfessionalHandJob 1 point 3 years ago
lmaooooo
StillPaisleyCat 1 point 3 years ago
I guess they were concerned about all the views reducing the value of the tax write-off.
So, instead of SNW in the top of the Nielsen streaming numbers for this week (as they surely hoped), in a month from now we’ll see the figures for this week with Prodigy in the Nielsen top ten like 1923 and Picard.
I wonder what investors and the IRS will make of that…
bobs_monkey 2 points 3 years ago
I wonder what investors and the IRS will make of that…
A whole big bag of nothing, it's CBS. Investors on the other hand, dunno.
Arcticfunky 6 points 3 years ago
You're on a star trek only website and haven't heard of prodigy?
astroturds 2 points 3 years ago
Awww nooo! Not murf! I loved that little dude.
This is a shame, but maybe it means more money available to make star trek legacy? Also Kate Mulgrew is now free and can play a part in that series. Probably wishful thinking.
StarManta 2 points 3 years ago
My kid is not quite old enough to enjoy a show like Prodigy (he’s 1, lol). I was waiting until he aged into it and watch it with him.
I guess Paramount…. doesn’t want to indoctrinate children as trekkies, then?
felixxx999 1 point 3 years ago
Itunes has all of S1 for 9.99 today. I'm buying in support of the show.
fishbulb95 1 point 3 years ago
This is disappointing, I very much enjoyed the series. A unique series different from all the traditional ST shows. Those classic starfleet morals and ethics, told in an intelligent way for a younger audience. However, there are references that long time fans would notice and enjoy. I feel bad for all the people who worked on it. The cast seemed very excited in interviews for the second season.
Edit: They better not touch Lower Decks.
YoBuckStopsHere 1 point 3 years ago
Arrr matey, time to sail the seven seas in search of lost booty!
stormageddon 1 point 3 years ago
This sucks, my kids love this show so much. I was excited to see where they would go with it, too.
klieg2323 -2 points 3 years ago
Wasn't exactly my favorite in season 1. Was kinda excited to see where season 2 went but I'm not really too upset.
What I'm hoping this does is clear the way for a Legacy spinoff Matalas teased with the Picard finale
StillPaisleyCat 14 points 3 years ago
That didn’t work for the fans who cheered when TAS got canceled in the early 70s.
Hoping the cancellation of one Trek show will get you the one you personally want is never great thing for the health of the franchise.
klieg2323 -7 points 3 years ago
Nah. Right now they need to cull the weak shows so the strong can survive. Not saying it's great what they're doing, but Prodigy and Discovery are definitely the weak shows of the current gen. Focus the franchise on what works, and allow room for good ideas to flourish instead of strangling them in the cradle because a lesser show is hogging resources.
Paramount is in a tough spot financially and if they need to cancel the underperformers so good Trek can survive, I'm ok.
Also, just saying, if TAS wasn't cancelled we might not have gotten TNG. Not sure your example is working in your favor.
StillPaisleyCat 7 points 3 years ago
There was more than a decade between TAS’ cancellation and TNG.
Lyon_Wonder 1 point 3 years ago
With the planned Phase II series that's a follow-on to TOS and TAS becoming TMP.
klieg2323 -5 points 3 years ago
And there was more than a decade between Enterprise and Discovery. Not quite sure your point, but these things are how a series evolves.
Not to mention, the star trek franchise is in an entirely different state now that it was in either of those periods. Comparing this to either of those is really like comparing fresh apples to replicated ration packs
USSBurritoTruck 5 points 3 years ago
Nah. Right now they need to cull the weak shows so the strong can survive.
This is not how things get made. If Trek shows are not finding the audience they need to justify how costly they are to make, than they're simply going to stop producing new Trek shows until some years down the road when a new producer with enough clout wants to revive a familiar property.
Prodigy and Discovery are definitely the weak shows of the current gen.
Without the initial popularity of Disco, we wouldn't have gotten any new Trek past season one.
And let's be honest about it, without the weight of nostalgia for TNG tipping the scale in its favour, "Star Trek: Legacy" is likely not going to do gangbusters. Lest we forget that Terry Matalas was also in charge of season two of PIC. No one is ever going to be able to convince me that they're really excited about the ongoing adventures of the Titan Enterprise G and ensign Terry Sue.
klieg2323 -3 points 3 years ago
This is not how things get made. If Trek shows are not finding the audience they need to justify how costly they are to make, than they’re simply going to stop producing new Trek shows until some years down the road when a new producer with enough clout wants to revive a familiar property.
You do realize that different shows in the franchise are currently trying to fill different niches and appeal to different audiences, right? Prodigy is far from appealing to the traditional trekkie. It's primarily targeted to young adults and children via Nickelodeon branding. The characters were largely insufferable at the beginning. Yes to show character growth, but this likely also turned people off
Just because one niche show in the franchise wasn't super successful or was too expensive to make does not mean the current generation of development is doomed.
This writers strike has caused production calculus to change. That's likely what started talks at Paramount leading to the current decision amplified by their current financial status.
And just because you didn't like the ending PIC doesn't meant it wasn't immensely enjoyed by others. I would love to see the next next generation on the enterprise G with all the cheese it might entail. I absolutely would eat that series up! Don't worry, I don't need you to be convinced for me to enjoy it 😊
Lyon_Wonder 1 point 3 years ago
The same reasoning with TAS also applies to Phase II and we might not have got TNG had Paramount not decided to turn it into TMP.
startrek
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r/startrek: The Next Generation
Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...
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Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 09-03 | SNW 4x07 | “Like Chronitons Through the Hourglass” |
| 09-10 | SNW 4x08 | “Orders of Magnitude” |
| 09-17 | SNW 4x09 | "Once La’An a Time" |
| 09-24 | SNW 4x10 | "Tomorrow's Enterprise" |
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startrek
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15433
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r/startrek: The Next Generation
Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...
Maybe a little slash fic.
Rules
1 Be constructive
All posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.
2 Be welcoming
It is important that everyone from newbies to OG Trekkers feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.
3 Be truthful
All posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.
4 Be nice
If a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.
5 Spoilers
Utilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episode. There is no formal spoiler protection for episodes/films after they have been available for approximately one week.
6 Keep on-topic
All submissions must be directly about the Star Trek franchise (the shows, movies, books, etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/Quarks.
7 Meta
Questions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.
Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 09-03 | SNW 4x07 | “Like Chronitons Through the Hourglass” |
| 09-10 | SNW 4x08 | “Orders of Magnitude” |
| 09-17 | SNW 4x09 | "Once La’An a Time" |
| 09-24 | SNW 4x10 | "Tomorrow's Enterprise" |
| 03-?? | SFA 2x01 | TBA |
Wondering where to stream a series? Check here.
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The removal from the service thing is the most absurd part of these announcements, that was the benefit of VOD, that we could access what we wanted.
Shows have gotten cancelled when they are popular and on a cliff-hanger throughout the last 60 years, but the removal thing is new and a massive decline from the accessibility improvements that were made over the last 15 years.
Fortunately for me, my personal server doesn't have this issue.
save